Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message news:op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan...
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
I am sure there was one used in a willy wonka film.
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen.
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's.
There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Easy to find :
https://www.wayfair.ca/outdoor/pdp/la-crosse-technology-14-round-dial-thermometer-lct10071.html
ps : you didn't specify what kind of "meter" ... ;-)
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:01:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen.
Doesn't look so good.
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's.
There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
I was in school in the 80s, and we had massive ones, looked like some
kind of old fashioned weighscale from a fair. Very useful for the whole class to see the volts and amps in a circuit under demonstration.
On 14/04/2022 12:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:01:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen.
Doesn't look so good.
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's.
There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
I was in school in the 80s, and we had massive ones, looked like some
kind of old fashioned weighscale from a fair. Very useful for the whole
class to see the volts and amps in a circuit under demonstration.
Make one yourself then. This is uk.d-i-y the clue is in the name!
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
In article <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
get a smaller one and a video camera.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters now.
On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:04:03 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:59:48 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:01:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:Doesn't look so good.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >> >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen. >> >>
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's. >> >>> There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
I was in school in the 80s, and we had massive ones, looked like some
kind of old fashioned weighscale from a fair. Very useful for the whole >> >> class to see the volts and amps in a circuit under demonstration.
Make one yourself then. This is uk.d-i-y the clue is in the name!
Buy a few old ones on Ebay and pass them around. Depending on your budget, of course.
It might be good for people to see the contrast in design.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:28:19 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:12:14 +0100, <hubops@ccanoemail.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Easy to find :
https://www.wayfair.ca/outdoor/pdp/la-crosse-technology-14-round-dial-thermometer-lct10071.html
ps : you didn't specify what kind of "meter" ... ;-)
Oops. Volts/amps please.
Some vintage ones in a few of these pics :
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/g20681640/control-rooms/
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Big screen TV with an analogue representation of a digital reading
performed in software.
On 14/04/2022 12:24, alan_m wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:Stepper motor and a counterbalanced pointer, and some drive electronics
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Big screen TV with an analogue representation of a digital reading
performed in software.
and some software.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 14:22:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:24, alan_m wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:Stepper motor and a counterbalanced pointer, and some drive
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Big screen TV with an analogue representation of a digital reading
performed in software.
electronics and some software.
But they used to make them as just a normal meter, just a bigger
pointer and coil.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous
voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter
with a long lightweight pointer.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
<op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor? Or just draw it digitally on a
monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters
now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous
voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter
with a long lightweight pointer.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:59:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:01:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:Doesn't look so good.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen. >>>
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's. >>>> There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
I was in school in the 80s, and we had massive ones, looked like some
kind of old fashioned weighscale from a fair. Very useful for the whole >>> class to see the volts and amps in a circuit under demonstration.
Make one yourself then. This is uk.d-i-y the clue is in the name!
Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen.
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's.
There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
On 04/14/2022 05:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous
voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter
with a long lightweight pointer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aanenajtc1U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta7nlkI5K5g
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters
now.
It just isn't the same.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Go away, fuckhead. You are worse than any of the trolls.
As a troll's troll, you ain't all that bright, dumbfuck.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters
now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter with a long lightweight pointer.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
Still no use for me.
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You ARE just another troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE who INSISTS on
his "right" to feed the dumbest, best-known, clinically insane
troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself! It's part
of your SENILITY! <BG>
You inane posts "calling them out" Is FAR MORE LAME, YOU STUPID
FUCKING TROLL BY PROXY.
You could not be more stupid if you tried, putz!
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:43:16 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org, the absolutely brain
dead, troll-feeding senile asshole, babbled again:
Go away, fuckhead. You are worse than any of the trolls.
As a troll's troll, you ain't all that bright, dumbfuck.
You ARE just another troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE who INSISTS on
his "right" to feed the dumbest, best-known, clinically insane
troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself! It's part
of your SENILITY! <BG>
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
get a smaller one and a video camera.
It just isn't the same.
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:28:20 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
Don't buy that either. And even if it was true, much more of a nuisance having to do it most days instead of once a week or so.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:28:20 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
Don't buy that either. And even if it was true, much more of a nuisance having to do it most days instead of once a week or so.
On 4/14/2022 6:19 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:28:20 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery
life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
Don't buy that either. And even if it was true, much more of a nuisance
having to do it most days instead of once a week or so.
New models have a range comparable to a gas car, 350 to 400 miles.
Yeah, takes 30 seconds to plug in twice a week.
Still faster than stopping at a gas station.
Rather than dwell on the negatives,
educate yourself
and you will find many have been overcome
or will be soon.
If I had need for two cars, one would be an EV today.
Even now, it is good for 90% of my needs.
On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 4:31:35 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:Ah, had not thought about the counter weight, I suggested a higher
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:Not so simple if you want accuracy. For one thing, the pointer ought to be counterweighted, not
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter with a long lightweight pointer.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
just lightweight. For another, the glass pane that protects the pointer must be grounded,
or electrostatic charge will disrupt the reading. A d'Arsonval movement is hard to scale up
and keep rugged; taut-band and such are improvements, but... servo is what's easily available for
a DIY project.
Not so simple if you want accuracy. For one thing, the pointer ought to be counterweighted, not
just lightweight. For another, the glass pane that protects the pointer must be grounded,
or electrostatic charge will disrupt the reading. A d'Arsonval movement is hard to scale up
and keep rugged; taut-band and such are improvements, but... servo is what's easily available for
a DIY project.
Ah, had not thought about the counter weight,
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:02:15 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org, an ESPECIALLY retarded, troll-feeding, senile ASSHOLE, blathered, yet again:
You ARE just another troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE who INSISTS on
his "right" to feed the dumbest, best-known, clinically insane
troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself! It's
part of your SENILITY! <BG>
You inane posts "calling them out" Is FAR MORE LAME, YOU
STUPID
FUCKING TROLL BY PROXY.
You could not be more stupid if you tried, putz!
The truth hurts, eh, you demented senile idiot who INSISTS on his
"right" to feed the very dumbest, best-known, clinically insane
troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself! And, YES,
that IS a typical SENILE thing, senile asshole! LOL
On 14/04/2022 12:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175237367160?hash=item28ccf60578
On 14/04/2022 13:03, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:59:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:01:48 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:Doesn't look so good.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
A small one and a smartphone/tablet video fed to a decent sized screen. >>>>
You wouldn't be able to afford an analogue meter that large.
Though you could build one from scratch in the true DIY fashion.
Model 8 Avo is about as big as they ever realistically get now.
ISTR Gallencamp (sp?) did larger ones for school labs back in the 70's. >>>>> There is a Unilab 8" one +/- 50 uA on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115332876615
I was in school in the 80s, and we had massive ones, looked like some
kind of old fashioned weighscale from a fair. Very useful for the whole >>>> class to see the volts and amps in a circuit under demonstration.
Make one yourself then. This is uk.d-i-y the clue is in the name!
Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them.
I can. Why would they?. As Martin says, just keep searching eBay.
You will still be able to find large analogue pressure gauges, these are still used in industry.
On 14/04/2022 12:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous
voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter
with a long lightweight pointer.
If it's that simple make one. This is a DIY group.
On 4/14/22 6:45 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
Something like this one?
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/clt/d/marietta-vintage-analog-43-range/7471256908.html
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 15:34:36 +0100, David <david@nospam.org> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175237367160?hash=item28ccf60578
Oh they're beautiful, but even older and better made than what I was remembering (hence those have a lot of antique value, £92+ is a bit
much!), which was metal/plastic and cream coloured, sorta like the top
part of these post office scales but painted cream, with just a voltage
scale across it.
On 4/14/22 10:55, charles wrote:
[snip]
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters >>>> now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
Battery acid per cell?
In article <op.1kl8yqoymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
<op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor? Or just draw it digitally on a
monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large meters
now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:53:20 +0100, "Jon" <jon@nospam.cn> wrote:
We had them in our highschool electronis shop. About a 24 inch face
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan...
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
I am sure there was one used in a willy wonka film.
and 270 fegree scale.
On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 4:31:35 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:16:28 +0100, Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >> >> people, about a foot long pointer.
R/C servo with pointer, PIC with ADC, code.
This shouldn't be necessary, in the 80s in school we had enormous voltmeters and ammeters for demonstrations. Just a simple coil meter with a long lightweight pointer.
Not so simple if you want accuracy. For one thing, the pointer ought to be counterweighted, not
just lightweight. For another, the glass pane that protects the pointer must be grounded,
or electrostatic charge will disrupt the reading. A d'Arsonval movement is hard to scale up
and keep rugged; taut-band and such are improvements, but... servo is what's easily available for
a DIY project.
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
I have such a mechanism, except it doesn't have the pointer or scale
fitted. In fact I have several.
They are Texas Instruments chart recorders with moving coil mechanisms
to deflect the pen across the chart. Later chart recorders use
servomotors with potentiometers for positional feedback and small
motors, but these ones just have an enormous moving coil mechanism and
no feedback.
There is an Alnico (or similar) horseshoe magnet about 5 inches in each dimension, with curved pole pieces attached, and coil about an inch and
a half across, several inches long, in precision bearings, IIRC with a stationary cylindrical iron piece inside the coil to increase and shape
the magnetic flux.
I have no idea what use they could be but can't bring myself to throw
them out. I guess they might be usable as laser galvos, though the coils
are not optimised for low moment of inertia so I think they would not be great for that.
Unfortunately unshielded magnets weighing more than several house bricks
are not the kind of things that are easily sent in a parcel, and I live
in Australia, otherwise I would try to sell you one, or give it to you
if you asked nicely enough.
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of
people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
On 2022-04-15 09:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 15:34:36 +0100, David <david@nospam.org> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 12:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the >>>> teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175237367160?hash=item28ccf60578
Oh they're beautiful, but even older and better made than what I was
remembering (hence those have a lot of antique value, 92+ is a bit
much!), which was metal/plastic and cream coloured, sorta like the top
part of these post office scales but painted cream, with just a voltage
scale across it.
80 + shipping is certainly too much.
All have centered needles for a +/- indicating instrument. All scales
are NOT so.
The 2nd is a really bad 'restoration' job with a non-fitting scale, not
even aligned with the rotation center. The 3rd and 4th are also with a
bad replaced scale, but at least centered.
I'd say this is only worth $15 + shipping.
The truth hurts, eh, you demented senile idiot who INSISTS on his
"right" to feed the very dumbest, best-known, clinically insane
troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself! And, YES,
that IS a typical SENILE thing, senile asshole! LOL
Says the retarded idiot unable to see that his follow along behind
and berate posts are as trolling as it gets.
You are truly pathetic, you stupid piece of shit.
Your whore mother should be put in prison for failing to flush you
the moment the severely ass fucked street slut shat you.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:55:26 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:
In article <op.1kl8yqoymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
<op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor? Or just draw it digitally on
a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must
exist somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large
meters now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
Space in the pistons added together is the usual measurement.
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that pumping
a tank of gas.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:55:26 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:
In article <op.1kl8yqoymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:exist
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
<op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor? Or just draw it digitally on a
monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must
meterssomewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large
now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
Space in the pistons added together is the usual measurement.
In article <op.1knp9m1tmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:55:26 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:
In article <op.1kl8yqoymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:24 +0100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:
On 14-Apr-22 9:13 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in
<op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor? Or just draw it digitally on
a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must
exist somewhere.
They may well have existed then, but given the modern alternatives
suggested by Jan that exist, I doubt there's a market for large
meters now.
It just isn't the same. Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
6.2 litres of what?
Space in the pistons added together is the usual measurement.
you don't have pistons on an electric car.
On 15/04/2022 09:08, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
Use an arduino. Then you can use the arduino a/d convertor inputs as
well for your measurement! win win!
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:08:46 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1knp8wj5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
Just for the sake of argument,
and because posting to DIY and electronics.design
driving an RC servo is not that hard:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/camc_pic/
you will have to learn PIC asm ;-)
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now - then quietly forget the whole idea...
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.
On 15/04/2022 12:28, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:08:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1knp8wj5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
Just for the sake of argument,
and because posting to DIY and electronics.design
driving an RC servo is not that hard:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/camc_pic/
you will have to learn PIC asm ;-)
No. It can be done entirely in analogue. Servo motor controls a
potentiometer that balances out a potential divider to match the
incoming unknown voltage. Classic A level physics experiment.
Put a needle on the shaft of the pot and you are done!
