• OT: What is NATO for?

    From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 7 03:00:10 2022
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its
    infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the
    ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 6 19:13:30 2022
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 2:00:20 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Russia isn't attacking the Ukraine to preserve its national existence. Putin may be worried that a neighbouring country whose government is making some progress in clearing out corruption may set an example that might lead to Putin's racket in Russia
    becoming less profitable for Putin and his fellow kleptocrats.

    The international financial sanctions may have made that a serious miscalculation.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.

    How is "meddling in the Ukraine" helping NATO set up a first strike capability? NATO has ballistic missile submarines, which gives it a massive second strike capability.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 6 19:29:52 2022
    On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 7:00:20 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability

    Huh? Most NATO countries aren't known for 'first strike' activity. Do
    you know something about Belgium that I don't? And Canada?

    against Russia, not to defend anything.

    After USSR's invasion of Poland, and the subsequent mass graves under Katyn forest, the idea of defense was most certainly foremost in the founding NATO members.

    That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.
    'WE' being Vladimir Putin and who else?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 6 22:16:20 2022
    On 3/6/2022 10:00 PM, John Doe wrote:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.



    NATO is for cheer-leading the invasion of 3rd world countries by a
    superpower called the USA, based on whatever flimsy pretexts the USA
    dreams up, but then freaking out when a different superpower does the
    same to a country in its own backyard. Oh shit!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 7 04:09:26 2022
    WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE ENTERTAIN BOZO FOR A WHILE.

    Thank you.

    Bozo Bill Sloman is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be
    reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 6 20:16:29 2022
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 3:09:39 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE ENTERTAIN BOZO FOR A WHILE.

    John Doe does seem to be seeking attention here.

    Thank you.

    John Doe's gratitude is worth about as much as his posts.

    Quite why he persists in reposting the same old rubbish escapes me. Maybe he is afraid that we'll forget that he is our most persistent troll.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 7 04:15:44 2022
    whit3rd wrote:

    John Doe wrote:

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability

    Huh? Most NATO countries aren't known for 'first strike' activity. Do
    you know something about Belgium that I don't? And Canada?

    This is the first result on Google for (first strike capability)...

    "the ability to use nuclear missiles in an opening attack calculated to
    destroy the enemy's nuclear weapons"

    Alzheimer's? Working too hard, not enough free time to learn stuff?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Mar 6 22:20:23 2022
    On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 8:15:54 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    John Doe wrote:

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability

    Huh? Most NATO countries aren't known for 'first strike' activity. Do
    you know something about Belgium that I don't? And Canada?

    This is the first result on Google for (first strike capability)...

    "the ability to use nuclear missiles in an opening attack calculated to destroy the enemy's nuclear weapons"

    Irrelevant to the intentions of Belgium, Canada, and other members of
    NATO. It's also not a capability NATO has, unless there's some
    vulnerability I don't know of, regarding Typhoon class submarines
    inherited from the USSR. Why would one think NATO's "only reason" is
    a capability that hasn't been seen during over half a century?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Mon Mar 7 06:39:47 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Idiot...

    --
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

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    Subject: Re: OT: What is NATO for?
    From: whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
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    On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 8:15:54 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    John Doe wrote:

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >> >
    Huh? Most NATO countries aren't known for 'first strike' activity. Do
    you know something about Belgium that I don't? And Canada?

    This is the first result on Google for (first strike capability)...

    "the ability to use nuclear missiles in an opening attack calculated to
    destroy the enemy's nuclear weapons"

    Irrelevant to the intentions of Belgium, Canada, and other members of
    NATO. It's also not a capability NATO has, unless there's some vulnerability I don't know of, regarding Typhoon class submarines
    inherited from the USSR. Why would one think NATO's "only reason" is
    a capability that hasn't been seen during over half a century?



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 7 07:27:15 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 7 Mar 2022 06:39:47 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t049bj$1bc$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    WTQBtqRLMsYm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Mon Mar 7 08:10:10 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

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    not-for-mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: OT: What is NATO for?
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me> <ee58521c-0ea6-4b24-8a02-1b772e979165n@googlegroups.com> <t040tg$g8c$2@dont-email.me> <313fdb34-271a-495a-ad90-8501ea0ba90fn@googlegroups.com> <t049bj$1bc$1@dont-email.me>
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    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 7 Mar 2022 06:39:47 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t049bj$1bc$1@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    WTQBtqRLMsYm




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to always.look@message.header on Mon Mar 7 09:06:14 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 7 08:55:47 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:10:10 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t04el2$f25$3@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

    DuTR//mOPKNt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Mar 7 01:53:47 2022
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 4:06:24 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >Ukraine.
    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,

    You are such a silly boy.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to user@example.net on Mon Mar 7 13:55:10 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 6 Mar 2022 22:16:20 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <8OeVJ.120890$z688.78237@fx35.iad>:

    On 3/6/2022 10:00 PM, John Doe wrote:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its
    infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the
    ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to
    preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability
    against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.



