• We Really Had a Wonderful Life

    From amdx@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 12 16:53:33 2022
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

                                                  Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Mar 12 18:02:09 2022
    On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC+11, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    Well, a Trump supporter would think that - anybody silly enough to support Donald Trump is silly enough to ignore the knock-on effects of Putin invading the Ukraine, which are pushing up oil prices, and silly enough to imagine that the Keystone XL
    pipeline project might have made any difference to the situation.

    American Greatness is primarily a pro-Trump propaganda platform, and rather less than reputable.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/american-greatness-is-a-trash-organization

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Mar 12 18:23:00 2022
    amdx wrote:
    ============

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    ** Nice bit of creative writing - dripping with irony.

    The "mid terms" will give US voters a chance to have their say.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_elections

    The worst govt, pres and vice in US history may get a big shocks.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Sat Mar 12 19:45:51 2022
    On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:23:08 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ============

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    ** Nice bit of creative writing - dripping with irony.

    The "mid terms" will give US voters a chance to have their say.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_elections

    The worst govt, pres and vice in US history may get a big shocks.

    Trump and Pence may not like the results.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Sat Mar 12 20:37:38 2022
    On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:23:08 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ============

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    ** Nice bit of creative writing - dripping with irony.

    The "mid terms" will give US voters a chance to have their say.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_elections

    The worst govt, pres and vice in US history may get a big shocks.

    Trump may not like the results. Pence is unlikely to get picked to run again with Trump as his vice-president - he compromised his status as the worst vice-president in US history by not playing along with the Trump-inspired invasion of the Capitol
    building aimed getting the 2020 presidential election results set aside, though he may still deserve it for other reasons, but Trump isn't going to forgive him for it, so Pence probably won't really care how the midterms come out.

    Even if the US electorate is sufficiently with the persistent consequences of Trump's incompetence to reject the Democrats, it's unlikely to make Trump any more electable. People dim enough to be his supporters may still support him, but the degree of
    dimness required to let you remain unaware of his defects is now more extreme than it was in 2016.

    Fox News - and it's Australian branch, Sky News which Phil is dim enough to take seriously - do seem to be investing in staying in Trump's good books, but Trump doesn't have enough money to make it worth their while. Putin might have done until he
    started the invasion of the Ukraine, and he does have a history of helping Trump to get elected.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Mar 13 08:28:19 2022
    On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
    Then I saw "American Greatness", and I guess otherwise.

    Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
    who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
    Modern propagandists have studied them.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Mar 13 11:40:18 2022
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    Mikek

    It didn't take Usurper Joe long to wreck everything, did it? The guy
    just resembles a re-animated corpse compared to the life-amfirming
    vigour of the previous fellow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 05:46:19 2022
    On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 10:40:29 PM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    It didn't take Usurper Joe long to wreck everything, did it? The guy
    just resembles a re-animated corpse compared to the life-affirming
    vigor of the previous fellow.

    Cursitor Doom does believe all the rubbish he reads in Russia Today.

    Seeing Trump's egomaniac self-promotion as "life-affirming vigor" takes real gullibility, and Cursitor Doom has that in spades.

    Joe Biden may not spend as much of his time promoting himself as a "stable genius", but that doesn't make him any kind of re-animated corpse either - he's just spending more of his time trying to gets useful stuff happening, which isn't something that
    Trump ever bothered with.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 13 06:39:58 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 12:32:24 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    Bozo is the Boziest clown of them all.

    John Doe can't say why, but he's convinced that his opinion is worth posting anyway. He got a lot of opinions, and none of them are worth posting.

    <snipped recycled opinions carried over from previous threads>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 13:32:13 2022
    Bozo is the Boziest clown of them all.


    Bozo Bill Sloman is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be
    reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Mar 13 07:07:51 2022
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 14:33:47 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Mar 13 07:37:37 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:08:12 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-lif

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html

    The Voice of America is the US equivalent of Russia Today.

    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Actually it's a craft where you need to learn a great deal about the opposition - common sense without that detailed background information isn't much use.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Somebody who had any common sense wouldn't have invested a great deal of other peoples money in casinos and hotels and seen them all go bust.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019

    John Larkin might be dumb enough to believe his lies - Trump supporters do seem to be remarkably gullible - but Trump's approach to diplomacy was predicated on getting himself photographed in situation where the photographs would get into the news. He
    doesn't ever seem to have negotiated anything of consequence.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 07:46:09 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:33:59 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html

    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    Cursitor Doom has been reading - and believing - Russia Today. Zelensky could have been an absolute genius at politics and diplomacy but it wouldn't have made any difference to Putin's desire to get the Ukraine back under Russian control.

    The main problem is that Zelensky is reasonably honest, and Putin isn't, and Putin is well aware that having a well run and not too corrupt regime in an adjacent country does highlight the flaws in his own rapacious administration.

    --
    Bill Sloman, sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 08:05:59 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Mar 13 18:14:16 2022
    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.



    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 17:39:55 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.



    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    For once I'm largely in agreement with you. The common perception
    among Lefties in the West is that the 1917 Russian Revolution would
    have ushered in a utopia were it not for the advent of Joe Stalin.
    Just about all the ills of the old Soviet Union were blamed on Uncle
    Joe. But if you read into it, you'll see that Lenin was instituting
    pogroms against ordinary Russians as early as Spring 1919. The dream
    died well before Uncle Joe came on the scene, I can promise you that.
    But you're right to say that pyschopaths do very well and rise to the
    top in Russia for some reason. And not just in government, but in the
    Organs of State as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 10:40:51 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 17:33:25 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 10:49:34 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.



    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    The Russians, like the Chinese, have far too much respect for and fear
    of authority. And are too tribal around their culture and language.
    Sociopathic lunatics like Stalin and Mao and Putin and Xi take
    control.

    Their dictator is insane and is hurting them, and killing their
    Ukrainian friends, but what's most important is that he's Russian.

    The USA got lucky in that it was and is a nation of mixed immigrants,
    which dilutes tribalism. Everybody is eating every kind of food and
    marrying every sort of person.

    (My wife is ITALIAN from BOSTON!)



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 18:25:39 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to she immediately on Sun Mar 13 15:32:39 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:49:34 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>> to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.



    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    The Russians, like the Chinese, have far too much respect for and fear
    of authority. And are too tribal around their culture and language. >Sociopathic lunatics like Stalin and Mao and Putin and Xi take
    control.

    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
    met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's
    being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.


    Their dictator is insane and is hurting them, and killing their
    Ukrainian friends, but what's most important is that he's Russian.

    The USA got lucky in that it was and is a nation of mixed immigrants,
    which dilutes tribalism. Everybody is eating every kind of food and
    marrying every sort of person.

    I've always thought that the US was fortunate in that their revolution
    arose from the elites of that day, and not from the traditional
    starving unlettered rabble.

    Our founders were mostly learned men who were familiar with history
    and law, and could afford private libraries. So they knew how this
    and that legal concepts had turned out in European countries, and in
    the empires of the past, using this knowledge to shape our
    constitution to prevent these evils most ancient.

    So far their experiment is working, despite all predictions.


    (My wife is ITALIAN from BOSTON!)

    Is this cultural misappropriation?


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Mar 13 13:11:43 2022
    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
    met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's
    being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of
    The Norm]

    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
    I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 13:29:24 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>>to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco >>>>>- that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Mar 13 13:48:26 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    ==============

    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    ** Churchill was one such.
    Being around Stalin " ... made the hair stand up on the back of my neck ".
    Considered him a very dangerous psychopath.
    Was very concerned that Pres Roosevelt did not have the same reaction and actually trusted the lunatic.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Mar 13 13:37:19 2022
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    =================================

    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    ** Russians have never adopted nor experienced parliamentary democracy.
    The culture is still essentially medieval.

    The Russians, like the Chinese, have far too much respect for and fear
    of authority.

    ** See above, no democracy means citizens have no sense of power.

    And are too tribal around their culture and language.

    ** So are the French.

    Sociopathic lunatics like Stalin and Mao and Putin and Xi take control.

    ** Dictatorial systems *always* reward that sort of person.
    Happens anywhere: govt bureaucracies, clubs, businesses and especially HOAs ....

    The USA got lucky in that it was and is a nation of mixed immigrants,
    which dilutes tribalism.

    ** No, it actually encourages it.

    Everybody is eating every kind of food and marrying every sort of person.

    ** ROTFL !!



    ....... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Sun Mar 13 17:48:33 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid
    Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
    met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's like
    being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed >schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand >confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of
    The Norm]

    Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.


    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
    I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
    somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 23:20:30 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>>>to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco >>>>>>- that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>>cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>>distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>>march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Mar 13 16:45:36 2022
    On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid
    Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
    met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's like >>> being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed
    schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand
    confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of
    The Norm]

    Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

    And the environment/situation was suggestive of "experimental oddness"...
    young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as "adults".

    Part of "relating" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
    And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life "as is"
    (or, as they were portraying themselves).

    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
    I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
    out of the car. "Something wrong" but no way to describe *what*.

    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Yes. "Feeling" is the right (informal) term. "Vibe".

    I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
    personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
    willing to "suspend" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
    factor into your final assessment of another.

    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Yup. My point was as to the "psychiatrist's" comment. I'd not consider
    such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR "feelings" for a diagnosis.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 18:28:07 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 4:40:08 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:
    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>> to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. He is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term limits they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    For once I'm largely in agreement with you. The common perception
    among Lefties in the West is that the 1917 Russian Revolution would
    have ushered in a utopia were it not for the advent of Joe Stalin.

    Quite a few western Socialists saw the Russian revolution as having installed a one-party state, and they didn't like the way it behaved.

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/p463ti/if_you_took_the_most_ardent_revolutionary_vested/>

    The quote is from Mikhail Bakunin who died in 1876, and was a reaction to Karl Marx's wrong-headed enthusiasm for the "leading role of the party"

    Just about all the ills of the old Soviet Union were blamed on Uncle
    Joe. But if you read into it, you'll see that Lenin was instituting
    pogroms against ordinary Russians as early as Spring 1919. The dream
    died well before Uncle Joe came on the scene, I can promise you that.

    Not that Cursitor Doom knows enough to make his promises worth having.

    But you're right to say that pyschopaths do very well and rise to the top in Russia for some reason. And not just in government, but in the Organs of State as well.

    Hitler did pretty well in Germany, and Marget Thatcher in the UK. It's not just a Russian problem.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 18:41:24 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:26:15 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia.

    There's quite a lot of appetite for representative democracy. Neo-liberalism is a fairly right-wing policy option and it is hard to get most people to vote for it.

    And there are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he ever showed any weakness.

    There might well be. Putin has just wrecked the Russian economy, and more bellicose actors would wreck it more comprehensively, so their changes of actually ousting Putin aren't great.

    I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, level-headed Putin to deal with.

    Putin is scarcely moderate or level-headed. Getting into a situation where his forces are shelling and bombing hospitals - which does make him a war-criminal - isn't a prudent choice. Less belicose actors are probably thinking about ousting him, and
    buying credit with the rest of the world by turning him in for trial as a war criminal.

    Don't fall for the CRAP they say about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Be like Cursitor Doom. Get suckered by what Russia Today has to say about him (as instructed by Putin).

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 13 18:30:02 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>>>>to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco >>>>>>>- that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>>>cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>>>distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more. >>>>>>
    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>>Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>>>march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 18:16:24 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 4:33:38 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.

    Not instantly fatal, any more than Cursitor Doom's decision to trust Russia Today.

    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago.

    NATO made the promise to a more or less representative democracy that had replaced the Communist regime.

    Russia has now degenerated into an oligarchy, and the oligarchs are using all the techniques of autocratic tyranny to stay in power, including killing off local political rivals.

    Russia sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insidious Eastward march.

    What Russian is actually seeing is its neighbours getting progressively more worried by the criminal aggression of it's oligarchy. The adjacent countries aren't getting absorbed into NATO - it's just a mutual defense arrangement. The European Union is a
    political union, and they could get absorbed into that.

    Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin.

    He annexed the Crimean peninsula in March 2014, so looks more like just one more "last straw".

    He had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are.

    He is more redrawing what he imagines to be "greater Russia's" borders - new lines at regular intervals.

    I see Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no choice but to say 'enough is enough.'

    Nobody has tried to base Western nuclear missiles in the Ukraine, which was the kind of provocation that JFK was dealing with.
    As an analogy it sucks.

    We're pushing him into a position where he may simply have to push the button. :(

    He is looking more like Hitler every day, with the Crimea as his Sudetenland, and the Ukraine starting to look rather like his Poland, though with any luck it will turn out to be his Russia - the point where his ambitions exceed his capacity to achieve
    them.

    Nobody is pushing him - it is his own demented ambition that is doing all the pushing here.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Mar 13 18:50:40 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:32:57 AM UTC+11, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:49:34 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.comwrote: >On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    <snip>

    Our founders were mostly learned men who were familiar with history
    and law, and could afford private libraries. So they knew how this
    and that legal concepts had turned out in European countries, and in
    the empires of the past, using this knowledge to shape our
    constitution to prevent these evils most ancient.

    Of course the learned men involved didn't include Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Payne, who were radical enlightenment figures, so the ideas they put into the US constitution were merely moderately enlightened.

    So far their experiment is working, despite all predictions.

    More recent innovations do seem to lead to experiments that work better. Donald Trump's election is clear evidence that the US electoral system doesn't work well, and everybody else has systems where the prime minster can be chucked out overnight if they
    loses the confidence of the house of representatives, which could have got rid of Trump a lot more rapidly.

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 13 18:59:46 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 10:20:41 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.co wrote: >On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    <snip>

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    So if they suppressed those images they wouldn't be trying to manipulate us? There's a war going on in the Ukraine and it's looking like every other war ever fought.

    Nobody is demanding retribution. The real desire is for the war to stop.

    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    Somebody as vain as John Larkin might be sympathetic to Putin's desire to look regal and impressive. To anybody else it just looks theatrical.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 02:32:28 2022
    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 02:33:54 2022
    Bozo is projecting. But it makes no difference since bozo is nothing but
    an ineffectual blowhard.


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 02:34:30 2022
    Bozo is a Blowhard.


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 08:10:43 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Cursitor Doom wrote:

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Maybe, if not for the Deep State. Ronald Reagan said the Deep State has a greater influence on policy than elected officials do. If you weaken
    elected officials with term limits, the Deep State grows relatively
    stronger. Politicians are captives.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 08:36:49 2022
    On 13/03/2022 21:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It could have done so. Europe was getting steadily more open to Russia
    for most of the last three decades, and NATO in Europe barely saw Russia
    as a realistic military threat. We had more and more trade - such as
    Russian gas. Putin could have kept that up, but he started getting more paranoid and more aggressive in his rhetoric and military exercises,
    then with his wars that we tolerated, and now Ukraine which we have not tolerated.


    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Putin used to be level-headed. Not any more. Perhaps rivals in the
    wings have driven him to paranoia and delusions, as has happened to many dictators (including many Russia / Soviet ones).


    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    No.


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?


    No.

    You are getting the real news - it's Cursitor who continues to read
    propaganda.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Mar 14 08:15:43 2022
    Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin.

    That's what Henry Kissinger and other Western experts have warned.

    He had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a position
    where he may simply have to push the button. :(

    Seems more like trying to put missiles in Mexico or Canada.

    There is at least one more concern, the rise of Nazi-ism in Ukraine. But
    likely that is intertwined with the NATO expansion thing.

    Russia won't be concerned about guerrilla warfare because it's mission is
    to stop the encouragement of ORGANIZED NATO operations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 08:16:32 2022
    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>>>>> to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco >>>>>>>> - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>>>> cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>>>> distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more. >>>>>>>
    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>>> Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>>>> march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Mon Mar 14 08:23:24 2022
    Right. And the fact Ukraine hates Trump and Russia is the reason
    Nazi-loving cannibal leftists are rooting for Ukraine.

    Isn't it amazing... At least here in America, liberals used to feign
    concern for ordinary AMERICAN workers and feign hatred for Nazis. Now they support imperialism, illegal invaders, and "anti-fascists" who operate
    like Nazis...



    Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700,
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom
    <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net>
    wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we- really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                  Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian- invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a
    newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current
    fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality
    and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd
    physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need
    more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made
    to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous
    Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 08:17:00 2022
    encouragement

    *encroachment

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 02:47:43 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 7:10:54 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Cursitor Doom wrote:

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.
    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Maybe, if not for the Deep State.

    John Doe was frighten by a Deep State when he was very young, and is still terrified of it.
    Strange, when it doesn't exist.

    Ronald Reagan said the Deep State has a greater influence on policy than elected officials do.

    And his wife had him taking advice from astrologers. He was definitely showing early signs of Alzheimers when he was running for his second term, so he's exactly the kind of expert that John Doe would rely on.

    If you weaken elected officials with term limits, the Deep State grows relatively stronger. Politicians are captives.

    If the deep state actually existed , this might be a worry. Politicians who lose their marbles are a more real and immediate threat. Joe Doe can't see this. He has clearly lost his marbles, and imagines that he is perfectly fine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 03:06:14 2022
    On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 6:30:17 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com >wrote:

    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    We all remember, though, that Hitler experienced a bomb left under one of
    his tables... by his countryman. Putin certainly remembers it, preferring to call it 'germs' for the press.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 02:59:08 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 14/03/22 01:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700 jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    <big snip>

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Right. And the fact Ukraine hates Trump and Russia is the reason Nazi-loving cannibal leftists are rooting for Ukraine.