It is how all servos were done once upon a time in the pre digital age.
amdx wrote:
================
Whitless IDIOT whit3rd wrote:
** Moving coil meters all have them - excepting maybe some edge reading types.Not so simple if you want accuracy. For one thing, the pointer ought to be counterweighted, notAh, had not thought about the counter weight,
just lightweight. For another, the glass pane that protects the pointer must be grounded,
or electrostatic charge will disrupt the reading. A d'Arsonval movement is hard to scale up
and keep rugged; taut-band and such are improvements, but... servo is what's easily available for
a DIY project.
Essential to keep the scale linear.
https://thefactfactor.com/facts/pure_science/physics/ammeter-and-voltmeter/5931/
..... Phil
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote:
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:02:15 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org, an ESPECIALLY retarded, troll-feeding, senile ASSHOLE, blathered, yet again:
feed the very dumbest, best-known, clinically insane troll and attention whore, sociopathic PHucker himself!
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org, an ESPECIALLY retarded,
troll-feeding, senile ASSHOLE, blathered, yet again:
feed the very dumbest, best-known, clinically insane troll and attention
whore, sociopathic PHucker himself!
Are you only here to chase this Kinsey chap. Occasionaly annoying,
but nowhere near worst.
On 4/15/2022 5:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now -
then quietly forget the whole idea...
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Cars today no longer have to be hand cranked to startNor have they been for the last 60 years
even have heaters in them.
On 15/04/2022 13:17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2022 5:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Obviously you haven't .
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now -
then quietly forget the whole idea...
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature tech.
Cars today no longer have to be hand cranked to startNor have they been for the last 60 years
and the top models
even have heaters in them.
I remember heaters in the 1950 cars
Amazing the progress they made.
Amazing the delusions you suffer from
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:12:19 +0100) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <t3bnf4$17oc$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
On 15/04/2022 12:28, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:08:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1knp8wj5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote: >>>>
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
Just for the sake of argument,
and because posting to DIY and electronics.design
driving an RC servo is not that hard:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/camc_pic/
you will have to learn PIC asm ;-)
No. It can be done entirely in analogue. Servo motor controls a
potentiometer that balances out a potential divider to match the
incoming unknown voltage. Classic A level physics experiment.
Put a needle on the shaft of the pot and you are done!
It is how all servos were done once upon a time in the pre digital age.
This is about RC servos, easy to obtain anywhere at low cost for small ones,
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/hobby-servo-tutorial/all
scroll down to 'Control Signal' for specs.
Those servos have a chip to drive the motor and a potmeter feeds back to it as you described.
The RC protocol is almost universal.
Maybe you could hack one but then you need to design the drive electronics and comparator.
Remember servo turns both ways... Would be a lot more work.
Else SHOW us what you have.
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature tech.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:40:11 +0100, newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>
Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them.
I can. Why would they?. As Martin says, just keep searching eBay.
To quickly see a value from a distance.
You will still be able to find large analogue pressure gauges, these are
still used in industry.
It's volts and amps I want.
On 15/04/2022 08:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:40:11 +0100, newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>
Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them.
I can. Why would they?. As Martin says, just keep searching eBay.
To quickly see a value from a distance.
You will still be able to find large analogue pressure gauges, these are >>> still used in industry.
It's volts and amps I want.
Yes. And when, on the plant, they have volts they can drive an
electronic device that is going to be cheaper, more accurate, have
logging and remote transmission capability, be self illuminating, etc
etc. And when it stops working they know the volts have stopped too.
As I said, chemical plant still has a use for pressure gauges.
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature
tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
On 4/15/2022 10:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/04/2022 13:17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:I don't understand why people go into engineering and science. According
On 4/15/2022 5:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Obviously you haven't .
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now -
then quietly forget the whole idea...
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty
mature tech.
Cars today no longer have to be hand cranked to startNor have they been for the last 60 years
and the top models
even have heaters in them.
I remember heaters in the 1950 cars
Amazing the progress they made.
Amazing the delusions you suffer from
to you, everything is already invented and will never get better.
Nothing can or will be improved.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:12:19 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 12:28, Jan Panteltje wrote:But digital servos and arduinos make it SO much simpler!!!!!!
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:08:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1knp8wj5mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:37:00 +0100, Andy Bennet <aben@benj.com> wrote: >>>>
On 14/04/2022 11:45, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of >>>>>> people, about a foot long pointer.
just buy a cheap servo and put a chuffin great pointer on it!
Doesn't that mean me designing a PWM controller?
Just for the sake of argument,
and because posting to DIY and electronics.design
driving an RC servo is not that hard:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/camc_pic/
you will have to learn PIC asm ;-)
No. It can be done entirely in analogue. Servo motor controls a
potentiometer that balances out a potential divider to match the
incoming unknown voltage. Classic A level physics experiment.
Put a needle on the shaft of the pot and you are done!
It is how all servos were done once upon a time in the pre digital age.
Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@devnull.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature >>> tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
I think TNP has reached his “new tech” limit.
The automatic headlights on my car are quite amazing. I haven’t worked out how the work but they’re a *lot* more sophisticated that a simple forward pointing photocell. I suspect some fairly serious image processing is going on.
Tim
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature
tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
On 15/04/2022 15:50, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2022 10:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/04/2022 13:17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:I don't understand why people go into engineering and science.
On 4/15/2022 5:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Obviously you haven't .
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery >>>>>> material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now -
then quietly forget the whole idea...
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty
mature tech.
Cars today no longer have to be hand cranked to startNor have they been for the last 60 years
and the top models
even have heaters in them.
I remember heaters in the 1950 cars
Amazing the progress they made.
Amazing the delusions you suffer from
According to you, everything is already invented and will never get
better. Nothing can or will be improved.
They go into engineering in order to ensure they dont waste millions of
other peoples money trying to invent stuff that will never work, because
it cannot work.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
But believe what you will. Its nicer to beleive in warm cuddly
optimistic shit rather than face reality.
On 15/04/2022 16:42, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Oh golly, a reversing camera with smarts! That will really increase the
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature >>> tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
range
And what, pray *fundamental* difference does that make to the car?
Here we are with car with a battery we cant mine the minerals for with
a range that is inadequate and a charge time that is excessive.
I mean LETS ADD A SMART REVERSING CAMERA instead of solving the
insoluble problems and call it 'new tech'
In my day we called it 'chrome, and tailfins'
God you are pathetic.
On 15/04/2022 16:42, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Oh golly, a reversing camera with smarts! That will really increase the
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature >>> tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
range
And what, pray *fundamental* difference does that make to the car?
Here we are with car with a battery we cant mine the minerals for with
a range that is inadequate and a charge time that is excessive.
I mean LETS ADD A SMART REVERSING CAMERA instead of solving the
insoluble problems and call it 'new tech'
In my day we called it 'chrome, and tailfins'
God you are pathetic.
On 15/04/2022 18:13, Tim+ wrote:
Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@devnull.com> wrote:And how much has the increased the range?
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature >>>> tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who
works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic
headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
I think TNP has reached his “new tech” limit.
The automatic headlights on my car are quite amazing. I haven’t worked out >> how the work but they’re a *lot* more sophisticated that a simple forward >> pointing photocell. I suspect some fairly serious image processing is going >> on.
Tim
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
On 2022-04-14 13:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
It may be stuff specific for schools, not really for labs or industry.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:00:36 +0100, newshound <sradcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 08:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:40:11 +0100, newshound <sradcl...@gmail.com>
I can. Why would they?. As Martin says, just keep searching eBay.
Easier to press a button on Ebay, I can't believe nobody makes them. >>>
To quickly see a value from a distance.
You will still be able to find large analogue pressure gauges, these are >>> still used in industry.
It's volts and amps I want.
Yes. And when, on the plant, they have volts they can drive an
electronic device that is going to be cheaper, more accurate, have
logging and remote transmission capability, be self illuminating, etc
etc. And when it stops working they know the volts have stopped too.
But there's the basic idea a big analogue thing gives you a rough reading fast, and a digital one gives you an accurate reading slowly. Compare analogue clock face to digital watch. Compare analogue speedometer to digital.
As I said, chemical plant still has a use for pressure gauges.
Surely there are digital ones of those?
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
In 1889, Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office. He
is widely quoted as having stated that the patent office would soon
shrink in size, and eventually close, because… “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2022-04-14 13:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
It may be stuff specific for schools, not really for labs or industry.
Indeed. And a lot of that stuff just isn't made any more,
like orrery's, which used to be in every gradeschool science class.
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The only radical breakthrough in the last 20 years has been the solid
state disk.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of >the power used by an Intel equivalent.
On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 2022 10:35:52 -0000 (UTC)) it happened RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote in <t3e668$vfh$1@dont-email.me>
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
The new Green computers will be powered by the cooling fans in reverse
Just keep th'm in the wind.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:46:47 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:There was a small local company that made a lot of the stuff for
On 2022-04-14 13:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room >>>>>> of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school, the >>>> teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
It may be stuff specific for schools, not really for labs or industry.
Indeed. And a lot of that stuff just isn't made any more,
like orrery's, which used to be in every gradeschool science class.
schools across Canada and I believe the USA as well. Can't remember
the name.
Then there was another company - Ritz Electronics? in New Dundee that
made a lot of custom stiff too
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
On 2022-04-16, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The only radical breakthrough in the last 20 years has been the solid
state disk.
Radical breakthroughs aren't how things happen. Slow and steady wins
the race.
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1It says its just another ARM chip, invented *37 years ago* and used in
every mobile phone...
lrdag den 16. april 2022 kl. 14.58.53 UTC+2 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"It says its just another ARM chip, invented *37 years ago* and used in
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >> >>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
every mobile phone...
sure, in the same way the latest Intel CPU is "just another x86 invented 44 years ago"
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
It says its just another ARM chip, invented *37 years ago* and used in
every mobile phone...
ArtStudents™ think Marketing is engineering.
Bless!
On 16 Apr 2022 at 13:58:46 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>>> is add more cores.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
It says its just another ARM chip, invented *37 years ago* and used in
every mobile phone...
Nope. Apple Mac mini M1 power consumption is 3 times lower than Intel model: A testament of Apple Silicon's efficiency
https://www.techspot.com/news/88482-apple-mac-mini-m1-power-consumption-3-times.html
ArtStudents™ think Marketing is engineering.
Bless!
Really?
On 16 Apr 2022 at 13:58:46 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>>> is add more cores.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
It says its just another ARM chip, invented *37 years ago* and used in
every mobile phone...
Nope. Apple Mac mini M1 power consumption is 3 times lower than Intel model: A testament of Apple Silicon's efficiency
https://www.techspot.com/news/88482-apple-mac-mini-m1-power-consumption-3-times.html
ArtStudents™ think Marketing is engineering.
Bless!
Really?
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:35:52 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can
do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a
third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
And this feat of breaking the laws of physics is achieved by?
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:46:47 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2022-04-14 13:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:52:32 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:45:06 +0100) it happened
"Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kl2tgobmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a
room
of people, about a foot long pointer.
Use a small one, camera and monitor?
Or just draw it digitally on a monitor?
Could do, but I remember a long long time ago when I was at school,
the
teacher had a voltmeter with a foot long needle. They must exist
somewhere.
It may be stuff specific for schools, not really for labs or industry.
Indeed. And a lot of that stuff just isn't made any more,
like orrery's, which used to be in every gradeschool science class.
I'm sure they're in some science museums. I guess now we have to make
do with pictures on a computer screen.
On 16/04/2022 12:39, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-16, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can
do
is add more cores.
The only radical breakthrough in the last 20 years has been the solid
state disk.
Radical breakthroughs aren't how things happen.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Hand wavey platitude.
In 1976 I got 50mpg out of my car. In 2020 I got 50 mpg...
And modern cars require far less tuning and are
much more reliable than one that is 50 years old.
On 4/16/2022 3:05:09 PM, Jock wrote:
And modern cars require far less tuning and are
much more reliable than one that is 50 years old.
In 1979, my wife and I bought a new Ford Mustang. On the way home from
the dealer, the engine stalled at every stoplight.
Fast forward to 2017 when I bought a new Ford Escape. Yup, you guessed
it. On the way home from the dealer, the engine stalled at every
stoplight.
Apparently the engineers couldn't keep the engine running at low RPM so
the marketing department named the "feature" Auto Start/Stop technology.
( Seriously though, the Escape has been awesome. We plan to buy an
Explorer soon. )
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>> is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>>> is add more cores.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>>> is add more cores.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:10:50 +0100, RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 13:58:46 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 13:31, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Nope. Apple Mac mini M1 power consumption is 3 times lower than Intel model:
A testament of Apple Silicon's efficiency
https://www.techspot.com/news/88482-apple-mac-mini-m1-power-consumption-3-times.html
Yeah right, someone can make a better chip than Intel. ROTFPMSL!
