• Putin puts nuclear forces on high alert

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 09:21:40 2022
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dmitriy Pshonkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 09:40:28 2022
    Do not drive the Russians into a corner!
    In 2014, a civil war would have started in Russia if
    across Crimea and Sevastopol the boot of a NATO soldier walked.
    Now history has repeated itself.
    Listen and catch every word of Putin.
    He doesn't bluff.
    The Ukrainian attack on Donetsk and Luhansk was planned.
    Kyiv bombed them for 8 years.
    Current events suggest a match-fixing between Biden and Putin. The Ukrainian American project is closed and everything starts from scratch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Sun Feb 27 10:05:09 2022
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Dmitriy Pshonkin on Sun Feb 27 11:40:11 2022
    On 2/27/2022 10:40 AM, Dmitriy Pshonkin wrote:
    Do not drive the Russians into a corner!

    Says Russian Dmitriy Pshonkin? Russia has made it's own "corner"
    by insisting that what *it* wants is what the rest of the world
    should "accommodate".

    There was a man with a funny little mustache who made similar
    demands ~80 years ago. Things didn't turn out well for him.

    In 2014, a civil war would have started in Russia if across Crimea and Sevastopol the boot of a NATO soldier walked. Now history has repeated itself. Listen and catch every word of Putin. He doesn't bluff. The
    Ukrainian attack on Donetsk and Luhansk was planned

    Don't you mean, "The incursion into Ukraine, through Donetsk
    and Luhansk, was planned (to buy time to move troops to
    more forward positions before triggering any sort of retaliation)?

    Kyiv bombed them for 8 years.

    On damn near every map that I can find, this is Ukrainian
    territory. Doesn't the Ukrainian government have a right
    to expel "hostiles"?

    If the Chinese occupied Moscow, should Russian troops
    be allowed to bomb Moscow? St Pete?

    Current events suggest a match-fixing between Biden and Putin. The Ukrainian American project is closed and everything starts from scratch.

    I suspect the opposite is true. Russian has lost any hopes of
    "international prestige". Increasingly, Putin looks like someone
    who has "lost it".

    Perhaps history will remember him as the man who presided over
    the demise of *Russia*, now that the Soviet Union is gone...

    We may be seeing the start of Russia as a vassal of *China*
    (as China clearly has the upper hand in that relationship,
    at the moment). I wonder what they'll want as collateral
    for any loans they extend once Russia burns through its
    hard currency? Maybe the regions bordering Mongolia?
    For starters...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Feb 27 20:33:11 2022
    On 2/27/2022 20:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.




    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 11:42:29 2022
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure
    of control.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 19:47:15 2022
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.

    Putler's corticoid face suggests his time is limited.

    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Feb 27 21:00:43 2022
    On 2/27/2022 20:40, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 10:40 AM, Dmitriy Pshonkin wrote:
    ....

    Current events suggest a match-fixing between Biden and Putin. The
    Ukrainian
    American project is closed and everything starts from scratch.

    I suspect the opposite is true.  Russian has lost any hopes of "international prestige".  Increasingly, Putin looks like someone
    who has "lost it".


    He may have a point with that. We'll know soon.
    If Biden and Putin have prearranged it all and Zelenskiy is the figure
    in their way - the man did not flee, he is with his people in Kiev - on
    the meeting which is to take place at the Belorussian border now for
    which Biden promised protection (probably surveillance/warnings etc.)
    they will betray him and have him killed.
    To be seen... I sincerely hope this is not the case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Feb 27 20:51:47 2022
    On 2/27/2022 20:42, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure
    of control.

    It does, and the thing is most if not all of those looking for a career
    in and around offices of power are exactly the type of "others" you
    refer to.


    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 12:20:15 2022
    On 2/27/2022 11:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:42, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure
    of control.

    It does, and the thing is most if not all of those looking for a career
    in and around offices of power are exactly the type of "others" you
    refer to.

    But it's not limited to them. The people of Germany were complicit in
    Hitler's folly. As are the people of Russia in Putin's.

    Idiots allowed the orange skinned clown to come to power, here.
    But, later, corrected that mistake.