    Only John Doe could tell us this, since he does seem to be only person who believes that cannibal leftists are real, and is thus uniquely placed to report on what they are doing. Leftists, by and large, disapprove of Nazi's, but since cannibal leftists (
    like the Deep State) exist only in John Doe fertile imagination, he can tell us all sorts of implausible facts about them.

    Isn't it amazing... At least here in America, liberals used to feign concern for ordinary AMERICAN workers and feign hatred for Nazis. Now they
    support imperialism, illegal invaders, and "anti-fascists" who operate like Nazis...

    John Doe's delusions about "liberals" are also entertaining, but somewhat implausible.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 03:11:24 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:15:53 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:

    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin.

    That's what Henry Kissinger and other Western experts have warned.

    He had to draw the line somewhere...

    No, that 'line' is a nation's border, and he does NOT respect that line at all. That's
    the problem. Other nations beware, join NATO quick!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Mon Mar 14 10:47:56 2022
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Doe wrote:
    Cursitor Doom wrote:

    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous
    Eastward march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for
    Putin.

    That's what Henry Kissinger and other Western experts have warned.

    He had to draw the line somewhere...

    No, that 'line' is a nation's border,

    Are you really THAT stupid?

    and he does NOT respect that line at all.

    Russia controlled Ukraine and the other border countries up until the
    1990s, moron. It relinquished that control without starting World War III.
    But the condition was they must remain neutral.

    That's the problem.

    We should have let Russia put missiles in Cuba? How about Mexico and
    Canada?

    Other nations beware, join NATO quick!

    Silly troll.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 10:39:04 2022
    Bozo is the boziest clown of them all.


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 10:48:40 2022
    The stupidest clown ever.


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Mon Mar 14 07:00:37 2022
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>>>>>>> to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco >>>>>>>>> - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>>>>> cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>>>>> distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more. >>>>>>>>
    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>>>> Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>>>>> march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a
    position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 07:05:43 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:48:06 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Doe wrote:
    Cursitor Doom wrote:

    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous
    Eastward march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for
    Putin.

    That's what Henry Kissinger and other Western experts have warned.

    He had to draw the line somewhere...

    No, that 'line' is a nation's border,

    Are you really THAT stupid?

    Whit3rd isn't in the least stupid. John Doe is a deluded moron with delusions of competence.

    and he does NOT respect that line at all.

    Russia controlled Ukraine and the other border countries up until the 1990s, moron.

    It takes a moron like John Doe to confuse Russia and the USSR. Russia was just one republic in the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics if a big and influential one.

    That union fell apart in 1990, and with it any Russian control over the other republics. It takes a morn like John Doe to imagine that this bit of history is any kind of excuse for Russia's current antics.

    It relinquished that control without starting World War III.

    It didn't have much choice.

    But the condition was they must remain neutral.

    The fragments of the former Soviet Union weren't in any position in 1990 to impose conditions on one another

    <snipped the rest>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 07:09:28 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:48:51 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    The stupidest clown ever.

    John Doe is too modest. He has a much stronger claim to that distinction than any of the competition posting here. Flyguy and Skybuck may actually be more stupid, but their delusions aren't as comical as John Doe's.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 14:36:10 2022
    Bozo the Dingbat...


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention- craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 09:23:29 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:48:06 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Russia controlled Ukraine and the other border countries up until the
    1990s, moron. It relinquished that control without starting World War III. But the condition was they must remain neutral.

    A pox on that "condition"! And, on the "special military operation" it rode in on.

    A nation with a democratic government makes its own laws. There's no
    treaty, or law, or practical necessity for continuous approval by a neighboring state. Putin wants a colony, or a satellite, and violates sovereignty in
    the traditional way: he invades.

    We should have let Russia put missiles in Cuba?

    No, not missiles with such range that can only be intended for US cities as targets.
    Defensive weapons, or general purpose warships, aren't a offense against
    a specific nation (i.e. an aimed aggressive threat). US didn't invade Cuba, but did
    act against incoming shipments for a while.

    Ukraine, on the other hand, had no such offensive weaponry, no agression plans, nor
    NATO membership. The invasion is a land grab, greed rather than necessity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 17:57:06 2022
    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and >>>>>>>>> cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical >>>>>>>>> distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more. >>>>>>>>>
    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>>>>> Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward >>>>>>>> march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate,
    level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say
    about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion
    over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Mon Mar 14 15:12:48 2022
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid >>>> Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling"
    in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
    met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's like >>>> being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed >>> schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand >>> confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of
    The Norm]

    Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

    And the environment/situation was suggestive of "experimental oddness"... >young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as "adults".

    Part of "relating" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
    And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life "as is"
    (or, as they were portraying themselves).

    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
    I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some >work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
    out of the car. "Something wrong" but no way to describe *what*.

    Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
    subtle.


    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Yes. "Feeling" is the right (informal) term. "Vibe".

    I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
    personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
    willing to "suspend" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
    factor into your final assessment of another.

    More to the point, it's a part of the ancient brain systems that
    determine who *not* to trust.


    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
    somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Yup. My point was as to the "psychiatrist's" comment. I'd not consider
    such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR >"feelings" for a diagnosis.

    Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
    and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
    of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
    are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
    me.

    Praecox feeling has a long history.

    .<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/>


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 14 15:57:02 2022
    On 3/13/2022 1:49 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:14:16 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 17:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer >>>>> to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.



    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    The Russians, like the Chinese, have far too much respect for and fear
    of authority. And are too tribal around their culture and language. Sociopathic lunatics like Stalin and Mao and Putin and Xi take
    control.

    Their dictator is insane and is hurting them, and killing their
    Ukrainian friends, but what's most important is that he's Russian.

    The USA got lucky in that it was and is a nation of mixed immigrants,
    which dilutes tribalism. Everybody is eating every kind of food and
    marrying every sort of person.

    (My wife is ITALIAN from BOSTON!)




    Trump kept Iran in check so good they opened fire on US bases with
    ballistic missiles not a problem.

    Weird definition of "in check", at least.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Mon Mar 14 15:44:25 2022
    On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
    Then I saw "American Greatness", and I guess otherwise.

    Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
    who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
    Modern propagandists have studied them.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."


    "Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
    North Korea, and Iran in check"

    Keeping dictatorships "in check" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
    appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn't a good
    long-term strategy.

    "and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?"

    We've given up on the word "peace" as a goal and the word "stability" is
    used to mean "continual armed conflicts but ones we're familiar with."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 14 16:13:22 2022
    On 3/14/2022 4:23 AM, John Doe wrote:
    Right. And the fact Ukraine hates Trump and Russia is the reason
    Nazi-loving cannibal leftists are rooting for Ukraine.

    Isn't it amazing... At least here in America, liberals used to feign
    concern for ordinary AMERICAN workers and feign hatred for Nazis. Now they support imperialism, illegal invaders, and "anti-fascists" who operate
    like Nazis...

    You'd have to hang out among more socialists and communists to find
    Americans who don't tend to "pick a side", and there aren't very many socialists or communists in America. as you've noticed.

    No war but the class war:

    <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Not_War_but_Class_War_graffiti_in_Turin.jpg>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Mon Mar 14 15:50:42 2022
    On 3/12/2022 5:53 PM, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                  Mikek



    Remember that time Iran opened fire on US bases in Iraq and Trump didn't
    do anything about it?

    Ya, they were real scared.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Mon Mar 14 15:01:42 2022
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense.

    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more. >>>>>>>>>>
    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to >>>>>>>>> Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>>>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and
    they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Mon Mar 14 15:15:34 2022
    On 3/14/2022 12:12 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious; >>>> I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
    work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
    out of the car. "Something wrong" but no way to describe *what*.

    Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
    subtle.

    I was young, at the time. And, was wondering what was wrong with *me* in
    that I couldn't make sense of the situation. *His* behavior appeared
    (to me) to be "normal" -- for him. So, clearly, it must be something
    wrong on my end (?)

    I (diplomatically) mentioned the experience to my boss and *his* reaction
    was as if this was not unexpected -- with some allusions to mental health issues (but, folks make such statements all the time so you never know when
    its deliberate). So, this just reinforced my self-doubt...

    I also recall seeing my friend (the first party mentioned) "off meds"
    and feeling the same sort of fear ("apprehension" is probably the better word... "I don't want to BE here, right now!"). Doubly disturbing as
    I *knew* this person -- *well*!

    It started me thinking about what it must be like when your "mind" is
    broken. Sort of like "what does a blind (from birth) person *see*?"
    but in a much grander scope. Do they see the rest of the world as
    "crazy"? (And, how do they explain, to themselves, how only *they*
    are "normal"? Really??? How would a rational person come to grips with
    the notion that the entire rest of the world is "wrong", save them???)

    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Yes. "Feeling" is the right (informal) term. "Vibe".

    I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
    personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
    willing to "suspend" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
    factor into your final assessment of another.

    More to the point, it's a part of the ancient brain systems that
    determine who *not* to trust.

    Yes. Like a woman thinking a guy to be a "creep" -- without being
    able to list the items that gave her that feeling.

    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
    somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Yup. My point was as to the "psychiatrist's" comment. I'd not consider
    such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
    "feelings" for a diagnosis.

    Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
    and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
    of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
    are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
    me.

    Aren't there any objective "tests" -- even if the professionals don't understand WHY the results are indicative of a condition, they could,
    at least, fall back on "large numbers": people who see ink-blot #4
    as a rhinoceros are more likely to have condition X...

    [*Objective* instead of subjective "feelings"]

    Much of medicine is a correlation of tests/diagnostics with conditions
    and illnesses, without actually (necessarily) understanding the underlying mechanisms that come into play. Why shouldn't this be, as well?

    Praecox feeling has a long history.

    .<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Mar 15 00:09:46 2022
    On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/



    I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
    Then I saw "American Greatness", and I guess otherwise.

    Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
    who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
    Modern propagandists have studied them.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."


    "Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, North Korea, and Iran in check"

    Keeping dictatorships "in check" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn't a good long-term strategy.

    "and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?"

    We've given up on the word "peace" as a goal and the word "stability" is used to
    mean "continual armed conflicts but ones we're familiar with."

    As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 00:19:24 2022
    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life >>>>>>>>>>> has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia >>>>>>>>>> sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of >>>>>>>> the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.


    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    I haven't seen anything to that effect about Putin.
    If true, it may even be rational /for him/ to be
    like that!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Mar 14 17:16:05 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:01:59 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Weak argument! A president 'questions' by investigating. The Donald
    made reckless claims, but never investigated. Those who DID investigate
    were never in accord with his claims. The constitution is quite clear on election certification: the states have authority.

    By denying the authoritative claims of the states on the election, the Donald was in breach of 'full faith and credit' as described in article 4, section 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Mon Mar 14 20:41:20 2022
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>>>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>>>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.

    Probably Goebbles:

    .<https://www.azquotes.com/author/5626-Joseph_Goebbels>


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From three_jeeps@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Mon Mar 14 18:17:31 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:13:06 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
    <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid >>>> Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling" >>>> in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I >>>> met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's like
    being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said >>>> that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed >>> schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand
    confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of >>> The Norm]

    Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

    And the environment/situation was suggestive of "experimental oddness"... >young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as "adults".

    Part of "relating" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
    And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life "as is"
    (or, as they were portraying themselves).

    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious; >>> I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some >work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
    out of the car. "Something wrong" but no way to describe *what*.

    Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
    subtle.


    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Yes. "Feeling" is the right (informal) term. "Vibe".

    I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply >personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
    willing to "suspend" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
    factor into your final assessment of another.

    More to the point, it's a part of the ancient brain systems that
    determine who *not* to trust.


    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
    somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Yup. My point was as to the "psychiatrist's" comment. I'd not consider >such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR >"feelings" for a diagnosis.

    Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
    and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
    of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
    are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
    me.

    Praecox feeling has a long history.

    .<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/>


    Joe Gwinn
    Yes, first discussed in 1941.
    https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/494088

    An interesting passage:
    "Thus, the praecox feeling implies in a single concept, denoted by a single term, at least two different gnoseological poles: a “subjective” one and an “objective” one. In our opinion, this distinction, even if somehow factitious, is critical to
    the process of understanding the criticisms of the praecox feeling as a diagnostic tool and its poor appeal among scientific researchers."

    There seems to be some effort to move away from 'a feeling' to a more substantive method of diagnosis. On method seems to be documentation of irrational behavior coupled with other methods. IIRC from my 4 psych courses, assessing irrational behavior
    can sometimes be difficult. In the case of Stalin, murdering ~300 top military and political leaders and then realizing that there is no one skilled enough to command your armies would qualify as irrational in most circles. ( Then again, the Great Purge
    where ~700K ppl were killed might also qualify as irrational behavior).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Mar 14 21:34:39 2022
    On 3/14/2022 9:30 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/14/2022 8:09 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/





    I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
    Then I saw "American Greatness", and I guess otherwise.

    Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
    who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
    Modern propagandists have studied them.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."


    "Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
    North Korea, and Iran in check"

    Keeping dictatorships "in check" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
    appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn't a good
    long-term strategy.

    "and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?"

    We've given up on the word "peace" as a goal and the word "stability"
    is used to mean "continual armed conflicts but ones we're familiar
    with."

    As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

    Rule of thumb is the Middle East is "stable" when you're bombing it, and "unstable" when it's bombing you.

    <https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-have-bombed-yemen-more-than-bush-and-obama-combined-2020-10>


    Or in the case of Gaza and the West Bank, they call it "A period of
    relative calm" when Israel is conducting fire missions only every week,
    which then gets "broken" when someone in Gaza fires a rocket.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Mon Mar 14 21:30:45 2022
    On 3/14/2022 8:09 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
    On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/




    I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
    Then I saw "American Greatness", and I guess otherwise.

    Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
    who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
    Modern propagandists have studied them.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."


    "Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
    North Korea, and Iran in check"

    Keeping dictatorships "in check" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
    appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn't a good
    long-term strategy.

    "and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?"

    We've given up on the word "peace" as a goal and the word "stability"
    is used to mean "continual armed conflicts but ones we're familiar with."

    As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

    Rule of thumb is the Middle East is "stable" when you're bombing it, and "unstable" when it's bombing you.

    <https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-have-bombed-yemen-more-than-bush-and-obama-combined-2020-10>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Tue Mar 15 01:25:47 2022
    On 15/03/22 00:41, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :( >>>>>>>>>>>

    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe. >>>
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.

    Probably Goebbles:

    .<https://www.azquotes.com/author/5626-Joseph_Goebbels>

    Yup!

    Reading his quotes has relevance to what we see (or choose
    not to see) around us in the past few years :(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 14 21:55:04 2022
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 18:17:31 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps <jjhudak@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:13:06 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
    <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid >> >>>> Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the "praecox feeling" >> >>>> in Stalin's presence.

    I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I >> >>>> met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It's not at all subtle, it's like
    being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
    person just isn't right in the head. When I later recounted this
    experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
    that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

    +1

    I've met two people for which that I'd make that claim; one is diagnosed >> >>> schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don't have first-hand
    confirmation.

    [I discount numerous folks I knew at school as "being odd" was sort of >> >>> The Norm]

    Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

    And the environment/situation was suggestive of "experimental oddness"... >> >young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as "adults".

    Part of "relating" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
    And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life "as is"
    (or, as they were portraying themselves).

    However, using this sort of "feeling" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious; >> >>> I'd use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

    Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
    itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
    not need to say anything for this to happen.

    Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
    work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
    out of the car. "Something wrong" but no way to describe *what*.

    Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
    subtle.


    I don't know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
    don't get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

    This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
    of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

    Yes. "Feeling" is the right (informal) term. "Vibe".

    I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
    personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
    willing to "suspend" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
    factor into your final assessment of another.

    More to the point, it's a part of the ancient brain systems that
    determine who *not* to trust.


    Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
    on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
    somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

    Yup. My point was as to the "psychiatrist's" comment. I'd not consider
    such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
    "feelings" for a diagnosis.

    Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
    and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
    of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
    are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
    me.

    Praecox feeling has a long history.

    .<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/>


    Joe Gwinn
    Yes, first discussed in 1941.

    .<https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/494088>

    An interesting passage:
    "Thus, the praecox feeling implies in a single concept, denoted by a single term, at least two different gnoseological poles: a subjective one and an objective one. In our opinion, this distinction, even if somehow factitious, is critical to the
    process of understanding the criticisms of the praecox feeling as a diagnostic tool and its poor appeal among scientific researchers."

    Wow. I take that word salad to mean that they have no idea how this
    works, or why it exists.

    It is in the shared experience of mankind that one has inexplicable
    instincts, instincts that are correct often enough that it's a bad
    idea to ignore them. This ought to be enough.


    There seems to be some effort to move away from 'a feeling' to a more substantive method of diagnosis. On method seems to be documentation of irrational behavior coupled with other methods. IIRC from my 4 psych courses, assessing irrational behavior
    can sometimes be difficult. In the case of Stalin, murdering ~300 top military and political leaders and then realizing that there is no one skilled enough to command your armies would qualify as irrational in most circles. ( Then again, the Great Purge
    where ~700K ppl were killed might also qualify as irrational behavior).

    I'd be careful of that word "rational", because it easily leads to
    assuming that people who don't agree must be crazy.

