• War crimes?

    From John S@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 4 21:14:05 2022
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 5 03:10:49 2022
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a
    FOOL.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Apr 4 20:19:48 2022
    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    No, that's fair game in rules of engagement, even with poison.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a
    FOOL.

    CNN (and others) has their own reporters on the ground, they are certainly not Ukraine's media.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John S on Mon Apr 4 20:19:38 2022
    John S wrote:
    ==========
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder.

    ** GIANT huh ??

    War crimes ARE murders committed during a war.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Apr 4 20:44:19 2022
    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a
    FOOL.

    Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John S on Mon Apr 4 23:24:29 2022
    On 4/4/2022 10:14 PM, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    Putin is an animal, Zelenskyy is even looking more like Fidel Castro
    every day with his beatnik beard and olive drab sweater vests, and Joe
    Biden is out to lunch.

    The longer the world manages to stumble along more-or-less OK despite
    these dopes best efforts to annihilate it becomes ever more evidence of
    a personal God, IMO.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Apr 4 20:52:15 2022
    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:44:23 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a FOOL.
    Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

    It was likely a complete breakdown in command and control. But Putin is still ultimately responsibility for not enforcing rules of his army.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Apr 4 22:52:09 2022
    On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 1:44:23 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Encouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a FOOL.
    Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

    Putin isn't going to be ordering his soldiers to shoot individual civilians. Command structures don't work like that. If he's prosecuted, it will be for not ordering the prosecution of the soldiers responsible, or perhaps tolerating a situation where
    they didn't get prosecuted. But it is his war, so the buck does stop with him.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John S on Tue Apr 5 09:41:28 2022
    On 05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
    it is a war crime.

    What the Russian soldiers did here was murder /and/ a war crime. It is
    both. But it should be investigated and handled as a military crime - a
    war crime - rather than a civilian crime ("normal" murder) since they
    are soldiers.

    And as soldiers obeying orders, and supposedly controlled by superior
    officers, then the responsibility for the crime lies with the soldiers
    on front line pulling the trigger, and upwards through each layer of
    officer and commander. It only stops if you can demonstrate that
    someone was directly disobeying orders, or acting against training and
    standard policy, and the commanding officer could not reasonably be
    expected to know such criminal actions were likely or had happened.

    Thus if some soldier or lower officer goes "rogue" and commits
    atrocities, the higher officer is not to blame. But if that lower
    officer is known to disregard the rules of war, or if the training
    includes criminal methods of subduing a population, or if the higher
    officer said "I don't care how you do it, just take control of the town"
    - then the officer is equally guilty.

    In the case of the Russian military, with its known structure and
    training, and known history in other conflicts, /everyone/ was aware
    that the Geneva Convention is regularly ignored at all levels in the
    Russian military. The responsibility for war crimes goes all the way to
    the top.

    Yes, Putin is responsible for murder. He is /also/ a war criminal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to David Brown Bullshit Artist on Tue Apr 5 01:02:22 2022
    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
    it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Tue Apr 5 07:16:14 2022
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:41:28 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
    it is a war crime.

    What the Russian soldiers did here was murder /and/ a war crime. It is
    both. But it should be investigated and handled as a military crime - a
    war crime - rather than a civilian crime ("normal" murder) since they
    are soldiers.

    And as soldiers obeying orders, and supposedly controlled by superior >officers, then the responsibility for the crime lies with the soldiers
    on front line pulling the trigger, and upwards through each layer of
    officer and commander. It only stops if you can demonstrate that
    someone was directly disobeying orders, or acting against training and >standard policy, and the commanding officer could not reasonably be
    expected to know such criminal actions were likely or had happened.

    Thus if some soldier or lower officer goes "rogue" and commits
    atrocities, the higher officer is not to blame. But if that lower
    officer is known to disregard the rules of war, or if the training
    includes criminal methods of subduing a population, or if the higher
    officer said "I don't care how you do it, just take control of the town"
    - then the officer is equally guilty.

    In the case of the Russian military, with its known structure and
    training, and known history in other conflicts, /everyone/ was aware
    that the Geneva Convention is regularly ignored at all levels in the
    Russian military. The responsibility for war crimes goes all the way to
    the top.

    Yes, Putin is responsible for murder. He is /also/ a war criminal.

    The Russian soldiers seem to be poorly trained and poorly lead and
    poorly fed, in a war that makes no sense. The locals are shooting and
    rocketing and even poisoning them. Some of them are going to get
    crazy.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some degree of terror is policy from the
    very top. Putin is a psychopath.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pallison49@gmail.com on Tue Apr 5 07:37:55 2022
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
    it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to soar2morrow@yahoo.com on Tue Apr 5 19:29:27 2022
    On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:44:19 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime. >>
    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a
    FOOL.

    Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

    The Russian army/ Red Army has a rich tradition of gratuitous
    brutality in war. It goes back at least a hundred years. The army's
    personel are more than capable of indulging in these vile behaviours
    completely autonomously. It's simply their heritage; their culture and tradition. Essentially a calling card if you will.
    If you take on the Russians, you'd better win, for the consequences
    for your civilians if you lose are unthinkable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to edward.ming.lee@gmail.com on Tue Apr 5 19:23:06 2022
    On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
    <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Yada yada yada. Your country has committed "war crimes" during war, too.

    Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

    No, that's fair game in rules of engagement, even with poison.

    Anybody who doesn't question Ukraine's 100% state-controlled media is a
    FOOL.

    CNN (and others) has their own reporters on the ground, they are certainly not Ukraine's media.

    CNN are the Kings of Fake News. They've been caught out countless
    times fabricating fictitious news stories. No one should take
    *anything* they say at face value or place *any* faith in it
    whatsoever. And that also goes for MSNBC, the BBC and almost all the
    others, too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 5 19:33:51 2022
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.
    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
    would not put anything past Zelensky.
    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of
    Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 5 12:06:01 2022
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison >><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>>> > not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
    would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of >Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Tue Apr 5 12:13:49 2022
    On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 11:33:58 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>> > not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.
    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    They would have to be staged with cooperation from Russian soldiers. There are satellite images of mass grave taken during Russian occupation. The media didn't know what they were, but can now be confirmed.

    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
    would not put anything past Zelensky.
    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    It's two men's war, but we know who is the aggressor.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Apr 5 19:37:33 2022
    On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 23:24:29 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    The longer the world manages to stumble along more-or-less OK despite
    these dopes best efforts to annihilate it becomes ever more evidence of
    a personal God, IMO.

    Or the next best thing!

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-force-personnel-ufos-deactivated-nukes/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Apr 5 21:26:04 2022
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison >>><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back
    its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or
    military - it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a >>>>war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you >>>call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I >>would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of >>Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.



    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Apr 5 14:32:03 2022
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    ==================================

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    ** How about will call it Fred ?

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    ** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
    Not one bit simple.....

    ... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to edward.ming.lee@gmail.com on Tue Apr 5 22:38:41 2022
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
    <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 11:33:58 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >> >>> > not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >> >>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.
    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    They would have to be staged with cooperation from Russian soldiers. There are satellite images of mass grave taken during Russian occupation. The media didn't know what they were, but can now be confirmed.

    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
    would not put anything past Zelensky.
    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of
    Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    It's two men's war, but we know who is the aggressor.

    Indeed - Zelensky. Zelensky's the one calling for blood and iron in
    this conflict. And he's been given a global platform from which to do
    so. Does it not strike anyone as odd how this nobody from a fifth-rate
    pseudo state has been able to personally address the parliaments of
    any and every nation (and supranational bodies) with any influence
    whatsoever? This is totally without precedent! His increasingly
    desperate attempts to drag the rest of the world (at the grave risk of
    WW3) into aiding his irrelevant little former province in what would
    otherwise remain a minor localized incursion?
    Seems screamingly obvious to me at least that something much bigger is
    afoot here: the Globalists want to topple Putin and seize control of
    Russia, chiefly to plunder it for its rich mineral resources which
    they and their cronies will make even more money out of than the
    obscene amounts they have already. And thanks to their corrupt buddies
    in the MSM, the credulous public are cheering them on with a will.
    Seems we never learn. Sigh....
    :(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Tue Apr 5 22:50:06 2022
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 12:06:01 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison >>><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>>>> > not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>>>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you >>>call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I >>would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of >>Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Allegedly. We don't know if he himself orders the poisonings or
    they're undertaken by maverick rogue elements who support him.
    The really interesting thing about the poisons is that so few people
    die from them. This is curious indeed. It would be a trivial matter to
    kill those people by means of poisoning if it were desired so to do.
    For example, there is a certain crown ether - I won't say which
    particular one here but the Russians will *certainly* be aware of it -
    which in minute doses is a reliable death-bringer AND is completely untraceable. The death appears to be natural. Unexplained perhaps, but
    natural. Now *that* - or any one of a legion of other such agents - is
    what they *would* use if they intended lethal consequences. So we can
    safely assume they don't. The question remains: why? To fire some kind
    of 'warning shot' across the bows of their opponents? Your guess is as
    good as mine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John S on Tue Apr 5 23:40:01 2022
    John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> wrote in
    news:t2g8jp$jag$1@dont-email.me:

    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back
    its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.