    Letting your society turn into an autocracy means you forfeit
    your ability to make those "fixes" (because, surely, an autocrat
    will quickly take steps to ensure his continued hold on that power!)

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Dmitriy Pshonkin on Sun Feb 27 11:17:15 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:40:37 AM UTC-8, Dmitriy Pshonkin wrote:
    Do not drive the Russians into a corner!

    Er... Russia is a large country, not a corner. If they export
    troops, warplanes, artillery... and death, those exports should
    be rejected. As to 'Russians', they needn't be driven, if they
    keep to their large country.

    Listen and catch every word of Putin.
    He doesn't bluff.

    Nor tell truth, nor limit his imperious influence to his
    home country. His words have less value than most, and
    his actions invite suppression; there's no value in accommodating
    a megalomaniac.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Feb 27 21:34:43 2022
    On 2/27/2022 21:20, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:42, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure
    of control.

    It does, and the thing is most if not all of those looking for a career
    in and around offices of power are exactly the type of "others" you
    refer to.

    But it's not limited to them.  The people of Germany were complicit in Hitler's folly.  As are the people of Russia in Putin's.

    Idiots allowed the orange skinned clown to come to power, here.
    But, later, corrected that mistake.

    Letting your society turn into an autocracy means you forfeit
    your ability to make those "fixes" (because, surely, an autocrat
    will quickly take steps to ensure his continued hold on that power!)


    True of course. But given that about 85% of the people think what
    they have been told by the media the day before it is quite easy
    to make them complicit to evil causes once you are in control.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 12:32:51 2022
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 20:33:11 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 2/27/2022 20:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.




    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    The US sensibly has term limits for President and most governers and
    mayors. We need term limits for all politicians.

    There was a recent study that shows that politicians get worse as they
    age and learn the power game. Makes sense.

    I'd guess that a randomly selected plumber would be a better than
    average senator or president.




    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 13:31:31 2022
    On 2/27/2022 12:34 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 21:20, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:42, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure >>>> of control.

    It does, and the thing is most if not all of those looking for a career
    in and around offices of power are exactly the type of "others" you
    refer to.

    But it's not limited to them. The people of Germany were complicit in
    Hitler's folly. As are the people of Russia in Putin's.

    Idiots allowed the orange skinned clown to come to power, here.
    But, later, corrected that mistake.

    Letting your society turn into an autocracy means you forfeit
    your ability to make those "fixes" (because, surely, an autocrat
    will quickly take steps to ensure his continued hold on that power!)

    True of course. But given that about 85% of the people think what
    they have been told by the media the day before it is quite easy
    to make them complicit to evil causes once you are in control.

    Yup. The point being to *think* about what information you are
    consuming. E.g., The "fake news" movement deliberately STOPPED
    thinking and became lemmings.

    (I.e., if you aren't looking at MANY "information sources",
    you're likely cherry picking the ones that tell you what you
    want to hear! Or, that you are willing to tolerate while
    being a lazy consumer)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 12:42:00 2022
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    I never claimed to be a Trump fan. He's a repulsive jerk, but as an
    amateur has a lot more common sense than the lifetime-power-monger alternatives.

    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but
    be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.

    It's dumb to elect politicians or brain surgeons based on whether you
    like them or not.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sun Feb 27 14:07:46 2022
    On 2022/02/27 9:21 a.m., Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    Of course Putin also realizes that if he tried to start a nuclear war
    that his generals, etc., would simply stop him. He would have an
    unexpected heart attack. Possibly from some sharp, handy object.

    It is simply another bluff.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 19:28:59 2022
    On 2/27/2022 12:00 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:40, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 10:40 AM, Dmitriy Pshonkin wrote:
    ....

    Current events suggest a match-fixing between Biden and Putin. The Ukrainian
    American project is closed and everything starts from scratch.

    I suspect the opposite is true. Russian has lost any hopes of
    "international prestige". Increasingly, Putin looks like someone
    who has "lost it".


