• Ukrain invited into NATO

    From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 02:38:28 2022
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is
    very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has changed the world.



    --
    MRM

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  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Tue Mar 15 22:14:36 2022
    On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has changed the world.


    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
    request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at
    this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that
    they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then
    where will he be?

    Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their best
    defence against Russia. They are seriously considering joining.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush-off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927

    It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of this
    debacle to save enough face to remain in power.

    John

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 00:17:40 2022
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration >of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered >their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is >very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it >numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has >changed the world.

    Three European Prime Ministers do not represent NATO.

    RL

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  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to legg on Wed Mar 16 05:22:44 2022
    legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the >>admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
    offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video
    is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to >>repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He >>has changed the world.

    Three European Prime Ministers do not represent NATO.

    RL

    They can recommend. That was the purpose of their trip.

    Zelensky has adressed the English and Canadian parliaments with very
    favorable results. He will address the US congress and is expected to
    receive a favorable reception. His outstanding leadership against Putin,
    and the overwhelming worldwide sanctions against Russia make joining NATO a strong possibility. This is a complete reversal of previous policy.

    Joining NATO criteria includes a functioning democratic political system
    based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority populations; a
    commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to
    make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to
    democratic civil-military relations...

    He has demonstrated these qualities in spades.



    --
    MRM

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Tue Mar 15 22:23:40 2022
    John Robertson wrote:
    ==================


    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
    numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
    changed the world.

    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
    request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at
    this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that
    they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then
    where will he be?


    ** So he cannot stop, if temporarily thwarted he will up the ante.
    It's now or never.
    Putin picked his moment carefully.



    ...... Phil

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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Wed Mar 16 05:42:27 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    A bizarre troll...

    --
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Ukrain invited into NATO
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC)
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    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has changed the world.



    --
    MRM


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  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:43:30 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:42:27 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0rtc2$25s$10@dont-email.me>).

    Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
    (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET has been 53.1% of its posts contributing "nothing except
    insults" to USENET.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    k1umE/TOh5dS

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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Wed Mar 16 05:43:06 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The freakiest troll in this group...

    --
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: Ukrain invited into NATO
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:22:44 -0000 (UTC)
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    legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the >>>admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and >>>offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video
    is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to >>>repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He >>>has changed the world.

    Three European Prime Ministers do not represent NATO.

    RL

    They can recommend. That was the purpose of their trip.

    Zelensky has adressed the English and Canadian parliaments with very favorable results. He will address the US congress and is expected to
    receive a favorable reception. His outstanding leadership against Putin,
    and the overwhelming worldwide sanctions against Russia make joining NATO a strong possibility. This is a complete reversal of previous policy.

    Joining NATO criteria includes a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations...

    He has demonstrated these qualities in spades.



    --
    MRM



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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Wed Mar 16 05:44:06 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Just another warmongering troll of which there are many,
    this one from Australia...

    --
    Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

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    Subject: Re: Ukrain invited into NATO
    From: Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>
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    John Robertson wrote:
    ==================


    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered
    their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The video is >> > very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it
    numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has
    changed the world.

    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
    request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at
    this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that
    they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then
    where will he be?


    ** So he cannot stop, if temporarily thwarted he will up the ante.
    It's now or never.
    Putin picked his moment carefully.



    ...... Phil









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  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:45:45 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:44:52 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0rtgk$25s$13@dont-email.me>.

    PmH6cdUjy/AE

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  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:44:38 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:44:06 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0rtf6$25s$12@dont-email.me>).

    Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
    (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET has been 53.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except
    insults" to USENET.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    Sid9MTDvPF5j

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  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:46:52 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:46:09 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0rtj1$25s$15@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    zlf9mMekCwdL

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Tue Mar 15 23:09:56 2022
    On 3/15/2022 10:14 PM, John Robertson wrote:
    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen at this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    Exactly. Sort of like a (medical) insurance company NOT being eager to take you on as a new customer the day before your scheduled heart surgery...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine that they will
    join NATO in a few years (these things take time) and then where will he be?

    I think he's already screwed that pooch.

    Amusingly, Trump may have made things *worse* for Putin as his attitude
    towards the alliance has undoubtedly put the idea that America may NOT
    be a reliable defense partner and, maybe, european countries might want
    to think real hard about NOT relying on the US to cover their asses...
    Germany buying 35 F35's does not *improve* Putin's position in europe.

    Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their best defence
    against Russia. They are seriously considering joining.

    Likewise, we'll probably hear more from pacrim countries looking for some
    sort of defense pact wrt China. China already beating its chest to try
    to discourage that from happening.