ArtStudents™ think Marketing is engineering.
Bless!
Really?
Yes really. ART, not Engineering. Different mindset entirely.
On 4/16/2022 3:05:09 PM, Jock wrote:
And modern cars require far less tuning and are
much more reliable than one that is 50 years old.
In 1979, my wife and I bought a new Ford Mustang. On the way home from the dealer, the engine stalled at every stoplight.
Fast forward to 2017 when I bought a new Ford Escape. Yup, you guessed it. On the way home from the dealer, the engine stalled
at every stoplight.
Apparently the engineers couldn't keep the engine running at low RPM so the marketing department named the "feature" Auto
Start/Stop technology.
( Seriously though, the Escape has been awesome. We plan to buy an Explorer soon. )
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do >>>>>> is add more cores.
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're
constantly proved wrong.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they >>>>>>> can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and >>>>>> a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to program in assembler even if it does take more lines.
On 17/04/2022 00:20, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:In terms of power consumption, yes, but is that the be all and end all
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
of 'efficiency'?
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to program in assembler even if it does take more lines.
On 17/04/2022 01:38, rbowman wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:I've not found any ARM will beat a late model Intel yet, but there is no reason why ultimately it shouldn't. After all most CISC processors are
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they >>>>>>>> can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and >>>>>>> a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to program in
assembler even if it does take more lines.
RISC processors with microcode.
But the point here is that Apple didn't 'design' the chip any more than
it designed the 6502, 6800, power PC or Intel chips.
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:20:48 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
The long-term problem with Intel is that they cannot let go of the x86 architecture, and over time this has become severely limiting.
Apple had the same problem, but eventually did transition from
Motorola CPUs to Intel, gaining the ability to run Windows on Apple
desktop and laptop computers. But the Intel architecture had become
too hide-bound, and Apple was more or less forced to escape.
But I wonder how well and how long Apple's new M1 architecture will be
able to support running Windows OS and software, which is exactly what
I'm using as I type these words. (iMac (with lots of memory),
Parallels, Win10, Forte Agent.)
I may stay on Intel for that reason, for desktops, but iPhones and
iPads will go M1, because I have no reason to retain Intel there. But
I will wait for the few apps I use to have become mature on M1 first.
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number of
programs they can run.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krswpr1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:01:30 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krsw...@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
Most people have trouble using Windows, nevermind Linux.
Anyway, I run a lot of science research programs (see Boinc) and I think out of about 40 projects, only 5 run on ARM. They just don't see the point in recoding everything.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
As for the "more ram" for code, that's not necessarily true either,
as all risc instructions are fixed (2 or 4 bytes depending) while
the intel instructions can be much longer than 4 bytes; plus the
variable length instructions on x86 complicate instruction decoding
and make out-of-order execution more complicated.
Fact is that the Apple Aarch64 processor is better than the intel
processors in almost every way, including performance per watt.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:09:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 01:38, rbowman wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:I've not found any ARM will beat a late model Intel yet, but there is no
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked >>>>>>>>> any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they >>>>>>>>> can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and >>>>>>>> a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to program in >>> assembler even if it does take more lines.
reason why ultimately it shouldn't. After all most CISC processors are
RISC processors with microcode.
But the point here is that Apple didn't 'design' the chip any more than
it designed the 6502, 6800, power PC or Intel chips.
So the high speed is just magic then?
On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 22 20:31:39 UTC) it happened Jimmy Farley <jimmy.farley@fake.id> wrote in <yCPhHhTpuqyZjmKLJmgwJTVvZQiJtetO@news.usenet.farm>:
On 4/16/2022 3:05:09 PM, Jock wrote:Lemme see, around 1973 I had a Ford Mustang V8 Cobra Special
And modern cars require far less tuning and are
much more reliable than one that is 50 years old.
In 1979, my wife and I bought a new Ford Mustang. On the way home from the dealer, the engine stalled at every stoplight.
Never stalled at stoplights,.. Out of there fast :-)
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:01:30 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krswpr1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
Most people have trouble using Windows, nevermind Linux.
Anyway, I run a lot of science research programs (see Boinc) and I think out of about 40 projects, only 5 run on ARM. They just
don't see the point in recoding everything.
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:09:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 01:38, rbowman wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:I've not found any ARM will beat a late model Intel yet, but there is no >>> reason why ultimately it shouldn't. After all most CISC processors are
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"I prefer things designed for adults.
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked >>>>>>>>>> any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they >>>>>>>>>> can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and >>>>>>>>> a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1 >>>>>>
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC >>>> and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to program in >>>> assembler even if it does take more lines.
RISC processors with microcode.
But the point here is that Apple didn't 'design' the chip any more than
it designed the 6502, 6800, power PC or Intel chips.
So the high speed is just magic then?
https://www.pcmag.com/news/intel-hires-apple-engineer-who-helped-develop-m1-mac-chips
There's a guy who must have NDA's up the wazoo...
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm.
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:31:56 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krxbi2lmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:01:30 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krswpr1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
Most people have trouble using Windows, nevermind Linux.
Anyway, I run a lot of science research programs (see Boinc) and I think out of about 40 projects, only 5 run on ARM. They just
don't see the point in recoding everything.
Well, I have written loads of programs for x86 in C for Unix / Linux
Ported all I use to Raspberries..
The breaking point is sometimes the libraries,
I try to avoid linking in libraries anyways if possible, I had to port some existing ones and change those.
So its work, but everything I normally use now also runs on raspis.
My PC is off these days, 5 raspberries in the room, 3 on 24/7, 1 on all day as router, and 1 for experiments.
Only time PC is on is for adjusting satellite dish and HAM radio QO100 stuff that software has already been recompiled on the raspi, needs a new USB DVB-S2 tuner compatible with the Linux kernel.
Low priority.
Surviving WW3 comes first ?
Anyways one big EMP and all those cellphones and puters and electric power are no more.
Then you need an abacus :-)
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:46:46 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr0r8vvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so? I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
from the eighties, CP/M clone:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:03:59 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:20:48 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
The long-term problem with Intel is that they cannot let go of the x86
architecture, and over time this has become severely limiting.
Apple had the same problem, but eventually did transition from
Motorola CPUs to Intel, gaining the ability to run Windows on Apple
desktop and laptop computers. But the Intel architecture had become
too hide-bound, and Apple was more or less forced to escape.
But I wonder how well and how long Apple's new M1 architecture will be
able to support running Windows OS and software, which is exactly what
I'm using as I type these words. (iMac (with lots of memory),
Parallels, Win10, Forte Agent.)
I may stay on Intel for that reason, for desktops, but iPhones and
iPads will go M1, because I have no reason to retain Intel there. But
I will wait for the few apps I use to have become mature on M1 first.
So a speed change but no compatibility? Bit of a bugger to change every program's coding.
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:03:59 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >>
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:20:48 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
The long-term problem with Intel is that they cannot let go of the x86
architecture, and over time this has become severely limiting.
Apple had the same problem, but eventually did transition from
Motorola CPUs to Intel, gaining the ability to run Windows on Apple
desktop and laptop computers. But the Intel architecture had become
too hide-bound, and Apple was more or less forced to escape.
But I wonder how well and how long Apple's new M1 architecture will be
able to support running Windows OS and software, which is exactly what
I'm using as I type these words. (iMac (with lots of memory),
Parallels, Win10, Forte Agent.)
I may stay on Intel for that reason, for desktops, but iPhones and
iPads will go M1, because I have no reason to retain Intel there. But
I will wait for the few apps I use to have become mature on M1 first.
So a speed change but no compatibility? Bit of a bugger to change every program's coding.
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?
Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions, one of which I was
in. One long wall of our meeting room ad a very large mirror, one
that looked a bit odd. It was half-silvered, and there were observers watching the from behind that "mirror".
The questions wandered around, then eventually converged. We all knew
that Apple was moving to Intel, as this had bee reported extensively
in the trade press. The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm.
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:41:10 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:31:56 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krxbi2lmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:01:30 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krswpr1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number
of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
Most people have trouble using Windows, nevermind Linux.
Anyway, I run a lot of science research programs (see Boinc) and I think out of about 40 projects, only 5 run on ARM. They
just
don't see the point in recoding everything.
Well, I have written loads of programs for x86 in C for Unix / Linux
Ported all I use to Raspberries..
The breaking point is sometimes the libraries,
I try to avoid linking in libraries anyways if possible, I had to port some existing ones and change those.
How much work is it? And can everything be ported? You could do a lot of good on the boinc projects.
So its work, but everything I normally use now also runs on raspis.
My PC is off these days, 5 raspberries in the room, 3 on 24/7, 1 on all day as router, and 1 for experiments.
Only time PC is on is for adjusting satellite dish and HAM radio QO100 stuff >> that software has already been recompiled on the raspi, needs a new USB DVB-S2 tuner compatible with the Linux kernel.
Low priority.
Surviving WW3 comes first ?
Anyways one big EMP and all those cellphones and puters and electric power are no more.
Then you need an abacus :-)
Some people backup to optical just in case.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:51:47 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:46:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr0r8vvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have
trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
from the eighties, CP/M clone:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the
program require AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:55:45 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr3y7nhmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:41:10 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:31:56 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krxbi2lmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:01:30 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:56:39 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1krswpr1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Indeed, my phone and (not that I have one) Raspberry Pis, and also GPUs are very power efficient but they lack the number
of
programs they can run.
Not so sure, maybe a few MS windows program
but the open source Unix / Linux world has likely an often better version, free at that, and a lot more choice.
https://howchoo.com/pi/run-windows-raspberry-pi
I never feel limited on Linux.
And what does not exist I can write.
Most people have trouble using Windows, nevermind Linux.
Anyway, I run a lot of science research programs (see Boinc) and I think out of about 40 projects, only 5 run on ARM. They
just
don't see the point in recoding everything.
Well, I have written loads of programs for x86 in C for Unix / Linux
Ported all I use to Raspberries..
The breaking point is sometimes the libraries,
I try to avoid linking in libraries anyways if possible, I had to port some existing ones and change those.
How much work is it? And can everything be ported? You could do a lot of good on the boinc projects.
Depends, I had problems with libforms, they dropped right and middle mouse, contacted the developer
but used an old version and recompiled that on raspi, renamed it libzorms.... (to avoid conflict with any newer version) works..
The gcc compiler is very very good, so its not that hard, it is more getting used to things.
Much has been ported to ARM / raspi for Debian, often all it needs is 'apt-get install library-name'
So its work, but everything I normally use now also runs on raspis.
My PC is off these days, 5 raspberries in the room, 3 on 24/7, 1 on all day as router, and 1 for experiments.
Only time PC is on is for adjusting satellite dish and HAM radio QO100 stuff
that software has already been recompiled on the raspi, needs a new USB DVB-S2 tuner compatible with the Linux kernel.
Low priority.
Surviving WW3 comes first ?
Anyways one big EMP and all those cellphones and puters and electric power are no more.
Then you need an abacus :-)
Some people backup to optical just in case.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG
Optical media last very very long in the dark, I also used some M_Discs
that box hold a thousand CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, Blu-ray discs and is full.
Now I backup daily to 3 TB USB drives... two, in case I drop one.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give
them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give
them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter that
used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration.
Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user interface
was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently different
that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K was
a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really
good after 3 decades...
Some people backup to optical just in case.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG
Optical media last very very long in the dark, I also used some M_Discs
that box hold a thousand CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, Blu-ray discs and is full.
Now I backup daily to 3 TB USB drives... two, in case I drop one.
Just how much data have you got?! That is a lot of disks.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:56:59 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr309ibmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:51:47 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:46:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr0r8vvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have
trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
from the eighties, CP/M clone:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the
program require AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I have never written anything in Python, and have no intention to learn it.
C is <in my view> much simpler.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:42:23 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr54xtqmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Some people backup to optical just in case.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG
Optical media last very very long in the dark, I also used some M_Discs
that box hold a thousand CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, Blu-ray discs and is full.
Now I backup daily to 3 TB USB drives... two, in case I drop one.
Just how much data have you got?! That is a lot of disks.
I dunno, many are CD-R from many many years ago, with all sort of things, even movies.
For more recent data this is sda2 from a Raspberry Pi4 with 4 GB RAM:
/dev/sda2 3844510712 3239539624 409610424 89% /mnt/sda2
so 89 % of a 4 TB Toshiba USB harddisk
That includes images of SDcard, some distros, what not.