    NATO is for cheer-leading the invasion of 3rd world countries by a
    superpower called the USA, based on whatever flimsy pretexts the USA
    dreams up, but then freaking out when a different superpower does the
    same to a country in its own backyard. Oh shit!

    +1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Mon Mar 7 07:37:23 2022
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe ><always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >>Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Mar 7 08:36:52 2022
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 11:34:22 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >> <alway...@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>> infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>> whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now. >>>
    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>> ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>> they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.
    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Yes, that's why Putin is so fearful of having a NATO country next door, it would make Russia look weak through association.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 7 11:34:10 2022
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >> <always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its
    infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the
    ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be
    entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Mar 7 16:53:16 2022
    On 09:06 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying
    on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have
    the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our
    friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power
    is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but
    to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are >>meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified
    as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we
    do not want any commies here!" I replied "commies are also people"

    So empathy is not one of your strengths.

    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some
    called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated
    in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass destruction
    according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At the start of the
    Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the
    extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).

    You sound like Cordelia in Shakespeare's King Lear. She couldn't stop
    shooting her mouth off in the name of "honesty" and plain speaking. It
    ended up very, very badly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 7 17:09:11 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Mar 2022 07:37:23 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <lj9c2hlk1r8to9djcreuge0qv4lfiqm8er@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >><always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>>infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>>whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>>ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>>they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>>is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>>preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>>against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >>>Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.

    My German is OK, even went to a 4 week training there for AmpeX, no problem whatsoever with the language.
    My Russian sucks but as now 1TV on Hotbird 13 East satellite is the only TV channel from Russia I can see
    as evil westerners ;-) have RT English on Astra 2 blocked, my Russian exposure is increasing.
    1TV shows discussions all day long in Russian about Ukrain in front of a big chart that shows their advance.
    rt.com internet still works here.
    Is somehow more objective than CNN, CNN is not worth watching anymore these days,
    I think their people must be dis-disillusioned. (I check out fox news daily) China I check out too every day
    https://www.cgtn.com/
    as well as the German stations and the local news.
    What other languages do you speak apart from merricanisch?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Mar 7 09:14:32 2022
    On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:34:10 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >>> <always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>>> infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>>> whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now. >>>>
    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>>> ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>>> they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.


    Until Russia dreamed of empire again.


    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be >entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.



    Worse than useless.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Mar 7 11:56:01 2022
    On 3/7/2022 11:36 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 11:34:22 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >>>> <alway...@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>>>> infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>>>> whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now. >>>>>
    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>>>> ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>>>> they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>>>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>>>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>>>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >>>>> Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.
    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be
    entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Yes, that's why Putin is so fearful of having a NATO country next door, it would make Russia look weak through association.


    Post Soviet Union the Russian oligarchs (of which Putin is one of the
    biggest) has tended to view NATO as just a tool of US oligarchs e.g. the Bushes, the Clintons, and we-will-coup-anyone-we-want! Elon Musk:

    <https://twitter.com/panoparker/status/1318157559266762752?lang=en>

    to use as a door-knocker to bang on their front door (contrary to
    promises by Bush 1 administration et al that NATO wouldn't move
    eastwards), and in that at least they weren't far off the mark.

    The idea that Russia was unprovoked is as dumb as Putin's apparent
    belief that regular Ukrainians would want him up their ass any more than
    they particularly wanted NATO, at least until post-Crimea when they
    started to view it as a least-worst option.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Mar 7 12:02:50 2022
    On 3/7/2022 11:56 AM, bitrex wrote:

    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.
    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be
    entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Yes, that's why Putin is so fearful of having a NATO country next
    door, it would make Russia look weak through association.


    Post Soviet Union the Russian oligarchs (of which Putin is one of the biggest) has tended to view NATO as just a tool of US oligarchs e.g. the Bushes, the Clintons, and we-will-coup-anyone-we-want! Elon Musk:

    <https://twitter.com/panoparker/status/1318157559266762752?lang=en>

    ^ Look at the richest man in the world here, playing gangsta lol.