    He may have a point with that. We'll know soon.
    If Biden and Putin have prearranged it all and Zelenskiy is the figure
    in their way - the man did not flee, he is with his people in Kiev - on
    the meeting which is to take place at the Belorussian border now for
    which Biden promised protection (probably surveillance/warnings etc.)
    they will betray him and have him killed.
    To be seen... I sincerely hope this is not the case.

    I suspect Putin will either use this to "get a trace on him"
    (easier to find someone when you KNOW where he is at a point in
    time), or...

    Invite him to carry a bit of Polonium back on (in) his person!

    In the 21st century, there is never a need for a face-to-face
    meeting. (unless you want to be absolutely sure no one knows
    what is said *in* it -- like the orange clown).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Feb 27 19:38:52 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:20:31 AM UTC+11, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:42, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 11:33 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    It takes the COMPLICITY (or complacency) OF OTHERS to gain any measure
    of control.

    It does, and the thing is most if not all of those looking for a career
    in and around offices of power are exactly the type of "others" you
    refer to.
    But it's not limited to them. The people of Germany were complicit in Hitler's folly.

    Some of them. The Nazi's weren't kind to those who didn't feel like going along.

    As are the people of Russia in Putin's.

    Not exactly. Putin isn't kind to anybody who looks as if they might win an election against a Putin candidate.

    Idiots allowed the orange skinned clown to come to power, here.
    But, later, corrected that mistake.

    Letting your society turn into an autocracy means you forfeit
    your ability to make those "fixes" (because, surely, an autocrat
    will quickly take steps to ensure his continued hold on that power!)

    Too true. Trump inspired the Capitol invasion, even if he was too inept to inspire one that could stop Biden being certified as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    So does the US.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Mon Feb 28 14:59:14 2022
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Feb 27 19:44:54 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:42:14 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de>
    wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    I never claimed to be a Trump fan. He's a repulsive jerk, but as an amateur has a lot more common sense than the lifetime-power-monger alternatives.

    So drink some bleach, and fill yourself up with chlorquinine.

    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.

    As opposed to Trump, who made any number of people bankrupt.

    It's dumb to elect politicians or brain surgeons based on whether you like them or not.

    Not that John Larkin knows enough to do it any other way.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Sun Feb 27 21:34:26 2022
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing >> anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons >> on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we >> know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world with him in WW3.

    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian society,
    having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and the
    world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on, the
    more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
    He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
    of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of the *light*!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out" where
    he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
    rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 20:41:18 2022
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,
    but they fear and respect authority too much; well, the fear is
    justified.

    So Russians tend to have a tight circle of friends and family that
    they think they can trust. Centuries of brutality does that.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Feb 27 22:12:40 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
    anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
    on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
    know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then either
    imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
    with him in WW3.
    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian society, having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and the
    world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on, the
    more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
    He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
    of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of the *light*!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out" where
    he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
    rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

    Of course Putin is going to win. No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could
    develop into WWIII if they did.

    So, even if it drags out a bit, it won't be long before Ukraine is in Russian control. You can expect the surrounding countries like Poland to beef up their militaries and expect support from other European countries, just as the various counties
    controlled by Russia will band together. Reminds me of something... I can't quite place my finger on it.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Sun Feb 27 22:04:44 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Sun Feb 27 22:38:34 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >> the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.

    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

    Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to gnuarm.del...@gmail.com on Sun Feb 27 22:35:12 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
    anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
    on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
    know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then either
    imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
    with him in WW3.
    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian society, having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and the
    world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on, the
    more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog. He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
    of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of the *light*!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out" where
    he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
    rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

    Of course Putin is going to win.

    He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

    No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could develop into WWIII if they did.

    The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before the Russian invasion. We've not heard anything to suggest that they worked, but we haven't seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn't make
    for dramatic pictures.

    So, even if it drags out a bit, it won't be long before Ukraine is in Russian control.

    Perhaps. Some of it already was.

    You can expect the surrounding countries like Poland to beef up their militaries and expect support from other European countries, just as the various counties controlled by Russia will band together. Reminds me of something... I can't quite place my
    finger on it.

    Sudetenland, 1938. Hitler got the area without firing a shot, so it isn't exactly comparable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Feb 28 17:21:56 2022
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.