    It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of this debacle to
    save enough face to remain in power.

    I think public sentiment, at home, will prove bad for him, historically.
    He's not going to go down in history as the man who made russia "great",
    again -- especially among young people who have grown up with many of the benefits of "westernization". Kinda hard to imagine russian millenials
    in drab wool coats with equally drab head scarves waiting in line for loaves
    of bread...

    A russian friend, here, has been having a tough time trying to digest what
    she sees on western media. And, seeing how her family back in russia are
    not being shown the same materials. You gotta wonder if she's made the connection: "How much of *my* opinions were formed from biased propaganda, over the years, while living there?"

    [C'mon, do you really think ALL of the media outlets that you can freely
    access have conspired to create a fake narrative about what's happening
    over there?!]

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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 15 23:41:07 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 5:16:37 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

    We need a diversity of opinions.

    But we need John Does half-witted opinions like we need a hole in the head. Diversity is good, up to a point, but John Doe does make it clear that not every opinion is worthy of attention, and some need to be delivered with a health warning - taking
    this creep seriously will make you look stupid.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Mar 16 06:16:30 2022
    We need a diversity of opinions.

    --
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Wed Mar 16 06:46:05 2022
    I relent...

    --
    Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Wed Mar 16 09:29:15 2022
    On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    What's your source for that?

    That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
    since that is one of his "justifications" for the
    (non-existant) war.

    They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
    Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.


    This is a tremendous development that will change the world.

    Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.

    Even joining the EU is very unlikely.


    The video is
    very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    Your time would have been better spent looking at other
    sources that don't get their news from Russia Today's sources.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the truth. He has changed the world.

    There we agree.

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  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 12:53:03 2022
    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:16:30 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0rvbu$j99$1@dont-email.me>).

    Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
    (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET has been 52.8% of its posts contributing "nothing except
    insults" to USENET.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    zVaJBUy3F8sp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to David Brown on Wed Mar 16 15:42:41 2022
    On 16/03/22 15:37, David Brown wrote:
    On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the
    admiration
    of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
    offered
    their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    What's your source for that?

    That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
    since that is one of his "justifications" for the
    (non-existant) war.


    The world doesn't follow Putin's beliefs. We all know that Ukraine had
    some interest in joining NATO before the invasion - they wanted to find
    a balance between getting protection from Russia after previous military aggression, and not wanting to antagonise them. We all know that NATO
    would not have accepted Ukraine, precisely to avoid causing more agrivation.

    We also all know that if there is one thing that is sure about the
    result of this war, it is that the Ukraine /really/ want to join NATO
    now. If they come out of this all with some semblance of sovereignty, without having bargained away their right to apply to join NATO, then
    they will be keen to start the process.

    Many individual NATO countries will offer support to Ukraine's
    application, if it comes. But I expect that NATO as a whole will reject
    it to avoid rocking the boat any further.

    None of this is part of Putin's propaganda, which has never been
    intended to fool anyone outside his own borders. (That it fools a few regulars here is accidental.)

    Having said that, all I have heard about the prime ministers visiting
    Kiev is that they are showing their support for Ukraine, not for Ukraine membership in NATO.


    They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
    Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.


    This is a tremendous development that will change the world.

    Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.


    I agree.

    Even joining the EU is very unlikely.


    More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.

    We appear to be in violent agreement.

    However, far too many people outside Russia do follow
    "Putin's beliefs". Most of them don't realise that because
    Russian propaganda has become more successful.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Wed Mar 16 16:37:19 2022
    On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 16/03/22 02:38, Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won the
    admiration
    of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone, and
    offered
    their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    What's your source for that?

    That is /exactly/ what Putin wants the world to believe,
    since that is one of his "justifications" for the
    (non-existant) war.


    The world doesn't follow Putin's beliefs. We all know that Ukraine had
    some interest in joining NATO before the invasion - they wanted to find
    a balance between getting protection from Russia after previous military aggression, and not wanting to antagonise them. We all know that NATO
    would not have accepted Ukraine, precisely to avoid causing more agrivation.

    We also all know that if there is one thing that is sure about the
    result of this war, it is that the Ukraine /really/ want to join NATO
    now. If they come out of this all with some semblance of sovereignty,
    without having bargained away their right to apply to join NATO, then
    they will be keen to start the process.

    Many individual NATO countries will offer support to Ukraine's
    application, if it comes. But I expect that NATO as a whole will reject
    it to avoid rocking the boat any further.

    None of this is part of Putin's propaganda, which has never been
    intended to fool anyone outside his own borders. (That it fools a few
    regulars here is accidental.)