Logs.. I have radiation logs that go back years for example.
Backups of the website... smartphone, legal stuff, financial stuff, all code I wrote,
security videos, all emails of the last 20 years or so, pictures I took and videos I made,
many Usenet postings I saved back over the last 20 years, easy with the newsreader I wrote
it has a search function, etc etc.., datasheets...
But even Linux 'locate' will find things in seconds.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:25:15 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:09:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 01:38, rbowman wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:I've not found any ARM will beat a late model Intel yet, but there
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"I prefer things designed for adults.
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked >>>>>>>>>>> any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all >>>>>>>>>>> they
can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half >>>>>>>>>> and
a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1 >>>>>>>
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with
TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what
area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create
optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to
program in
assembler even if it does take more lines.
is no
reason why ultimately it shouldn't. After all most CISC processors are >>>> RISC processors with microcode.
But the point here is that Apple didn't 'design' the chip any more than >>>> it designed the 6502, 6800, power PC or Intel chips.
So the high speed is just magic then?
https://www.pcmag.com/news/intel-hires-apple-engineer-who-helped-develop-m1-mac-chips
There's a guy who must have NDA's up the wazoo...
So if he makes an Intel chip based on ideas in Apple, how do they prove
it? It's like saying that song sounds a bit like that one.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm.
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
On 04/17/2022 10:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm.
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 but >>> I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
Until the company upgraded my desktop I was using the laptop for some projects. It beat the hell out of an elderly Core i5 with a hard drive.
I'm not a real fan of laptops but they have their place. I'm using a
company supplied laptop for remote work. Admittedly the HDMI is plugged
into my desktop monitor though a switch and I use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard but it's good enough to VPN in to a real machine.
It's also difficult to travel with a desktop...
On 04/17/2022 10:53 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:25:15 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:09:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 01:38, rbowman wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:I've not found any ARM will beat a late model Intel yet, but there
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"I prefer things designed for adults.
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" >>>>>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:That by itself, says nothing
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked >>>>>>>>>>>> any
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all >>>>>>>>>>>> they
can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half >>>>>>>>>>> and
a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1 >>>>>>>>
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with >>>>>> TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking >>>>>> Intel ass.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what >>>>>> area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create
optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
RISC designed like Atmel's AVR products are a lot more fun to
program in
assembler even if it does take more lines.
is no
reason why ultimately it shouldn't. After all most CISC processors are >>>>> RISC processors with microcode.
But the point here is that Apple didn't 'design' the chip any more than >>>>> it designed the 6502, 6800, power PC or Intel chips.
So the high speed is just magic then?
https://www.pcmag.com/news/intel-hires-apple-engineer-who-helped-develop-m1-mac-chips
There's a guy who must have NDA's up the wazoo...
So if he makes an Intel chip based on ideas in Apple, how do they prove
it? It's like saying that song sounds a bit like that one.
The whole IP thing is a mess. Stephen Kinsella makes a good argument
against patents and copyrights. That Oracle/Google debacle is a good
example. Java wasn't even Oracle's brainchild; they bought it when they acquired Sun.
Earlier it had been Sun versus Microsoft when MS came out with Visual
J++. The agreement would have frozen J++ so MS discontinued it. There
was a brief fling with J# but MS used what it had learned to develop C#, which is superior to Java and C++ imnsho. In a way Sun did the world a favor.
Music is a good analogy. I was messing around with a guitar in a shop, playing in C, but no specific song. Another customer asked what the tune
was and I said I didn't know.
Some employment contracts disallow working in the same industry for N
years after leaving. That makes more sense. More by chance rather than planning I've never worked in the same areas but if I did I don't know
how I would filter what I knew.
As for patents, one of my early mentors was an inventor who had launched several products. He never patented anything and felt the patent process disclosed too much. Bring the product to market, grab the money, and
move on to another. If it is a success it will be copied anyway but
there is no reason to give competitors a heads up.
Only time PC is on is for adjusting satellite dish and HAM radio QO100 stuff that software has already been recompiled on the raspi, needs a new USB DVB-S2 tuner compatible with the Linux kernel.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so? I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
is add more cores.
The only radical breakthrough in the last 20 years has been the solid
state disk.
Curiously not invented by Clive Sinclair or James Dyson, but by real engineers working in large companies.
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of
problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require
AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:56:59 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr309ibmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:51:47 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:46:46 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr0r8vvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized >>>>>> code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have
trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
from the eighties, CP/M clone:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the
program require AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I have never written anything in Python, and have no intention to learn it.
C is <in my view> much simpler.
On 04/17/2022 11:20 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:56:59 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr309ibmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:51:47 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:46:46 +0100) it happened "Commander >>>> Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr0r8vvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what area >>>>>>> you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code >>>>>> for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give them a computer from the 80s and they'd have
trouble
writing a calculator program to fit into 64KB.
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
from the eighties, CP/M clone:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/index.html
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the
program require AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I have never written anything in Python, and have no intention to learn it. >> C is <in my view> much simpler.
Agreed, but I do a lot of GIS work and ESRI went to Python for a
scripting language when VBA died. For quick and dirty jobs I can write
20 lines of Python or 200 lines of C++. (Their API uses COM. I have
used C with COM but life is too short...)
On 04/17/2022 10:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of
problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require
AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I've run into that a couple of times. In one case out of about 30
programming and QA machines I found two that could run the program. I
just happened to develop it on one of the two and was fat, dumb, and
happy until I tried to distribute it.
Python 3.x I assume? ESRI has been using 2.7 for some GIS scripting but
are moving to 3.x. I can hardly wait to rewrite my scripts.
Agreed apart from "disallow working in the same industry for N years
after leaving". Most people probably work in the same industry for most
of their life. So such a job means if you ever choose to leave, you
can't get another job. I would therefore never take a job with that in
the contract.
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously,
but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each which only
records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate
my neighbour's cat, which she found confusing. But it auto deletes
after a month unless I save it.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:55:20 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what
area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create
optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give >>> them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter that
used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration.
Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user interface
was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently different
that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K was
a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really
good after 3 decades...
I have a mouse driver that's 130MB. WTF? That's over 3 times the size
of the hard disk on a PC I had in 1991. What does the mouse driver do?
Watch for left and right and a few button presses? In 1991 I think it
was 30KB. 4000 times less efficient programming, we've really come far.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:50:36 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm.
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3
but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
Until the company upgraded my desktop I was using the laptop for some
projects. It beat the hell out of an elderly Core i5 with a hard drive.
I'm not a real fan of laptops but they have their place. I'm using a
company supplied laptop for remote work. Admittedly the HDMI is plugged
into my desktop monitor though a switch and I use a bluetooth mouse and
keyboard but it's good enough to VPN in to a real machine.
It's also difficult to travel with a desktop...
I wonder what would happen if you tried to set up a desktop, keyboard,
mouse, monitor on a table on a train?
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally
be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually
the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
On 04/17/2022 01:55 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Agreed apart from "disallow working in the same industry for N years
after leaving". Most people probably work in the same industry for most
of their life. So such a job means if you ever choose to leave, you
can't get another job. I would therefore never take a job with that in
the contract.
Depends on what you mean by industry. For example I've been in the
software 'industry' but went from programming biomedical equipment to aircraft fuel measurement and management to automated testing of copier
power supplies, to semiconductor sputtering systems to....
My software skills remained the same but the applications had little to
do with each other. I've been in my present job for over 20 years but I
got old and slow and didn't need a new challenge every three or four
years. What I have is plenty challenging as the technology changes.
On 04/17/2022 01:24 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously,
but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each which only
records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate
my neighbour's cat, which she found confusing. But it auto deletes
after a month unless I save it.
So they're finding out about body cams. No auto delete after a month
either. It can be years before the case comes to trial and they have to produce the camera video.
On 04/17/2022 01:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:55:20 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> >>>> wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what >>>>>> area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where RISC >>>>>> has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create
optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. Give >>>> them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter that >>> used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration.
Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user interface
was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently different
that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K was
a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really
good after 3 decades...
I have a mouse driver that's 130MB. WTF? That's over 3 times the size
of the hard disk on a PC I had in 1991. What does the mouse driver do?
Watch for left and right and a few button presses? In 1991 I think it
was 30KB. 4000 times less efficient programming, we've really come far.
I looked at Java back in the late '90s. It wasn't too bad but as it grew performance went into the toilet. The answer was 'you need a newer,
faster machine.'
Over twenty years of hardware improvements and Java apps still suck.
I bought an Osborne 1 in '81. It was a CP/M machine and came with 2
single side, single density 5 1/4" floppy drives for a massive 90 KB
each. I later sent it back for the DD upgrade. Some how 90KB was enough
to hold Wordstar, SuperCalc, or the BDS C compiler executables which
happily ran in 64KB of RAM.
Somehow Turbo Pascal managed to compile so fast that at first I thought
it was broken compared to BDS.
On 04/17/2022 01:56 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:50:36 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm. >>>>>>
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 >>>>> but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
Until the company upgraded my desktop I was using the laptop for some
projects. It beat the hell out of an elderly Core i5 with a hard drive.
I'm not a real fan of laptops but they have their place. I'm using a
company supplied laptop for remote work. Admittedly the HDMI is plugged
into my desktop monitor though a switch and I use a bluetooth mouse and
keyboard but it's good enough to VPN in to a real machine.
It's also difficult to travel with a desktop...
I wonder what would happen if you tried to set up a desktop, keyboard,
mouse, monitor on a table on a train?
First you would have to find a train...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:11:56 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:03:59 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >>>
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:20:48 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"I prefer things designed for adults.
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1 >>>>>>
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than
intels X86
The long-term problem with Intel is that they cannot let go of the x86 >>>> architecture, and over time this has become severely limiting.
Apple had the same problem, but eventually did transition from
Motorola CPUs to Intel, gaining the ability to run Windows on Apple
desktop and laptop computers. But the Intel architecture had become
too hide-bound, and Apple was more or less forced to escape.
But I wonder how well and how long Apple's new M1 architecture will be >>>> able to support running Windows OS and software, which is exactly what >>>> I'm using as I type these words. (iMac (with lots of memory),
Parallels, Win10, Forte Agent.)
I may stay on Intel for that reason, for desktops, but iPhones and
iPads will go M1, because I have no reason to retain Intel there. But >>>> I will wait for the few apps I use to have become mature on M1 first.
So a speed change but no compatibility? Bit of a bugger to change every program's coding.
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?
Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
But below you say you can emulate.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions, one of which I was
in. One long wall of our meeting room ad a very large mirror, one
that looked a bit odd. It was half-silvered, and there were observers
watching the from behind that "mirror".
The questions wandered around, then eventually converged. We all knew
that Apple was moving to Intel, as this had bee reported extensively
in the trade press. The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the >rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally
be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large >cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually
the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software
that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the
rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally
be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large
cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually
the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
Yes, but never mind the details, Apple did get it to work very well,
and maintained it for about ten years, then ceased to support it. By
then, most of those critical apps wee no longer critical, or had been
killed off by something else.
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 3:36:35 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Not an uncommon view, but inaccurate. Excel, for example, started life
as macintosh-only code; the Windows version was an afterthought, ported
over.
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:18:43 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of
problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require
AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I've run into that a couple of times. In one case out of about 30
programming and QA machines I found two that could run the program. I
just happened to develop it on one of the two and was fat, dumb, and
happy until I tried to distribute it.
Python 3.x I assume? ESRI has been using 2.7 for some GIS scripting but
are moving to 3.x. I can hardly wait to rewrite my scripts.
Not sure, they run on a Debian virtual machine using Oracle Virtualbox.
This is the last log output I can find if it means anything to you:
On 16/04/2022 11:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any
faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can
do is add more cores.
The only radical breakthrough in the last 20 years has been the solid
state disk.
Curiously not invented by Clive Sinclair or James Dyson, but by real
engineers working in large companies.
Coming in to this rather late - that turns out not to be the case.
The megahertz hasn't gone up much, but the instructions per clock has.
As an example of the reasons for this - do you know about speculative execution?
Once upon a time a processor got to a branch, waited to find out which
way to go, then carried on with the correct instructions.
Then they started to decode the instructions on the non-branch path
early, because they might need them.
Then they added branch predictors, which take an increasingly good guess
as to which way the branch would go, and started on those.
The latest ones start running the instructions on _both_ paths, and
throw away the wrong ones.
All done without increasing the megahertz.
There are lots of other things going on too.