    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Mon Feb 28 19:01:06 2022
    On 28-Feb-22 5:38 pm, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.

    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

    Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.


    True, though if they studied their history, they'd know that it often
    turns out badly for them.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 28 08:54:19 2022
    Am 28.02.22 um 07:12 schrieb Rick C:

    Of course Putin is going to win. No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could
    develop into WWIII if they did.

    With that new abundance of Stingers, there is no chance left.
    It was good enough for the Mujahedin, it will be enough for the
    Ukrainians. This was planned as a 2 day action to go to Kiew
    and take out the existing government. That did not happen.

    Putin's Oligarch friends have lost any chance to get even
    richer. Have you seen the happy faces of his 'successful'
    generals? How he mistreated his own secret service boss
    live on TV? The endless rows at the money machines?

    Putler will end up in an asylum where the inmates don't
    have control.

    All he's managed to do is that Germany allotted +€ 100B for the
    army this year, plus > 2% Nato as expected, 500 Millions for
    Ukrainian WEAPONS (no, we would never export weapons to problem
    zones) + Stingers & bazookas from army stock, Swedes & Fins will
    flock to NATO, they are scared; the Fins seem to have bought
    F35s; even Orban and the Poles cannot get enough sanctions
    (they are normally at the receiving end for not complying to
    minimum democratic rules).

    After 3 days, Europe looks completely different. The new green
    German government (just 100 days) was against coal, oil, gas;
    now they enforce inventory. North Stream II is dead;
    LNG terminals are built at Wilhelmshafen and elsewere.

    And the other states are alike. Looks like a great success
    for Putin. Not. Russian GNP is like that of Italy, they
    take twice the # of people to do it. That's not the base for
    a super power.
    Reagan demonstrated exactly that with silly things like ICBM
    dense packs. Just spend the money, in 5 years they are bankrupt
    trying to keep up. Happened before.
    Oligarchs don't like that.

    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Feb 28 10:27:04 2022
    On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

    It's worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
    ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
    too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Mon Feb 28 10:31:47 2022
    On 28/02/2022 07:38, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.

    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

    I doubt if NATO would do that no matter how much Russia collapses.
    There might be UN-led peace-keepers, but not NATO-led forces. The
    difference is very significant.


    Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.


    So do some democratic regimes, though they like to make it very clear
    that they didn't actually /start/ the war in question.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Mon Feb 28 10:23:19 2022
    On 28/02/2022 07:35, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance.
    The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of
    hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert. Even a fraction
    of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
    know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed,
    and then either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants
    to take the rest of the world with him in WW3.
    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian
    society, having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and
    the world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on,
    the more likely The Adults will displace him in the international
    dialog. He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps
    him out of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of
    the *light*!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out"
    where he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too
    high for the rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the
    situation.

    Of course Putin is going to win.

    He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look
    successful enough to stay in power.

    I think that is a key point.

    Economic sanctions from the West don't hit as hard and fast as bombs and
    tanks. But they /do/ hit, if the West keeps them up. We are already
    seeing big drops in the Russian stock market, devaluation of their
    currency, people rushing to take out their cash in fear of a banking
    collapse. Foreign investment is pulling out, and the Russian elite are
    having their foreign assets frozen. (And there are few things the
    Russian elite dislike more than having to live in Russia.) The
    Ukrainians don't have to keep the Russians out of their country - they
    need to kill enough Russian soldiers that Putin's controlled media can't
    cover it up any more.

    Eventually there will come a point where the Russian people will
    complain too loudly, and the Russian elites will have suffered enough -
    Putin will be kicked out. For now, he has enough security forces in
    cities to intimidate, arrest and/or beat up protestors, but that will
    not last forever.

    If Putin wants to stay in power, he needs to find an exit to all this
    without losing too much face - and he doesn't have long to do so.


    No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight
    on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and
    supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This
    literally could develop into WWIII if they did.


    Certainly no NATO troops will invade Russia or attack anything inside
    Russia's borders. And that probably extends to Belarus as well. It is
    very unlikely that NATO troops will be sent directly to Ukraine either.
    NATO is not threatening Russia with military action, and that is a line
    they will not cross (no matter how much Putin claims they are
    threatening him).