    Foolish to believe the real gangstas of the world like Putin wouldn't
    read this stuff and figure he wasn't going to be left out of the "fun",
    no way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Mon Mar 7 17:26:58 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Mar 2022 16:53:16 GMT) it happened Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in <XnsAE53ABCB3BD8B37B93@144.76.35.252>:

    On 09:06 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying
    on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have
    the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our
    friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power
    is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but
    to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are >>>meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified
    as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we
    do not want any commies here!" I replied "commies are also people"

    So empathy is not one of your strengths.

    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some
    called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated
    in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass destruction
    according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At the start of the
    Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the
    extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).

    You sound like Cordelia in Shakespeare's King Lear. She couldn't stop >shooting her mouth off in the name of "honesty" and plain speaking. It
    ended up very, very badly.

    Is that a threat name shifter?
    As soon as your diapers are dry come back in the world of real people.
    Maybe old wimin cannot fight like a man
    :-)
    LOL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 7 12:16:54 2022
    On 3/7/2022 12:14 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:34:10 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe >>>> <always.look@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>>>> infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>>>> whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now. >>>>>
    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>>>> ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>>>> they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>>>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>>>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>>>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >>>>> Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.


    Until Russia dreamed of empire again.


    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be
    entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.



    Worse than useless.


    I think you could turn the UN building into affordable housing and
    really improve the quality of life in Manhattan a lot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Mar 7 11:11:21 2022
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 11:56:14 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 11:36 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 11:34:22 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe
    <alway...@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its >>>>> infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the >>>>> whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now. >>>>>
    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the >>>>> ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If >>>>> they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to
    preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability
    against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in >>>>> Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some general,
    he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!"
    I replied "commies are also people"
    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example participated in the attack on Iraq
    (filled with weapons of mass destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated about all the extra
    sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later find a stronger predator.
    You 'merricans are all a pawn in their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are alive.
    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be
    entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Yes, that's why Putin is so fearful of having a NATO country next door, it would make Russia look weak through association.

    Post Soviet Union the Russian oligarchs (of which Putin is one of the biggest) has tended to view NATO as just a tool of US oligarchs e.g. the Bushes, the Clintons, and we-will-coup-anyone-we-want! Elon Musk:

    <https://twitter.com/panoparker/status/1318157559266762752?lang=en>

    to use as a door-knocker to bang on their front door (contrary to
    promises by Bush 1 administration et al that NATO wouldn't move
    eastwards), and in that at least they weren't far off the mark.

    The idea that Russia was unprovoked is as dumb as Putin's apparent
    belief that regular Ukrainians would want him up their ass any more than
    they particularly wanted NATO, at least until post-Crimea when they
    started to view it as a least-worst option.

    Your post is free form and not responsive to my comment. I guess anyone's post is as good as another when you just want to free associate.

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Mar 7 16:58:21 2022
    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 4:14:46 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:34:10 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote in <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a has-been for about 30 years.

    NATO forces have down useful stuff in and around Europe in the past thirty years. American newspapers haven't made much fuss about it.

    Until Russia dreamed of empire again.

    Politicians always dream of empire.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to be entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Worse than useless.

    By which John Larkin means that right-wing US politicians who want to use it to bully other countries into doing what they want done haven't been able to exploit it in that role, and have had endure the impertinence of being told that they were out of
    order.

    The rest of the world rather values that.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Mar 8 02:39:04 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    This troll is acting like its country's "Black Pete" clown, without the blackface...

    --
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: OT: What is NATO for?
    Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:55:10 GMT
    Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
    Lines: 28
    Message-ID: <t052ru$3h7$1@dont-email.me>
    References: <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me> <8OeVJ.120890$z688.78237@fx35.iad> Mime-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Injection-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:55:10 -0000 (UTC)
    Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2b1798f2aa5f58e5d7cee986e365077d"; logging-data="3623"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Juz9o8cmo5HVBn07BxYG8InlFjmV3LIw="
    User-Agent: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (Linux-2.6.37.6)
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:u9C71N95w61NzUWOhIau9gDTLjI=
    X-Newsreader-location: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (c) 'LIGHTSPEED' off line news reader for the Linux platform NewsFleX homepage: http://www.panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/ and ftp download ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/linux/system/news/readers/
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:662235

    On a sunny day (Sun, 6 Mar 2022 22:16:20 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <8OeVJ.120890$z688.78237@fx35.iad>:

    On 3/6/2022 10:00 PM, John Doe wrote:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its
    infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the
    ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia >>> is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to >>> preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability >>> against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in
    Ukraine.



    NATO is for cheer-leading the invasion of 3rd world countries by a >>superpower called the USA, based on whatever flimsy pretexts the USA
    dreams up, but then freaking out when a different superpower does the
    same to a country in its own backyard. Oh shit!