Andy
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:24:59 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:55:20 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal
<scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what >>>>>>> area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where >>>>>>> RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create
optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code >>>>>> for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding.
Give
them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter
that
used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration.
Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user interface >>>> was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently different >>>> that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K was >>>> a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really
good after 3 decades...
I have a mouse driver that's 130MB. WTF? That's over 3 times the size
of the hard disk on a PC I had in 1991. What does the mouse driver do?
Watch for left and right and a few button presses? In 1991 I think it
was 30KB. 4000 times less efficient programming, we've really come far.
I looked at Java back in the late '90s. It wasn't too bad but as it grew
performance went into the toilet. The answer was 'you need a newer,
faster machine.'
Over twenty years of hardware improvements and Java apps still suck.
I bought an Osborne 1 in '81. It was a CP/M machine and came with 2
single side, single density 5 1/4" floppy drives for a massive 90 KB
each. I later sent it back for the DD upgrade. Some how 90KB was enough
to hold Wordstar, SuperCalc, or the BDS C compiler executables which
happily ran in 64KB of RAM.
Somehow Turbo Pascal managed to compile so fast that at first I thought
it was broken compared to BDS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:29:11 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:24 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously, >>> but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each which only
records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate
my neighbour's cat, which she found confusing. But it auto deletes
after a month unless I save it.
So they're finding out about body cams. No auto delete after a month
either. It can be years before the case comes to trial and they have to
produce the camera video.
You can turn them off.
On 04/17/2022 02:55 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:18:43 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of
problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require
AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I've run into that a couple of times. In one case out of about 30
programming and QA machines I found two that could run the program. I
just happened to develop it on one of the two and was fat, dumb, and
happy until I tried to distribute it.
Python 3.x I assume? ESRI has been using 2.7 for some GIS scripting but
are moving to 3.x. I can hardly wait to rewrite my scripts.
Not sure, they run on a Debian virtual machine using Oracle Virtualbox.
This is the last log output I can find if it means anything to you:
Not a clue. Have I mentioned I hate VMs? Sometimes they're good for a
laugh. Some sites with high availability systems respond to Linux like a vampire to garlic. What they don't know is under all those Server 20xx
VMs, Redhat and kvm is holding the whole mess together.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:38:18 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:55 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Agreed apart from "disallow working in the same industry for N years
after leaving". Most people probably work in the same industry for most >>> of their life. So such a job means if you ever choose to leave, you
can't get another job. I would therefore never take a job with that in
the contract.
Depends on what you mean by industry. For example I've been in the
software 'industry' but went from programming biomedical equipment to
aircraft fuel measurement and management to automated testing of copier
power supplies, to semiconductor sputtering systems to....
My software skills remained the same but the applications had little to
do with each other. I've been in my present job for over 20 years but I
got old and slow and didn't need a new challenge every three or four
years. What I have is plenty challenging as the technology changes.
You could always take a "different" job in another company but end up
giving them some secrets to a neighbouring department!
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:39:41 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:56 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:50:36 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm. >>>>>>>
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 >>>>>> but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
Until the company upgraded my desktop I was using the laptop for some
projects. It beat the hell out of an elderly Core i5 with a hard drive. >>>>
I'm not a real fan of laptops but they have their place. I'm using a
company supplied laptop for remote work. Admittedly the HDMI is plugged >>>> into my desktop monitor though a switch and I use a bluetooth mouse and >>>> keyboard but it's good enough to VPN in to a real machine.
It's also difficult to travel with a desktop...
I wonder what would happen if you tried to set up a desktop, keyboard,
mouse, monitor on a table on a train?
First you would have to find a train...
You don't have trains? They're annoying things with shitty brakes that
would cause a car to be taken off the road. They expect everything else
to get out of their way. And they never go where you want to when you
want to. About time we got rid of those useless things which actually
use more fuel per person than a car.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:57 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software >>>> that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the >>> rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally
be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large >>> cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually
the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
Yes, but never mind the details, Apple did get it to work very well,
and maintained it for about ten years, then ceased to support it. By
then, most of those critical apps wee no longer critical, or had been
killed off by something else.
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 3:36:35 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Not an uncommon view, but inaccurate. Excel, for example, started life
as macintosh-only code; the Windows version was an afterthought, ported over.
In article <op.1kl2t...@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com>
wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.get a smaller one and a video camera.
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that pumping
a tank of gas.
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
Still no use for me.
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New batteryStill no use for me.
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
And the battery won't last anything like as long as a modern IC engine.
My previous IC car lasted 45 years fine and only needed to be
replaced because I was too stupid to fix the known windscreen leak
with the car never garaged or car ported.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:28:20 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.Don't buy that either. And even if it was true, much more of a nuisance having to do it most days instead of once a week or so.
On 4/14/2022 6:19 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:28:20 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 4/14/2022 4:25 PM, Jock wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 05:45:30 +1000, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:Still no use for me.
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways.New battery
material, greater range,
charging times not much different that pumping a tank of gas.
Don't believe that will be seen in 5 years with a viable battery life.
You may be right. Could be three years.
Don't buy that either. And even if it was true, much more of a nuisance having to do it most days instead of once a week or so.New models have a range comparable to a gas car, 350 to 400 miles.
Yeah, takes 30 seconds to plug in twice a week. Still faster than
stopping at a gas station.
Rather than dwell on the negatives, educate yourself and you will find
many have been overcome or will be soon.
If I had need for two cars, one would be an EV today. Even now, it is
good for 90% of my needs.
On 4/15/2022 5:11 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/04/2022 20:45, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/14/2022 2:44 PM, Jock wrote:wait 5 years ... if they haven't got much better - same battery
Would you buy a 6.2 litre electric car?
I'm not actually stupid enough to buy any electric car.
Wait 5 years. They will be much better in many ways. New battery
material, greater range, charging times not much different that
pumping a tank of gas.
material, same range, charging times not much different than now - then quietly forget the whole idea...
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Cars today no longer have to be hand cranked to start and the top models
even have heaters in them. Amazing the progress they made.
On 4/14/2022 8:22 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
amdx wrote:
================
Whitless IDIOT whit3rd wrote:
** Moving coil meters all have them - excepting maybe some edge reading types.Not so simple if you want accuracy. For one thing, the pointer ought to be counterweighted, notAh, had not thought about the counter weight,
just lightweight. For another, the glass pane that protects the pointer must be grounded,
or electrostatic charge will disrupt the reading. A d'Arsonval movement is hard to scale up
and keep rugged; taut-band and such are improvements, but... servo is what's easily available for
a DIY project.
Essential to keep the scale linear.
https://thefactfactor.com/facts/pure_science/physics/ammeter-and-voltmeter/5931/
..... Phil
Ya, I've had enough meters apart that after it was said, I remembered
the counterweight on the opposite end of the pointer.
Cindy Hamilton <hami...@devnull.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Obviously you haven't .
Obviously you have never seen the evolution of cars, airplanes,
electronics and the advances that can be made in five years.
Nothing much has changed in any of those fields - they are pretty mature >> tech.
Coincidentally, I had a conversation this morning with an engineer who works for Ford. He works in image processing; one of the projects
he worked on a few years ago enables the backup camera to initiate
braking if it sees an obstacle. He actually benefited from this
feature on a cloudy, gray day when he was backing up toward a gray car.
My husband gave him an idea for additional features for automatic headlights. He said he'd split his bonus with us if he gets one.
There really is a lot more going on than you realize, TNP.
I think TNP has reached his “new tech” limit.
The automatic headlights on my car are quite amazing. I haven’t worked out how the work but they’re a *lot* more sophisticated that a simple forward pointing photocell. I suspect some fairly serious image processing is going on.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 01:49:12 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 02:55 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:18:43 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 10:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of >>>>> problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require >>>>> AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I've run into that a couple of times. In one case out of about 30
programming and QA machines I found two that could run the program. I
just happened to develop it on one of the two and was fat, dumb, and
happy until I tried to distribute it.
Python 3.x I assume? ESRI has been using 2.7 for some GIS scripting but >>>> are moving to 3.x. I can hardly wait to rewrite my scripts.
Not sure, they run on a Debian virtual machine using Oracle Virtualbox.
This is the last log output I can find if it means anything to you:
Not a clue. Have I mentioned I hate VMs? Sometimes they're good for a
laugh. Some sites with high availability systems respond to Linux like a
vampire to garlic. What they don't know is under all those Server 20xx
VMs, Redhat and kvm is holding the whole mess together.
I use them to be able to run Linux shit on my grown up Windows systems.
On 04/17/2022 10:41 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Only time PC is on is for adjusting satellite dish and HAM radio QO100 stuff >> that software has already been recompiled on the raspi, needs a new USB DVB-S2 tuner compatible with the Linux kernel.
Have you looked at DragonOS? I'm running an old SuSE distro and have
thought about trying it. I've been messing around with RTL-SDR on
Windows and it sounds like one stop shopping for Linux.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:11:05 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:42:23 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr54xtqmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Some people backup to optical just in case.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG
Optical media last very very long in the dark, I also used some M_Discs >>>> that box hold a thousand CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, Blu-ray discs and is full.
Now I backup daily to 3 TB USB drives... two, in case I drop one.
Just how much data have you got?! That is a lot of disks.
I dunno, many are CD-R from many many years ago, with all sort of things, even movies.
For more recent data this is sda2 from a Raspberry Pi4 with 4 GB RAM:
/dev/sda2 3844510712 3239539624 409610424 89% /mnt/sda2
so 89 % of a 4 TB Toshiba USB harddisk
That includes images of SDcard, some distros, what not.
Logs.. I have radiation logs that go back years for example.
Backups of the website... smartphone, legal stuff, financial stuff, all code I wrote,
security videos, all emails of the last 20 years or so, pictures I took and videos I made,
many Usenet postings I saved back over the last 20 years, easy with the newsreader I wrote
it has a search function, etc etc.., datasheets...
But even Linux 'locate' will find things in seconds.
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously, but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each
which only records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate my neighbour's cat, which she found
confusing. But it auto deletes after a month unless I save it.
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Agreed apart from "disallow working in the same industry for N years after leaving". Most people probably work in the same
industry for most of their life. So such a job means if you ever choose to leave, you can't get another job. I would therefore
never take a job with that in the contract.
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to improve. >>>>>>>>> Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
On 04/17/2022 03:46 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:29:11 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:24 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously, >>>> but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each which only
records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate >>>> my neighbour's cat, which she found confusing. But it auto deletes
after a month unless I save it.
So they're finding out about body cams. No auto delete after a month
either. It can be years before the case comes to trial and they have to
produce the camera video.
You can turn them off.
That feature may go away; they'll have to get more creative. Currently
some bodycam systems vendors turn the camera on when the officer gets
within a specified distance from the incident. That, of course, also
implies the body camera is a radio collar for the cop.
On 04/17/2022 03:45 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:24:59 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:55:20 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>I looked at Java back in the late '90s. It wasn't too bad but as it grew >>> performance went into the toilet. The answer was 'you need a newer,
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal
<scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient than >>>>>>>>> intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify what >>>>>>>> area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where >>>>>>>> RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create >>>>>>>> optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now,
the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality code >>>>>>> for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. >>>>>> Give
them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter
that
used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration. >>>>> Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user interface >>>>> was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently different >>>>> that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K was >>>>> a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really >>>>> good after 3 decades...
I have a mouse driver that's 130MB. WTF? That's over 3 times the size >>>> of the hard disk on a PC I had in 1991. What does the mouse driver do? >>>> Watch for left and right and a few button presses? In 1991 I think it >>>> was 30KB. 4000 times less efficient programming, we've really come far. >>>
faster machine.'
Over twenty years of hardware improvements and Java apps still suck.
I bought an Osborne 1 in '81. It was a CP/M machine and came with 2
single side, single density 5 1/4" floppy drives for a massive 90 KB
each. I later sent it back for the DD upgrade. Some how 90KB was enough
to hold Wordstar, SuperCalc, or the BDS C compiler executables which
happily ran in 64KB of RAM.
Somehow Turbo Pascal managed to compile so fast that at first I thought
it was broken compared to BDS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
Excellent movie but relevant how?
On 04/17/2022 03:48 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:39:41 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:56 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:50:36 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>
On 04/17/2022 10:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:39:40 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:
On 04/17/2022 07:03 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I have Zen2 (an AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT) and that's also TSMC, but 7nm. >>>>>>>>
The equivalent CPU on Zen3 (Ryzen 9 5900X) is also 7nm.