    The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before
    the Russian invasion. We've not heard anything to suggest that they
    worked, but we haven't seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling
    through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn't make for dramatic
    pictures.

    I don't know about /you/, but /I/ have certainly seen pictures and
    reports of effective defence. Just this morning I saw footage from
    Ukrainian drones, supplied by Turkey, taking out Russian convoys and
    anti-air batteries. Obviously the Russians have a far bigger force with
    a lot of equipment and training (though apparently problems with some
    supplies, including fuel), but the Ukrainians are holding well so far.

    Large quantities of weapons are being supplied to Ukraine from Europe
    and other western countries. The EU is buying them fighter planes.
    Country after country is breaking their long-standing tradition of not supplying arms to conflict areas, and giving away military equipment.


    So, even if it drags out a bit, it won't be long before Ukraine is
    in Russian control.

    Perhaps. Some of it already was.

    There were parts of the east of Ukraine that were under separatist
    control, which is not quite the same thing as being under Russian
    control despite their support. The separatists want to be Ukrainian
    with close ties to Russia, they don't want to be Russian.

    (Of course the Crimea was under Russian control.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Mon Feb 28 07:58:44 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 1:35:22 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
    anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
    on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
    know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then either
    imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
    with him in WW3.
    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian society, having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and the
    world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on, the
    more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog. He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
    of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of the *light*!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out" where
    he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

    Of course Putin is going to win.
    He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

    Putin's power in Russia does not depend on taking the Ukraine. It would diminish the perception of him being all powerful and a wise leader, but I'm sure it would not be enough to depose him. Then there is the fact that it is unlikely Russia won't take
    the Ukraine, it's just a matter of how quickly and easily it will happen. That's the real damage to Putin, the appearance of being a butcher if there is enough exposure to scenes of Ukrainian citizens fighting the Russian military.


    No one else is going to actually involve their own troops to fight on behalf of the Ukranians. Various countries will send arms and supplies and take various political actions, but nothing more. This literally could develop into WWIII if they did.
    The west sent quite a lot of anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine before the Russian invasion. We've not heard anything to suggest that they worked, but we haven't seen any pictures of Russian tanks rolling through Kiev either. Effective defense doesn't
    make for dramatic pictures.

    Last night I read a column of tanks sent to find Ukrainian leaders was wiped out along with the general leading them. Seems missiles were used.


    So, even if it drags out a bit, it won't be long before Ukraine is in Russian control.
    Perhaps. Some of it already was.
    You can expect the surrounding countries like Poland to beef up their militaries and expect support from other European countries, just as the various counties controlled by Russia will band together. Reminds me of something... I can't quite place my
    finger on it.
    Sudetenland, 1938. Hitler got the area without firing a shot, so it isn't exactly comparable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

    It was a joke. The comparison is obvious and does not require pointing out.

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Mon Feb 28 08:25:46 2022
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

    It's worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
    ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
    too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

    Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
    in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
    tribes killed them and ate them.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Feb 28 18:30:30 2022
    On 28/02/2022 17:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 28/02/2022 05:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

    It's worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
    ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
    too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

    Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
    in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
    tribes killed them and ate them.


    It's fair to say there is a bit of variation, and not all cultures hold
    to the same set of morals. But on the whole, most people just want to
    get on with their own lives and are happy to let others get on with
    theirs. It's leaders that start wars, not ordinary people.

    In particular, you'll find that most Russians abroad - at least those
    that have been away from Russia long enough to be out of the main sphere
    of Putin's propaganda - are against the invasion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Feb 28 09:56:01 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 11:26:00 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 28/02/2022 05:41, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

    It's worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
    ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
    too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).
    Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
    in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american
    tribes killed them and ate them.

    Maybe that's what's motivating Putin. He wants to eat the rich!