    +1



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 02:42:50 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 8 Mar 2022 02:39:04 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t06fk8$ah6$3@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    uerXWDTs055H

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez on Tue Mar 8 02:53:16 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can't get over it.

    Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
    except when it got a severe spanking...

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

    Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

    See also...
    Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

    Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don't get spanked!

    Spanked Eddie...

    --
    Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.freedyn.de!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx01.ams4.POSTED!
    not-for-mail
    From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: OT: What is NATO for?
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
    References: <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me> <8OeVJ.120890$z688.78237@fx35.iad> <t052ru$3h7$1@dont-email.me> <t06fk8$ah6$3@dont-email.me>
    Lines: 25
    Message-ID: <KozVJ.77993$8b1.54069@usenetxs.com>
    X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 02:42:50 UTC
    Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 02:42:50 GMT
    X-Received-Bytes: 1498
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:662298 free.spam:17422

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 8 Mar 2022 02:39:04 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t06fk8$ah6$3@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    uerXWDTs055H




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 02:54:16 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 8 Mar 2022 02:53:16 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t06ges$ah6$6@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    T9X98P4EhIs5

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 02:48:44 2022
    This incident is proving that English is all we need. Everybody is trying to speak English, most are doing well, I'm not criticizing any of them. I'm thrilled.

    There are a few exceptions, like the rabid anti-American "Jan Panteltje" from
    a racist, slave trading, child molesting country (Holland).

    A country changing its name won't erase its pathetic history.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 04:04:13 2022
    The problem is Western meddling in former Russian territories.

    This is from NATO's website...

    NATO welcomes Georgia's and Ukraine's aspirations for membership

    It's not about defense, it's about establishing a first strike capability.





    I wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 7 20:10:51 2022
    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 1:54:53 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    This incident is proving that English is all we need. Everybody is trying to speak English, most are doing well, I'm not criticizing any of them. I'm thrilled.

    There are a few exceptions, like the rabid anti-American "Jan Panteltje" from
    a racist, slave trading, child molesting country (Holland).

    It's actually the Netherlands - technically the United Provinces of the Netherlands. North and South Holland are the biggest provinces.

    A country changing its name won't erase its pathetic history.

    If you knew what the name of the country was, your claim to know something about it's history might have some plausiblity (not that anything that you post is going to be seen as particularly reliable).

    The Netherlands isn't well known for child molestation - the Roman Catholic Church in the US has a higher profile for that (though the Roman Catholic Church in Australia seems to have been just as bad). As for slave trading - the English and Americans
    were just as enthusiastic about it back when it was popular, and the US had to fight a civil war to get rid of it.

    Racist is a bit strange, coming from an American.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 7 20:37:45 2022
    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 3:27:43 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE ENTERTAIN BOZO FOR A WHILE...

    <snip>

    They don't need to bother making a special effort. John Doe and Flyguy are serving up quite enough obvious idiocies to provide me with a target-rich environment.
    They are a bit too stupid to realise that the barbs are on target, but I don't need a particularly extravagant reward to stay motivated.

    <snipped recycled targets>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 7 20:31:26 2022
    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 3:04:23 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    The problem is Western meddling in former Russian territories.

    Whereas Russian meddling with, and actually invading, former Russian territory is perfectly okay, no matter how little the inhabitants like the idea?

    This is from NATO's website...

    NATO welcomes Georgia's and Ukraine's aspirations for membership

    It's not about defense, it's about establishing a first strike capability.

    Twaddle. Mutual assured destruction depends on having a second strike capability that could survive a first strike.

    Once both sides have got that, establishing a first strike capability gets to be impossible.

    NATO is more about inhibiting the salami strategy, where the aggressor limits itself to aggressions that are too small to be worht starting a war over.

    I wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the whole freaking Earth.

    We can't. We might be able to bomb ourselves back a few centuries, but nobody is going to bother trying to do any more than that, even if they could.

    That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Not exactly.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world.

    You don't.

    Nobody will attack our friends.

    Russia has just attacked the Ukraine, and the rest of the world is being decidedly pro-Ukraine. Maybe you'd beter think that out again.


    If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    Not that I've noticed. There's no such thing as a "small nuclear weapon". Start spreading radioactive pollution around, and you are going to get to be terminally unpopular, and run the risk of massive strike aimed at making it difficult for you launch
    many more.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Russia has attacked the Ukraine when the Ukraine doesn't seem to present any threat to Russia's continued existence.

    The existence of a more-or-less corruption-free regime in the Ukraine does threaten the continued existed of a corrupt and klepocrat regime in Rissia, which isn't quite the same problem.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in the Ukraine.