    There are all kinds of counterexamples, and both contestants in a
    debate may be right - the other is crazy. But different crazy.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From three_jeeps@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Mon Mar 14 18:37:18 2022
    On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 8:41:36 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a
    newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a
    fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see
    Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :( >>>>>>>>>>

    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news?

    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe. >>
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.
    Probably Goebbles:

    .<https://www.azquotes.com/author/5626-Joseph_Goebbels>


    Joe Gwinn
    Yes, it was Goebbels. It was the hallmark of his approach. It was documented but I can't put my finger of the source...
    One example, as part of the Nazification of the public, was the reorienting of the art message (one Hitler particularly liked). Modern art and impressionism was labled as 'anti Nazi' and confiscated. In its place, in art galleries and various other
    outlets, statues and of German men and women in poses of strength along with Hitler were the norm.
    Of course the Nazis amassed millions in riches having pantings from Degas, Cezan, Manet, Renoir, Monet, etc....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Mar 14 19:08:42 2022
    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 9:01:59 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,

    The Trump-inspired invasion of the Capitol building with the explicit aim of prevent Congress from ratifying Biden as the elected incoming president would have been a coup if it had succeeded. Trump was as ineffectual as ever and it didn't. He tried to
    stage a coup but didn't put enough effort into making it effective.

    The fact that he hasn't been prosecuted for his part in the farce is somewhat worrying. Presumably the prosecutors are lining up a series of easy prosecutions before going after Trump for inspiring the criminal activities whose succesful prosecution they
    will then be able to point to.

    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Inspiring a violent invasion of the Capitol building wasn't.

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Mon Mar 14 19:37:20 2022
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


    Mikek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left.

    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for >>>>>>>>>>> obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He >>>>>>>>>>> had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no >>>>>>>>>>> choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :(


    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no >>>>>>>>>> need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there >>>>>>>>> are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he >>>>>>>>> ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.


    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray
    visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    I haven't seen anything to that effect about Putin.
    If true, it may even be rational /for him/ to be
    like that!

    As rational as shelling civilians in Ukraine.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 08:55:41 2022
    On 14/03/2022 23:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner


    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    The assassination of the Iranian general may have been careful to avoid immediate civilian casualties, but it was hardly careful in the wider
    sense - it was typical Trump childish lashing out.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,

    He tried his best, with his usual weasel wording to avoid blame. "Some
    people are saying we should storm Capitol and take it by force. /I'm/
    not saying that - but /some/ people are. I'm just saying."

    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House.

    He stole uncounted (literally) millions when he was in office. It's
    been a hard couple of days at the office - time for a holiday again.
    Where shall I go? I know - a Trump resort, taking hundreds of staff
    with me and paying top-dollar for it all. That's more state money
    funnelled into Trump coffers.

    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional? Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people
    that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional. It is number
    one on the to-do list of any would-be dictator.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to David Brown on Tue Mar 15 08:59:40 2022
    A blowhard dweeb from a squeaky little country...


    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 14/03/2022 23:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner


    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe.

    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    The assassination of the Iranian general may have been careful to avoid immediate civilian casualties, but it was hardly careful in the wider
    sense - it was typical Trump childish lashing out.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,

    He tried his best, with his usual weasel wording to avoid blame. "Some people are saying we should storm Capitol and take it by force. /I'm/
    not saying that - but /some/ people are. I'm just saying."

    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House.

    He stole uncounted (literally) millions when he was in office. It's
    been a hard couple of days at the office - time for a holiday again.
    Where shall I go? I know - a Trump resort, taking hundreds of staff
    with me and paying top-dollar for it all. That's more state money
    funnelled into Trump coffers.

    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional? Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people
    that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional. It is number
    one on the to-do list of any would-be dictator.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Tue Mar 15 02:29:46 2022
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:



    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people
    that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Mar 15 09:55:45 2022
    On 15/03/22 02:37, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:16:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 01:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:20:30 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:29:24 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:25:39 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 10:40:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:33:25 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:05:59 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:33:47 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 07:07:51 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 16:53:33 -0600, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


                                                 Mikek


    https://www.voanews.com/a/clouds-over-merkel-s-legacy-as-russian-invasion-lays-flaws-bare/6481942.html


    Diplomacy is a very poor substitute for common sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Trump, while thoroughly obnoxious, had and used CS. Being a newcomer
    to politics and diplomacy, he still had some left. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Unfortunately, in the case of that Ukrainian president, being a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> newcomer to politics and diplomacy has resulted in the current fiasco
    - that we're all paying for, one way or another.

    No, the problem is Putin. His is Dictator For Life. His entire life
    has been politics and power. He is totally insulated from reality and
    cares nothing about actual people. He keeps people at absurd physical
    distances.

    The US is smart in having term limits for top leaders. We need more.

    Power corrupts. And destroys common sense.

    As you know, John, I always defer to you on electronic matters (for
    obvious reasons) but when it comes to geopolitics, you're making a >>>>>>>>>>>> fatal error.
    The real problem stems from the breach of an undertaking NATO made to
    Russia after the old Soviet Union collapsed 30 odd years ago. Russia
    sees its buffer states being absorbed by NATO in an insideous Eastward
    march. Ukraine cozying up the West was the last straw for Putin. He
    had to draw the line somewhere and now we are where we are. I see >>>>>>>>>>>> Putin as being in the same position JFK was in in '62 and he has no
    choice but to say 'enough is enough.' We're pushing him into a >>>>>>>>>>>> position where he may simply have to push the button. :( >>>>>>>>>>>

    The Russians could be peaceful and prosperous europeans. There is no
    need for NATO or for a buffer zone.

    Russia could cozy up to the West.

    It won't. There's no appetite for neo-liberalism in Russia. And there
    are far more belicose actors waiting in the wings to oust Putin if he
    ever showed any weakness. I mean *real* ultra-nationalist nut cases of
    the worst kind. We should be grateful we only have the moderate, >>>>>>>>>> level-headed Putin to deal with. Don't fall for the CRAP they say >>>>>>>>>> about him on fake news channels like CNN.

    Are those bombed-out buildings and dead people in Ukraine fake news? >>>>>>>>
    That's how they try to manipulate us, though. The triumph of emotion >>>>>>>> over reason. Show a picture of a crying child or a child's toy and >>>>>>>> they get exactly the reaction they want from us. We *demand*
    retribution!

    How about a child blown to bits? Cheap emotional manipulation?


    How about those 50-foot long conference room tables?

    What of them?

    The guy is a loonie germophobe. So was Hitler.

    So is Trump.

    Without tanks.

    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe. >>>
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.


    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray
    visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    I haven't seen anything to that effect about Putin.
    If true, it may even be rational /for him/ to be
    like that!

    As rational as shelling civilians in Ukraine.

    That's a different issue, as you well know.

    If being a germophobe is loonie (your word), then
    that is true for both Putin and Trump.

    To apply it to one but not the other is irrational.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Mar 15 13:58:03 2022
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:



    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.


    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public. It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as
    hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or throughout the previous months.

    The point of the First Amendment is to prevent the state imposing laws
    such as Putin's 15 year jail sentence for saying there is a war on. And
    it's a good thing that there is such a limitation on the abuse of state
    power (and a sad thing that it is sometimes necessary).



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people
    that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.


    It is "the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes
    allegiance". As Trump did in his attacks on the USA. "Sedition" would
    perhaps be a more accurate term for many of his actions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Mar 15 06:14:58 2022
    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:30:01 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    As Judge Learned Hand famously pointed out, "free speech" doesn't extend to shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

    Trump was lying about the imaginary electoral fraud that he wanted to claim had cost him the 2020 election. He might have been free to make the claim, but he's stuck with the responsibility of lying to the electorate, and using fraudulent claims to raise
    money from his political supporters. That kind of speech may be "free" but it was criminally irresponsible. To the extent that it inspired the violent invasion of the Capitol Building it does look very like a treasonable activity.

    Most people would call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.

    "the crime of helping your country’s enemies or attempting to illegally remove its government:"

    That's from the online Cambridge Dictionary of English. The Complete Oxford is rather more prolix.

    The Trump-inspired invasion of the Capitol Building was an illegal move intended to prevent Joe Biden and Kamala Harris from assuming the political offices of President and Vice-President. They weren't in office at that point, so you might argue that
    technically, they weren't actually being removed, but that would clearly be a quibble.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 16:47:05 2022
    Besides aggressive NATO expansion, another reason Russia attacked Ukraine
    is its Nazi problem. Russia was screwed by Adolf Hitler at the start of
    World War II. Russia was deeply wounded in that war. Russia hasn't
    forgotten that. Apparently some of Germany's Nazis settled in Ukraine...


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary- ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

    "Commentary: Ukraine's neo-Nazi problem"


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters- ukraine-neo-nazis

    "The battalion's far-right volunteers' desire to 'bring the fight to Kiev'
    is a danger to post-conflict stability"


    https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

    "Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine"


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955

    "Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict"


    https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/

    "beginning in 2014, when the Maidan uprising brought a new government to Ukraine, the country has been erecting monuments to Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators at an astounding pace"


    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real- problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

    "Ukraine's Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn't
    Write This Headline)"


    ...and on and on

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to David Brown on Tue Mar 15 17:08:40 2022
    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

    A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First
    Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

    In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!
    It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it's going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
    thrown in jail for lying! Doesn't matter that sometimes politicians are convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
    crime too, but law enforcement couldn't care less when a lawmaker lies to
    us. I won't provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don't
    want to encourage America-haters like "David Brown".

    Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don't care who is
    hating who.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 17:09:26 2022
    An America-hating Australian cannibal leftist...


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Tue Mar 15 10:30:15 2022
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:



    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.


    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.


    It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First
    Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as
    hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or >throughout the previous months.

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    You define "cronies" and then find him guilty of something.


    The point of the First Amendment is to prevent the state imposing laws
    such as Putin's 15 year jail sentence for saying there is a war on. And
    it's a good thing that there is such a limitation on the abuse of state
    power (and a sad thing that it is sometimes necessary).



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people >>> that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.


    It is "the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes >allegiance".

    OK, you are using it as a slur, not a crime:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

    iow saying things that you don't like, or anything said by someone you
    don't like.


    As Trump did in his attacks on the USA. "Sedition" would
    perhaps be a more accurate term for many of his actions.


    Only by your standards. Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    The guys who wrote the Constitution were very wise.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 15 20:48:11 2022
    On 15/03/2022 18:08, John Doe wrote:
    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

    A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

    Well, here in Norway we have an education system that aims to educate
    our youth. Over in the USA, they consider it an achievement if the kid
    is alive and not in jail by the end.

    Most Americans - and that apparently includes John Larkin here - do not understand the First Amendment but are so convinced that their
    misconception is correct, they have not bothered to read it or any
    explanation of it.


    In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!

    The First Amendment is not relevant to what the government may or may
    not say. It only says that - within limits - it can't stop civilians
    saying what they want.

    It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it's going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
    thrown in jail for lying!

    Citizens don't get jailed in the USA for lying (except under oath).
    They might get jailed for inciting crimes, defamation, or otherwise
    being a public nuisance or adversely affecting people's lives or safety.

    Doesn't matter that sometimes politicians are
    convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
    crime too, but law enforcement couldn't care less when a lawmaker lies to
    us. I won't provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don't want to encourage America-haters like "David Brown".

    I am not an "America-hater". I dislike and disapprove of certain
    aspects of the country. There are lots of good and great things about
    it too. The First Amendment, for example, is a great thing (as I said)
    - but it helps to know what it says.


    Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don't care who is hating who.


    Like Trump. (He didn't start the division, but he certainly encouraged
    it more than anyone else.)

    Personally, I'd much rather see America united - it could be so much
    better a place than it is, and do so much more good for Americans and
    the rest of the world. If you lot took a break from hating your
    neighbours so much and worked together, Putin wouldn't be invading
    Ukraine, he'd be booking space on your next flight to your Mars colony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 21:07:40 2022
    On 15/03/2022 18:30, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:



    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.


    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.


    It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?


    No.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with.

    Why on earth do you think that?

    The First
    Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    No, it does not. It allows you to express yourself - within limits -
    without impedance or persecution from the state.


    It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as
    hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or
    throughout the previous months.

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    The president does not have the same rights as a civilian. And no, he
    did not ask for peaceful protest.


    You define "cronies" and then find him guilty of something.

    It's up to your courts to determine if he is guilty or not. I gather
    that's a work in progress.



    The point of the First Amendment is to prevent the state imposing laws
    such as Putin's 15 year jail sentence for saying there is a war on. And
    it's a good thing that there is such a limitation on the abuse of state
    power (and a sad thing that it is sometimes necessary).



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people >>>> that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.


    It is "the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes
    allegiance".

    OK, you are using it as a slur, not a crime:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

    I read that page. The president of the USA owes allegiance to the
    people of the USA, and to the state. He worked to undermine that state
    by falsely and maliciously fabricating the idea of election fraud, and
    inciting attacks on both individuals and institutions of the state. I
    am not a lawyer, but I can't see how that is not treason.


    iow saying things that you don't like, or anything said by someone you
    don't like.


    I don't like much of what I have ever heard Trump saying - people are
    free to have different opinions, and free to make mistakes, but
    knowingly and intentionally lying does not sit well with me.

    I disagree with quite a bit of what /you/ write, but I am confident that
    I have never accused you of criminal behaviour or treason, or made any suggestion that what you write should be criminalised.


    As Trump did in his attacks on the USA. "Sedition" would
    perhaps be a more accurate term for many of his actions.


    Only by your standards. Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    Free speech allows /civilians/ to go to MAGA and BLM marches and
    rallies, as long as they don't overstep certain limits - for example,
    racist speech (in any direction) is not protected.

    The president - just like any other elected official or representative
    of authorities, such as police officers or military personnel - are far
    more restricted. The president represents the country, not himself (or
    perhaps one day, herself).


    The guys who wrote the Constitution were very wise.


    The guys who wrote the Constitution came up with some good ideas, and
    had fine modern democratic principles for the time. But they wrote it
    long ago, without being able to predict today's society, how the country
    would change, and how people would abuse it. There's no doubt that it
    was a good start, but religious adherence to outdated documents is no
    way to run a country.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to David Brown on Tue Mar 15 21:06:22 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    A clueless America-bashing troll trying to justify
    its idiotic prior comments...

    --
    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 20:48:11 +0100
    Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
    Lines: 62
    Message-ID: <t0qqhr$o8h$1@dont-email.me>
    References: <ibas2hl0bngj1frhiqe1a1vqd76cgj0qtl@4ax.com> <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <
    766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0pgpt$mlp$1@dont-email.me> <
    8um03htskukkmcl8d0p8be368ttsecggn5@4ax.com> <t0q2gr$5rd$1@dont-email.me> <t0qh6n$kkv$4@dont-email.me>
    Mime-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    Injection-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 19:48:11 -0000 (UTC)
    Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="74e1ea8664b53f551826a11c7d7a860b"; logging-data="24849"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19gvuFL8WBQP2BMAFXtC3siY1UMD9iLpns="
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:qccyBoP7KcwZ6AI/tNxd9dWKgy4=
    In-Reply-To: <t0qh6n$kkv$4@dont-email.me>
    Content-Language: en-GB
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663153

    On 15/03/2022 18:08, John Doe wrote:
    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech. >>> It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

    A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First
    Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

    Well, here in Norway we have an education system that aims to educate
    our youth. Over in the USA, they consider it an achievement if the kid
    is alive and not in jail by the end.

    Most Americans - and that apparently includes John Larkin here - do not understand the First Amendment but are so convinced that their
    misconception is correct, they have not bothered to read it or any explanation of it.


    In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!

    The First Amendment is not relevant to what the government may or may
    not say. It only says that - within limits - it can't stop civilians
    saying what they want.

    It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it's >> going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
    thrown in jail for lying!

    Citizens don't get jailed in the USA for lying (except under oath).
    They might get jailed for inciting crimes, defamation, or otherwise
    being a public nuisance or adversely affecting people's lives or safety.

    Doesn't matter that sometimes politicians are
    convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces >> while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
    crime too, but law enforcement couldn't care less when a lawmaker lies to
    us. I won't provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don't
    want to encourage America-haters like "David Brown".

    I am not an "America-hater". I dislike and disapprove of certain
    aspects of the country. There are lots of good and great things about
    it too. The First Amendment, for example, is a great thing (as I said)
    - but it helps to know what it says.


    Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don't care who is
    hating who.


    Like Trump. (He didn't start the division, but he certainly encouraged
    it more than anyone else.)

    Personally, I'd much rather see America united - it could be so much
    better a place than it is, and do so much more good for Americans and
    the rest of the world. If you lot took a break from hating your
    neighbours so much and worked together, Putin wouldn't be invading
    Ukraine, he'd be booking space on your next flight to your Mars colony.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 21:35:46 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:06:22 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    NukgNVCc3/Ya

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 17:37:23 2022
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:37:20 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    [snip]
    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe. >>>
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup,
    or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.


    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray
    visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    I haven't seen anything to that effect about Putin.
    If true, it may even be rational /for him/ to be
    like that!

    As rational as shelling civilians in Ukraine.

    Shelling civilians in Ukraine is ruthless for sure, but unfortunately
    it isn't irrational. Analysis:

    The pre-attack population of Ukraine is 43.3 million. Assuming that
    1/5 are able-bodied military-age men, that's 8.7 million. Russia
    might have in total 0.9 million soldiers of one description or
    another. Given what Russia just did to Ukraine, it's quite unlikely
    that the Ukrainian people will ever accept Russian rule, and there are
    ~ten times more armed Ukrainian men than Russian soldiers.