    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 28 09:53:41 2022
    mandag den 28. februar 2022 kl. 18.30.43 UTC+1 skrev David Brown:
    On 28/02/2022 17:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:27:04 +0100, David Brown
    <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 28/02/2022 05:41, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >>> wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then >>>> either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    I spent some time in the USSR. The Russians are basically nice people,

    It's worth remembering that in all this - ordinary Russians, like
    ordinary people everywhere, are basically nice people. They are victims
    too (though obviously less so than the ordinary people of Ukraine).

    Some cultures are Not Nice. Some native north american tribes engaged
    in constant warfare and killed strangers on sight. Some south american tribes killed them and ate them.

    It's fair to say there is a bit of variation, and not all cultures hold
    to the same set of morals. But on the whole, most people just want to
    get on with their own lives and are happy to let others get on with
    theirs. It's leaders that start wars, not ordinary people.

    In particular, you'll find that most Russians abroad - at least those
    that have been away from Russia long enough to be out of the main sphere
    of Putin's propaganda - are against the invasion.

    https://youtu.be/4oULSBdQb-U

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to David Brown on Mon Feb 28 15:16:05 2022
    On 2/28/2022 4:31 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 28/02/2022 07:38, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>> On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then >>>>> either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>>>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's hard to say.

    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

    I doubt if NATO would do that no matter how much Russia collapses.
    There might be UN-led peace-keepers, but not NATO-led forces. The
    difference is very significant.


    Autocratic regimes do start wars to distract their populations from internal problems.


    So do some democratic regimes, though they like to make it very clear
    that they didn't actually /start/ the war in question.

    Only thing worse than a Ukraine that falls quickly is a Ukraine that
    doesn't fall quickly, Putin still has saturation bombing of urban areas
    and use of chemical weapons/nerve gas in the escalation chain.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Mon Feb 28 15:28:06 2022
    On 2/28/2022 1:21 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The
    last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair
    trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western
    civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>> the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's
    hard to say.


    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    Sylvia.

    Mutually assured destruction "worked" for 70 years, but a madman
    convinced that he can do whatever he wants and take whatever territory
    he wants by other means because his nuclear arms are a shield for him to operate with impunity under, is uncharted territory

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Feb 28 15:46:02 2022
    On 2/28/2022 10:58 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 1:35:22 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:12:48 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 8:59 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing
    anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons
    on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we
    know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then either
    imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of the world
    with him in WW3.
    I suspect he knows all to well how folks "disappear" in Russian society, >>>> having played that card, before.

    He likely hopes/hoped this would be an "overnight success" and the
    world would have to "live with it". The longer it drags on, the
    more likely The Adults will displace him in the international dialog.
    He'll be cited as suffering from some illness that keeps him out
    of the limelight -- until people realize he's also out of the *light*! >>>>
    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he's left himself an "out" where
    he doesn't look like The Loser. And, the stakes are too high for the
    rest of the world to let him win just to diffuse the situation.

    Of course Putin is going to win.
    He may not win fast enough - or capture enough territory - to look successful enough to stay in power.

    Putin's power in Russia does not depend on taking the Ukraine. It would diminish the perception of him being all powerful and a wise leader, but I'm sure it would not be enough to depose him. Then there is the fact that it is unlikely Russia won't
    take the Ukraine, it's just a matter of how quickly and easily it will happen. That's the real damage to Putin, the appearance of being a butcher if there is enough exposure to scenes of Ukrainian citizens fighting the Russian military.
    I think Putin would far prefer to be thought a butcher than to not be
    able to declare at least some type of victory in the Ukraine. No one who matters figured he was anything but to begin with.

    So if that means pounding Kyiv/Kiev to rubble just so someone can at
    least raise the Russian flag over it and declare "mission accomplished"
    for at least a lil while then that's what he do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Feb 28 15:55:57 2022
    On 2/27/2022 3:32 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 20:33:11 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 2/27/2022 20:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.




    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    The US sensibly has term limits for President and most governers and
    mayors. We need term limits for all politicians.

    There was a recent study that shows that politicians get worse as they
    age and learn the power game. Makes sense.

    "Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill" - ancient
    Greek(?) proverb

    I'd guess that a randomly selected plumber would be a better than
    average senator or president.