Yes, very fast.
I've got a 5500U in my laptop. It's a 7nm Zen2 unlike the 5600U Zen3 >>>>>>> but
I have no complaints for a $700 laptop.
That's 0.4 of the speed of my desktop. Laptops suck.
Until the company upgraded my desktop I was using the laptop for some >>>>> projects. It beat the hell out of an elderly Core i5 with a hard drive. >>>>>
I'm not a real fan of laptops but they have their place. I'm using a >>>>> company supplied laptop for remote work. Admittedly the HDMI is plugged >>>>> into my desktop monitor though a switch and I use a bluetooth mouse and >>>>> keyboard but it's good enough to VPN in to a real machine.
It's also difficult to travel with a desktop...
I wonder what would happen if you tried to set up a desktop, keyboard, >>>> mouse, monitor on a table on a train?
First you would have to find a train...
You don't have trains? They're annoying things with shitty brakes that
would cause a car to be taken off the road. They expect everything else
to get out of their way. And they never go where you want to when you
want to. About time we got rid of those useless things which actually
use more fuel per person than a car.
Oh, we have trains but they're hauling coal to BC to ship to China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmTnWxpcEQ
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
That was the Milwaukee Road terminal but they went under in the '70s.
You can't see it but in the foreground the rails have been ripped up and turned into a bike/pedestrian trail.
The other terminal is next to an active rail line but the coal trains don't stop.
The closest passenger terminal is 133 miles north. You might want to
think twice about setting up a computer on the Empire Builder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Montana_train_derailment
Except for the east coast routes favored by government drones like Biden
US passenger rail is pretty dismal. Freight isn't much better:
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/shippers-complain-about-union-pacifics-plans-to-meter-traffic/
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fertilizer-maker-faults-union-pacifics-plan-to-reduce-congestion
The second one is the money shot. A major fertilizer manufacturer can't
ship its product to the Midwest where the farmers are getting ready to
plant. If the farmers skimp on fertilizer the yields will be down. Just
what we need with Ukraine off the table at least for this season.
On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:35:55 AM UTC-4, charles wrote:
In article <op.1kl2t...@ryzen.lan>, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com>
wrote:
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room ofget a smaller one and a video camera.
people, about a foot long pointer.
And a large TV display.
On 04/17/2022 06:51 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 01:49:12 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 02:55 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:18:43 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>
On 04/17/2022 10:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
You sound like a real programmer. As it happens I'm having a lot of >>>>>> problems with Python. Some idiot managed to make the program require >>>>>> AVX, when 50% of the users had CPUs predating that.
I've run into that a couple of times. In one case out of about 30
programming and QA machines I found two that could run the program. I >>>>> just happened to develop it on one of the two and was fat, dumb, and >>>>> happy until I tried to distribute it.
Python 3.x I assume? ESRI has been using 2.7 for some GIS scripting but >>>>> are moving to 3.x. I can hardly wait to rewrite my scripts.
Not sure, they run on a Debian virtual machine using Oracle Virtualbox. >>>> This is the last log output I can find if it means anything to you:
Not a clue. Have I mentioned I hate VMs? Sometimes they're good for a
laugh. Some sites with high availability systems respond to Linux like a >>> vampire to garlic. What they don't know is under all those Server 20xx
VMs, Redhat and kvm is holding the whole mess together.
I use them to be able to run Linux shit on my grown up Windows systems.
Do you have 10 or 11?
I am running wsl with Ubuntu on one machine and
Kali on another. wsl has come a long way and there now is a X server
included that integrates nicely. I've got a dedicate Linux box too but
for some things wsl works well.
I did have problems on the laptop where the system would crash when the display went to sleep. I don't think HyperV played well with the Acer drivers. One or the other may have been fixed by now but I didn't
reinstall wsl after removing it.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:36:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:57 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >>
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean
break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of
market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good
emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the
emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software >>>>> that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that
most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the >>>> rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally >>>> be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large >>>> cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually >>>> the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
Yes, but never mind the details, Apple did get it to work very well,
and maintained it for about ten years, then ceased to support it. By
then, most of those critical apps wee no longer critical, or had been
killed off by something else.
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Well I've never been accused of being arty, but OK.
But for really critical stuff, nobody uses Windows for sure. It's
Linux all the way, often controlling bespoke FPGA hardware.
Why no Windows? Well, the US Navy tried, in the SmartShip IT-21
program, for which the USS Yorktown was the testbed.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)>
Long story short, someone in the engine room entered a bad value of an
input form for pump performance recording, and crashed the Windows
computer system and all associated shipwide networks. The ship was
dead in the water, without propulsion, steering, or weapons. What
could go wrong?
Fortunately they were far from land, and not in a battle, so they
didn't get sunk or blunder into anything. They had to reboot the
entire ship. This all took about three hours.
That was the end of SmartShip - only the name survived, used only for administrative activities, isolated from all tactical networks.
UNIX was the follow-on answer, but the various big platform vendors
became too expensive and too inflexible, and over time everything
migrated to Linux, mostly Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), which IBM subsequently acquired. Wonder if IBM has learned anything since DoD abandoned AIX.
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:24:58 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1ksavwqomvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:11:05 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:42:23 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kr54xtqmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Some people backup to optical just in case.
http://panteltje.com/pub/CD_box_binnenkant_IXIMG_0549.JPG
Optical media last very very long in the dark, I also used some M_Discs >>>>> that box hold a thousand CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, Blu-ray discs and is full.
Now I backup daily to 3 TB USB drives... two, in case I drop one.
Just how much data have you got?! That is a lot of disks.
I dunno, many are CD-R from many many years ago, with all sort of things, even movies.
For more recent data this is sda2 from a Raspberry Pi4 with 4 GB RAM:
/dev/sda2 3844510712 3239539624 409610424 89% /mnt/sda2
so 89 % of a 4 TB Toshiba USB harddisk
That includes images of SDcard, some distros, what not.
Logs.. I have radiation logs that go back years for example.
Backups of the website... smartphone, legal stuff, financial stuff, all code I wrote,
security videos, all emails of the last 20 years or so, pictures I took and videos I made,
many Usenet postings I saved back over the last 20 years, easy with the newsreader I wrote
it has a search function, etc etc.., datasheets...
But even Linux 'locate' will find things in seconds.
Security videos can be huge, I have two 4K cameras running continuously, but I have a core of a Ryzen 9 3900XT allocated to each
which only records when it sees something suspicious. I've even used it to locate my neighbour's cat, which she found
confusing. But it auto deletes after a month unless I save it.
Yes, huge, but encoded,
soem run at lower frame-rate,
yes I keep several weeks.
Been playing with the Pimoroni IR camera module on Raspberry, low resolution but detects body heat.
That has now passed the 'several weeks 24/7 on' test.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#xflir
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:43:21 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:24:53 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they'veDo you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
No, we don't have to. We do because we can. :-P
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:24:53 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpgDo you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 01:50:47 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 03:45 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:24:59 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/17/2022 01:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:55:20 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:
On 04/17/2022 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:08:45 +0100, Scott Lurndal
<scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Apple's processor is an ARM so it's going to be more efficient >>>>>>>>>> than
intels X86
When comparing RISC to CISC you have to be careful to specify >>>>>>>>> what
area
you're comparing for efficiency. Power consumption has been where >>>>>>>>> RISC
has shone. It took a while for compilers to catch up to create >>>>>>>>> optimized
code. Code size is necessarily greater, hence more RAM.
Come now, risc processors have been used for three decades now, >>>>>>>> the compiler guys are really really good at generating quality >>>>>>>> code
for all of them.
No modern programmer is good at anything, especially tight coding. >>>>>>> Give
them a computer from the 80s and they'd have trouble writing a
calculator program to fit into 64KB.
One product I worked on was a handheld pH / ion concentration meter >>>>>> that
used an 8049.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48
I did the pH meter and another programmer did the ion concentration. >>>>>> Reading the electrode value from the A/D and driving the user
interface
was the same for both products but the math was sufficiently
different
that 2K wasn't enough to do both.
There was also a benchtop meter/auto-titrator that used a Z-80. 64K >>>>>> was
a real luxury.
In reply to Scott Lurndal, yeah the compiler guys have gotten really >>>>>> good after 3 decades...
I have a mouse driver that's 130MB. WTF? That's over 3 times the
size
of the hard disk on a PC I had in 1991. What does the mouse driver
do?
Watch for left and right and a few button presses? In 1991 I think
it
was 30KB. 4000 times less efficient programming, we've really come
far.
I looked at Java back in the late '90s. It wasn't too bad but as it
grew
performance went into the toilet. The answer was 'you need a newer,
faster machine.'
Over twenty years of hardware improvements and Java apps still suck.
I bought an Osborne 1 in '81. It was a CP/M machine and came with 2
single side, single density 5 1/4" floppy drives for a massive 90 KB
each. I later sent it back for the DD upgrade. Some how 90KB was
enough
to hold Wordstar, SuperCalc, or the BDS C compiler executables which
happily ran in 64KB of RAM.
Somehow Turbo Pascal managed to compile so fast that at first I
thought
it was broken compared to BDS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
Excellent movie but relevant how?
The film shows how people gradually became stupider. The same is
happening with programmers because they don't have to fit their programs
into tight RAM allocations any more.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
In article <op.1kts38vgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>,
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >> >> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
I have several RTL_SDR sticks now in the raspis, some are 1 ppm
One reads my outside weather station :-)
One reads airplane data using dump1090 and logs and displays it:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xgpspc_5_planes.gif
In article <op.1kts38vgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>,
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >> >> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
On 2022-04-18, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <op.1kts38vgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>,
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>> >> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get >>> >> home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>> >> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
The company I worked for prior to my recent retirement made a
wire-wrapped supercomputer in the 1980s. We sold one into China, and
they took it apart and copied it. We started getting support requests
for computers we'd never manufactured.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you
can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
On 2022-04-18, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <op.1kts38vgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>,
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>>>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get >>>>> home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>>>> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
The company I worked for prior to my recent retirement made a
wire-wrapped supercomputer in the 1980s. We sold one into China, and
they took it apart and copied it. We started getting support requests
for computers we'd never manufactured.
On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:56:22 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kts38vgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>>> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Oh I dunno, I did wirewrap a complete 19 inch rack with eurocards long ago, Had some RF too, well hundreds of kHz ..
This was also fun:
http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_top.jpg
http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_bottom.jpg
and this more recent:
http://panteltje.com/pub/flight_controller_top_IMG_5866.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/flight_controller_bottom_IMG_5864.JPG
or this from long ago:
http://www.panteltje.com/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_wiring_img_1756.jpg
http://panteltje.com/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_inside2_img_1757.jpg
peeseebees? not me.
On 04/18/2022 01:02 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
I've still got the tools and an assortment of wirewrap sockets but
haven't done a project in a long time. I got away from hardware when
surface mount came in. Even with magnifiers I don't have the vision to
deal with that anymore.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:38:34 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
they can do
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half
and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
There is a problem with AMD. Their implementation of VT-D
(virtualization to use two OSes on one CPU) sux. It slows the system
right down and it's hard to interact with it.
On 04/18/2022 08:56 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you
can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>>> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
You assume there is a circuit board to solder anything to. Wirewrap is
great for prototyping before you bother with a board. Of course there's
the dead bug method.
https://www.instructables.com/Dead-Bug-Prototyping-and-Freeform-Electronics/
Whoever did the dead bug arduino has a lot of time on his hands.
On 04/18/2022 05:44 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:38:34 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/16/2022 05:20 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-04-16, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:31:06 +0100, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:52:08 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 11:35, RJH wrote:
On 16 Apr 2022 at 11:06:34 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"That by itself, says nothing
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/04/2022 21:28, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2022-04-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:They are completely right about computers. They cant be clocked any >>>>>>>>> faster, they cant be made to work with much less power - all >>>>>>>>> they can do
BEVs are very mature technology. There is only a bit left to >>>>>>>>>>> improve.
Like aircraft and cars in general.
Yeah, they keep saying that about computers, too. And they're >>>>>>>>>> constantly proved wrong.
is add more cores.
The new(ish) Apple processors use a fraction (between and half >>>>>>>> and a third) of
the power used by an Intel equivalent.
A Z80 uses way less power than a pentium
A motorcycle uses way less power than a ferrari.
It says everything. Less power for the same load - google Apple M1
I prefer things designed for adults.
I very much doubt Apple can beat Intel anyway.
It's not Apple vs Intel it's TSMC vs Intel.