    Having said that, all I have heard about the prime ministers visiting
    Kiev is that they are showing their support for Ukraine, not for Ukraine membership in NATO.


    They may well have offered support /in principle/ for
    Ukraine joining the EU, but that is irrelevant to NATO.


    This is a tremendous development that will change the world.

    Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.


    I agree.

    Even joining the EU is very unlikely.


    More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to John Doe on Wed Mar 16 19:02:29 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 2:16:37 AM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    We need a diversity of opinions.

    Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. Opinions are not at all important. What is important are facts. But many don't believe in facts, not the kind that are based in reality. Some prefer to believe in unsubstantiated conspiracies, and any
    random rumor without a shred of evidence.

    No, an opinion that we never landed on the moon is of no value. Much more useful are the facts regarding the actual moon landing event, the reality.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Thu Mar 17 11:22:14 2022
    On 16/03/2022 16:42, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 16/03/22 15:37, David Brown wrote:
    On 16/03/2022 10:29, Tom Gardner wrote:

    Ukraine will not join NATO, even though they would like to.


    I agree.

    Even joining the EU is very unlikely.


    More likely than joining NATO, but still unlikely.

    We appear to be in violent agreement.

    However, far too many people outside Russia do follow
    "Putin's beliefs". Most of them don't realise that because
    Russian propaganda has become more successful.

    I don't know how common it is. I mean, even one person is "too many",
    but I haven't encountered many who see things from Putin's viewpoint.
    This group is hardly representative of people in general!

    Of course no situation is ever quite black-or-white, and there is always
    a bias to the information and opinions we are served. Ukraine has not
    been a model country (though it has been improving significantly in many
    ways), and while Putin's claims of genocide towards its Russian
    minorities are clearly absurd exaggeration, they were not treated as
    well as they might. And while I don't think NATO would let Ukraine join properly, they are on a list of "partners". Putin was right to be
    worried about Ukraine, and right to complain about close relationships
    with NATO disrupting the status quo - but not right to invade (or annex
    the Crimea, or to encourage and support rebellion in the east of the
    country).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Thu Mar 17 12:25:17 2022
    John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote in news:wOGdnax14bWg76z_nZ2dnUU7-bPNnZ2d@giganews.com:


    On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won
    the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone,
    and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The
    video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my
    eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the
    truth. He has changed the world.


    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
    request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen
    at this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine
    that they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time)
    and then where will he be?

    Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their
    best defence against Russia. They are seriously considering
    joining.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush -off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927

    It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of
    this debacle to save enough face to remain in power.

    John

    Putin is an idiot. NATO nations are not pointing missiles at Russia.
    NATO countries are pointing missile DEFENSE systems at Russian
    airspace.

    Putin is afraid of a takeover. If the rest of the world were
    anything like him, it would have already happened. The fact that it
    has not is proof that he is off his rocker with his zeal for getting
    the old USSR back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StupidAs StupidGet@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Sat Mar 19 05:35:01 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 5:25:24 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in news:wOGdnax14bWg76z_...@giganews.com:

    On 2022/03/15 7:38 p.m., Mike Monett wrote:
    Zelensky is a true hero. His brave fight against Putin has won
    the admiration of ordinary people and leaders around the world.

    Here is how he rose from a comedian to a world leader:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzSjPxphfHI

    His requests to join NATO have been refused. Until now.

    Three European leaders have got on a train to Kyiv, a war zone,
    and offered their support for Ukraine to join NATO.

    This is a tremendous development that will change the world. The
    video is very short. I was so stunned I could not believe my
    eyes. I had to repeat it numerous times for it to sink in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qw6cicqHU

    His bravery will enourage others to stand up and fight for the
    truth. He has changed the world.


    The organization has to agree to accept Ukraine, members can only
    request the organization to consider it. It is not going to happen
    at this time. Too many ways for things to spiral out of control...

    I assume that Putin's fear now is if he doesn't conquer Ukraine
    that they will join NATO in a few years (these things take time)
    and then where will he be?

    Not to mention that Sweden and Finland now see that NATO is their
    best defence against Russia. They are seriously considering
    joining.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-brush -off-moscows-warning-joining-nato-83126927

    It now depends on how stable Putin can craft a 'victory' out of
    this debacle to save enough face to remain in power.

    John

    Putin is an idiot. NATO nations are not pointing missiles at Russia.
    NATO countries are pointing missile DEFENSE systems at Russian
    airspace.

    Putin is afraid of a takeover. If the rest of the world were
    anything like him, it would have already happened. The fact that it
    has not is proof that he is off his rocker with his zeal for getting
    the old USSR back.

    Empty logic. It didn't happen because it didn't happen. U'r FFF

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)