    "He knows not how to rule a kingdom, that cannot manage a province; nor
    can he wield a province, that cannot order a city; nor he order a city,
    that knows not how to regulate a village; nor he a village, that cannot
    guide a family, nor can that man govern well a family that knows not how
    to govern himself..."

    Hugo Grotius

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Feb 28 15:36:50 2022
    On 2/28/2022 3:28 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/28/2022 1:21 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 5:04 pm, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:59:27 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The
    last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair
    trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western
    civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the
    rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sorry, exactly which delusional maniac are you referring to?

    With the language people use to discuss politics in this group, it's
    hard to say.


    Putin.

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    Sylvia.

    Mutually assured destruction "worked" for 70 years, but a madman
    convinced that he can do whatever he wants and take whatever territory
    he wants by other means because his nuclear arms are a shield for him to operate with impunity under, is uncharted territory

    That is to say it's purported that it was the position of Kennedy's
    generals during the Cuban Missile Crisis that the best resolution was an immediate invasion and occupation of Cuba, as they were convinced that
    the Cubans/Soviets would never actually fire their missiles in response.

    Kennedy was unconvinced

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Mon Feb 28 21:07:29 2022
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade
    Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping
    forces.

    Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don't generally practice
    conscription, and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the peace-keeping, in any case. So, it'd be a basically a military coup internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

    Doesn't matter. Looks like Putin has screwed himself and the Russian
    economy. You can't believe everything you find on the web, but there is a
    clear trend.

    Sorry for the wrap.

    EU, UK, Canada, US pledge to remove selected Russian banks from SWIFT https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/eu-uk-canada-us-pledge-to-remove-selected- russian-banks-from-swift.html

    Biden administration expands Russia sanctions, cuts off U.S. transactions
    with central bank https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/biden-administration-expands-russia- sanctions-cuts-off-us-transactions-with-central-bank.html

    Russia?s economy in crisis as sanctions bite | Business | Economy and
    finance news from a German perspective | DW | 28.02.2022 https://www.dw.com/en/russias-economy-in-crisis-as-sanctions-bite/a-
    60943968

    Russian soldiers 'dropping their weapons and don't want to fight' | World | News | Express.co.uk https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1571590/Russian-soldiers-Ukraine- invasion-latest-Vladimir-Putin-latest-Kiev-fighting-vn

    Vladimir Putin humiliated as troops down weapons in massive collapse of
    Russian morale | World | News | Express.co.uk https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1572769/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war- russian-soldiers-down-weapons-kharkiv

    The damage is done: Russians face economic point of no return | Russia |
    The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians- face-economic-point-of-no-return

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Mon Feb 28 12:49:12 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping forces.

    Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don't generally practice conscription,
    and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the
    peace-keeping, in any case. So, it'd be a basically a military coup
    internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Mon Feb 28 16:34:27 2022
    On 2/28/2022 4:07 PM, Mike Monett wrote:
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade
    Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping
    forces.

    Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don't generally practice
    conscription, and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the
    peace-keeping, in any case. So, it'd be a basically a military coup
    internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

    Doesn't matter. Looks like Putin has screwed himself and the Russian
    economy. You can't believe everything you find on the web, but there is a clear trend.

    What happens if Jerry gets mad

    <https://youtu.be/2GLDqvA6tKI?t=146>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Robert Latest on Mon Feb 28 14:50:44 2022
    On 2/28/2022 2:33 PM, Robert Latest wrote:
    Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing >> anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on
    "high" alert.

    Aren't the nuclear arsenals permanently on high alert? They couldn't serve their purpose otherwise.

    That depends on what "high alert" means (to the Russians).

    E.g., in the US, the various DEFCON levels have specific meanings in terms of the resources brought to bear against the "perceived threat" as well as the level of readiness of men and material.

    E.g., DEFCON 5 is the "normal" level of readiness -- no EXTRAORDINARY threat perceived.

    At DEFCON 4, there is a heightened intelligence watch and enhanced security measures put into place.

    At DEFCON 3, the USAF must be ready to mobilize with *15* minutes noitice.

    At DEFCON 2, the armed forces must be prepared to *deploy* within 6 hours!