True, but possibly not the way you meant it. AMD is partnered with TSMC
and the Zen 3+ design on TSMC 6nm capabilities is currently kicking
Intel ass.
There is a problem with AMD. Their implementation of VT-D
(virtualization to use two OSes on one CPU) sux. It slows the system
right down and it's hard to interact with it.
That's not a general problem. There was a period with the early Athlons
that didn't implement some of the new Intel instructions but I've leaned towards AMD with no problem.
Mine appear to be limited by the CPU speed, one core is all the program will allocate per camera, so I only get 15 fps max.
Usually 7 fps as the computer is very busy running Boinc.
yes I keep several weeks.
Been playing with the Pimoroni IR camera module on Raspberry, low resolution but detects body heat.
That has now passed the 'several weeks 24/7 on' test.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#xflir
I got some cheap shit from China. It's never the resolution advertised, but that means they'll panic and give you 50% off the
already low price.
On 04/18/2022 05:44 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:38:34 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
There is a problem with AMD. Their implementation of VT-D
(virtualization to use two OSes on one CPU) sux. It slows the system
right down and it's hard to interact with it.
That's not a general problem. There was a period with the early Athlons
that didn't implement some of the new Intel instructions but I've leaned >towards AMD with no problem.
It wasn't AMD but I recall one processor that ran CP/M and DOS, both
rather poorly. National maybe?
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you
can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is
C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
11 of course. Why not take it as it's free? I bypassed the stupid TPM requirement (which only 1 of my 7 machines passed) using something
called Rufus.
Apparently HyperV is an even bigger piece of shite than VT-X and Oracle Virtualbox.
There's a coal hauling train goes past me as there's a power station 10
miles down the road. The rails can't handle the weight, they're
constantly repairing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmTnWxpcEQ
Someone has put a rude comment under there!
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
Do you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
That was the Milwaukee Road terminal but they went under in the '70s.
You can't see it but in the foreground the rails have been ripped up and
turned into a bike/pedestrian trail.
Yeah we have one of those. Nice smooth tarmac. I often startle people
by going for a run barefoot along it. It's perfect for toughening the
soles, hard but no sharp things. I also took a Scarlet Macaw with me
one time (on a lead long enough for her to fly around), that amused
everyone.
Funny, we had a courier service called Amtrak. They went bust.
Russia has loads of stuff to sell, buy that. They'll give you a good
price.
On 04/18/2022 01:02 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working
Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
I've still got the tools and an assortment of wirewrap sockets but
haven't done a project in a long time. I got away from hardware when
surface mount came in. Even with magnifiers I don't have the vision to
deal with that anymore.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:40:01 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/18/2022 01:02 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you
can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is
C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>>> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
I've still got the tools and an assortment of wirewrap sockets but
haven't done a project in a long time. I got away from hardware when
surface mount came in. Even with magnifiers I don't have the vision to
deal with that anymore.
I astonished someone at work when he was trying to read a surface mount resistor value through a magnifying glass. I glanced at it without one
and told him the value. Apparently I have the eyesight and the hearing
of a 16 year old.
Unfortunately not the body.
https://www.instructables.com/Dead-Bug-Prototyping-and-Freeform-Electronics/
Whoever did the dead bug arduino has a lot of time on his hands.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 16:00:07 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:43:21 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:24:53 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they'veDo you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
No, we don't have to. We do because we can. :-PIt achieves nothing apart from making you like like egotistical idiots, you're the laughing stock of the world.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <op.1kts3...@ryzen.lan>,
Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bow...@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adk...@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get >> >> home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >> >> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two things touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's the way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:36:21 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:36:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:57 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >>>
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean >>>>>> break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of >>>>>> market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good >>>>>> emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself
included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the >>>>>> emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software >>>>>> that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that >>>>>> most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's
exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the >>>>> rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally >>>>> be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large >>>>> cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually >>>>> the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k
and then Power code in the Intel years.
Yes, but never mind the details, Apple did get it to work very well,
and maintained it for about ten years, then ceased to support it. By
then, most of those critical apps wee no longer critical, or had been
killed off by something else.
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Well I've never been accused of being arty, but OK.
But for really critical stuff, nobody uses Windows for sure. It's
Linux all the way, often controlling bespoke FPGA hardware.
Why no Windows? Well, the US Navy tried, in the SmartShip IT-21
program, for which the USS Yorktown was the testbed.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)>
Long story short, someone in the engine room entered a bad value of an
input form for pump performance recording, and crashed the Windows
computer system and all associated shipwide networks. The ship was
dead in the water, without propulsion, steering, or weapons. What
could go wrong?
Fortunately they were far from land, and not in a battle, so they
didn't get sunk or blunder into anything. They had to reboot the
entire ship. This all took about three hours.
That was the end of SmartShip - only the name survived, used only for
administrative activities, isolated from all tactical networks.
UNIX was the follow-on answer, but the various big platform vendors
became too expensive and too inflexible, and over time everything
migrated to Linux, mostly Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), which IBM
subsequently acquired. Wonder if IBM has learned anything since DoD
abandoned AIX.
Windows 3 decades ago is not equal to Windows today.
Where can I buy a large analogue meter? Big enough to show to a room of people, about a foot long pointer.I have noticed that Ebay has everything. If you find the correct name
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On 04/18/2022 05:44 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 01:38:34 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
There is a problem with AMD. Their implementation of VT-D
(virtualization to use two OSes on one CPU) sux. It slows the system
right down and it's hard to interact with it.
Nonsense.
On 04/18/2022 08:54 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
11 of course. Why not take it as it's free? I bypassed the stupid TPM
requirement (which only 1 of my 7 machines passed) using something
called Rufus.
I've used rufus to create bootable USB sticks for Linux distros. Same rufus?
Apparently HyperV is an even bigger piece of shite than VT-X and Oracle
Virtualbox.
It's not great. They've been improving it supposedly.
On 04/18/2022 06:43 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
There's a coal hauling train goes past me as there's a power station 10
miles down the road. The rails can't handle the weight, they're
constantly repairing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmTnWxpcEQ
Someone has put a rude comment under there!
The coal trains aren't popular. There still are some surface level
crossings where you can wait forever for the train to pass.
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
Do you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
Just about...
That was the Milwaukee Road terminal but they went under in the '70s.
You can't see it but in the foreground the rails have been ripped up and >>> turned into a bike/pedestrian trail.
Yeah we have one of those. Nice smooth tarmac. I often startle people
by going for a run barefoot along it. It's perfect for toughening the
soles, hard but no sharp things. I also took a Scarlet Macaw with me
one time (on a lead long enough for her to fly around), that amused
everyone.
This one is paved in the downtown area but east of town it's gravel but fairly smooth.
Funny, we had a courier service called Amtrak. They went bust.
Amtrak has been on life support for a long time. I briefly worked for
Penn Central when they were going under. You had to have money in your account before the bank would cash your paycheck.
Amtrak took them over
with all the problems. The tracks were a mess as was the rolling stock.
There were a number of the '50s streamliner engines that were scrapped because nobody wanted to work on them.
Amtrak did eventually get the tracks back in shape but only on the
eastern corridor.
Russia has loads of stuff to sell, buy that. They'll give you a good
price.
The US would rather cut its nose off to spite its face.
On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:58:45 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kts77xamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Mine appear to be limited by the CPU speed, one core is all the program will allocate per camera, so I only get 15 fps max.
Usually 7 fps as the computer is very busy running Boinc.
yes I keep several weeks.
Been playing with the Pimoroni IR camera module on Raspberry, low resolution but detects body heat.
That has now passed the 'several weeks 24/7 on' test.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#xflir
I got some cheap shit from China. It's never the resolution advertised, but that means they'll panic and give you 50% off the
already low price.
4 security cams go into one of those 4 channel security recorders from China Works very well, it does not record anything, I take the output via the LAN and re-encode it with ffmpeg,
The intersting things is that one Raspberry Pi 4 with 4 GB memory records those 4 cams, plus 2 other IP cameras plus 2 audio tracks and the
procesor load is still very low,
plays background mp3 music without hickups at the same time!
and I can browse the web with chromium at the same time.
Raspi is a quad core.
Tasks: 207 total, 1 running, 206 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
%Cpu(s): 6.7 us, 4.2 sy, 2.7 ni, 85.9 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.5 si, 0.0 st
MiB Mem : 3906.0 total, 2494.6 free, 443.2 used, 968.3 buff/cache MiB Swap: 100.0 total, 100.0 free, 0.0 used. 3268.2 avail Mem
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 32764 root 25 5 33144 12040 2412 S 8.2 0.3 35:19.57 xgpspc_mon
513 root 20 0 222132 40308 24808 S 7.6 1.0 34:25.54 ffmpeg 25093 root 20 0 222140 40160 24668 S 5.9 1.0 42:42.68 ffmpeg
512 root 20 0 16300 11504 3640 S 5.6 0.3 31:34.56 mcamip 25092 root 20 0 16300 11316 3468 S 5.6 0.3 40:53.77 mcamip2 32765 root 25 5 222044 40496 24724 S 3.6 1.0 15:52.81 ffmpeg 25786 root 20 0 148216 30692 23816 S 2.3 0.8 0:43.54 ffmpeg 25783 root 20 0 148348 31372 24184 S 1.6 0.8 0:42.82 ffmpeg 25784 root 20 0 147904 30724 23832 S 1.6 0.8 0:43.37 ffmpeg 25785 root 20 0 147912 31064 24172 S 1.6 0.8 0:42.52 ffmpeg 12871 root 20 0 4820 3316 2872 S 1.3 0.1 4:24.67 mpg123 25090 root 20 0 9764 3800 3396 S 1.3 0.1 7:01.93 wget2 25091 root 20 0 179936 29736 23628 S 1.3 0.7 6:35.35 ffmpeg
raspi95: /mnt/sda2/security/video # temperature
temp=48.0'C
This raspi has alu housing and a fan
result:
In crontab new instances are started at different times with new serial number.
rw-r--r-- 1 root root 577241088 Apr 18 18:49 bp1.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 853278720 Apr 18 18:49 camera6-1809.mp2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1194590208 Apr 18 18:49 mcam-2.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 954728448 Apr 18 18:49 camera6-1809.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 574967920 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_4_2822.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 575615956 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_3_154.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 574837824 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_1_2989.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 576117352 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_2_3011.ts
On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:40:01 -0600) it happened rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc5iivFota6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/18/2022 01:02 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adkFbplkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C# >>>> and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >>>> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
I've still got the tools and an assortment of wirewrap sockets but
haven't done a project in a long time. I got away from hardware when
surface mount came in. Even with magnifiers I don't have the vision to
deal with that anymore.
Surface mount is easy on those boards with the round isles.
I have reading glasses from the local drugstore
and for the small SMDs I put 2 reading glasses on top of each other.
Strength adds up.
You do need to be a bit closer to what you are doing then.
So far no problems.
Have a small fan blow the smoke away from you..
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote: >>
In article <op.1kts3...@ryzen.lan>,Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two things touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's the way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.
Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened rbowman
<bow...@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adk...@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language 'python' or so?
I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when I get >> >> >> home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a working >> >> >> Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
It is one thing to be ignorant. It is another to publicly declare your ignorance for all to see.
It doesn't take much effort at all for you to do a little research and find that wirewrap is actually a highly reliable technique if done according to the guidelines.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:53:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:36:21 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >>
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:36:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:57 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyway, within the x86 architecture they keep adding instructions etc. Can't it be improved out of the mess?Not without giving up un backward compatibility and making a clean >>>>>>> break. Which has been against Intel theology for a long time.
Apple went through the same thing, and eventually hired a bunch of >>>>>>> market research firms to run focus groups sessions...
The question to be answered was if there had to
be a Motorola processor on the motherboard, or would a really good >>>>>>> emulator suffice. The vast majority of those in the focus (myself >>>>>>> included) said that no Motorola hardware was needed, so long as the >>>>>>> emulation was in fact that good, because we all had essential software >>>>>>> that could not be replaced for one reason or another. I assume that >>>>>>> most of the focus groups came to the same answer, because that's >>>>>>> exactly what happened.
Joe Gwinn
It was a stretch, though; there was a 'toolbox' runtime library, and the >>>>>> rewrite of that was probably the first need, because it would normally >>>>>> be cached, and a two-stage emulator-plus-toolbox requirement used
a LOT of cache. Apple had some PowerPC processors made with extra-large
cache in the early days of the 68k-to-Power changeover, and eventually >>>>>> the OS'es became incompatible as emulations were dropped, first 68k >>>>>> and then Power code in the Intel years.