    According to "How to deal with the unappeasable Putin", Walter
    Russell Mead, published in the Wall Street Journal on 11 March 2022,
    Putin is trying to recreate the old Soviet Union, but this project is
    doomed to failure because the Russian economy isn't remotely large
    enough to support anything of the kind.

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)>


    Putin appears to be following the war-plan he used to win in Syria.
    The new objective seems to be to freeze and starve and bomb the
    Ukrainian population into submission; the Russians have done this
    before (Holodormor). This is already quite ugly, and if it continues
    at anything like the current level, and with Western support, Russia
    may be unable to sustain the war long enough to overwhelm the
    Ukrainians before Russia runs out of money and soldiers.

    That is the hope, anyway. We will soon find out.

    So longer term, the West needs to make it hideously expensive for the
    Russians, putting Russia into a cold-war Containment for something
    like 20 years. This will also discourage China, by far the larger
    problem, with by far more to lose.


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Tue Mar 15 21:37:27 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx14.ams4.POSTED!
    not-for-mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <ibas2hl0bngj1frhiqe1a1vqd76cgj0qtl@4ax.com> <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <
    766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0pgpt$mlp$1@dont-email.me> <
    8um03htskukkmcl8d0p8be368ttsecggn5@4ax.com> <t0q2gr$5rd$1@dont-email.me> <t0qh6n$kkv$4@dont-email.me> <t0qqhr$o8h$1@dont-email.me> <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me>
    Lines: 22
    Message-ID: <SE7YJ.213781$833.183507@usenetxs.com>
    X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:35:46 UTC
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:35:46 GMT
    X-Received-Bytes: 1913
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663157 free.spam:17545

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:06:22 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    NukgNVCc3/Ya




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 21:38:56 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:37:27 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0r0un$de1$1@dont-email.me>).

    Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
    (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET has been 52.5% of its posts contributing "nothing except
    insults" to USENET.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    gzb+XVoPdlD9

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Tue Mar 15 21:56:45 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Apparently Zelensky is an Israeli agent. He wants to rid the world of
    Nazis who fled to Ukraine.

    Why else would the IDIOT talk and talk and talk while Ukraine burns? Why
    else would it not prepare for the obviously impending invasion? He's
    destroying as much of Ukraine as he possibly can.

    He isn't stupid, he knows nobody will help start World War III. He's a
    freaking actor.

    Russia is not trying "to freeze and starve and bomb the Ukrainian
    population into submission", THAT'S PROPAGANDA, it's trying to prevent AGGRESSIVE NATO expansion. NATO is no longer a defensive organization,
    it's trying to establish a first strike capability against Russia. That's
    why it's expanding to Russia's border countries.

    NATO IS IGNORING THE WARNINGS FROM HENRY KISSINGER AND OTHER WESTERN
    DIPLOMATS. Consequently Ukraine is getting wrecked.

    STOP SERVING THE KOOL-AID...

    --
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 16:37:23 -0500
    From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:37:23 -0400
    Message-ID: <agu13h1m0q2eh14vrs2cigk4b9junmsl6s@4ax.com>
    References: <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@
    dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com>
    User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    Lines: 87
    X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
    X-Trace: sv3-xq9/ZIsoyjnt0bh87Q1qUCHlqjS9QCNKdCdt9Zu3SHCrk5lfzPyAH+tNuDCHjZq0raY6jKBMREqv11k!OdWKiLGO6drbzvEUfBzzF2PsD+tCvXamWKeOiP8MKKCCxdiB4Rb6zLpr+PX/9QvidUfjRc4=
    X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
    X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
    X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
    X-Original-Bytes: 4880
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663159

    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:37:20 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 14/03/22 14:00, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    [snip]
    Que?

    Trump was a germophobe with tanks and worse, and is still a germophobe. >>>>
    I can't recall his rolling tanks against people, especially civilians.
    The few drone strikes seem to have been done carefully.

    Never said he /used/ his tanks.

    The adults in the room avoided that. They did the same when
    Nixon was drunk and ordered an attack on the USSR. At great
    risk to themselves, they "delayed implementing" the order until
    the next day - when Nixon had sobered up.


    And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn't stage a coup, >>>> or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    "If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

    "If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth."

    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

    Who /was/ it who wrote those? Bloody good propagandist.


    I know some germophobes. It's weird and usually irrational, but Trump
    didn't build disinfection tunnels everywhere, and quarantine and spray >>>> visitors, and didn't distance himself like Putin does.

    I haven't seen anything to that effect about Putin.
    If true, it may even be rational /for him/ to be
    like that!

    As rational as shelling civilians in Ukraine.

    Shelling civilians in Ukraine is ruthless for sure, but unfortunately
    it isn't irrational. Analysis:

    The pre-attack population of Ukraine is 43.3 million. Assuming that
    1/5 are able-bodied military-age men, that's 8.7 million. Russia
    might have in total 0.9 million soldiers of one description or
    another. Given what Russia just did to Ukraine, it's quite unlikely
    that the Ukrainian people will ever accept Russian rule, and there are
    ~ten times more armed Ukrainian men than Russian soldiers.


    According to "How to deal with the unappeasable Putin", Walter
    Russell Mead, published in the Wall Street Journal on 11 March 2022,
    Putin is trying to recreate the old Soviet Union, but this project is
    doomed to failure because the Russian economy isn't remotely large
    enough to support anything of the kind.

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)>


    Putin appears to be following the war-plan he used to win in Syria.
    The new objective seems to be to freeze and starve and bomb the
    Ukrainian population into submission; the Russians have done this
    before (Holodormor). This is already quite ugly, and if it continues
    at anything like the current level, and with Western support, Russia
    may be unable to sustain the war long enough to overwhelm the
    Ukrainians before Russia runs out of money and soldiers.

    That is the hope, anyway. We will soon find out.

    So longer term, the West needs to make it hideously expensive for the Russians, putting Russia into a cold-war Containment for something
    like 20 years. This will also discourage China, by far the larger
    problem, with by far more to lose.


    Joe Gwinn



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 21:58:22 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:45 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    OpagIqNSsLsn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Tue Mar 15 21:58:40 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx10.ams4.POSTED!
    not-for-mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@
    dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <agu13h1m0q2eh14vrs2cigk4b9junmsl6s@4ax.com> <
    t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me>
    Lines: 25
    Message-ID: <2_7YJ.91420$an1.44018@usenetxs.com>
    X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:22 UTC
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:22 GMT
    X-Received-Bytes: 1907
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663163 free.spam:17549

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:45 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    OpagIqNSsLsn




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 21:59:28 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:40 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    b1+ATlYI8FEk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Tue Mar 15 22:13:49 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx04.ams4.POSTED!not-for-
    mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@
    dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <agu13h1m0q2eh14vrs2cigk4b9junmsl6s@4ax.com> <
    t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me> <2_7YJ.91420$an1.44018@usenetxs.com> <t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me>
    Lines: 25
    Message-ID: <4%7YJ.343277$2c1.311462@usenetxs.com>
    X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:59:28 UTC
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:59:28 GMT
    X-Received-Bytes: 1975
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663165 free.spam:17551

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:40 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    b1+ATlYI8FEk




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 15 22:17:51 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:13:49 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0r32s$u4b$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    c7rWAd+gjzkZ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Tue Mar 15 15:21:12 2022
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:07:40 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 18:30, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:



    Questioning
    the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>>>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.


    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.


    It prevents the
    state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech. >>> It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
    says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?


    No.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with.

    Why on earth do you think that?

    The First
    Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    No, it does not. It allows you to express yourself - within limits -
    without impedance or persecution from the state.


    It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as
    hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or
    throughout the previous months.

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    The president does not have the same rights as a civilian. And no, he
    did not ask for peaceful protest.


    You define "cronies" and then find him guilty of something.

    It's up to your courts to determine if he is guilty or not. I gather
    that's a work in progress.



    The point of the First Amendment is to prevent the state imposing laws
    such as Putin's 15 year jail sentence for saying there is a war on. And >>> it's a good thing that there is such a limitation on the abuse of state
    power (and a sad thing that it is sometimes necessary).



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people >>>>> that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.


    It is "the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes
    allegiance".

    OK, you are using it as a slur, not a crime:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

    I read that page. The president of the USA owes allegiance to the
    people of the USA, and to the state. He worked to undermine that state
    by falsely and maliciously fabricating the idea of election fraud, and >inciting attacks on both individuals and institutions of the state. I
    am not a lawyer, but I can't see how that is not treason.


    iow saying things that you don't like, or anything said by someone you
    don't like.


    I don't like much of what I have ever heard Trump saying - people are
    free to have different opinions, and free to make mistakes, but
    knowingly and intentionally lying does not sit well with me.

    I disagree with quite a bit of what /you/ write, but I am confident that
    I have never accused you of criminal behaviour or treason, or made any >suggestion that what you write should be criminalised.


    As Trump did in his attacks on the USA. "Sedition" would
    perhaps be a more accurate term for many of his actions.


    Only by your standards. Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    Free speech allows /civilians/ to go to MAGA and BLM marches and
    rallies, as long as they don't overstep certain limits - for example,
    racist speech (in any direction) is not protected.

    I think it is.


    The president - just like any other elected official or representative
    of authorities, such as police officers or military personnel - are far
    more restricted. The president represents the country, not himself (or >perhaps one day, herself).

    I don't see any such restrictions in the Constitution.



    The guys who wrote the Constitution were very wise.


    The guys who wrote the Constitution came up with some good ideas, and
    had fine modern democratic principles for the time. But they wrote it
    long ago, without being able to predict today's society, how the country >would change, and how people would abuse it.

    They understood people and social dynamics. That hasn't changed much.

    There's no doubt that it
    was a good start, but religious adherence to outdated documents is no
    way to run a country.

    The Constitution includes an amendment process. It has been used many
    times.

    Sounds like you are opposed the the concept of a constitution, and
    specifically tolerance of other opinions.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 15 17:54:20 2022
    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 9:47:16 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Besides aggressive NATO expansion, another reason Russia attacked Ukraine
    is its Nazi problem.

    NATO expansion is guaranteed as long as Russia attacks neighbors.

    Russia was screwed by Adolf Hitler at the start of
    World War II.

    False; at the start, they divided up Poland, completely amicably.

    Russia was deeply wounded in that war. Russia hasn't
    forgotten that. Apparently some of Germany's Nazis settled in Ukraine...

    War also wounded Germany; have you ever seen the aerial footage of Berlin in1945,
    featuring lots of brick piles that used to be buildings? Russia took damage, true,
    but also propogandized for decades afterward, building up a boogeyman for some reason or other. Maybe for a European war in 2022?

    It's slightly more credible than cannibal left-handers. Slightly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 18:35:10 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as >hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or >throughout the previous months.

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    And told his supporters that they'd have to fight for their rights, which isn't exactly a peaceful activity.

    You define "cronies" and then find him guilty of something.

    With any luck the US attorney-general will get around to doing that.

    The point of the First Amendment is to prevent the state imposing laws >such as Putin's 15 year jail sentence for saying there is a war on. And >it's a good thing that there is such a limitation on the abuse of state >power (and a sad thing that it is sometimes necessary).



    Most people would
    call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people >>> that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

    Look up the definition of treason.

    It is "the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes >allegiance".

    OK, you are using it as a slur, not a crime:

    The invasion of the Capitol Building was attacking a "state authority" - namely Congress - which Trump had sworn to protect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

    iow saying things that you don't like, or anything said by someone you don't like.

    Nobody sane would like things said that let to a violent incident like the invasion of the Capitol Building.

    As Trump did in his attacks on the USA. "Sedition" would perhaps be a more accurate term for many of his actions.

    Only by your standards. Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    It doesn't allow the kind of free speech that leads to violent incidents like the invasion of the Capitol Building.

    The guys who wrote the Constitution were very wise.

    But they didn't consult Ben Franklin or Thomas Paine, who were somewhat wiser. The US Constitution is a moderate enlightenment document, and wiser people ended up following the radical enlightenment path which is to say doing the job properly, rather
    than giving the existing fat cats concessions that made them happy (and kept them rich).

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 18:22:00 2022
    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 3:21:24 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:07:40 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 18:30, John Larkin wrote:

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    The president does not have the same rights as a civilian. And no, he
    did not ask for peaceful protest.

    ... Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    Free speech allows /civilians/ to go to MAGA and BLM marches and
    rallies, as long as they don't overstep certain limits - for example, >racist speech (in any direction) is not protected.
    I think it is.

    The president - just like any other elected official or representative
    of authorities, such as police officers or military personnel - are far >more restricted. The president represents the country, not himself (or >perhaps one day, herself).

    I don't see any such restrictions in the Constitution.

    It's in there. The president's oath of office calls for him to faithfully execute his duties, including diplomacy (and to do that, diplomatic
    language is essential). That's because, 'the president represents the country'.

    He also, as commander of armed forces, needs to avoid
    sending death squads after citizens (in the tradition of 'who will
    rid me of this turbulent priest' as attributed to Henry II).

    A faithful execution of duties is a very real constraint that we
    lay on all Presidents; that oath is a Constitutional requirement
    that no President ought to forget.

    Try reading the Constitution again; you missed some stuff.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Mar 15 19:31:34 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:21:24 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:07:40 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 18:30, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    <snip>

    The president - just like any other elected official or representative
    of authorities, such as police officers or military personnel - are far >more restricted. The president represents the country, not himself (or >perhaps one day, herself).

    I don't see any such restrictions in the Constitution.

    Your intellectual inadequacies are unfortunate, but they really do exist.

    The guys who wrote the Constitution were very wise.

    The guys who wrote the Constitution came up with some good ideas, and
    had fine modern democratic principles for the time. But they wrote it
    long ago, without being able to predict today's society, how the country >would change, and how people would abuse it.

    They understood people and social dynamics. That hasn't changed much.

    And they also understood that they owned the country, which gave them the right to run it. That hasn't worked out as well.

    There's no doubt that it was a good start, but religious adherence to outdated documents is no way to run a country.

    The Constitution includes an amendment process. It has been used many times.

    But a lot more needs to be done. Proportional representation - which leads to multiparty democracy and coalition governments, has been adopted by a lot of other countries, and does seem to offer better outcomes that you get in the USA and the UK.
    Australia flirted with it, but not for the House of Representatives, so we are still stuck with Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee.

    Sounds like you are opposed the the concept of a constitution, and specifically tolerance of other opinions.

    Obviously untrue. John Larkin does post some very silly stuff.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 15 19:17:31 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 8:56:52 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:37:20 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 00:19:24 +0000, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 14/03/22 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:57:06 +0000, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 14/03/22 14:00, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    <snip>

    So longer term, the West needs to make it hideously expensive for the Russians, putting Russia into a cold-war Containment for something
    like 20 years. This will also discourage China, by far the larger
    problem, with by far more to lose.

    Apparently Zelensky is an Israeli agent.

    John Doe has finally realised that he is Jewish. That doesn't make him an Israeli agent. He doesn't seem to be an observant Jew, and he never made any fuss about being Jewish.

    He wants to rid the world of Nazis who fled to Ukraine.

    No sane Nazi would have fled to the Ukraine. They weren't popular anywhere in the USSR after the WW2, and wouldn't have lasted long if they'd been recognised as ex-Nazi's. The current generation of Ukranian Nazi's look more like everybody else's Nazi's -
    anti-social creeps who want to get noticed by adopting the most repugnant ideology on offer - rather like John Doe.

    Why else would the IDIOT talk and talk and talk while Ukraine burns? Why else would it not prepare for the obviously impending invasion? He's destroying as much of Ukraine as he possibly can.

    He's doing what presidents do - public relations and passing out medals. He's got staff to do the nitty gritty, and they managed to import a lot of anti-tank weapons before the Russians actually attacked. The Russians have been attacking for a fortnight
    and they don't seem to have captured any cities yet, though they have destroyed a lot of buildings, including a few hospitals. The Ukranian defense does seem to be working.

    The international economic sanctions may bankrupt Russia fast enough for this to be enough.

    He isn't stupid, he knows nobody will help start World War III. He's a freaking actor.

    So was Reagan. Zelensky seems to be whole lot smarter than Reagan ever was. He seems to be able to write parts, as well as playing them.

    Russia is not trying "to freeze and starve and bomb the Ukrainian
    population into submission", THAT'S PROPAGANDA, it's trying to prevent AGGRESSIVE NATO expansion.

    But it does seem to think that " freezing and starving and bombing the Ukrainian population into submission" is a way to do that. It's acting as a NATO recruiting agent, but doesn't seem to realise it, any more than John Doe does.

    NATO is no longer a defensive organization, it's trying to establish a first strike capability against Russia.

    Why would it need to? At least two NATO countries have got ballistic missile submarines, which gives them first and second strike capability against Russia.

    That's why it's expanding to Russia's border countries.

    Why would it bother? Intercontinental ballistic missiles can launched from pretty much anywhere. When they were more reliant on intermediate range ballistic missiles this might have been worth doing, but that was decades ago.

    In reality, NATO has always been a defensive organisation, and Russia's antics are emphasising that it's neighbours need all the defense they can get.

    NATO IS IGNORING THE WARNINGS FROM HENRY KISSINGER AND OTHER WESTERN DIPLOMATS. Consequently Ukraine is getting wrecked.

