• For complete diversity of opinion, well off the Western scale

    From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 7 15:49:17 2022
    I came upon the following item on a website devoted to metalworking,
    in a thread that degenerated into squabbling about Ukraine and
    Imperialists and so on.

    I have no idea who Mariia Kravchenko is, or if her translation from
    Russian is accurate. She provides a link to the original Russian
    article, so the Russian speakers on SED can verify the translation.

    Anyway, she claims this to be the position of the Russian Government,
    the Kremlin. Again, I have no idea if this is true or not.

    "What should Russia do with Ukraine?" [Translation of a propaganda
    article by a Russian publication]

    .<https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64>


    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Apr 7 23:45:52 2022
    On 4/7/2022 22:49, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    I came upon the following item on a website devoted to metalworking,
    in a thread that degenerated into squabbling about Ukraine and
    Imperialists and so on.

    I have no idea who Mariia Kravchenko is, or if her translation from
    Russian is accurate. She provides a link to the original Russian
    article, so the Russian speakers on SED can verify the translation.

    Anyway, she claims this to be the position of the Russian Government,
    the Kremlin. Again, I have no idea if this is true or not.

    "What should Russia do with Ukraine?" [Translation of a propaganda
    article by a Russian publication]

    .<https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64>


    Joe Gwinn

    Way too long to read but the general points are consistent with
    what they yell every day, basically repeating the mantra Putin
    is telling over their TV. Complete nonsense of course, but a huge
    part of the Russian population buys into it because this is the
    only "news" they are exposed to.

    There is no "Russian line", it is Putin's line. Russia is not
    an oligarch state, the oligarchs are in fact KGB (or whatever)
    agents assigned to property/wealth while they are all accountable
    to the one in charge in the Kremlin, Putin.
    It is pretty much Sauron and his orks, this is more real than
    people would think.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 7 20:44:46 2022
    On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 23:45:52 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 4/7/2022 22:49, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    I came upon the following item on a website devoted to metalworking,
    in a thread that degenerated into squabbling about Ukraine and
    Imperialists and so on.

    I have no idea who Mariia Kravchenko is, or if her translation from
    Russian is accurate. She provides a link to the original Russian
    article, so the Russian speakers on SED can verify the translation.

    Anyway, she claims this to be the position of the Russian Government,
    the Kremlin. Again, I have no idea if this is true or not.

    "What should Russia do with Ukraine?" [Translation of a propaganda
    article by a Russian publication]

    .<https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64>


    Joe Gwinn

    Way too long to read but the general points are consistent with
    what they yell every day, basically repeating the mantra Putin
    is telling over their TV. Complete nonsense of course, but a huge
    part of the Russian population buys into it because this is the
    only "news" they are exposed to.

    Well, I did skim it, but didn't study it. I gather that it is
    generally accurate than?

    I wonder what will happen when the mothers of Mother Russia notice
    that a lot of their soldier sons never came back. Not to mention the
    ones who did come back, with stories to tell. Which will spread to
    other mothers.

    Nor is the Iron Curtain so impervious as it once was. Back in the
    day, I read the entirety of "The Gulag Archipelago" by Solzhenitsyn.
    He said that Westerners had no idea of the power of little leaks in
    the curtain, such as from Radio Free Europe and Voice of America, and
    the BBC for that matter. I'd venture that this is still true.

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn>


    There is no "Russian line", it is Putin's line. Russia is not
    an oligarch state, the oligarchs are in fact KGB (or whatever)
    agents assigned to property/wealth while they are all accountable
    to the one in charge in the Kremlin, Putin.
    It is pretty much Sauron and his orks, this is more real than
    people would think.

    Oh yeah. I was being diplomatic.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Fri Apr 8 11:55:27 2022
    On 8/4/22 10:44 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    I wonder what will happen when the mothers of Mother Russia notice
    that a lot of their soldier sons never came back.

    A lot of them have been told their sons died in "road accidents".
    Careless drivers, steering into the path of Javelins and Stugna's, and
    into the airspace of Bayraktars.

    Not to mention the
    ones who did come back, with stories to tell. Which will spread to
    other mothers.

    Well yes, but if he brings back a washing machine, perhaps they won't so proudly tell the tale?

    Nor is the Iron Curtain so impervious as it once was. Back in the
    day, I read the entirety of "The Gulag Archipelago" by Solzhenitsyn.

    Excellent and astonishing work. He rewrote it several times from memory,
    as the jailers kept finding his secret drafts. He must have had an
    incredible memory.

    CH.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Fri Apr 8 05:20:10 2022
    On 4/8/2022 3:44, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 23:45:52 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 4/7/2022 22:49, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    I came upon the following item on a website devoted to metalworking,
    in a thread that degenerated into squabbling about Ukraine and
    Imperialists and so on.

    I have no idea who Mariia Kravchenko is, or if her translation from
    Russian is accurate. She provides a link to the original Russian
    article, so the Russian speakers on SED can verify the translation.

    Anyway, she claims this to be the position of the Russian Government,
    the Kremlin. Again, I have no idea if this is true or not.

    "What should Russia do with Ukraine?" [Translation of a propaganda
    article by a Russian publication]

    .<https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64>


    Joe Gwinn

    Way too long to read but the general points are consistent with
    what they yell every day, basically repeating the mantra Putin
    is telling over their TV. Complete nonsense of course, but a huge
    part of the Russian population buys into it because this is the
    only "news" they are exposed to.

    Well, I did skim it, but didn't study it. I gather that it is
    generally accurate than?

    I wonder what will happen when the mothers of Mother Russia notice
    that a lot of their soldier sons never came back. Not to mention the
    ones who did come back, with stories to tell. Which will spread to
    other mothers.

    Nothing of any real significance. They will grieve and comply.
    Nothing they can do about it.
    The mentality is quite different there. Some of it has spread here
    (Bulgaria) during the soviet time so I know it all too well (was
    feeling a foreigner since I was a kid in the country I was born and
    raised in because of it). To try to explain it by example, in their
    army their officers carry only a pistol in combat. Why? Because their
    job is to stay behind the back of the truly armed marines and if
    someone of the latter decides to turn back to kill him.


    Nor is the Iron Curtain so impervious as it once was. Back in the
    day, I read the entirety of "The Gulag Archipelago" by Solzhenitsyn.
    He said that Westerners had no idea of the power of little leaks in
    the curtain, such as from Radio Free Europe and Voice of America, and
    the BBC for that matter. I'd venture that this is still true.

    Not quite. Nobody uses shortwave radio nowadays - which they jammed
    back in the day, had huge installations, but managed to cover only
    the major cities with these. Nowadays they have to wrestle the Internet
    only and they make impact through the troll farms.
    These flood *everything* repeating what Putin has said, they flood
    not just via facebook and twitter but also in the comment sections of
    news sites, forums etc. And they do it in the language the population
    speaks, so only those whose English is good enough - not many - have
    access to real information. They are quite aggressive in Bulgarian
    language, too - meaning they have ambitions beyond Ukraine.
    And this is cheap to do - just a few people on shifts doing it
    24/7 can really flood a lot for a modest salary.

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  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Fri Apr 8 04:38:58 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 5:44:58 PM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 23:45:52 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:
    On 4/7/2022 22:49, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    ...
    I wonder what will happen when the mothers of Mother Russia notice
    that a lot of their soldier sons never came back. Not to mention the
    ones who did come back, with stories to tell. Which will spread to
    other mothers.

    They are still alive. They are trapped by the Nazi time machine from 1945. Send more troops to rescue them.

    Oh yeah. I was being diplomatic.

    Oh, i am just being sarcastic.

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