    Except that we weren't.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 04:26:19 2022
    https://youtu.be/MY3JsqVR_04

    The first two reference videos inside of that video.







    I wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 04:27:33 2022
    WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE ENTERTAIN BOZO FOR A WHILE...


    Bozo Bill Sloman is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be
    reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 06:05:20 2022
    Bozo Bill Sloman is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be
    reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 8 06:36:42 2022
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    news:t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Oh boy! An utter idiot with no clue what the word DETERRENCE
    means. You must have been jacking off for the last 60 years.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe?

    You not knowing is proof you never did and likely never will
    understand what is going on in the world.

    We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world.

    No shit, Schleprock.

    Nobody will attack
    our friends.

    You must still have your head up Trump's fat ass. WAKE UP.
    That is exactly what IS taking place.

    If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.

    I said yesterday that we should. Right onto the Kremlin.

    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    You are so wrong. You have to pull your head out of Trump's ass
    and stop watching Fucktard Faux Nonnews.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Then we should give one to Ukraine and let them destroy Moscow, and
    one existence invading asshole will no longer exist.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.

    Wrong again. NATO is about defense. OUR strike capacity comes
    from having airbases in the nations of our allies, distinctly
    separate from NATO and their mission.

    You really ain't that bright. Man you should run over and marry
    Jan Pan the Nederlander totla retard. You guys are meant for each
    other.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Mar 8 06:46:12 2022
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in
    news:8OeVJ.120890$z688.78237@fx35.iad:

    On 3/6/2022 10:00 PM, John Doe wrote:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.



    NATO is for cheer-leading the invasion of 3rd world countries by a
    superpower called the USA, based on whatever flimsy pretexts the
    USA dreams up, but then freaking out when a different superpower
    does the same to a country in its own backyard. Oh shit!


    Well you are again wrong on your first non point. No surprise
    there. Russia hardly qualifies as a super power any more other than
    that they have a nuclear arsenal from decades ago that we are able to
    destroy mid flight.

    The Ruble is only worth a few pennies right now, because they never
    had a decent export GDP to start with. The only things they are
    exporting are flying lead and shrapnel and disinforming propaganda.

    The US (or Ukraine) very likely COULD get a nuke directly into
    Moscow unfettered, whereas Russia would very likely fail to commit
    the same act against us. Despite his "no fly warning" he gave, his
    real intention is to provoke us into a defne=sive resonse which he
    can then claim was offensive in nature in order to expand his
    attempts to harm our nation. No more escorts out of airspace they do
    not belong in. Russian bombers flying toward US airspce get ONE
    warning, and then they get shot out of the sky, and you may never
    hear of it because Putin can't decide what he wants. He just wants
    anything we do to stop him to appear as a heinious unprovoked attack
    against Russia, so he can then start claiming it it OK to hit our
    bases in Europe. He will lose this chess match, I guarantee.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Mar 8 07:10:40 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:t04hu5$bvq$1@dont-email.me:

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.

    Probably just another old fart lie.

    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who
    identified as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje
    you know we do not want any commies here!" I replied "commies are
    also people" That was the end of that.

    The only good commie is a dead commie. You a commie, fucktard?
    CCAD, motherfucker.

    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways
    (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    Oh boy... a TV Tard.

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.

    Yes, you indeed are completely nuts.

    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force,

    You are a goddamned idiot and a liar as well.

    for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).

    You certainly would not know what they did or did not have, or what
    NATO's role in any actions there were about.

    At
    the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics,

    Another lie, decidedly so, because you cannot even fucking spell
    the name of a company you claim to have worked for.

    they were
    elated about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or later
    find a stronger predator. You 'merricans are all a pawn in their
    game,

    You are an absolute retard, Jan Pantelje.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Mar 8 07:11:40 2022
    Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:af284a56-e962-4475-a5cf-2b603b1b82a2n@googlegroups.com:

    On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 4:06:24 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
    John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:
    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack
    anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.
    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who
    identified as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr
    Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!" I replied
    "commies are also people" That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways
    (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At
    the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were
    elated about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or
    later find a stronger predator. You 'merricans are all a pawn in
    their game,

    You are such a silly boy.


    Yeah, that's really tellin' him! You go... GIRL!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Mar 8 07:23:39 2022
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in
    news:7uqVJ.76009$41E7.1144@fx37.iad:

    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it
    happened John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia
    is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack
    anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why
    we are meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who
    identified as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr
    Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!" I replied
    "commies are also people" That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways
    (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state).
    At the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they
    were elated about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).
    Its a free world, Military Industrial Complex will sooner or
    later find a stronger predator. You 'merricans are all a pawn in
    their game,


    and you aren't speaking either German or Russian. And you are
    alive.