    Yes, and doing it with a military is called a war crime.
    Can you really be that thick skulled?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 5 20:12:03 2022
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:26:04 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison >>>><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back >>>>>> > its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or
    military - it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a >>>>>war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you >>>>call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I >>>would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of >>>Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

    I think maybe he's Russian.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Apr 5 21:35:44 2022
    On Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 1:12:14 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:26:04 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote: >John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison >>>><palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
    David Brown wrote:
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:

    <snip>

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

    I think maybe he's Russian.

    Cursitor Doom does seem to be English. Some of his more persistent idiocies can't come from anywhere else.

    He does regard Russia Today as a reliable news source, but he also believes what he reads in the UK Daily Mail, which is equally silly. He doesn't live in the UK any more, as a tax avoidance device. He's probably a tax evader, but resents the suggestion
    that he might be one.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 11:51:13 2022
    On 06/04/2022 05:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:26:04 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back >>>>>>>> its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or
    military - it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a >>>>>> war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you >>>>> call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I >>>> would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    The BBC is a solid choice for independent and unbiased (except obviously
    for the bias in reporting on things of interest to the UK) news. No
    media is perfect, but state-funded media from free, democratic and open countries work very hard to be free from any perceptible bias.
    Privately owned media can show whatever subjective views their owners
    want. (And of course state media from non-free countries have to say
    whatever the state tells them.)

    I'd also recommend NRK, which is the Norwegian equivalent of the BBC, as
    a solid source of independent information. It has the disadvantage, for non-Norwegians, of being in Norwegian. I don't know of any other English-language equivalent to the BBC - maybe there is something from
    Canada or New Zealand? The American CNN news is, I think, quite
    reliable but you always have to be a little suspicious of hidden agenda
    when it has private owners.

    Al Jazeera is another option for a source that strives to be unbiased,
    and is certainly not pro-west.

    Comparing multiple independent sources is always good.


    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of
    Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

    I think maybe he's Russian.


    I don't think he is Russian, but he certainly seems to believe
    everything Russian propaganda says without question. He also believes
    in many other bizarre conspiracy theories and myths.

    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his
    brains turned to mush from too much RT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 11:37:26 2022
    On 05/04/2022 16:37, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
    not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.


    Legally - in terms of who you can prosecute, which courts can handle it,
    and what punishments can be given, it matters a very great deal whether
    you call it "murder" or a "war crime".

    Morally - in terms of "is this an atrocity or not", then I agree the
    terms don't matter. Actions are what count here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Wed Apr 6 11:57:45 2022
    On 05/04/2022 23:32, Phil Allison wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    ==================================
    >> >
    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>>>> not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    ** How about will call it Fred ?

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    ** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
    Not one bit simple.....


    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>

    The UK, the USA, and every other country involved in WW2 committed
    atrocities - including fire bombing.

    Whether or not you think they were justified as a means to an end, and preventing further deaths or misery, is a different question - and one
    with many opinions. Whether they were "legitimate attacks" or "war
    crimes" is a legal matter.

    But no matter what any country did in the past, it is no excuse or justification for what Russia is doing /now/.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 12:03:53 2022
    On 05/04/2022 16:16, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:41:28 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Yes, Putin is responsible for murder. He is /also/ a war criminal.

    The Russian soldiers seem to be poorly trained and poorly lead and
    poorly fed, in a war that makes no sense. The locals are shooting and rocketing and even poisoning them. Some of them are going to get
    crazy.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some degree of terror is policy from the
    very top. Putin is a psychopath.


    Agreed. There's little doubt that the mass part of the Russian military
    is scared of their own superiors. They are faced with the choice of
    shooting unarmed civilian Ukrainians, or risk being shot themselves by
    their own army for disobeying orders. There's a lot of desertion on the Russian side.

    There is also tight control of the media available to the Russian
    soldiers, and they are fed propaganda about the "evils" they are
    fighting. If they knew what actually happens to Russian soldiers who
    surrender to the Ukrainians (military or civilians) - they get fed,
    clothed, and treated far better than the Russian army treats them -
    they'd surrender in droves.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to LIAR Brown on Wed Apr 6 03:36:17 2022
    David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown wrote:
    ===============================

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>>>> not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    ** How about will call it Fred ?

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    ** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
    Not one bit simple.....

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>


    The UK, the USA, and every other country involved in WW2 committed
    atrocities - including fire bombing.

    ** But none of it was SIMPLE !!!


    Whether or not you think they were justified as a means to an end, and preventing further deaths or misery, is a different question - and one
    with many opinions. Whether they were "legitimate attacks" or "war
    crimes" is a legal matter.