    It's Russia that is wrecking the Ukraine at the moment. Putin may be claiming that he's acting against NATO, but it is obviosu nonsense

    STOP SERVING THE KOOL-AID...

    John Doe's Kool-Aid would be perfectly lethal, if anyone was silly enough to swallow it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:25:11 2022
    An America-bashing Australian...


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Wed Mar 16 05:26:47 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    A babbling idiot...

    --
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    X-Received: by 2002:a37:d241:0:b0:67b:3360:3644 with SMTP id f62-20020a37d241000000b0067b33603644mr19683347qkj.274.1647393721230; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
    X-Received: by 2002:a0d:efc7:0:b0:2db:d952:1f7e with SMTP id y190-20020a0defc7000000b002dbd9521f7emr27165772ywe.117.1647393721045; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
    In-Reply-To: <ot323hd98s5o1prpjpemc1rdjsblc52bfm@4ax.com>
    Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=209.221.140.126; posting-account=vKQm_QoAAADOaDCYsqOFDAW8NJ8sFHoE
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.221.140.126
    References: <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <
    f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0pgpt$mlp$1@dont-email.me> <8um03htskukkmcl8d0p8be368ttsecggn5@4ax.com> <t0q2gr$5rd$1@dont-email.me> <dii13ht3oslvp9v6ujkif02eh22pta2je3@4ax.com> <t0qrmd$2a7$1@dont-email.me> <
    ot323hd98s5o1prpjpemc1rdjsblc52bfm@4ax.com>
    User-Agent: G2/1.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Message-ID: <b9a2284a-0904-46ee-ba47-1a8caefe946en@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    From: whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    Injection-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 01:22:01 +0000
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    Lines: 39
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663180

    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 3:21:24 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:07:40 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 15/03/2022 18:30, John Larkin wrote:

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    The president does not have the same rights as a civilian. And no, he
    did not ask for peaceful protest.

    ... Luckily, the Constitution allows free speech
    that you don't approve of. MAGA and BLM both.

    Free speech allows /civilians/ to go to MAGA and BLM marches and
    rallies, as long as they don't overstep certain limits - for example,
    racist speech (in any direction) is not protected.
    I think it is.

    The president - just like any other elected official or representative
    of authorities, such as police officers or military personnel - are far
    more restricted. The president represents the country, not himself (or
    perhaps one day, herself).

    I don't see any such restrictions in the Constitution.

    It's in there. The president's oath of office calls for him to faithfully execute his duties, including diplomacy (and to do that, diplomatic
    language is essential). That's because, 'the president represents the country'.

    He also, as commander of armed forces, needs to avoid
    sending death squads after citizens (in the tradition of 'who will
    rid me of this turbulent priest' as attributed to Henry II).

    A faithful execution of duties is a very real constraint that we
    lay on all Presidents; that oath is a Constitutional requirement
    that no President ought to forget.

    Try reading the Constitution again; you missed some stuff.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:27:10 2022
    An America-bashing Australian...


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Wed Mar 16 05:24:19 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    A chronic liar...

    --
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:244f:b0:67d:ccec:3eaa with SMTP id h15-20020a05620a244f00b0067dccec3eaamr8572401qkn.744.1647392060796; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
    X-Received: by 2002:a5b:7d1:0:b0:628:d9f7:c5b8 with SMTP id t17-20020a5b07d1000000b00628d9f7c5b8mr26480767ybq.347.1647392060587; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
    In-Reply-To: <t0qfu9$kkv$3@dont-email.me>
    Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=209.221.140.126; posting-account=vKQm_QoAAADOaDCYsqOFDAW8NJ8sFHoE
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.221.140.126
    References: <ibas2hl0bngj1frhiqe1a1vqd76cgj0qtl@4ax.com> <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <
    766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <
    mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <t0pnr1$cqj$3@dont-email.me> <t0qfu9$kkv$3@dont-email.me>
    User-Agent: G2/1.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Message-ID: <15d74d55-c98e-486f-8607-4b624a679d53n@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    From: whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    Injection-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 00:54:20 +0000
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    Lines: 19
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663178

    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 9:47:16 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
    Besides aggressive NATO expansion, another reason Russia attacked Ukraine
    is its Nazi problem.

    NATO expansion is guaranteed as long as Russia attacks neighbors.

    Russia was screwed by Adolf Hitler at the start of
    World War II.

    False; at the start, they divided up Poland, completely amicably.

    Russia was deeply wounded in that war. Russia hasn't
    forgotten that. Apparently some of Germany's Nazis settled in Ukraine...

    War also wounded Germany; have you ever seen the aerial footage of Berlin in1945,
    featuring lots of brick piles that used to be buildings? Russia took damage, true,
    but also propogandized for decades afterward, building up a boogeyman for some
    reason or other. Maybe for a European war in 2022?

    It's slightly more credible than cannibal left-handers. Slightly.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:37:04 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:26:47 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t0rsen$25s$3@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    FbDZf9/kQZX8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Wed Mar 16 05:39:42 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-
    media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx14.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <ibas2hl0bngj1frhiqe1a1vqd76cgj0qtl@4ax.com> <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <
    766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <
    mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <t0pnr1$cqj$3@dont-email.me> <t0qfu9$kkv$3@dont-email.me> <15d74d55-c98e-486f-8607-4b624a679d53n@googlegroups.com> <t0rsa2$25s$1@dont-email.me>
    Lines: 22
    Message-ID: <2IeYJ.229072$833.84528@usenetxs.com>
    X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:37:02 UTC
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:37:02 GMT
    X-Received-Bytes: 1940
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663205 free.spam:17557

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:24:19 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0rsa2$25s$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    PuyeWymGb2vj




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 05:40:18 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Wed, 16 Mar 2022 05:39:56 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t0rt7b$25s$8@dont-email.me>.

    S20g9aDtlHhH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Wed Mar 16 12:15:38 2022
    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>>>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting
    to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me.

    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of
    such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread
    certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime.
    Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it"
    was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    See the difference?



    It is not absolute, and it does not allow anyone to
    say whatever they want, and it does not protect against crimes such as
    hate crimes, defamation, incitement to riot, conspiracy, telling a mob
    to hang the vice president, or anything else Trump and his cronies said
    to inflame the invasion of the Capitol - either on the day itself, or
    throughout the previous months.

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A right.

    And told his supporters that they'd have to fight for their rights, which isn't exactly a peaceful activity.


    Trump has always been careful about picking his words in a way that
    avoids saying anything much directly, while still having the clear
    intention of encouraging abhorrent and/or illegal behaviour. Thus he
    did /not/ say anything like "Break into the Capitol and stop the
    electoral vote count by any means necessary". Rather, he used his
    typical weasel wording - more like "Some people are saying that we
    should break into the Capitol. I think maybe we could stop the
    counting. I don't know - I'm not saying that. But some people are."

    If Trump is judged on his exact words, it would be hard to be sure that
    he is guilty. If he is judged on the clear and intentional implications
    of his words, and the predictable effect they had, then he is guilty of treason, sedition, and probably a host of other crimes for the events of
    that day and his words and actions leading up to it. In the eyes of
    most of the world, and a large proportion (I don't know how large) of Americans, he is clearly guilty. But the legal status and ramifications
    will be up to American courts. (And that, again, is how it should be.)

    You define "cronies" and then find him guilty of something.

    With any luck the US attorney-general will get around to doing that.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Wed Mar 16 10:51:40 2022
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not. >>>>>> Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting
    to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me.

    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights, and that Trump incited criminal behavior. I disagree on both.


    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of
    such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread >certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime.
    Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it"
    was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    Pence, not Price.


    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings, or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.

    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence. One of them
    killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.



    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Mar 16 14:30:20 2022
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 10:51:52 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights, and that Trump incited criminal behavior. I disagree on both.

    No '1st amendent rights' are absolutions for misdeeds, especially
    for misdeeds of a public official. Public speaking from a high
    office is expected to be influential, and that influence confers responsibility. Law recognizes this, though John Larkin may
    want to quibble.

    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence. One of them
    killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.

    The distinction between an asshole, and an asshole with a lame excuse,
    is only a distinction, not a difference. The 'capital security people' aren't a good excuse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Bill....@ieee.org on Wed Mar 16 18:46:40 2022
    Psycho Commie Bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    ==============================
    JL wrote:

    Look up what he actually said.

    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings, or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.

    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence.
    One of them killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.


    She'd just broken a window and was trying to climb through it.
    That is threatening behavior - in the context, shooting her eliminated one
    of a number of fairly obvious threats and presumably discouraged the people
    with her from trying to get through the same window.


    ** That is such obviously deranged CRAP crap it deserves no reply.

    Nobody has been prosecuted for killing her.

    ** But one clearly should have been - even blind freddy can see corrupt Dem politics intervened.


    FYI:

    Bet anything " IEEE Bill" thinks Jussie Smollett really WAS attacked by MAGA hat wearing racists.
    The lying asshole has gone to jail for that bit of spectacular, criminal race baiting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZXoErL2124



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Wed Mar 16 19:06:13 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:46:45 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    Psycho Commie Bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    ==============================
    JL wrote:

    Look up what he actually said.

    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings, or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.

    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence.
    One of them killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.


    She'd just broken a window and was trying to climb through it.
    That is threatening behavior - in the context, shooting her eliminated one of a number of fairly obvious threats and presumably discouraged the people
    with her from trying to get through the same window.

    ** That is such obviously deranged CRAP crap it deserves no reply.
    Nobody has been prosecuted for killing her.

    ** But one clearly should have been - even blind freddy can see corrupt Dem politics intervened.

    If Blind Freddy - or in this case Blind Phil - gets their information from Sky News - the Australian branch of Fox News they might well think that.
    They'd be wrong, but if you are silly enough to take the Murdoch media seriously, you do get a lot of stuff wrong.

    FYI:

    Bet anything " IEEE Bill" thinks Jussie Smollett really WAS attacked by MAGA hat wearing racists.
    The lying asshole has gone to jail for that bit of spectacular, criminal race baiting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZXoErL2124

    The first I'd heard of Jussie Smollett was when he was convicted of falsely claiming that he'd been the subject of a racist attack. He's an actor with an enthusiasm for getting his name in the media. People with an enthusiasm for getting themselves
    noticed do pull that kind of trick. There was an Australian academic who did it recently. Donald Trump should get around to it soon.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M Kfivethousand@21:1/5 to John Doe on Wed Mar 16 18:19:26 2022
    On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:56:52 PM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:
    Apparently Zelensky is an Israeli agent. He wants to rid the world of
    Nazis who fled to Ukraine.


    , thanks for sharing the information. I wondered if they sold their places that they moved from Russia to go to Ukraine

    . I am looking for something Russian fashion oriented and so that's why I need something cheap. Could you put us in touch with some of the real estate the Russian nazis left Ukraine for

    A website like MLS or naZillow

    mk5000

    You think you Tommy De
    Vito, throwing blows, serving a broken nose
    When all we see is Harry, the burglar from Home Alone
    When you get to your pad, that's when you stop tryna think you're Italian==Loe Pesci vs Tantrum
    by illmaculate

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Mar 16 18:31:44 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 4:51:52 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    <snip>

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me.

    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    He has in the past, and doesn't even try now.

    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights, and that Trump incited criminal behavior. I disagree on both.

    But can't say why.

    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of >such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread >certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some >opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime. >Thinking that Pence should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it" >was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime. >Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    About telling them that they'd have to fight to get the outcome desired? Trump knows how to get the kind of mood he wants to inspire without actually saying anything actionable. He has promoted any number of disastrous business projects without ever
    being prosecuted for fraud.

    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings, or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.

    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence. One of them killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.

    She'd just broken a window and was trying to climb through it. That is threatening behavior - in the context, shooting her eliminated one of a number of fairly obvious threats and presumably discouraged the people with her from trying to get through the
    same window. Nobody has been prosecuted for killing her.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Mar 17 11:08:05 2022
    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>>>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting
    to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me.

    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    I didn't say you responded to him, but that you had mixed up what we had written. If that is not the case, then you have completely fabricated
    certain ideas about me.


    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Fair enough.

    Despite the somewhat sycophantic and religious awe in which some people
    hold the American Constitution and its amendments, it is a cumbersome,
    vaguely (and sometimes badly) worded and hard to interpret document that
    has been the subject of endless legal discussion, debate, interpretation
    and re-interpretation ever since it was written. (This is not a
    criticism of the document - I don't think it is possible to do a much
    better job when trying to be succinct about legal matters. It is a
    document - to make something that is clear and absolute, they'd need to
    have written a book at least.)

    My understanding is that the US president does not have First Amendment
    rights. Your understanding is different. It's up to the American
    courts to figure out the mess.


    As for the second point, it comes in two parts. Either you do not think
    the mob on 6th January behaved criminally (noting that at least 778
    people have so far been charged for criminal offences in connection with
    the event and that at least some have been convicted), or that you do
    not think that Trump incited the behaviour. If it is the former, you
    are suggesting that you have a better idea of "criminal behaviour" than
    the US Federal courts, which is rather arrogant. If it is the later, I recommend you look at transcripts of Trump's speech that day, and watch
    some videos of it.


    However, I have never (to the best of my recall) suggested that
    /opinions/ can be criminal. Trump is welcome to live in his fantasy
    that the election was fraudulent. He is not welcome to express that
    opinion in a way that incites criminal behaviour. (That applies to
    everyone - president, ex-president, and everyone else.)




    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of
    such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread
    certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime.
    Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it"
    was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    Pence, not Price.

    Sorry, yes.



    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    I have.


    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings,

    Trump told the mob he'd be walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with them,
    though he didn't do so himself.

    or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.


    Do you really have so little idea of what happened there? An armed and
    violent mob broke into a key government building in an attempt to stop
    the legal democratic process. People were killed, people were injured,
    state property was destroyed, critical democratic processes were
    disrupted, lives were threatened.

    Now, I expect that most of the crowd didn't realise what they were
    involved in, and how badly things could have gone. Most Trump
    supporters there were likely totally clueless to the political and
    democratic ramifications of what was going on - they already believe the complete drivel that Trump had served them. And I believe the majority
    were not interested in violence, and certainly would not want to hurt
    anyone.

    But there were plenty there who /did/ want to hurt people, and plenty
    more who were willing to hurt people to do what they understood was
    Trump's commands.


    Trump said:

    """
    Something's really wrong, can't have happened, and we fight. We fight
    like hell, and if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a
    country anymore
    """

    His speech includes the word "fight" 21 times. The crowd can be heard
    chanting "Fight for Trump", "Take the Capitol", "Storm the Capitol", and
    he encourages them.


    The capital security people are guilty of incompetence. One of them
    killed an unarmed lady who was not threatening him.

    I'm not going to defend the security folk. I don't know enough about
    what they knew and expected to encounter to tell where faults might have
    been. It's easy to see afterwards that there should have been a lot
    more security people there, and they should have been in full riot gear
    with tear gas, water canons and the whole lot - when defending the the
    nation's seat of democracy against an angry, violent and ignorant mob,
    you don't mess around. Equally, of course, it's easy to see that too
    much visible security can provoke violent reactions. Maybe there should
    have been truck-loads of riot police waiting in unmarked vans nearby, to
    move in when it became necessary. As I say, I don't know what was done,
    or what should have been done, and what was known in advance and what
    was only known afterwards.

    However, in no way were the security people at fault for the sedition
    and the storming of the Capitol. It is not the police that make someone
    a criminal!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Doe on Thu Mar 17 11:55:58 2022
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    news:t0qfu9$kkv$3@dont-email.me:

    Besides aggressive NATO expansion, another reason Russia attacked
    Ukraine is its Nazi problem.

    You're a goddamned idiot.

    Russia did not attack Ukraine. Vladimir Putin did as he lied to his
    troops and his nation.

    Total retards like you are the Nazi problem.

    You are so fucking stupid that you will NOT SEE reality ever, in your
    entire pathetic life.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Mar 17 12:01:24 2022
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in news:dii13ht3oslvp9v6ujkif02eh22pta2je3@4ax.com:

    Trump specifically asked for peaceful protest, an enumerated 1A
    right.


    That is not what he asked for in the meetings leading up to the NON-
    peacable trespass of the capitol, which was closed to the public at the
    time, and Trump knew that too.

    What we saw on 6 JAN 2021 was NOT a protest in any way shape or form,
    and its instigators at the podium were not calling for peaceful
    protest.

    Trump specifically asked for takeover behavior.

    Donald John Trump and nearly his entire cabinet committed crimes
    leading up to and including on the day of 6 JAN 2021.

    I specifically state that John Larkin is an abject idiot of the
    lowest order.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Thu Mar 17 09:21:23 2022
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time >>>>>>>> and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
    undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting
    to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me. >>
    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    I didn't say you responded to him, but that you had mixed up what we had >written. If that is not the case, then you have completely fabricated >certain ideas about me.


    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Fair enough.

    Despite the somewhat sycophantic and religious awe in which some people
    hold the American Constitution and its amendments, it is a cumbersome, >vaguely (and sometimes badly) worded and hard to interpret document that
    has been the subject of endless legal discussion, debate, interpretation
    and re-interpretation ever since it was written. (This is not a
    criticism of the document - I don't think it is possible to do a much
    better job when trying to be succinct about legal matters. It is a
    document - to make something that is clear and absolute, they'd need to
    have written a book at least.)

    My understanding is that the US president does not have First Amendment >rights. Your understanding is different. It's up to the American
    courts to figure out the mess.


    As for the second point, it comes in two parts. Either you do not think
    the mob on 6th January behaved criminally (noting that at least 778
    people have so far been charged for criminal offences in connection with
    the event and that at least some have been convicted), or that you do
    not think that Trump incited the behaviour. If it is the former, you
    are suggesting that you have a better idea of "criminal behaviour" than
    the US Federal courts, which is rather arrogant. If it is the later, I >recommend you look at transcripts of Trump's speech that day, and watch
    some videos of it.

    What you call a criminal mob is what the 1st amendement declares to be
    an explicit right:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    The vast majority of the people asssmbled on Jan 6 were doing exactly
    that. The few who engaged in violence or tresspassing or littering
    were violating the law.

    Trump urged his followers to protest peacefully. Do you have a link
    showing him suggesting violence?

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."




    However, I have never (to the best of my recall) suggested that
    /opinions/ can be criminal. Trump is welcome to live in his fantasy
    that the election was fraudulent.

    It certainly was. Possibly enough to change the results.

    He is not welcome to express that
    opinion in a way that incites criminal behaviour. (That applies to
    everyone - president, ex-president, and everyone else.)

    If expressing an opinion MIGHT result in violence, no opinions can be expressed. The world is chaotic.





    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of >>> such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread
    certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime.
    Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it"
    was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    Pence, not Price.

    Sorry, yes.



    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    I have.


    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings,

    Trump told the mob he'd be walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with them,
    though he didn't do so himself.

    or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.


    Do you really have so little idea of what happened there? An armed and >violent mob broke into a key government building in an attempt to stop
    the legal democratic process. People were killed, people were injured,
    state property was destroyed, critical democratic processes were
    disrupted, lives were threatened.

    Now, I expect that most of the crowd didn't realise what they were
    involved in, and how badly things could have gone. Most Trump
    supporters there were likely totally clueless to the political and
    democratic ramifications of what was going on - they already believe the >complete drivel that Trump had served them. And I believe the majority
    were not interested in violence, and certainly would not want to hurt
    anyone.

    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage. There are violent loonies on the
    far fringes of the left and the right. Some people enjoy violence.



    But there were plenty there who /did/ want to hurt people, and plenty
    more who were willing to hurt people to do what they understood was
    Trump's commands.


    Trump said:

    """
    Something's really wrong, can't have happened, and we fight. We fight
    like hell, and if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a >country anymore
    """

    His speech includes the word "fight" 21 times. The crowd can be heard >chanting "Fight for Trump", "Take the Capitol", "Storm the Capitol", and
    he encourages them.

    He told people to protest peacefully. "Fight" has many meanings.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Mar 17 11:41:35 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:

    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Trump urged his followers to protest peacefully. Do you have a link
    showing him suggesting violence?

    The truth of human speech, is that it is always ambiguous. The game of 'gossip' , wherein a dozen or so folk pass a message serially, teaches us
    just how much changes in the retelling of a story.

    Exact words are NOT the message that people HEAR , though a recording
    (i.e. 'a link showing...') will capture exact words.

    The Donald just gathered an audience of hundreds of thousands via Twitter,
    let them discuss for a while, got the most credulous thousands to
    show up for a pep talk, and launched them at Congress. A few violence-inclined members in the crowd had weapons, anger, and
    posed a significant danger.

    So, that's incitement to riot. It's a crime.

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems
    to be a bit of cherry-picking.

    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage.

    There's no bleeding corpse of a gutted city anywhere; I did see one consequence of BLM protests, a homebound driver getting a traffic ticket for bypassing a roadblock.

    A few rowdy yahoos is a good description, but so is 'a riot'. John Larkin is a big proponent of mangling the message before passing it on... he should
    be a hoot at a game of 'gossip'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Mar 17 20:26:42 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in news:ihm63hl28krnu0uv4ffchhvbmf410lddbu@4ax.com:

    What you call a criminal mob is what the 1st amendement declares
    to be an explicit right:


    No it does not. It declares the right to PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY.

    Showing up in armor with gallows and guns and spears and pepper
    sprays is NOT peaceable and is NOT covered.

    So what you keep trying to call peaceable assembly was 100% other
    than peaceable. You are even more retarded than the politicians trying
    to pull the same stupid shit.

    You pathetic cringing milksop.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Mar 17 20:38:55 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in news:ihm63hl28krnu0uv4ffchhvbmf410lddbu@4ax.com:

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."


    Which was an invitation to commit a crime. Why? Because Donald John
    Trump KNEW the capitol was CLOSED to the public and he also KNEW that
    the capitol grounds were closed as well.

    So his call to march over there, no matter how 'cleverly' he or you
    thinks he worded it, was a call to commit a crime, and he knew that.
    Stable genius, remember?

    Whether you wish to believe it or not, it does not change the facts.
    Donald John Trump incited criminal acts that day.

    You simply need to grow the fuck up and face the fact that you made a
    bad choice and all the buttering up in the world does not change the
    fact that the bad choice you made put a proven lifelong criminal into
    our nation's highest office. And then you shoved your head up his fat
    ass.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Mar 17 20:32:58 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in news:ihm63hl28krnu0uv4ffchhvbmf410lddbu@4ax.com:

    The vast majority of the people asssmbled on Jan 6 were doing exactly
    that. The few who engaged in violence or tresspassing or littering
    were violating the law.

    The few? The ENTIRE CROWD advanced PAST the permimeter barriers,
    which were manned by cops. That is felony criminal trsepassing, and
    they were beat down and stepped past, which is criminal assault of a
    law enforcement officer (plural), and that means that 100% of the
    crowd... the ENTIRE CROWD was guilty, AND THE ENTIRE CROWD becomes
    complicit to any and all crimes committed by others in the crowd.
    EVERYONE that was within that breached perimeter was at the level of criminality from that point forward.

    Goddamn grow the fuck up, you putz motherfucker.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 15:25:13 2022
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:

    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Trump urged his followers to protest peacefully. Do you have a link
    showing him suggesting violence?

    The truth of human speech, is that it is always ambiguous. The game of >'gossip' , wherein a dozen or so folk pass a message serially, teaches us >just how much changes in the retelling of a story.

    Exact words are NOT the message that people HEAR , though a recording
    (i.e. 'a link showing...') will capture exact words.

    The Donald just gathered an audience of hundreds of thousands via Twitter, >let them discuss for a while, got the most credulous thousands to
    show up for a pep talk, and launched them at Congress. A few >violence-inclined members in the crowd had weapons, anger, and
    posed a significant danger.

    So, that's incitement to riot. It's a crime.

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems >to be a bit of cherry-picking.



    OK, you can cherry-pick a Trump quote where he advocated violence.


    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage.

    There's no bleeding corpse of a gutted city anywhere; I did see one consequence
    of BLM protests, a homebound driver getting a traffic ticket for bypassing a roadblock.

    A few rowdy yahoos is a good description, but so is 'a riot'. John Larkin is
    a big proponent of mangling the message before passing it on... he should
    be a hoot at a game of 'gossip'.

    Are you actually Sloman, with the clumsy third-party thing? Or just an
    admirer of his literary skills?


    Organize, mobilize and fight.

    - Nancy Pelosi


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Mar 17 16:44:56 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems
    to be a bit of cherry-picking.

    OK, you can cherry-pick a Trump quote where he advocated violence.

    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have
    authority to change that.

    Examine facts and draw conclusions, but don't think that an important issue
    is decided by some damn-fool debate trickery.

    Inviting someone to inspect all of Trump's rhetoric for cherry-picking is... a hostile act, and an
    offense against reason.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 17:19:08 2022
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems
    to be a bit of cherry-picking.

    OK, you can cherry-pick a Trump quote where he advocated violence.

    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have
    authority to change that.

    It's "wrong" because you can't find a Trump call to violence.


    Examine facts and draw conclusions, but don't think that an important issue >is decided by some damn-fool debate trickery.

    Hilarious, actual quotes becoming "trickery."


    Inviting someone to inspect all of Trump's rhetoric for cherry-picking is... a hostile act, and an
    offense against reason.

    You can't find one.

    And you snipped Pelosi's actual call for violence.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Mar 17 17:31:39 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    ===============

    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have
    authority to change that.

    It's "wrong" because you can't find a Trump call to violence.

    Examine facts and draw conclusions, but don't think that an important issue >is decided by some damn-fool debate trickery.

    Hilarious, actual quotes becoming "trickery."

    Inviting someone to inspect all of Trump's rhetoric for cherry-picking is... a hostile act, and an
    offense against reason.
    You can't find one.

    And you snipped Pelosi's actual call for violence.
    --


    ** Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.
    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Thu Mar 17 19:42:44 2022
    On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 11:31:43 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    ===============

    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have >authority to change that.

    It's "wrong" because you can't find a Trump call to violence.

    The fact that John Larkin can't recognise a call to "fight" as a call to violence isn't all that surprising. He doesn't like recognising Trump's defects.

    Examine facts and draw conclusions, but don't think that an important issue decided by some damn-fool debate trickery.

    Hilarious, actual quotes becoming "trickery."

    What John Larkin does with them - by failing to notice the implied message - is the opposite of "trickery". He has let himself be tricked.

    Inviting someone to inspect all of Trump's rhetoric for cherry-picking is... a hostile act, and an offense against reason.

    You can't find one.

    You can't find an explicit call to violence that could have got Trump charged with incitement to violence in a court of law - he's bright enough to avoid doing that. You can find plenty of implied calls to violence - 21 examples of of the word fight, as
    has been pointed out.

    And you snipped Pelosi's actual call for violence.

    Which wasn't addressed to a mob who were going to march on anything. Context s important.

    ** Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    I mostly watch the Australian national broadcaster - the ABC. I'm not sure that I can get to see CNN. I do read trustworthy newspapers, which is to say nothing owned by Rupert Murdoch. Phil seems to rely on Sky News - Australian branch of Fox News -
    which Rupert Muirdoch seems to have turned into a pro-Trump propaganda machine.

    The fact that I'm not watching moronic Republican Party propaganda doesn't make what I do watch Democratic Party propaganda - I'm fairly sure that it is pretty close to accurate reporting, which doesn't make Trump and his supporters look good, which
    does seem to be what Phil feels he needs.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.

    As Phil, John Doe and Flyguy illustrate pretty much nonstop. David Brown and I actually don't, but Phil is good at fooling himself.

    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it. Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........

    Like I said, Phil, John Doe and Flyguy do fit Phil's diagnosis, even though they don't seem to realise it.

    Having enough insight to realise what is going on, but not enough to realise that you are a typical example of the problem must make Phil a borderline case.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 19:48:29 2022
    Criminal LIAR & Brainwashed ASSHOLE IEEE bill....@ieee.org wrote:

    ======================================================

    ** Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.

    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it. ===========================================================

    Like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.
    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........

    FOAD Bill,



    .... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Mar 17 23:20:56 2022
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 5:19:20 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the >> >> Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems >> >to be a bit of cherry-picking.

    OK, you can cherry-pick a Trump quote where he advocated violence.
    \
    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have
    authority to change that.
    It's "wrong" because you can't find a Trump call to violence.

    I hold Trump responsible for incitement of an angry crowd, created by his propoganda hinting at illegality and disrespecting the certified electoral votes.
    I hold Trump responsible for sending that crowd to interrupt Congress at work.

    What does an innocent sentence from the events of that day say, that
    lessens this responsibility? Nothing. I can see through that tiny smokescreen,
    because I'm not blind. John Larkin is examining smoke.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 18 00:13:42 2022
    whit3rd wrote:
    ==================

    * Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after. The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Fri Mar 18 02:34:45 2022
    On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 6:13:45 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    ==================
    * Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.
    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it. Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.
    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........

    Phil gets told what to think by Sky News - the Australian branch of Fox News, and also owned by Rupert Murdoch.

    He doesn't realise that he is being lied to, and has persuaded himself that it's the mainstream media that is doing the lying.

    That makes him the weak minded sucker. If he'd managed to finish his college education he might have become less gullible, and less inferior to everybody else.

    As it is he has to lie to himself as device to boost his self respect. It doesn't work too well, so he goes over the top at regular intervals to boost the dose. Another poor choice.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to David Brown on Fri Mar 18 09:42:25 2022
    On 18/03/22 09:28, David Brown wrote:
    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    "peace" was used once in the speech - "fight" was 21 times. Count it yourself.
    ...
    And if you know anything about rhetoric (and that is something Trump
    /does/ know about), no one cares about "protest peacefully" near the beginning of the speech. It's the "we fight like hell" near the end
    that has the effect.
    ...
    How can this be difficult to understand?
    ...
    Read the speech. Listen to it. Listen to the crowd.

    Stop living in denial and stop making excuses for these dregs of humanity.

    There's none so deaf/blind as them's won't hear/see.

    People continue to believe things they want to believe,
    even when there's proof it is wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Mar 18 10:28:32 2022
    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country, >>>>>>>>> undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages.

    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting >>>> to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me. >>>
    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    I didn't say you responded to him, but that you had mixed up what we had
    written. If that is not the case, then you have completely fabricated
    certain ideas about me.


    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Fair enough.

    Despite the somewhat sycophantic and religious awe in which some people
    hold the American Constitution and its amendments, it is a cumbersome,
    vaguely (and sometimes badly) worded and hard to interpret document that
    has been the subject of endless legal discussion, debate, interpretation
    and re-interpretation ever since it was written. (This is not a
    criticism of the document - I don't think it is possible to do a much
    better job when trying to be succinct about legal matters. It is a
    document - to make something that is clear and absolute, they'd need to
    have written a book at least.)

    My understanding is that the US president does not have First Amendment
    rights. Your understanding is different. It's up to the American
    courts to figure out the mess.


    As for the second point, it comes in two parts. Either you do not think
    the mob on 6th January behaved criminally (noting that at least 778
    people have so far been charged for criminal offences in connection with
    the event and that at least some have been convicted), or that you do
    not think that Trump incited the behaviour. If it is the former, you
    are suggesting that you have a better idea of "criminal behaviour" than
    the US Federal courts, which is rather arrogant. If it is the later, I
    recommend you look at transcripts of Trump's speech that day, and watch
    some videos of it.

    What you call a criminal mob is what the 1st amendement declares to be
    an explicit right:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    The vast majority of the people asssmbled on Jan 6 were doing exactly
    that. The few who engaged in violence or tresspassing or littering
    were violating the law.

    As I said, you apparently haven't a clue what happened that day. You
    are equating violence and littering? Seriously? They /killed/ people.
    Some arrived in the area already armed, others improvised weapons.
    Then they invaded the seat of democracy by violence, with the intent of hindering critical democratic processes. And you call it "trespassing"
    and "littering".

    Most of the mob were not directly involved in the violence. But they
    chanted along, egging others on - inciting to violence is a crime.
    Probably most of them had no intention of that, and didn't even think of
    it as a crime - as I have said many times, merely voicing your opinion
    is /not/ a crime. But when you start shouting "storm the Capitol",
    "break down the doors", etc., you are a criminal.


    Trump urged his followers to protest peacefully. Do you have a link
    showing him suggesting violence?

    Try google. Listen to his speech on the day - and all the related
    comments and speeches before that.


    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    "peace" was used once in the speech - "fight" was 21 times. Count it
    yourself.

    <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_Save_America_Rally_Speech>

    And if you know anything about rhetoric (and that is something Trump
    /does/ know about), no one cares about "protest peacefully" near the
    beginning of the speech. It's the "we fight like hell" near the end
    that has the effect.



    However, I have never (to the best of my recall) suggested that
    /opinions/ can be criminal. Trump is welcome to live in his fantasy
    that the election was fraudulent.

    It certainly was. Possibly enough to change the results.


    No. Just ... no.

    The whole idiotic system you use for presidential elections is bad. The
    way it is implemented is bad. But within the rules you have for it,
    there was /no/ evidence or serious indication of any foul play in the
    election. There were endless recounts, endless legal actions and
    complaints - and all showed there was /nothing/ to even hint at fraud or corruption from the Biden side. (There was intentional fraud from the
    Trump side, such as encouraging people to send mail-in votes and also
    vote in person.) There were, as there always is in any big vote, a few unintentional errors - but nothing of the remotest significance.

    He is not welcome to express that
    opinion in a way that incites criminal behaviour. (That applies to
    everyone - president, ex-president, and everyone else.)

    If expressing an opinion MIGHT result in violence, no opinions can be expressed. The world is chaotic.


    Expressing an opinion in a way that can /reasonably/ be presumed to lead
    to violence is illegal. Expressing it in a way that clearly,
    intentionally and with pre-meditation and planning will lead to violence
    is without doubt a crime.

    How can this be difficult to understand?






    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of >>>> such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread >>>> certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in
    most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime.
    Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it" >>>> was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    Pence, not Price.

    Sorry, yes.



    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    I have.


    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings,

    Trump told the mob he'd be walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with them,
    though he didn't do so himself.

    or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.


    Do you really have so little idea of what happened there? An armed and
    violent mob broke into a key government building in an attempt to stop
    the legal democratic process. People were killed, people were injured,
    state property was destroyed, critical democratic processes were
    disrupted, lives were threatened.

    Now, I expect that most of the crowd didn't realise what they were
    involved in, and how badly things could have gone. Most Trump
    supporters there were likely totally clueless to the political and
    democratic ramifications of what was going on - they already believe the
    complete drivel that Trump had served them. And I believe the majority
    were not interested in violence, and certainly would not want to hurt
    anyone.

    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>

    A violent insurrection and attempted coup is not "a few yahoos getting
    rowdy".

    The BLM protests were not "far worse" by any stretch of the imagination,
    no city was "gutted", and the damages were many orders of magnitude away
    from being "billions". (That is not to say there was no mindless
    violence, looting and vandalism in connection with the BLM protests -
    there certainly was.)

    And no matter how much you may disagree with the BLM movement or their
    actions, it is not an excuse for trying to bring down American democracy!

    There are violent loonies on the
    far fringes of the left and the right. Some people enjoy violence.


    On that, we agree.

    The astounding thing in this case was that it was the then president of
    the USA that was the violent loony in charge.



    But there were plenty there who /did/ want to hurt people, and plenty
    more who were willing to hurt people to do what they understood was
    Trump's commands.


    Trump said:

    """
    Something's really wrong, can't have happened, and we fight. We fight
    like hell, and if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a
    country anymore
    """

    His speech includes the word "fight" 21 times. The crowd can be heard
    chanting "Fight for Trump", "Take the Capitol", "Storm the Capitol", and
    he encourages them.

    He told people to protest peacefully. "Fight" has many meanings.


    Read the speech. Listen to it. Listen to the crowd.

    Stop living in denial and stop making excuses for these dregs of humanity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Tom Gardner on Fri Mar 18 03:37:00 2022
    Tom Gardner wrote:
    ==================

    People continue to believe things they want to believe,
    even when there's proof it is wrong.


    ** Made so much easier when the *brain dead drones* refuse to even view the proof.

    Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.
    ( Or the Australian ABC - no difference )

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after. The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.
    This IS their pathetic motive and the absolute truth.

    Vilest people on earth.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 18 03:32:30 2022
    IEEE Bill is INSANE ....@ieee.org wrote:
    =======================

    * Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after. The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    THIS is the truth.

    Peeeeeuukkkeee........




    .... . Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Fri Mar 18 06:26:26 2022
    On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 9:37:05 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    Tom Gardner wrote:
    ==================

    People continue to believe things they want to believe,
    even when there's proof it is wrong.

    ** Made so much easier when the *brain dead drones* refuse to even view the proof.
    Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.
    ( Or the Australian ABC - no difference )

    Phil can't have watched both of them if he thinks that. I did see CNN from time to time when I was living in Europe, and it didn't cover much of the same stuff as the ABC, and the international news that they both covered didn't get reported from the
    same point of view.

    I suspect Phil is just repeating far-right orthodoxy rather than reporting his own experience.

    Both are unlike the totally reliably pro-Trump propaganda that Phil soaks up from Sky News.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.

    Phil does sound as if he is totally suckered by the nonsense he recycles.

    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.

    As Phil exemplifies.

    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    Phil didn't even finish college - in Australia we say he didn't complete his undergraduate degree, but the message is the same.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.

    Phil does seem to place an implausibly high valuation on his own judgement - which is hard to reconcile with him taking Sky News seriously.

    This IS their pathetic motive and the absolute truth.

    It is a pretty pathetic misconception.

    Vilest people on earth.

    Putin's war crimes set a pretty high bar, but Trump seems to think that Putin is perfectly okay, so Phil will too. Not great judgement.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 18 08:29:53 2022
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:20:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 5:19:20 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:21:35 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the >> >> >> Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    A single sentence? Not a longer string of rambling nonsense? This seems >> >> >to be a bit of cherry-picking.

    OK, you can cherry-pick a Trump quote where he advocated violence.
    \
    Nonsense. Cherry-picking is WRONG, and John Larkin does not have
    authority to change that.
    It's "wrong" because you can't find a Trump call to violence.

    I hold Trump responsible for incitement of an angry crowd, created by his >propoganda hinting at illegality and disrespecting the certified electoral votes.
    I hold Trump responsible for sending that crowd to interrupt Congress at work.

    "I hold" gets you exactly one vote.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Fri Mar 18 08:38:06 2022
    On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:28:32 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 02:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:30:32 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 13:58:03 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
    On 15/03/2022 10:29, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Lying about it was not. Inventing "evidence" was not. Wasting the time
    and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
    Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country, >>>>>>>>>> undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

    First Amendment.

    No.

    Do you even know what the First Amendment is about?

    It's short and clear. If reepeated today, it would be 2000 pages. >>>>>>>
    It prevents the state or its representatives from limiting civilians' freedom of speech.
    It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he says to the public.

    The President doesn't have first amendment rights?

    Some. But what he says ought to be constrained by the responsibilities that he accepted with his oath of office.
    Trump hasn't got a responsible bone i his body.

    You want to criminalize opinions that you disagree with. The First Amendment discourages that sort of thing.

    Opinions that provoked others into invading the Capitol Building probably are criminal.

    Perhaps John Larkin has been mixing us up when he accused me of wanting >>>>> to criminalise opposing opinions. He is attributing /your/ errors to me. >>>>
    No. I responded to your post. I never respond to Sloman.

    I didn't say you responded to him, but that you had mixed up what we had >>> written. If that is not the case, then you have completely fabricated
    certain ideas about me.


    You have suggested that a President does not have 1st amendment
    rights,

    Yes.

    and that Trump incited criminal behavior.

    Yes.

    I disagree on both.

    Fair enough.

    Despite the somewhat sycophantic and religious awe in which some people
    hold the American Constitution and its amendments, it is a cumbersome,
    vaguely (and sometimes badly) worded and hard to interpret document that >>> has been the subject of endless legal discussion, debate, interpretation >>> and re-interpretation ever since it was written. (This is not a
    criticism of the document - I don't think it is possible to do a much
    better job when trying to be succinct about legal matters. It is a
    document - to make something that is clear and absolute, they'd need to
    have written a book at least.)

    My understanding is that the US president does not have First Amendment
    rights. Your understanding is different. It's up to the American
    courts to figure out the mess.


    As for the second point, it comes in two parts. Either you do not think >>> the mob on 6th January behaved criminally (noting that at least 778
    people have so far been charged for criminal offences in connection with >>> the event and that at least some have been convicted), or that you do
    not think that Trump incited the behaviour. If it is the former, you
    are suggesting that you have a better idea of "criminal behaviour" than
    the US Federal courts, which is rather arrogant. If it is the later, I
    recommend you look at transcripts of Trump's speech that day, and watch
    some videos of it.

    What you call a criminal mob is what the 1st amendement declares to be
    an explicit right:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    The vast majority of the people asssmbled on Jan 6 were doing exactly
    that. The few who engaged in violence or tresspassing or littering
    were violating the law.

    As I said, you apparently haven't a clue what happened that day. You
    are equating violence and littering? Seriously? They /killed/ people.
    Some arrived in the area already armed, others improvised weapons.
    Then they invaded the seat of democracy by violence, with the intent of >hindering critical democratic processes. And you call it "trespassing"
    and "littering".

    Most of the mob were not directly involved in the violence. But they
    chanted along, egging others on - inciting to violence is a crime.
    Probably most of them had no intention of that, and didn't even think of
    it as a crime - as I have said many times, merely voicing your opinion
    is /not/ a crime. But when you start shouting "storm the Capitol",
    "break down the doors", etc., you are a criminal.


    Trump urged his followers to protest peacefully. Do you have a link
    showing him suggesting violence?

    Try google. Listen to his speech on the day - and all the related
    comments and speeches before that.


    He said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the
    Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices
    heard."

    "peace" was used once in the speech - "fight" was 21 times. Count it >yourself.

    <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_Save_America_Rally_Speech>

    And if you know anything about rhetoric (and that is something Trump
    /does/ know about), no one cares about "protest peacefully" near the >beginning of the speech. It's the "we fight like hell" near the end
    that has the effect.



    However, I have never (to the best of my recall) suggested that
    /opinions/ can be criminal. Trump is welcome to live in his fantasy
    that the election was fraudulent.

    It certainly was. Possibly enough to change the results.


    No. Just ... no.

    The whole idiotic system you use for presidential elections is bad. The
    way it is implemented is bad. But within the rules you have for it,
    there was /no/ evidence or serious indication of any foul play in the >election. There were endless recounts, endless legal actions and
    complaints - and all showed there was /nothing/ to even hint at fraud or >corruption from the Biden side. (There was intentional fraud from the
    Trump side, such as encouraging people to send mail-in votes and also
    vote in person.) There were, as there always is in any big vote, a few >unintentional errors - but nothing of the remotest significance.

    He is not welcome to express that
    opinion in a way that incites criminal behaviour. (That applies to
    everyone - president, ex-president, and everyone else.)

    If expressing an opinion MIGHT result in violence, no opinions can be
    expressed. The world is chaotic.


    Expressing an opinion in a way that can /reasonably/ be presumed to lead
    to violence is illegal. Expressing it in a way that clearly,
    intentionally and with pre-meditation and planning will lead to violence
    is without doubt a crime.

    How can this be difficult to understand?






    In the "free world", opinions are /never/ criminal. And whether
    something is "criminal" or not depends on written law established
    through due process (via whatever government and/or court processes
    apply in that country's system). These two points are critical to
    having a "free country".

    (And contrary to John's muddled impressions, I am very much in favour of >>>>> such freedoms.)

    It can, in some circumstances, be a crime to express, publish or spread >>>>> certain opinions. And it can certainly be a crime to act upon some
    opinions. So it is not a crime to be racist, but it /is/ a crime (in >>>>> most places) to encourage racist behaviour in others. And this is,
    IMHO, the way it should be.

    Being of the opinion that the election was "stolen" was not a crime. >>>>> Thinking that Price should be hung for letting Biden "get away with it" >>>>> was not a crime. Forcing your way into the Capitol was a crime.
    Encouraging people to do so was a crime.

    Pence, not Price.

    Sorry, yes.



    See the difference?

    Look up what he actually said.

    I have.


    I don't recall that Trump forced his way into capital buildings,

    Trump told the mob he'd be walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with them,
    though he didn't do so himself.

    or
    that he encouraged anyone to do that. The people who did are arguably
    guilty of trespassing and taking tasteless selfies.


    Do you really have so little idea of what happened there? An armed and
    violent mob broke into a key government building in an attempt to stop
    the legal democratic process. People were killed, people were injured,
    state property was destroyed, critical democratic processes were
    disrupted, lives were threatened.

    Now, I expect that most of the crowd didn't realise what they were
    involved in, and how badly things could have gone. Most Trump
    supporters there were likely totally clueless to the political and
    democratic ramifications of what was going on - they already believe the >>> complete drivel that Trump had served them. And I believe the majority
    were not interested in violence, and certainly would not want to hurt
    anyone.

    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>

    Violence is illegal no matter who does it. But the Left sees only one
    side of issues... astoundingly distorted.


    A violent insurrection and attempted coup is not "a few yahoos getting >rowdy".

    The BLM protests were not "far worse" by any stretch of the imagination,
    no city was "gutted", and the damages were many orders of magnitude away
    from being "billions". (That is not to say there was no mindless
    violence, looting and vandalism in connection with the BLM protests -
    there certainly was.)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8740609/Rioting-140-cities-George-Floyds-death-cost-insurance-industry-2-BILLION.html

    https://fee.org/articles/george-floyd-riots-caused-record-setting-2-billion-in-damage-new-report-says-here-s-why-the-true-cost-is-even-higher/


    And no matter how much you may disagree with the BLM movement or their >actions, it is not an excuse for trying to bring down American democracy!

    There are violent loonies on the
    far fringes of the left and the right. Some people enjoy violence.


    On that, we agree.

    The astounding thing in this case was that it was the then president of
    the USA that was the violent loony in charge.

    Try thinking and not emoting once in a while.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Fri Mar 18 08:41:31 2022
    On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 09:42:25 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 18/03/22 09:28, David Brown wrote:
    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    "peace" was used once in the speech - "fight" was 21 times. Count it
    yourself.
    ...
    And if you know anything about rhetoric (and that is something Trump
    /does/ know about), no one cares about "protest peacefully" near the
    beginning of the speech. It's the "we fight like hell" near the end
    that has the effect.
    ...
    How can this be difficult to understand?
    ...
    Read the speech. Listen to it. Listen to the crowd.

    Stop living in denial and stop making excuses for these dregs of humanity.

    There's none so deaf/blind as them's won't hear/see.

    People continue to believe things they want to believe,
    even when there's proof it is wrong.

    I make no excuses for people who break the law - and there were a few
    on Jan 6 - and heartily approve of the vast majority who were
    exercizing enumerated constitional rights.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Mar 18 18:14:56 2022
    On 18/03/2022 16:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:28:32 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:08:05 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 16/03/2022 18:51, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:15:38 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    Do you really have so little idea of what happened there? An armed and >>>> violent mob broke into a key government building in an attempt to stop >>>> the legal democratic process. People were killed, people were injured, >>>> state property was destroyed, critical democratic processes were
    disrupted, lives were threatened.

    Now, I expect that most of the crowd didn't realise what they were
    involved in, and how badly things could have gone. Most Trump
    supporters there were likely totally clueless to the political and
    democratic ramifications of what was going on - they already believe the >>>> complete drivel that Trump had served them. And I believe the majority >>>> were not interested in violence, and certainly would not want to hurt
    anyone.

    Good. A few yahoos got rowdy. The BLM protests were far worse, with
    cities gutted and billions in damage.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>


    I note you totally failed to comprehend that point. Why am I not surprised?

    Violence is illegal no matter who does it.

    There you go again - opening your mouth but failing to engage any brain
    cells.

    The most obvious examples of legal violence are a country's military (state-sanctioned violence), and police and other law-enforcement
    officers in the line of duty, adhering to their rules and regulations. Self-defence within appropriate reason is also usually legal even if it
    is violent.

    But the Left sees only one
    side of issues... astoundingly distorted.


    And where were "the left" when the Capitol was attacked? At home,
    watching the television - because they had nothing to do with it. What
    kind of irresponsible coward blames others for their own failings? The criminals who broke into the Capitol and attacked, threatened, injured
    and killed people were the head of the Trump "army". But it is people
    like /you/ - the witless, thoughtless, ignorant masses who cheered them
    on and attempt to justify the abuses of power, the lies, the destruction
    of your country, that enabled the insurrection. Or is your support
    /not/ based on blind ignorance - are you intentionally and knowingly
    selling out your country and the democracy and freedoms for which it
    stands? If so, what do /you/ gain by it? Tax breaks so that you can
    spend even more time skiing?


    A violent insurrection and attempted coup is not "a few yahoos getting
    rowdy".

    The BLM protests were not "far worse" by any stretch of the imagination,
    no city was "gutted", and the damages were many orders of magnitude away >>from being "billions". (That is not to say there was no mindless
    violence, looting and vandalism in connection with the BLM protests -
    there certainly was.)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8740609/Rioting-140-cities-George-Floyds-death-cost-insurance-industry-2-BILLION.html

    https://fee.org/articles/george-floyd-riots-caused-record-setting-2-billion-in-damage-new-report-says-here-s-why-the-true-cost-is-even-higher/


    Fair enough. But it is still not /remotely/ relevant.


    And no matter how much you may disagree with the BLM movement or their
    actions, it is not an excuse for trying to bring down American democracy!

    There are violent loonies on the
    far fringes of the left and the right. Some people enjoy violence.


    On that, we agree.

    The astounding thing in this case was that it was the then president of
    the USA that was the violent loony in charge.

    Try thinking and not emoting once in a while.


    The difference is, I think about other people - if you think at all, it
    can't have been more than navel gazing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Mar 18 17:36:51 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 09:42:25 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 18/03/22 09:28, David Brown wrote:
    On 17/03/2022 17:21, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    "peace" was used once in the speech - "fight" was 21 times. Count it
    yourself. ... And if you know anything about rhetoric (and that is
    something Trump /does/ know about), no one cares about "protest
    peacefully" near the beginning of the speech. It's the "we fight like
    hell" near the end that has the effect. ... How can this be difficult
    to understand? ... Read the speech. Listen to it. Listen to the
    crowd.

    Stop living in denial and stop making excuses for these dregs of
    humanity.

    There's none so deaf/blind as them's won't hear/see.

    People continue to believe things they want to believe, even when
    there's proof it is wrong.

    I make no excuses for people who break the law - and there were a few
    on Jan 6 - and heartily approve of the vast majority who were
    exercizing enumerated constitional rights.

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971. In 4 years, he proclaimed the most lies of any president
    of the United States. He attempted to retain the presidency by claiming the election was fake and started the "Stop the Steal" insurrection. Around 640 people were arrested, and many thousands of conspirators are under investigation. The revolt aimed to hang Mike Pence and stop the peaceful transition of power. It almost succeeded. Trump will be imprisoned for his numerous crimes.

    Trump showed the GOP how to lie and mislead the country. The Republicans
    have started to take over the country. They are following Stalins Dictum:
    "It doesn't matter who votes or who they voted for. What matters is who
    counts the votes." Republicans are doing exactly that. They are taking over local election boards, enacting onerous election restriction laws, and establishing numerous methods to take over the elections. They will
    succeed.

    You can say goodbye to democracy and the rule of law. Republicans will
    elect a president who will pardon Trump and everyone involved with him, and start a rule that will last for decades. Human rights will be abolished,
    such as abortion in Texas and other states, ban books in Florida,
    gerrymander voting districts in Ohio, and fill the Supreme Court with conservatives. Democrats are helpless.