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been a
    has-been for about 30 years.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN to
    be entirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Not if they expell Russia (this week). I mean, you know... it's
    right there in the name. UNITED nations, not invader of nations.

    NATO still has purpose. Just likely beyond the grasp of
    polititards... like you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Pamela on Tue Mar 8 07:34:43 2022
    Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in news:XnsAE53ABCB3BD8B37B93@144.76.35.252:

    On 09:06 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who
    identified as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr
    Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!" I replied
    "commies are also people"

    So empathy is not one of your strengths.

    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways
    (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At
    the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were
    elated about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).

    You sound like Cordelia in Shakespeare's King Lear. She couldn't
    stop shooting her mouth off in the name of "honesty" and plain
    speaking. It ended up very, very badly.

    Good girl! +1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Mar 8 07:46:55 2022
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in news:b6rVJ.50330$dln7.25827
    @fx03.iad:

    I think you could turn the UN building into affordable housing and
    really improve the quality of life in Manhattan a lot


    What you think would be "affordable housing" in NYC, much less
    Manhattan shows not much grasp of the situation in NYC.

    There are waiting lines for ANY abode there and that includes
    basement closets used as apartments because greedy landlors know they
    could rent out a bathroom and call it an apartment and get away with
    it. 18.87 million people packed into 305 square miles, and that is ALL
    of NYC. Manhattan is more dense than the rest of the city, so some of
    those millions are all packed in down there.

    One friggin' building would be like shooting a BB at a bowling ball.
    Net result ZERO movement. Same thing for us trying to divert an
    asteroid impact. BB into a bowling ball. More like micro-BB, Macro-
    bowling ball.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Mar 8 07:48:12 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:t05f8v$cdm$1@dont-email.me:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Mar 2022 16:53:16 GMT) it happened Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in <XnsAE53ABCB3BD8B37B93@144.76.35.252>:

    On 09:06 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it
    happened John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is >>>>relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack
    anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike >>>>capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands
    Was already designing things for army and navy here back then.
    All went well until I got an interview with somebody who
    identified as some general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr
    Panteltje you know we do not want any commies here!" I replied
    "commies are also people"

    So empathy is not one of your strengths.

    That was the end of that.
    Went to work for the national TV network, more my thing anyways
    (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO,
    completely nuts if you ask me.
    NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At
    the start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were
    elated about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised.
    I gave my opinion and left (was offered a contract).

    You sound like Cordelia in Shakespeare's King Lear. She couldn't
    stop shooting her mouth off in the name of "honesty" and plain
    speaking. It ended up very, very badly.

    Is that a threat name shifter?
    As soon as your diapers are dry come back in the world of real
    people. Maybe old wimin cannot fight like a man
    :-)
    LOL

    Damn what a complete pussy you must be to consider that as any kind
    of threat.

    Damn you are fucking retarded, old man. DIE ALREADY. DO IT NOW.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Tue Mar 8 07:49:40 2022
    Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in news:92952b90-4f12-45b7-9081-0a414959ebe7n@googlegroups.com:

    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 4:14:46 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:34:10 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net>
    wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 10:37 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 09:06:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com
    wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it
    happened Joh
    n Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me>:

    NATO wasn't always tits-on-a-bull, but it's a has-been. Has been
    a has-b
    een for about 30 years.

    NATO forces have down useful stuff in and around Europe in the
    past thirty years. American newspapers haven't made much fuss
    about it.

    Until Russia dreamed of empire again.

    Politicians always dream of empire.

    Unlike my erudite right-wing associates I don't consider the UN
    to be en
    tirely useless, though.

    Only next-to-useless.

    Worse than useless.

    By which John Larkin means that right-wing US politicians who want
    to use it to bully other countries into doing what they want done
    haven't been able to exploit it in that role, and have had endure
    the impertinence of being told that they were out of order.

    The rest of the world rather values that.

    Definite plus one level observation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Dope on Tue Mar 8 08:13:42 2022
    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t06kjt$uit$1@dont-email.me:

    The problem is Western meddling in former Russian territories.

    This is from NATO's website...

    NATO welcomes Georgia's and Ukraine's aspirations for membership

    It's not about defense, it's about establishing a first strike
    capability.

    I wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was
    in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers
    can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.


    No, idiot. It is about DEFENDING AGAINST the "first strike"
    capability and desires of despotic dictator who took over a nation
    illegally, and invades other nations with that nation's military arm.
    A former spy and one of the biggest criminals on the planet even
    before he pulled these stupid military moves.