    ** So not something a fucking IDIOT like you should pontificate on.
    =================================================


    But no matter what any country did in the past, it is no excuse or justification for what Russia is doing /now/.


    ** Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    FOAD you vile cunt.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 6 03:31:28 2022
    David FUCKWIT ASSHOLE Brown vomitede:
    ====================================

    Legally -

    ** As if a dead cunt lie YOU has the faintest clue.


    in terms of who you can prosecute, which courts can handle it,
    and what punishments can be given, it matters a very great deal whether
    you call it "murder" or a "war crime".

    ** Bullshit.

    Murder is the top category of war crimes as it pertains to individual acts.





    ....... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Wed Apr 6 07:17:09 2022
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 06/04/2022 05:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:26:04 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
    =========================
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back >>>>>>>>> its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or
    military - it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a >>>>>>> war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.



    ...... Phil

    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you >>>>>> call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.



    They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
    perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I >>>>> would not put anything past Zelensky.

    How about the BBC?

    The BBC is a solid choice for independent and unbiased (except obviously
    for the bias in reporting on things of interest to the UK) news. No
    media is perfect, but state-funded media from free, democratic and open >countries work very hard to be free from any perceptible bias.

    Our NPR/PBS is very lefty biased. Like the NYT, they seem to have a
    list of mandatory adjectives (debunked, false, lying) that they apply
    to statements from certain groups. And are very selective about
    reporting things like climate and corruption. A group discussion, like
    Forum, is usually all lefties who reinforce one another.




    Privately owned media can show whatever subjective views their owners
    want. (And of course state media from non-free countries have to say >whatever the state tells them.)

    I'd also recommend NRK, which is the Norwegian equivalent of the BBC, as
    a solid source of independent information. It has the disadvantage, for >non-Norwegians, of being in Norwegian. I don't know of any other >English-language equivalent to the BBC - maybe there is something from
    Canada or New Zealand? The American CNN news is, I think, quite
    reliable but you always have to be a little suspicious of hidden agenda
    when it has private owners.

    CNN is hard left, hardly objective.


    Al Jazeera is another option for a source that strives to be unbiased,
    and is certainly not pro-west.

    Comparing multiple independent sources is always good.


    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of
    Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

    I think maybe he's Russian.


    I don't think he is Russian, but he certainly seems to believe
    everything Russian propaganda says without question. He also believes
    in many other bizarre conspiracy theories and myths.

    He posted some pics on a russian photo sharing site.


    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his
    brains turned to mush from too much RT.


    It's astonishing how different people are.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pallison49@gmail.com on Wed Apr 6 07:22:06 2022
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 14:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    ==================================

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >> >> > not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >> >> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    ** How about will call it Fred ?

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    ** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
    Not one bit simple.....

    ... Phil

    We signed the Geneva Conventions in 1949, agreeing to protect
    civilians and end Total War.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 07:45:51 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 12:17:22 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 06/04/2022 05:12, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:26:04 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
    David Brown wrote:
    05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:

    I'd also recommend NRK, which is the Norwegian equivalent of the BBC, as
    a solid source of independent information. It has the disadvantage, for >non-Norwegians, of being in Norwegian. I don't know of any other >English-language equivalent to the BBC - maybe there is something from >Canada or New Zealand? The American CNN news is, I think, quite
    reliable but you always have to be a little suspicious of hidden agenda >when it has private owners.

    CNN is hard left, hardly objective.

    CNN looks "hard left" to John Larkin, who expects his news to be hard right. He probably thinks that Fox News is middle of the road.

    More objective observers see CNN as reporting actual news.

    Al Jazeera is another option for a source that strives to be unbiased,
    and is certainly not pro-west.

    Comparing multiple independent sources is always good.

    This *is* "one man's war" as the media keep telling us. But it's of Zelensky's making - not Putin.

    Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn't like.

    Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

    I think maybe he's Russian.

    I don't think he is Russian, but he certainly seems to believe
    everything Russian propaganda says without question. He also believes
    in many other bizarre conspiracy theories and myths.
    He posted some pics on a russian photo sharing site.

    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his brains turned to mush from too much RT.

    The Daily Mail (which Cursitor Doom also seems to take seriously) has been around for a lot longer than Russia Today, and your brains have to be mush if you if you bother to read it. I suspect that Cursitor Doom has always preferred right-wing fantasies
    to actual news, probably because the brains he was born with weren't ever up to much.

    It's astonishing how different people are.

    In Cursitor Doom's case, it is decidedly depressing.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 18:31:00 2022
    On 06/04/2022 16:17, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:


    The BBC is a solid choice for independent and unbiased (except obviously
    for the bias in reporting on things of interest to the UK) news. No
    media is perfect, but state-funded media from free, democratic and open
    countries work very hard to be free from any perceptible bias.