Yes, but never mind the details, Apple did get it to work very well, >>>>> and maintained it for about ten years, then ceased to support it. By >>>>> then, most of those critical apps wee no longer critical, or had been >>>>> killed off by something else.
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Well I've never been accused of being arty, but OK.
But for really critical stuff, nobody uses Windows for sure. It's
Linux all the way, often controlling bespoke FPGA hardware.
Why no Windows? Well, the US Navy tried, in the SmartShip IT-21
program, for which the USS Yorktown was the testbed.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)>
Long story short, someone in the engine room entered a bad value of an
input form for pump performance recording, and crashed the Windows
computer system and all associated shipwide networks. The ship was
dead in the water, without propulsion, steering, or weapons. What
could go wrong?
Fortunately they were far from land, and not in a battle, so they
didn't get sunk or blunder into anything. They had to reboot the
entire ship. This all took about three hours.
That was the end of SmartShip - only the name survived, used only for
administrative activities, isolated from all tactical networks.
UNIX was the follow-on answer, but the various big platform vendors
became too expensive and too inflexible, and over time everything
migrated to Linux, mostly Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), which IBM
subsequently acquired. Wonder if IBM has learned anything since DoD
abandoned AIX.
Windows 3 decades ago is not equal to Windows today.
True, but even today's Windows is not suited to anything truly mission critical, like a ships weapon systems.
A ships self-defense system
(defending against Mach 0.8 cruise missiles like the Neptunes recently
used to sink the Moskva in the Black Sea) is instructive: From
appearance (at the horizon about 20 miles away) to impact is about 20 seconds. Use them wisely.
And by the way, if the self-defense missile isn't moving on the launch
rails in maybe 5 seconds, intercept becomes impossible, so pray that
the CIWS succeeds.
Nor does Microsoft claim otherwise, even today.
It's also too late. All the Navy folk and consultants who sold IT-21
to the Brass suffered severe career damage, many succumbing to wounds received in The Yorktown Incident. And the survivors were badly
scalded.
It will take more decades than Windows will last for the Navy to get
over its Windows aversion.
And Linux does work, so there is little pressure.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:04:45 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/18/2022 06:43 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
There's a coal hauling train goes past me as there's a power station 10
miles down the road. The rails can't handle the weight, they're
constantly repairing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmTnWxpcEQ
Someone has put a rude comment under there!
The coal trains aren't popular. There still are some surface level
crossings where you can wait forever for the train to pass.
Isn't forever more like 30 seconds?
No big deal.
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've
been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
Do you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
Just about...
Why?
On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:24:17 +1000, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:04:45 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
On 04/18/2022 06:43 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
There's a coal hauling train goes past me as there's a power station 10 >>> miles down the road. The rails can't handle the weight, they're
constantly repairing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmTnWxpcEQ
Someone has put a rude comment under there!
The coal trains aren't popular. There still are some surface level
crossings where you can wait forever for the train to pass.
Isn't forever more like 30 seconds?Not with our 5 mile long iron ore driverless trains.
Longest and heaviest in the entire world.
No big deal.
Still no big deal, but a bit of a nuisance.
No passengers, no tables. We have two passenger terminals but they've >>>> been recycled to other uses.
https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/hq-bcheadquarters2015.jpg
Do you guys have to put a fucking flag everywhere?
Just about...
Why?More rabid rightists than most.
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 10:20:33 AM UTC+10, whit3rd wrote:the Xerox PARC Alto machines (of which there were a couple of thousand, although it was never marketed).
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 3:36:35 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Nobody does anything critical with a Mac anyway. They're just for arty folk.
Not an uncommon view, but inaccurate. Excel, for example, started lifeIsn't Excel just a Windows steal of Viscalc? Lotus 1-2-3 came next, so Excel is more a Chinese copy of that that exploited the Widows graphical user interface - and of course the MacIntosh had the first commercial graphical user interface, copied from
as macintosh-only code; the Windows version was an afterthought, ported over.
Visicalc was the killer application for the original Apple 2 computer. Dan Flystra made a lot of money out of it - I had an acquaintance at MIT at the time, who had run into Flystra who was also active in starting up Byte (which was how I got to befoundation subscriber to the magazine).
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:36 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two things touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's the way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.
It is one thing to be ignorant. It is another to publicly declare your ignorance for all to see.
It doesn't take much effort at all for you to do a little research and find that wirewrap is actually a highly reliable technique if done according to the guidelines.Touching things cannot be as good as welded together things.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 19:03:22 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:53:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:36:21 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote: >>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:36:26 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:57 +0100, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:12:09 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:55:55 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
It will take more decades than Windows will last for the Navy to get
over its Windows aversion.
And Linux does work, so there is little pressure.
Only if you can understand it, and you need really thick glasses and a weird haircut to do so.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:36 +0100, Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:
In article <op.1kts3...@ryzen.lan>,<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
rbowman
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened
'python' or so?<bow...@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adk...@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot
C/C++/C#http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is
I getand increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when
workinghome I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a
Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two thingsZ80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's the
way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.
It is one thing to be ignorant. It is another to publicly declare
your ignorance for all to see.
It doesn't take much effort at all for you to do a little research and
find that wirewrap is actually a highly reliable technique if done
according to the guidelines.
Touching things cannot be as good as welded together things.
On 18/04/2022 21:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:36 +0100, Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote: >>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:
In article <op.1kts3...@ryzen.lan>,<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
rbowman
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened
'python' or so?<bow...@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adk...@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
workingI like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot >>> you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is >>> C/C++/C#
and increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when >>> I get
home I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a
Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two things >>> touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's theZ80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.
It is one thing to be ignorant. It is another to publicly declare
your ignorance for all to see.
It doesn't take much effort at all for you to do a little research and
find that wirewrap is actually a highly reliable technique if done
according to the guidelines.
Touching things cannot be as good as welded together things.Except wire wrap isn't just touching. The posts are square and the wire wrapped under tension so the post corners bite deeply into the wire and
the torque built up in the post maintains constant high pressure gas
tight cold weld contacts. Dozens of them all in parallel. Wire wrapping
can be more reliable than soldering over temperature cycling. Voyager
and Apollo used a lot of wire wrap. And it is very quick - I used to
wire wrap prototypes faster than I could solder and needs no defluxing after.
Surely reading glasses are not the same as magnifying glasses?
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:59:54 +0100, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:58:45 +0100) it happened "Commander
Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kts77xamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Mine appear to be limited by the CPU speed, one core is all the program will allocate per camera, so I only get 15 fps max.
Usually 7 fps as the computer is very busy running Boinc.
yes I keep several weeks.
Been playing with the Pimoroni IR camera module on Raspberry, low resolution but detects body heat.
That has now passed the 'several weeks 24/7 on' test.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#xflir
I got some cheap shit from China. It's never the resolution advertised, but that means they'll panic and give you 50% off
the
already low price.
4 security cams go into one of those 4 channel security recorders from China >> Works very well, it does not record anything, I take the output via the LAN and re-encode it with ffmpeg,
How complicated, mine are just USB cams, plug straight into the PC and it records.
The intersting things is that one Raspberry Pi 4 with 4 GB memory records
those 4 cams, plus 2 other IP cameras plus 2 audio tracks and the
procesor load is still very low,
plays background mp3 music without hickups at the same time!
and I can browse the web with chromium at the same time.
Raspi is a quad core.
Tasks: 207 total, 1 running, 206 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
%Cpu(s): 6.7 us, 4.2 sy, 2.7 ni, 85.9 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.5 si, 0.0 st
MiB Mem : 3906.0 total, 2494.6 free, 443.2 used, 968.3 buff/cache >> MiB Swap: 100.0 total, 100.0 free, 0.0 used. 3268.2 avail Mem >>
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND >> 32764 root 25 5 33144 12040 2412 S 8.2 0.3 35:19.57 xgpspc_mon
513 root 20 0 222132 40308 24808 S 7.6 1.0 34:25.54 ffmpeg >> 25093 root 20 0 222140 40160 24668 S 5.9 1.0 42:42.68 ffmpeg >> 512 root 20 0 16300 11504 3640 S 5.6 0.3 31:34.56 mcamip >> 25092 root 20 0 16300 11316 3468 S 5.6 0.3 40:53.77 mcamip2 >> 32765 root 25 5 222044 40496 24724 S 3.6 1.0 15:52.81 ffmpeg >> 25786 root 20 0 148216 30692 23816 S 2.3 0.8 0:43.54 ffmpeg >> 25783 root 20 0 148348 31372 24184 S 1.6 0.8 0:42.82 ffmpeg >> 25784 root 20 0 147904 30724 23832 S 1.6 0.8 0:43.37 ffmpeg >> 25785 root 20 0 147912 31064 24172 S 1.6 0.8 0:42.52 ffmpeg >> 12871 root 20 0 4820 3316 2872 S 1.3 0.1 4:24.67 mpg123 >> 25090 root 20 0 9764 3800 3396 S 1.3 0.1 7:01.93 wget2 >> 25091 root 20 0 179936 29736 23628 S 1.3 0.7 6:35.35 ffmpeg >>
raspi95: /mnt/sda2/security/video # temperature
temp=48.0'C
This raspi has alu housing and a fan
result:
In crontab new instances are started at different times with new serial number.
rw-r--r-- 1 root root 577241088 Apr 18 18:49 bp1.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 853278720 Apr 18 18:49 camera6-1809.mp2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1194590208 Apr 18 18:49 mcam-2.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 954728448 Apr 18 18:49 camera6-1809.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 574967920 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_4_2822.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 575615956 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_3_154.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 574837824 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_1_2989.ts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 576117352 Apr 18 18:49 hcam_2_3011.ts
Uh ok. I'm a human not a geek, you've just posted greek. I use a GUI.
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 1:51:35 AM UTC-4, erichp...@hotmail.com wrote:braking. I've seen that happen on wire wrap when the wire was not inserted in the tool properly. The whole thing is pretty heavy too. I've got an old wire wrap board from one of the big name prototype board makers (I can't recall the name). It has a
On 18/04/2022 21:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:36 +0100, RickyExcept wire wrap isn't just touching. The posts are square and the wire
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:02:18 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> >>>>> wrote:
In article <op.1kts3...@ryzen.lan>,<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:02:11 +0100, Jan Panteltje
rbowman
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:22 -0600) it happened
'python' or so?<bow...@montana.com> wrote in <jc3adk...@mid.individual.net>:
On 04/17/2022 10:51 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What's a modern programmer? One that uses that snake language
you can do with 256 bytes RAM and 16 kB ROM.I like to code in asm for Microchip PIC micros, there is a lot
C/C++/C#http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
While I prefer the AVR series I definitely agree. My day job is
I getand increasingly JavaScript with a new Angular product but when
workinghome I like to keep in simple like when I could wire-wrap up a
Which is why they went wrong so often. Yeah lets just hope two things >>>>> touching with no solder or pressure just happen to conduct. It's the >>>>> way kids make stuff. Twist the wires together and hope for the best.Z80 board.
Have dot doen wirewrap in ages...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/ >>>>>>>>
soldering....
:-)
Isn't wirewrap what amateurs do that can't solder?
Wirewrap used to be the standard for GPO wiring blocks.
It is one thing to be ignorant. It is another to publicly declare
your ignorance for all to see.
It doesn't take much effort at all for you to do a little research and >>>> find that wirewrap is actually a highly reliable technique if done
according to the guidelines.
Touching things cannot be as good as welded together things.
wrapped under tension so the post corners bite deeply into the wire and
the torque built up in the post maintains constant high pressure gas
tight cold weld contacts. Dozens of them all in parallel. Wire wrapping
can be more reliable than soldering over temperature cycling. Voyager
and Apollo used a lot of wire wrap. And it is very quick - I used to
wire wrap prototypes faster than I could solder and needs no defluxing
after.
Are you saying NASA flew wire wrap in space missions? While wire wrap is a solid connection on earth, I would be surprised that it survived the vibration tests. I suppose a couple turns of insulation would prevent the first bite into the wire from
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:40:01 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I've still got the tools and an assortment of wirewrap sockets but
haven't done a project in a long time. I got away from hardware when
surface mount came in. Even with magnifiers I don't have the vision to
deal with that anymore.
I astonished someone at work when he was trying to read a surface mount resistor value through a magnifying glass. I glanced at it without one
and told him the value. Apparently I have the eyesight and the hearing
of a 16 year old. Unfortunately not the body.
On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Apr 2022 21:27:22 +0100) it happened "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in <op.1kt8fwismvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
Surely reading glasses are not the same as magnifying glasses?
Same thing if positive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens
