Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply troubles to come?
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chok es-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply troubles to come?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to be the
only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by volume, so you
have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the neon as
a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I imagine that
at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon they'd
need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than they actually
needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever since.
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chok es-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply troubles to come?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to be the only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by volume, so you have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the neon asPhilips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on a Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various editions of
a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I imagine that at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon they'd need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than they actually needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever since.
the Philips Technical Review explain it in great detail.
Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:extracting capacity than they actually needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever since.
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply troubles to come?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to be the only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by volume, so you have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the neon as a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I imagine that at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon they'd need, and installed more neon-
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje
wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for
chipmaking
s-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasio
n-choke
More chip supply troubles to come?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem to
be the only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by
volume, so you have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't
obvious - there are air liquification plants all over the wourld
supplying liquid nitrogen to everybody.
Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out the
neon as a separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding.
I imagine that at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting
how much neon they'd need, and installed more neon-extracting
capacity than they actually needed, and have been undercutting
everybody else ever since.
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:11:41 PM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham
wrote:
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje
wrote:
ingLow on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for
chipmak
hok
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-inv
asion-c
es-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply troubles to come?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon
Any air-liquification plant can supply it, and that does seem
to be the
only source. Our atmosphere contains 18.2 ppm of neon by
volume, so you
-have to process a lot of air to get much neon.
Quite why Russia and the Ukraine supply 90% of the market isn't
obvious
there are air liquification plants all over the wourld
supplying liquid
snitrogen to everybody.
Presumably you'd have to tack on a bit more gear to take out
the neon a
ata separate gas, but it wouldn't be difficult or demanding. I
imagine th
at some point the USSR made a hash of predicting how much neon
they'd
need, and installed more neon-extracting capacity than theyPhilips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on
actually needed, and have been undercutting everybody else ever
since.
a Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various
editions of the Philips Technical Review explain it in great
detail.
Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?
Probably not. Philips is pretty much localised around Eindhoven,
which down on the Belgian border, and Jan seems to live in the
Achterhoek, quite a bit further north close to Germany. They've
got their own technical university at at Twente. The distances
aren't all that large but it's in the Protestant north of the
country rather than the Catholic South. Philips did have a
semiconductor plant in Nijmegen (now NXP) but Nijmegen in still in
the Catholic south.
Probably not. Philips is pretty much localised around Eindhoven, which down >on the Belgian border, and Jan seems to live in the Achterhoek,
Philips used to make some very neat air-liquefying plant based on a >Stirling-cycle machine and a fractionating column. Various editions of
the Philips Technical Review explain it in great detail.
Jan, do you happen to know if they still make it?
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in news:1df2cd5e-a451-473f...@googlegroups.com:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 4:45:34 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
It is not like the rare earth issue China is going to present the planet with.
Actually, it is pretty much the same issue. Russia was selling
neon cheaply enough that it isn't worth anybody else's while to
set up the separators.
<snip>
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
...about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
too little.
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
...about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
too little.
It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What
IS hard, is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry.
So, while one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint'
elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for
making magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.
That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody
here "Carlos?" remarked a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody here "Carlos?" remarked
a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-cpu
US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with >it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...
BAD for business.
whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
...about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce >> too little.
It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What
IS hard, is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry.
So, while one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint' elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for making magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.
That could change. Thorium Molten Salt Reactors will soon come online.
From a recent post:
4. Nuclear Waste: Fission Products, Decay Products, Transuranics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neU0KGgQ0Z4
Among the fission products are xenon, neodymium, zirconium, and molebdenum. - xenon is used in satellite propulsion
- neodymium is used in electric cars and wind generators
- zirconium is strong, malleable, corrosion resistant, with many uses
- molebdenum is used in carbides and high-strength alloys and superalloys and is a trace element essential for life
Most of the fission products decay rapidly.
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <ak172hh7u3n7b74dd...@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with
it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...
BAD for business.
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in news:dee6c6b5- 130f-418c-a219...@googlegroups.com:
<snip>
Actually I took your post as one from John Dope, because what you said
does not make sene in the current circumstance.
Same thing with the claims you made about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
...about the rare earth metals.It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What IS hard,
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce too little.
is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry. So, while
one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint' elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for making
magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas towhat an atrocious thing to say.
Germany.
First of all, use of poison gas was outlawed by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol in 1925.
Second, you want to send poison gas to Germany to use on US Troops?
I'm sure most of your customers would be interested to hear you say that.
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
what an atrocious thing to say.
First of all, use of poison gas was outlawed by the Hague
Conventions of 1899 and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol in 1925.
Second, you want to send poison gas to Germany to use on US
Troops?
I'm sure most of your customers would be interested to hear you
say that.
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking >>>>
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-invasion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody here "Carlos?" remarked
a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-cpu
US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do business with >>it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...
BAD for business.
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in news:dee6c6b5- 130f-418c-a219-77133af49a69n@googlegroups.com:
<snip>
Actually I took your post as one from John Dope, because what you said
does not make sene in the current circumstance.
Same thing with the claims you made about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
too little. But that is not the case with Neon.
Like Platinum, mainly in South Africa, the few other places it is
mined have much lower yields and make it prohibitively expensive.
So even though it can be found even here in North America, there is
only one "Platinum mine" in the US.
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
...about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the world has
to little of it to make any extraction processes too costly and produce
too little.
It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread. What IS hard,
is separating them, which takes lots of chemical wizardry. So, while
one can get a supply of mischmetal (like for the 'flint' elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure neodymium supply for making
magnets is going to involve a shipment from China.
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:40:45 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <qkp72htb48qubdf74g998pj9evpobn65pv@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened >>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for >>>>>chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-inva
sion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody
here "Carlos?" remarked a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-c
pu
US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do
business with it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...
BAD for business.
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
But IBM did sell stuff to them to keep track of the Jews before
WW2. US and poison gas
1) they made covid
2) they made HIV
3) they nuked Japan
4) they poisoned Vietnam with agent orange
5) they used depleted ammo in Iraq
6) they polluted land allocated by themselves to the Native
American with endless nuke tests.
7) they poison their own people
with fracking
.. the list is endless.
On 05/03/2022 19:14, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:51:22 AM UTC-8,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
...about the rare earth metals.
Some of those are ONLY in China, and any other place in the
world has to little of it to make any extraction processes too
costly and produce too little.
It's not hard to find rare earth minerals, they're well spread.
What IS hard, is separating them, which takes lots of chemical
wizardry. So, while one can get a supply of mischmetal (like
for the 'flint' elements of disposable lighters) anywhere, a pure
neodymium supply for making magnets is going to involve a
shipment from China.
Yes. It's not that they are rare in the earth's surface rocks -
it is that they are rare within any given rock. There's no good
rich ores for them, they are just found as traces in many other
ores.
My sources say that even the rarest REE is widespread in crustal
rocks.
Which rare earth element is only found in China then?
Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!5U2ooNuM5UP0Ynf/GmOnCg.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for chipmaking
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 12:37:44 -0000 (UTC)
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References: <svutdi$kj3$1@dont-email.me> <ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com> <t005ji$rde$1@dont-email.me> <qkp72htb48qubdf74g998pj9evpobn65pv@4ax.com> <t01u5p$3cf$1@dont-email.me>
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Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:t01u5p$3cf$1@dont-email.me:
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:40:45 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<qkp72htb48qubdf74g998pj9evpobn65pv@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:11:23 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Mar 2022 07:50:11 -0800) it happened >>>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>>><ak172hh7u3n7b74dddbtdr4ifb1ck8pbv5@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:45:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Low on gas: Ukraine invasion chokes supply of neon needed for >>>>>>chipmaking
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/low-on-gas-ukraine-inva
sion-chokes-supply-of-neon-needed-for-chipmaking/
More chip supply trubles to come?
It will help some if we don't sell the Russians any chips.
That whole 'sanctions' thing that Trump started is, as somebody
here "Carlos?" remarked a silly things
If you sanction sellers you hit buyers too, and vice versa.
Russia will likely get chips from China if needed,
China has its own processors, was reading Lenovo has a laptop
with a Chinese processor, and a Chinese OS?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-notebook-packs-zhaoxin-c
pu
US is killing itself as it demonstrates it is a bad idea to do
business with it as it can change deals anytime it feels like it.
Block your money, confiscate your property...
Called stealing in the free world...
BAD for business.
It's a shame we lost so much revenue not selling poison gas to
Germany.
But IBM did sell stuff to them to keep track of the Jews before
Not computers, because there were none. A fucking tabulator is no
big deal, and IBM did nothing like that intentionally. Whereas Henry
Ford was an actual Nazi sympathizer.
WW2. US and poison gas
The Nazis developed Sarin Gas in WWII. Don't recall the US doing
anything of the sort.
On 22 APR 1915, the Germans were the first to use poison gasses.
1) they made covid
You are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
2) they made HIV
You are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
3) they nuked Japan
You are aware that Japan tortured and killed more than were killed
by those bombs, which had the imediated effect of ending the war. Essentially,you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
4) they poisoned Vietnam with agent orange
It was a defoliant which turned out to be harmful, but harmed as
many of us as it did them.
Esentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
5) they used depleted ammo in Iraq
Yes, because it is very heavy and makes very good ballistic
projectiles. They were used on enemies, and those enemies died form
the bullet penatration, not the DU.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
6) they polluted land allocated by themselves to the Native
American with endless nuke tests.
It was unknown at the time what the effects would be.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
7) they poison their own people
with fracking
Consiracy horseshit.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
.. the list is endless.
The list of the stupid shit you spew is endless, jackass.
Essentially, you are an idiot who should be hung for being stupid.
The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
The Nazis developed Sarin Gas in WWII. Don't recall the US doingThe US was manufacturing large quantities of mustard gases during WW2. Not quite the same as a nerve agent, but still very nasty. There was a very serious
anything of the sort.
Unfortunately, it is thought that the uranium oxide dust produced on impact5) they used depleted ammo in IraqYes, because it is very heavy and makes very good ballistic
projectiles. They were used on enemies, and those enemies died form
the bullet penatration, not the DU.
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