    Our NPR/PBS is very lefty biased. Like the NYT, they seem to have a
    list of mandatory adjectives (debunked, false, lying) that they apply
    to statements from certain groups. And are very selective about
    reporting things like climate and corruption. A group discussion, like
    Forum, is usually all lefties who reinforce one another.


    My experience - looking from the outside, rather than from within the
    USA - is that when what Americans consider "left-wing media" gives a significantly different report from what they consider "right-wing
    media", the "left-wing media" is generally the factually accurate one.
    Part of this is that what many Americans consider "left-wing", the rest
    of the free world considers "centre" or "somewhat right-wing". Your
    politics operate on a different scale to ours, and permeate your society
    in a way that is alien to most Europeans.

    (But maybe we should stick to war crimes in this thread, rather than
    American politics. After all, we are basically agreeing for once and it
    would be a shame to spoil that!)



    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his
    brains turned to mush from too much RT.


    It's astonishing how different people are.


    Yes, absolutely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Wed Apr 6 09:40:26 2022
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:31:00 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 06/04/2022 16:17, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:


    The BBC is a solid choice for independent and unbiased (except obviously >>> for the bias in reporting on things of interest to the UK) news. No
    media is perfect, but state-funded media from free, democratic and open
    countries work very hard to be free from any perceptible bias.

    Our NPR/PBS is very lefty biased. Like the NYT, they seem to have a
    list of mandatory adjectives (debunked, false, lying) that they apply
    to statements from certain groups. And are very selective about
    reporting things like climate and corruption. A group discussion, like
    Forum, is usually all lefties who reinforce one another.


    My experience - looking from the outside, rather than from within the
    USA - is that when what Americans consider "left-wing media" gives a >significantly different report from what they consider "right-wing
    media", the "left-wing media" is generally the factually accurate one.

    I don't see that. I'd like a news source that doesn't select and edit
    any facts to prove their idealogical points.

    The american media, like academia, is overwhelmingly Democrats, and
    their thinking shows it.




    Part of this is that what many Americans consider "left-wing", the rest
    of the free world considers "centre" or "somewhat right-wing". Your
    politics operate on a different scale to ours, and permeate your society
    in a way that is alien to most Europeans.

    Good luck with the next European war.



    (But maybe we should stick to war crimes in this thread, rather than
    American politics. After all, we are basically agreeing for once and it >would be a shame to spoil that!)

    Yikes, a love fest on SED? No way.




    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his
    brains turned to mush from too much RT.


    It's astonishing how different people are.


    Yes, absolutely.


    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Wed Apr 6 18:34:15 2022
    On 06/04/2022 12:36, Phil Allison wrote:
    David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown wrote:
    ===============================

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its >>>>>>> not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed
    combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military - >>>>>> it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" in a war scenario.
    Not one bit simple.
    Unlike YOU sunshine.


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what you
    call it.

    ** How about will call it Fred ?

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    ** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
    Not one bit simple.....

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>


    The UK, the USA, and every other country involved in WW2 committed
    atrocities - including fire bombing.

    ** But none of it was SIMPLE !!!


    Of course not. I don't believe anyone suggested it was.


    Whether or not you think they were justified as a means to an end, and
    preventing further deaths or misery, is a different question - and one
    with many opinions. Whether they were "legitimate attacks" or "war
    crimes" is a legal matter.


    ** So not something a fucking IDIOT like you should pontificate on.
    =================================================


    I assume you don't know what the word "pontificate" means.


    But no matter what any country did in the past, it is no excuse or
    justification for what Russia is doing /now/.


    ** Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    FOAD you vile cunt.



    Do you talk like this in real life? (I am assuming, perhaps
    incorrectly, that you have a real life outside of trying to be as
    unpleasant as possible in Internet groups.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 6 17:00:55 2022
    [...]

    Bullshit!

    Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their >>>>>>>>>> back its not a war crime, it's murder. Putin is a murder.

    When soldiers (according to the official definition of "armed >>>>>>>>> combatants") murder someone from the other side - civilian or >>>>>>>>> military - it is a war crime.


    ** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes "murder" >>>>>>>> in a war scenario.

    [...]


    If you tie someone's hands and shoot them, it doesn't matter what >>>>>>> you call it.

    Same for shelling apartment buildings.

    It's a BIG 'if' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

    Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

    All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
    same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
    Russia.

    [...]

    Tortured and murdered civilians: how Russia’s occupiers have taken Kyiv
    region residents' lives away
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37v1AZ7uBBg
    - UATV English

    Ukraine War: Satellite images show bodies in Bucha streets before Ukrainian takeover
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzBsWcpmZso
    - Sky News

    Satellite pictures challenge Russia’s denials over Ukraine killings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6L4FaP9scw
    - Al Jazeera English

    Satellite images show bodies in Bucha for weeks, rebutting Moscow claim • FRANCE 24 English
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nus8Ac6abk4
    - FRANCE 24 English

    War in Ukraine: New satellite images show what appears to be mass grave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YCtPdEg2g4
    - WFAA

    Traces of the massacre in Bucha reflected on satellite images https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdOruQmBoY
    - Breaking News USA

    Satellite images appear to show Russian atrocities in Bucha, Ukraine - BBC
    News
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvxzX2CIbs
    - BBC News

    Mass graves, civilian bodies discovered in Bucha, Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE32gwNFfbc
    - Washington Post

    Satellite images show bodies in Bucha for weeks, rebutting Moscow claim https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-ibpN0NAI
    - INQUIRER.net

    Satellite Images Contradict Russia's Claims On Bucha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmz88XxI65Y
    - MSNBC

    Satellite images of mass grave site in Bucha contradicts Russian claims | LiveNOW from FOX
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPTZ0Zc2tPk
    - LiveNOW from FOX

    West prepares more sanctions on Russia as Bucha killings in Ukraine shock
    the world | English News
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1HWWUT485Y
    - WION

    Russian fakes about mass murders in Bucha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKwIXPXNEg
    - UATV English

    - and so on


    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 19:17:02 2022
    On 06/04/2022 18:40, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:31:00 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 06/04/2022 16:17, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:


    The BBC is a solid choice for independent and unbiased (except obviously >>>> for the bias in reporting on things of interest to the UK) news. No
    media is perfect, but state-funded media from free, democratic and open >>>> countries work very hard to be free from any perceptible bias.

    Our NPR/PBS is very lefty biased. Like the NYT, they seem to have a
    list of mandatory adjectives (debunked, false, lying) that they apply
    to statements from certain groups. And are very selective about
    reporting things like climate and corruption. A group discussion, like
    Forum, is usually all lefties who reinforce one another.


    My experience - looking from the outside, rather than from within the
    USA - is that when what Americans consider "left-wing media" gives a
    significantly different report from what they consider "right-wing
    media", the "left-wing media" is generally the factually accurate one.

    I don't see that. I'd like a news source that doesn't select and edit
    any facts to prove their idealogical points.


    As someone used to non-political media, I find the whole concept of
    politically biased media bizarre - whatever the bias. News media is
    supposed to report what politicians do and say (and other news,
    obviously) - not take sides as to whether or not they agree with the
    politics.

    The american media, like academia, is overwhelmingly Democrats, and
    their thinking shows it.


    Serious media are staffed by people who are trained to investigate and
    analyse, trying to understand the truth of the major issues of the day.
    Academics are trained to research, investigate, learn, teach, and
    discover. Both groups are - in general - well-educated and intelligent
    people who are aiming to find objective facts and tell people about
    them. (They are still imperfect humans, of course, and there are always
    a few bad apples - but that's the general idea.)

    So what you are saying is that the people who are motivated to find
    objective facts and determine the truth of things, who are intelligent
    enough for the job, and have good education for the purpose - they tend
    to say things that agree a lot more with Democrats than Republicans?

    To me, that sounds like the Democrats have a much firmer grasp of
    reality, while the Republicans are much more likely to make stuff up or
    get things wrong. While being very aware that there are plenty of
    exceptions, this does sound like the general pattern in American politics.




    Part of this is that what many Americans consider "left-wing", the rest
    of the free world considers "centre" or "somewhat right-wing". Your
    politics operate on a different scale to ours, and permeate your society
    in a way that is alien to most Europeans.

    Good luck with the next European war.


    I don't follow you at all here. First, the "next European war" is
    happening right now. Secondly, NATO means our wars are your wars, your
    wars are our wars. We might view American politicians as mostly either
    mildly right-wing or extreme right-wing, but we are still quite clear
    that we are all in the "free, open and democratic" group of countries.

    Maybe you are simply not aware that it is possible to have a society
    where people are not divided into reds and blues.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Wed Apr 6 13:31:14 2022
    On 4/5/2022 2:37 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 23:24:29 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    The longer the world manages to stumble along more-or-less OK despite
    these dopes best efforts to annihilate it becomes ever more evidence of
    a personal God, IMO.

    Or the next best thing!

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-force-personnel-ufos-deactivated-nukes/

    Lol, ET may have had many decades of our TV broadcasts to observe, hard
    to believe they would bother after we spammed them like that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown on Wed Apr 6 16:35:22 2022
    David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown wrote:
    ==========================

    ** So not something a fucking IDIOT like you should pontificate on. =================================================

    I assume you don't know what the word "pontificate" means.