    If we (the US) started "mile walking" tanks and troops in a line
    into Russia, mile by mile, he would puke and die militarily, but his
    response would be to launch the missiles he made threats with only
    last week. NATO and the US ned to be able to defend against such a
    choice, and THAT is what missile defense systems at that level are
    about. Putin is not Hamas. These systems are not like what the IDF
    uses.

    You aint real right, John Dope.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Mar 8 07:38:56 2022
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in
    news:COqVJ.105804$aT3.100796@fx09.iad:

    Post Soviet Union the Russian oligarchs (of which Putin is one of
    the biggest)

    Putin IS the biggest thieving realty fraud ala Trump idiot in the
    world, and in ANY free nation he would be imprisoned for such fraud,
    just as we are preparing to do to the dipshit Daddy trained TrumpTard
    now under such close scrutiny... Finally.

    Snipped complete and utter bullshit from the apparent Putin
    sympathizing idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Tue Mar 8 10:22:39 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Always Wrong is off its meds again...

    --
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!5U2ooNuM5UP0Ynf/GmOnCg.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: OT: What is NATO for?
    Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 06:36:42 -0000 (UTC)
    Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
    Message-ID: <t06thq$1okq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
    References: <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>
    Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="58010"; posting-host="5U2ooNuM5UP0Ynf/GmOnCg.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
    User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
    X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:662329

    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Oh boy! An utter idiot with no clue what the word DETERRENCE
    means. You must have been jacking off for the last 60 years.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe?

    You not knowing is proof you never did and likely never will
    understand what is going on in the world.

    We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world.

    No shit, Schleprock.

    Nobody will attack
    our friends.

    You must still have your head up Trump's fat ass. WAKE UP.
    That is exactly what IS taking place.

    If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.

    I said yesterday that we should. Right onto the Kremlin.

    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    You are so wrong. You have to pull your head out of Trump's ass
    and stop watching Fucktard Faux Nonnews.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Then we should give one to Ukraine and let them destroy Moscow, and
    one existence invading asshole will no longer exist.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.

    Wrong again. NATO is about defense. OUR strike capacity comes
    from having airbases in the nations of our allies, distinctly
    separate from NATO and their mission.

    You really ain't that bright. Man you should run over and marry
    Jan Pan the Nederlander totla retard. You guys are meant for each
    other.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 10:48:31 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 8 Mar 2022 10:22:39 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t07apf$8ka$5@dont-email.me>).

    Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
    (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET has been 52.8% of its posts contributing "nothing except
    insults" to USENET.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    labwuqKdTLvk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 8 04:34:37 2022
    On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 9:22:49 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
    DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote in news:t03sfp$lis$1...@dont-email.me:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Oh boy! An utter idiot with no clue what the word DETERRENCE means. You must have been jacking off for the last 60 years.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe?

    You not knowing is proof you never did and likely never will understand what is going on in the world.

    We have the ability to destroy the whole world.

    No shit, Schleprock.

    Nobody will attack our friends.

    You must still have your head up Trump's fat ass. WAKE UP.
    That is exactly what IS taking place.

    If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.

    I said yesterday that we should. Right onto the Kremlin.

    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    You are so wrong. You have to pull your head out of Trump's ass and stop watching Fucktard Faux Nonnews.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Then we should give one to Ukraine and let them destroy Moscow, and one existence invading asshole will no longer exist.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.

    Wrong again. NATO is about defense. OUR strike capacity comes from having airbases in the nations of our allies, distinctly separate from NATO and their mission.

    Some of it. The ballistic-missile carrying nuclear submarines come into it too.

    You really ain't that bright. Man you should run over and marry
    Jan Panteltje the Nederlander total retard. You guys are meant for each other.

    Always Wrong is off its meds again...

    As if John Doe was taking his ...

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 8 13:57:21 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:27:23 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t07ljr$9u7$5@dont-email.me>).

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
    follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    fnnaK5uVGSud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Mar 22 02:24:07 2022
    This is the problem with NATO expansion.

    https://youtu.be/oKV_utFLXrw?t=305 (about 3 minutes worth)

    That retired Lieutenant Colonel explains why Russia can do without an organization like NATO. He points out that Russia plans to repel NATO with tactical nukes. The only recourse would be to use nukes in return and
    start World War III. Then we all lose, not just Russia.

    But of course there are some suicidal people in the world. Seems like
    lots!






    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the
    whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If
    they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia
    is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Mar 21 20:36:28 2022
    On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 1:24:14 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:

    John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote:

    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them. That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything but to preserve its own existence.