    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Fri Mar 18 18:19:03 2022
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the presidency on January 20, 1921.



    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Fri Mar 18 19:58:41 2022
    On 2022-03-18 19:19, Mike Monett wrote:
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the presidency on January 20, 1921.

    Maybe you shouldn't try to post anything when you've had a glass
    or two.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Mar 18 12:59:15 2022
    On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:20:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 5:19:20 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

    ... because you can't find a Trump call to violence.

    I hold Trump responsible for incitement of an angry crowd, created by his >propoganda hinting at illegality and disrespecting the certified electoral votes.
    I hold Trump responsible for sending that crowd to interrupt Congress at work.

    "I hold" gets you exactly one vote.

    Our elected representatives, in Congress assembled, had a majority vote exactly the
    same way. How did YOUR representative vote? Do you even know?

    Yes, when I make a personal claim, that is exactly one vote. I'm PROUD of my vote.
    I crafted it from fine materials, using sound judgment.

    Try to really engage deeply with an issue, some time. There's depths you never
    will appreciate, that most people ARE aware of. Bafflegab just hurts the process.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Criminal LIAR IEEE on Fri Mar 18 14:59:31 2022
    Criminal LIAR IEEE bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    ===================================

    People continue to believe things they want to believe,
    even when there's proof it is wrong.

    ** Made so much easier when the *brain dead drones* refuse to even view the proof.
    Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else.
    ( Or the Australian ABC - no difference )

    Phil can't have watched both of them if he thinks that.

    ** Both support absurd left wing nonsense to the hilt and censor all reporting of the heinous activities & crimes committed by the US Dems.


    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.
    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    Phil didn't even finish college - in Australia

    ** But he was a top student whilst at Sydney Uni in Math and Physics, passing special honors level courses in both.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.
    This IS their pathetic motive and the absolute truth.

    ** Vilest people on earth.



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Fri Mar 18 15:02:59 2022
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:

    [..]
    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the presidency on January 20, 1921.

    ** ROTFLMAO !!!

    Wot a fucking hoot !!!!!!!!!!!!.

    Not even the clearly demented Biden makes such completely idiotic gaffes.



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Sat Mar 19 01:58:32 2022
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote in news:XnsAE5E91A54D58idtokenpost@144.76.35.252:

    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency
    on January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost
    the presidency on January 20, 1921.




    Still screwed up.

    Donald John Trump was inaugurated on 20 JAN 2016.

    Donald John Trump was Impeached on 18 DEC 2019 for crimes he
    committed where he tried to use the government of Ukraine to smear an
    election opponent.

    Donald John Trump's senatorial criminal accessories to his Ukraine
    crimes released him from his impeachment on 16 JAN 20

    Donald John Trump lost the subsequent election on 3 NOV 2020.

    Donald John Trump was impeached a second time on 13 JAN 2021 for
    inciting a coup attempt, which he and his cabinet had planned for
    many days prior to the actual event.

    Donald John Trump claimed the election was stolen before election
    day even began.

    Donald John Trump

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 18 19:06:09 2022
    On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:19:03 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the >presidency on January 20, 1921.

    That's much better.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Sat Mar 19 02:21:55 2022
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 2022-03-18 19:19, Mike Monett wrote:
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the
    presidency on January 20, 1921.

    Maybe you shouldn't try to post anything when you've had a glass
    or two.

    Jeroen Belleman

    No, the strokes I received in 1920 numbed my right hand so badly I could
    not even pick up a spoon to feed myself. I am starting to recover slowly,
    but my right hand is still out of sync and I make typos often.

    I posted an article showing how salt will kill you with high blood
    pressure, strokes, and heart attacks. Unfortunately, everyone thinks they
    are immortal. The medical community is mostly ignorant of the danger of
    salt. I have yet to see a post linking salt to high blood pressure, and
    high blood pressure to strokes and heart attacks.

    I don't have a picture of the quadruple leg fracture I suffered during a
    fall from a stroke, but I do have a picture of head wounds I received from other falls. It is quite gruesome so sensitive people might wish to skip
    it.

    https://tinyurl.com/2p89pft5

    Here is a repost of my article:

    Stop Eating Salt.

    Heart Disease and Stroke Statistics - At-a-Glance
    (some sections omitted)

    Here are a few key statistics about heart disease, stroke, other
    cardiovascular diseases and their risk factors.

    The source for the health statistics is the association's 2015 Heart
    Disease and Stroke Statistics Update, which is compiled annually by
    the American Heart Association, the Centers for Disease Control and
    Prevention, the National Institutes of Health and other government
    sources.

    Heart Disease, Stroke and other Cardiovascular Diseases

    * Cardiovascular disease is the leading global cause of death,
    accounting for 17.3 million deaths per year, a number that is
    expected to grow to more than 23.6 million by 2030.

    * In 2008, cardiovascular deaths represented 30 percent of all
    global deaths, with 80 percent of those deaths taking place in low-
    and middle-income countries.

    * Nearly 787,000 people in the US died from heart disease, stroke
    and other cardiovascular diseases in 2011. That's about one of every
    three deaths in America.

    * About 2,150 Americans die each day from these diseases, one every
    40 seconds.

    * Cardiovascular diseases claim more lives than all forms of cancer
    combined.

    * About 85.6 million Americans are living with some form of
    cardiovascular disease or the after-effects of stroke.

    * Direct and indirect costs of cardiovascular diseases and stroke
    total more than $320.1 billion. That includes health expenditures
    and lost productivity.

    * Nearly half of all African-American adults have some form of
    cardiovascular disease, 48 percent of women and 46 percent of men.

    * Heart disease is the No. 1 cause of death in the world and the
    leading cause of death in the United States, killing over 375,000
    Americans a year.

    * Heart disease accounts for 1 in 7 deaths in the US

    * Someone in the US dies from heart disease about once every 90
    seconds.

    Heart Disease

    * From 2001 to 2011, the death rate from heart disease has fallen
    about 39 percent - but the burden and risk factors remain alarmingly
    high.

    * Heart disease strikes someone in the US about once every 43
    seconds.

    * Heart disease is the No. 1 cause of death in the United States,
    killing over 375,000 people a year.

    * Heart disease is the No. 1 killer of women, taking more lives than
    all forms of cancer combined.

    * Over 39,000 African-Americans died from heart disease in 2011.

    * Cardiovascular operations and procedures increased about 28
    percent from 2000 to 2010, according to federal data, totaling about
    7.6 million in 2010.

    * About 735,000 people in the US have heart attacks each year. Of
    those, about 120,000 die.

    * About 635,000 people in the US have a first-time heart attack each
    year, and about 300,000 have recurrent heart attacks.

    Stroke

    * In 2010, worldwide prevalence of stroke was 33 million, with 16.9
    million people having a first stroke. Stroke was the second-leading
    global cause of death behind heart disease, accounting for 11.13% of
    total deaths worldwide.

    * Stroke is the No. 5 cause of death in the United States, killing
    nearly 129,000 people a year.

    * Stroke kills someone in the US about once every four minutes.

    * African-Americans have nearly twice the risk for a first-ever
    stroke than white people, and a much higher death rate from stroke.

    * Over the past 10 years, the death rate from stroke has fallen
    about 35 percent and the number of stroke deaths has dropped about
    21 percent.

    * About 795,000 people have a stroke every year.

    * Someone in the US has a stroke about once every 40 seconds.

    * Stroke causes 1 of every 20 deaths in the US

    * Stroke is a leading cause of disability.

    * Stroke is the leading preventable cause of disability.

    Healthy Diet

    * Less than 1 percent of US adults meet the American Heart
    Association's definition for "Ideal Healthy Diet." Essentially no
    children meet the definition.

    OF THE 5 COMPONENTS OF A HEALTHY DIET, REDUCING SODIUM AND
    INCREASING WHOLE GRAINS ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES.

    High Blood Pressure

    * About 80 million US adults have high blood pressure. That's about
    33 percent. About 77 percent of those are using antihypertensive
    medication, but only 54 of those have their condition controlled.

    * About 69 percent of people who have a first heart attack, 77
    percent of people who have a first stroke and 74 percent who have
    congestive heart failure have blood pressure higher than 140/90 mm
    Hg.

    * Nearly half of people with high blood pressure (46 percent) do not
    have it under control.

    https://www.heart.org/idc/groups/ahamah-public/@wcm/@sop/




    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Fri Mar 18 19:31:25 2022
    On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 8:59:34 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    Bill....@ieee.org wrote:

    <snip>

    ** Made so much easier when the *brain dead drones* refuse to even view the proof.
    Witless, IEEE Bill and Brown are all TOTALLY BRAINWASHED with Dem party propaganda.
    Must all watch CNN 24/7 and nothing else. ( Or the Australian ABC - no difference )

    Phil can't have watched both of them if he thinks that.

    As usual he has snipped my observatio about having watched both and not getting that impression.

    ** Both support absurd left wing nonsense to the hilt and censor all reporting of the heinous activities & crimes committed by the US Dems.

    Phil seems to believe that kind of nonsense. I doubt that even Sky/Fox News would risk making that kind of actionable claim, so he's probably relying on something even more rabidly right-wing on the web.

    " Bullshit Baffles Brains " and the above are infinitely baffled forever after.
    The weak minded LOVE being told what to think - and then regurgitating it.
    Just like most college students, but never grow beyond their juvenile naivety.

    Phil didn't even finish college - in Australia.

    ** But he was a top student whilst at Sydney Uni in Math and Physics, passing special honors level courses in both.

    But failed to complete the course. Precisely what deluded misapprehension got him thrown out, or persuaded him to drop out, hasn't been reported here, but he's posted enough deluded nonsense here - and defended his silly ideas sufficiently savagely -
    to let us make an educated guess.

    It makes them feel soooooo superior to everyone else.
    This IS their pathetic motive and the absolute truth.

    ** Vilest people on earth.

    Phil doesn't like it when his silly ideas provoke the reactions they deserve.

    At the moment Putin has a lock on the title of the vilest person on earth (though the Myanmar generals aren't far behind). Phil is rather short-sighted in his judgements.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Sat Mar 19 18:54:44 2022
    On 2022-03-19 03:21, Mike Monett wrote:
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 2022-03-18 19:19, Mike Monett wrote:
    Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> wrote:

    [..]

    Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1917, and lost the presidency on
    January 20, 1971.

    Horrible typos. Trump was inagurated on January 20, 1971, and lost the
    presidency on January 20, 1921.

    Maybe you shouldn't try to post anything when you've had a glass
    or two.

    Jeroen Belleman

    No, the strokes I received in 1920 numbed my right hand so badly I could
    not even pick up a spoon to feed myself. [...]

    Sorry to hear that. My apologies for the quip. Get well soon.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Sat Mar 19 21:43:53 2022
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 2022-03-19 03:21, Mike Monett wrote:

    [...]

    No, the strokes I received in 1920 numbed my right hand so badly I could
    not even pick up a spoon to feed myself. [...]

    Sorry to hear that. My apologies for the quip. Get well soon.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Thanks.

    I was lucky. Even after seven strokes I'm still alive. But I'm hoping to
    get people to switch from sodium chloride to potassium chloride. The body
    needs a balance between sodium and potassium, called the sodium-potassium balance. We get plenty of sodium in the form of meat, seafood, soups, and
    other sources, but there are no rich sources of potassium. It is available
    in products such as Salt Free, NoSalt, Morton Salt Substitute, and other
    pure potassium products, but doctors recommend against them if you are
    diabetic or have kidney disease.

    Another very effective protection against strokes is to take baby aspirin,
    81 mg in Canada. Many doctors are vehemently against this due to the risk
    of intestinal bleeding, but it is easy to find out if you are susceptible.

    If you have taken aspirin before without problems, you are probably ok. But
    it is easy to tell if you have a problem. Just look for blood in the stool.

    I was taking 1,000 mg tablets for a long time until I learned that 81 mg
    were just as effective. I had no problems at all, which leads me to believe doctors are extremely risk-averse. But they won't mention the numerous side effects of the pills they would give you instead.

    The risks of a stroke or heart attack increase with age. By then, most
    people are so full of pharmaceuticals they cannot take any more without the risk of serious interactions. I prefer to stay out of that trap and take as
    few drugs as possible. As a result, I take only Salt Free and the
    occasional baby aspirin. This astonishes most nurses who come to dress my
    head wounds. They rarely find anyone my age (80) who is not on a diet of
    pills. And I'd like to keep it that way.

    Another good instrument is a blood pressure monitor. These are available in
    any drugstore or online. Get one that wraps around the upper arm, not
    around the wrist. They are available on Amazon Canada for around $50. Your blood pressure will increase with age, but you can watch how your body
    responds to different foods and exercise routines. There is nothing more effective at reminding you that you are trying to take care of your health.

    Salt will kill you if you let it. But you can stop it very easily.




    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 20 22:02:04 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    They adopted the Renaisance and, in the last century, they adopted the Industrial Revolution, but they never showed any interest in the Magna
    Carta or the Enlightenment. Nor does China or East Asia. Japan adopted
    the Industrial Revolution but we had to force the rest of our philosophy
    on them.

    Unfortunately the US education system, even long before it was
    politicized, had no interest in the Magna Carta either. In primary and secondary school, and in my college history courses, it was never
    mentioned at all. Most Americans never heard of it.

    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Mar 20 22:06:18 2022
    Cursitor Doom wrote:

    For once I'm largely in agreement with you. The common perception
    among Lefties in the West is that the 1917 Russian Revolution would
    have ushered in a utopia were it not for the advent of Joe Stalin.
    Just about all the ills of the old Soviet Union were blamed on Uncle
    Joe. But if you read into it, you'll see that Lenin was instituting
    pogroms against ordinary Russians as early as Spring 1919. The dream
    died well before Uncle Joe came on the scene, I can promise you that.
    But you're right to say that pyschopaths do very well and rise to the
    top in Russia for some reason. And not just in government, but in the
    Organs of State as well.

    Even Stalin waited until he was 5 years in office before he really
    cracked down. A lot of things had to be done in sequence, and Lenin
    would have followed the same sequence had he lived.

    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Tom Del Rosso on Sun Mar 20 19:33:24 2022
    On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:02:11 PM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    All true of course, but there is more to it than just Putin, who
    managed to discard the term they had and would have saved the
    world the trouble he is now.
    The Russians are an extremely patient folk and apparently there
    is something with their mass psyche, too many psychopaths
    make it too often to the top job there. In essence, they (and not
    just they but they are large enough to matter) have not yet had
    their magna carta, let alone the subsequent social development.

    They adopted the Renaisance and, in the last century, they adopted the Industrial Revolution, but they never showed any interest in the Magna
    Carta or the Enlightenment.

    Wrong, Catherine the Great was a decidedly enlightened monarch, if an absolutist one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Enlightenment

    Nor does China or East Asia. Japan adopted the Industrial Revolution but we had to force the rest of our philosophy on them.

    They took their time about ..adopting the bits they liked

    Unfortunately the US education system, even long before it was
    politicized, had no interest in the Magna Carta either. In primary and secondary school, and in my college history courses, it was never
    mentioned at all. Most Americans never heard of it.

    Probably correctly. The original Magna Carta was just one more negotiated deal between the king and the aristocracy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

    Seventeenth century lawyers misread read it as much more general document than it had been intended to be. and it served as a useful myth.

    The real problem with the US education system is that the primary and secondary schools are controlled and funded by tiny local school districts. Rich districts have well-funded schools. The rest get the bare minimum. The US constitution was written
    before the agricultural revolution had made universal education feasible, and while the country adopted universal education pretty much as soon as it could, it did it as an after thought. Everywhere else it is managed and financed at the state or
    province level, and poor kids do rather better.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Mon Mar 21 00:38:34 2022
    Anthony William Sloman wrote:

    Wrong, Catherine the Great was a decidedly enlightened monarch, if an absolutist one.

    Right, absolutely enlightened.


    The real problem with the US education system is that the primary and secondary schools are controlled and funded by tiny local school
    districts. Rich districts have well-funded schools. The rest get the
    bare minimum. The US constitution was written before the agricultural revolution had made universal education feasible, and while the
    country adopted universal education pretty much as soon as it could,
    it did it as an after thought. Everywhere else it is managed and
    financed at the state or province level, and poor kids do rather
    better.

    That must be why the schools in my tiny district of New York City has
    such great public schools, since they spend around 20k per student per
    year.


    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Tom Del Rosso on Sun Mar 20 23:38:56 2022
    On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:38:46 PM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
    Anthony William Sloman wrote:

    Wrong, Catherine the Great was a decidedly enlightened monarch, if an absolutist one.
    Right, absolutely enlightened.
    The real problem with the US education system is that the primary and secondary schools are controlled and funded by tiny local school
    districts. Rich districts have well-funded schools. The rest get the
    bare minimum. The US constitution was written before the agricultural revolution had made universal education feasible, and while the
    country adopted universal education pretty much as soon as it could,
    it did it as an after thought. Everywhere else it is managed and
    financed at the state or province level, and poor kids do rather
    better.
    That must be why the schools in my tiny district of New York City has
    such great public schools, since they spend around 20k per student per
    year.

    New York State does spend the most - $25,520 per head per year - averaged over the whole state.

    https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics

    The national average is quite a lot lower, and Utah spends only $7,478 per head per year.

    The medians would be more interesting. I suspect that the average is pulled up a lot by a limited number of high spending school districts, and the median will be quite a lot closer to Utah's average.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)