    ** It's what narcissistic pricks like YOU you do in every post.


    FOAD you vile cunt.


    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?
    How often do you get punched in the face?
    Clearly not nearly often enough.

    FOAD you dispicable troll.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 16:58:57 2022
    On Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 9:40:37 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    The american media, like academia, is overwhelmingly Democrats, and
    their thinking shows it.

    Um... media and academia have a commitment to fact, which
    seems to you to be similar to Democrats?

    What, if any, information do you have that isn't in line with media reports
    and academic sources and analysis? If it's all from Republican sources, you're being lied to.

    There's some stinkin' thinkin' in the so-called fringe media. Read the political
    postings here, for examples.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Apr 6 20:42:08 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 2:40:37 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:31:00 +0200, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 06/04/2022 16:17, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:51:13 +0200, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    <snip>

    My experience - looking from the outside, rather than from within the
    USA - is that when what Americans consider "left-wing media" gives a >significantly different report from what they consider "right-wing
    media", the "left-wing media" is generally the factually accurate one.

    I don't see that.

    John Larkin does seem to see what he wants to see, He gets his "facts" about anthropogenic global warming from Anthony Watts' web site, which happens to a climate change denial propaganda source.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts_(blogger)

    I'd like a news source that doesn't select and edit any facts to prove their ideological points.

    In fact he wants one that selects and edits the facts they present to suit his ideological bias.

    The American media, like academia, is overwhelmingly Democrats, and their thinking shows it.

    If you can think, you will notice what is wrong with current state of the American Republican Party - which was astroturfed into oblivion by the Koch brothers funded Tea Party Faction, which left it completely incapable of resisting Donald Trump's
    takeover.

    The American media (or the bits that aren't owned by Rupert Murdoch ) do hire people who can think, and American academia has the same kind of problem. John Larkin doesn't like either of them, because they don't flatter him as enthusiastically as he'd
    like them to (which would involve a lot of lying).

    Part of this is that what many Americans consider "left-wing", the rest
    of the free world considers "centre" or "somewhat right-wing". Your >politics operate on a different scale to ours, and permeate your society >in a way that is alien to most Europeans.

    Good luck with the next European war.

    I'm sure American commercial interests will eventually beat out their political preferences, as they did when they eventually joined in on the Allied side in WW2.
    Henry Ford had liked Hitler a lot, and really didn't want to lose the Ford factory in Germany.

    (But maybe we should stick to war crimes in this thread, rather than American politics. After all, we are basically agreeing for once and it would be a shame to spoil that!)

    Yikes, a love fest on SED? No way.

    Not when John Larkin hasn't got the flattery he craves.

    I don't think he is a troll, however - I think he really has had his brains turned to mush from too much RT.

    It's astonishing how different people are.

    Yes, absolutely.

    John Larkin has a enough silly ideas to be sure of being frequently astonished.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Thu Apr 7 09:32:37 2022
    On 07/04/2022 01:35, Phil Allison wrote:
    David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown wrote:
    ==========================

    ** So not something a fucking IDIOT like you should pontificate on.
    =================================================

    I assume you don't know what the word "pontificate" means.

    ** It's what narcissistic pricks like YOU you do in every post.


    So I am correct - you don't know what it means. Nor, apparently, do you
    know what "narcissistic" means, nor do you read posts.


    FOAD you vile cunt.


    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?
    How often do you get punched in the face?
    Clearly not nearly often enough.

    FOAD you dispicable troll.


    You really should calm down a bit. Maybe get out and meet some people,
    and interact with society. Don't try to talk too much at first - it
    might be too stressful, and you'll start foaming at the mouth and
    ranting and swearing. Stick to "G'day, mate!" and do your best to avoid wishing that everyone else in the world was dead.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Brown on Thu Apr 7 01:36:53 2022
    David FUCKWIT LIAR Brown wrote:
    ==========================

    ** So not something a fucking IDIOT like you should pontificate on.
    =================================================

    I assume you don't know what the word "pontificate" means.

    ** It's what narcissistic pricks like YOU you do in every post.

    So I am correct

    ** Like hell you are - fuckhead.

    Nor, apparently, do you know what "narcissistic" means

    ** Look in the mirror, you vile waste of space.


    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?
    How often do you get punched in the face?
    Clearly not nearly often enough.

    FOAD you dispicable troll.

    You really should calm down a bit.

    ** You REALLY should FUCK OFF from here.

    Try Twitter or Facebook.