    Putin seems to think that his continued existence depends on nibbling away bits of the Ukraine. Once he got all of it, he's likely to start wanting something else.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we are meddling in Ukraine.

    John doe doesn't seem to have noticed intercontinental ballistic missiles provide a first strike capability that's totally independent of NATO. He's insane.

    This is the problem with NATO expansion.

    https://youtu.be/oKV_utFLXrw?t=305 (about 3 minutes worth)

    Fox News can find the kind of right-wing nutcases that sound good to idiots like John Doe.
    The speaker sounds quite as demented as John Doe which is worrying. The US doesn't seem to treating their lunatics - "care in the community" is cheap, but raving lunatics spouting total nonsense on prime time television does degrade the environment
    quite a lot.

    Less articulate raving lunatics do seem to have become the Fox News target audience.

    That retired Lieutenant Colonel explains why Russia can do without an organization like NATO.

    Obviously. NATO is a defensive alliance against the kind of territorial expansion Russia ins going after in the Ukraine. Russia would much prefer to able to conquer it neighbors one at a time with having to deal with their pesky allies.

    He points out that Russia plans to repel NATO with tactical nukes.

    That's what he thinks that Russia plans to do. The response might be a single hydrogen bomb on the place Putin happens to be shortly after that tactical nuke went off. The underlying logic is exactly the same.

    The only recourse would be to use nukes in return and start World War III. Then we all lose, not just Russia.

    Unless, of course, that tactical nuke started WW3, which it could well do.

    But of course there are some suicidal people in the world. Seems like lots!

    People who are as stupid as John Doe and Putin can look suicidal to people who can think better.

    Putin hasn't got all that far in his invasion of the Ukraine, though he has done a lot of damage there. The financial sanctions on Russia have wrecked it's economy, and it's not clear how long Putin can waste money on trying occupy more of the Ukraine.
    it's not as if occupying more of the Ukraine (or what left of it) is going to do a thing to restore the Russian economy.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 22 11:08:03 2022
    Bozo the bitch.


    Bozo Bill Sloman, the most frequent troll in this group, is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned with...

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo paraphrased)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bill Sloman)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Mar 22 13:59:06 2022
    On 17:26 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Mar 2022 16:53:16 GMT) it happened Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in <XnsAE53ABCB3BD8B37B93@144.76.35.252>:
    On 09:06 7 Mar 2022, Jan Panteltje said:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Mar 2022 03:00:10 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in
    <t03sfp$lis$1@dont-email.me>:


    I suppose at the time NATO was established nuclear weaponry was in
    its infancy. In any case, nowadays, all of the major powers can
    destroy the whole freaking Earth. That's the power Russia is
    relying on right now.

    Why do we (America) even need to be part of NATO in Europe? We
    have the ability to destroy the whole world. Nobody will attack
    our friends. If they did, we could lob a "small" nuke on them.
    That power is what Russia is threatening right now.

    None of the major powers, no country at all, will attack anything
    but to preserve its own existence.

    Seems the only reason for NATO is to establish a first strike
    capability against Russia, not to defend anything. That's why we
    are meddling in Ukraine.

    Around 1968 I applied for a job at NATO in the Netherlands Was
    already designing things for army and navy here back then. All went
    well until I got an interview with somebody who identified as some
    general, he looked at me and sad: "Mr Panteltje you know we do not
    want any commies here!" I replied "commies are also people"

    So empathy is not one of your strengths.

    That was the end of that. Went to work for the national TV network,
    more my thing anyways (some called them all leftists of course ;-).

    But it showed the 'mind-set' in NATO, completely nuts if you ask
    me. NATO has been, ever since, an attack force, for example
    participated in the attack on Iraq (filled with weapons of mass
    destruction according to Bush blah blah lies -> deep state). At the
    start of the Iraq war I was working at Tectronics, they were elated
    about all the extra sales the Iraq war promised. I gave my opinion
    and left (was offered a contract).

    You sound like Cordelia in Shakespeare's King Lear. She couldn't
    stop shooting her mouth off in the name of "honesty" and plain
    speaking. It ended up very, very badly.

    Is that a threat name shifter? As soon as your diapers are dry come
    back in the world of real people. Maybe old wimin cannot fight like a
    man
    :-)
    LOL

    Jan, in your comment who is it you think I am if I'm a "nym shifter"?
    You may have got me mistaken for someone else.

    I was saying your plain speaking manner may be less of a virtue than
    how you see it. Empathy and diplomacy have their merits and can avoid
    friction.

    I don't visit here often and only today saw your reply.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)