    Chock full of millions of ASD fucked, retarded, know nothing vile pricks like YOU !!



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Thu Apr 7 01:56:34 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 6:36:58 PM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    David Brown wrote:

    <snip>

    I assume you don't know what the word "pontificate" means.

    ** It's what narcissistic pricks like YOU you do in every post.

    So I am correct.

    He probably does know, but isn't going to bother digging out a definition.

    ** Like hell you are - fuckhead.

    Nor, apparently, do you know what "narcissistic" means.

    ** Look in the mirror, you vile waste of space.

    If Phil knew what the word meant, he wouldn't bother to tell you to do that, since if you were a real narcissist you'd be spending most of your time admiring yourself in one of the numerous mirrors that every narcissist keeps handy. Not that John Larkin
    admits this.

    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?

    He didn't, the one time I talked to him on the phone.

    How often do you get punched in the face?
    Clearly not nearly often enough.

    FOAD you despicable troll.

    You really should calm down a bit.

    ** You REALLY should FUCK OFF from here.

    On the whole, I suspect Phil that choosing some other place to sound off would probably make more people happy, But that is a personal value judgement.

    Try Twitter or Facebook.

    Chock full of millions of ASD fucked, retarded, know nothing vile pricks like YOU !!

    Phil does seem to think that everybody except him is on the autism spectrum. It's not a common term of abuse, so one has to wonder why it springs to his mind so much more frequently than it does to anybody else's.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Thu Apr 7 11:34:04 2022
    On 07/04/2022 10:56, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 6:36:58 PM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    David Brown wrote:

    <snip>

    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?

    (Since Phil doesn't know what the words mean, the question itself is meaningless.)


    He didn't, the one time I talked to him on the phone.

    I'm pretty sure we have never talked on the phone. Mine is a very
    common name - there's a good chance you've talked to another David Brown
    at some time.


    I don't think you'll see Phil on Twitter or Facebook any time soon -
    AFAIUI (I don't use them myself), they have filters, abuse handlers, moderators, and that sort of thing. I suspect Phil's unique brand of
    vitriol would quickly lead to complaints and him being banned.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Thu Apr 7 04:07:30 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 8:31:33 PM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    David Brown wrote:
    ====================================

    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?

    (Since Phil doesn't know what the words mean,

    ** ROTFL - Brown has no clue who or what he is.

    The cluelessness is all Phil's.

    He didn't, the one time I talked to him on the phone.

    I was responding to David Brown's question, not Phil Alison's, as would have been pretty obvious to anybody who thought about the context.

    Phil does live in Sydney and has mentioned our single conversation in at least one post here.

    I'm pretty sure we have never talked on the phone. Mine is a very common name - there's a good chance you've talked to another David Brown at some time.

    Can't think of one. There isn't a single Brown in my address book (nor any married ones either).

    ** ROTFLMAO !!!

    Da Sloman is so fucking demented he has no clue who anyone is !!

    There is a simpler explanation, which Phil doesn't seem to have noticed.

    Talks to the TV set, thinks it replies.
    Believes it shows real life, not actors.

    News programs are supposed to show real life. Phil does watch Fox/Sky News, which doesn't.

    Big Brother tells him what to think.

    Not that I've noticed. I am the oldest of the three brothers in my family, and while my younger brother is now fatter than I am, I'm still his big brother.

    Looks much like Joe Biden.

    Joe Biden doesn't have a beard, and he is four days older than I am. And I'm not worn down by the same responsibilities either.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to David Total Fuckwit Autistic Brown on Thu Apr 7 03:31:30 2022
    David Total Fuckwit Autistic Brown wrote:
    ====================================

    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?

    (Since Phil doesn't know what the words mean,

    ** ROTFL - Brown has no clue who or what he is.


    He didn't, the one time I talked to him on the phone.

    I'm pretty sure we have never talked on the phone. Mine is a very
    common name - there's a good chance you've talked to another David Brown
    at some time.


    ** ROTFLMAO !!!

    Da Slow Man is so fucking demented he has no clue who anyone is !!
    Talks to the TV set, thinks it replies.
    Believes it shows real life, not actors.

    Big Brother tells him what to think.
    Looks much like Joe Biden.



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Thu Apr 7 14:38:38 2022
    On 07/04/2022 13:07, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 8:31:33 PM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    David Brown wrote:
    ====================================

    Do you talk like this in real life?

    ** Do you pontificate like this in real life?



    He didn't, the one time I talked to him on the phone.

    I was responding to David Brown's question, not Phil Alison's, as would have been pretty obvious to anybody who thought about the context.

    It was not remotely obvious, since you put your reply under Phil's
    question and not mine. But the mixup is now sorted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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