    At DEFCON 1, you start looking for a desk to hide under...

    Note that these conditions can be selectively applied to portions of
    the world theater. E.g., Putin is likely ("allegedly") less concerned
    about threats from Finland or North Korea than from NATO forces.

    Each level-transition results in changes in comms traffic as well
    as troop/equipment changes.

    [No idea if these are the current "definitions" but that's what I recall
    from my tour of the Cheyenne Mountain Complex ~40 years ago]

    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we >> know it for a long time to come.

    What about eastern civilization?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 28 16:59:38 2022
    On 2/27/2022 1:33 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 2/27/2022 20:05, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last
    thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger
    nuclear weapons  on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western
    civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.




    It is. But in social sense there are better, human made, tools
    for that purpose. Like having up to two mandates etc. Psychopaths
    still make it regularly to positions in power but it takes time
    until they become confident enough and/or to gain complete
    control.

    Russia is a country with medieval social structure, no wonder they
    constantly end up with some outright psychopath in charge.
    And they have nuclear capability, on top of that medieval social
    structure...

    This is the first major war between civilized countries in my lifetime.

    USA vs. Iraq doesn't count, the USA isn't a civilized country.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 28 14:07:24 2022
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?

    Dictator for life. If the referendum doesn't pass, do you suppose
    he'll leave peacefully?

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Latest@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Mon Feb 28 21:33:51 2022
    Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.

    Aren't the nuclear arsenals permanently on high alert? They couldn't serve their purpose otherwise.

    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    What about eastern civilization?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Feb 28 14:39:54 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:07:40 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then >either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case.

    Yeah, next he'll propose using bleach to stop the Coronavirus.

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John S@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Mon Feb 28 18:21:33 2022
    On 2/27/2022 11:21 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.


    Too bad we left our donation to Belarus back there in Afghanistan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Mon Feb 28 18:56:48 2022
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:07:24 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then >>either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >>the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?

    https://news.yahoo.com/photos-putin-keeps-his-distance-during-meetings-194633383.html



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Mar 1 03:09:54 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:07:24 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    [...]

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?

    https://news.yahoo.com/photos-putin-keeps-his-distance-during-meetings-19 4633383.html

    Not a whisper of the sanctions against Putin and Russia. These will wreck the Russian economy. Putin wisely keeps his distance.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Tue Mar 1 11:53:56 2022
    On 28/02/2022 22:07, Mike Monett wrote:
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 10:38:44 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 5:22:08 PM UTC+11, Sylvia Else wrote:

    There was never the remotest possibility that NATO would invade
    Russia.

    But if Russia fell apart again they might well send in peace-keeping
    forces.

    Yeah, maybe, but... NATO countries don't generally practice
    conscription, and Russia does. Russian military would be part of the
    peace-keeping, in any case. So, it'd be a basically a military coup
    internal to Russia, regardless of NATO presence.

    Doesn't matter. Looks like Putin has screwed himself and the Russian
    economy. You can't believe everything you find on the web, but there is a clear trend.

    Sorry for the wrap.

    Put < > brackets around the URL's - then they still work regardless of wrapping. For example, <https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/eu-uk-canada-us-pledge-to-remove-selected-russian-banks-from-swift.html>



    EU, UK, Canada, US pledge to remove selected Russian banks from SWIFT https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/eu-uk-canada-us-pledge-to-remove-selected- russian-banks-from-swift.html

    Biden administration expands Russia sanctions, cuts off U.S. transactions with central bank https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/biden-administration-expands-russia- sanctions-cuts-off-us-transactions-with-central-bank.html

    Russia?s economy in crisis as sanctions bite | Business | Economy and
    finance news from a German perspective | DW | 28.02.2022 https://www.dw.com/en/russias-economy-in-crisis-as-sanctions-bite/a-
    60943968

    Russian soldiers 'dropping their weapons and don't want to fight' | World | News | Express.co.uk https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1571590/Russian-soldiers-Ukraine- invasion-latest-Vladimir-Putin-latest-Kiev-fighting-vn

    Vladimir Putin humiliated as troops down weapons in massive collapse of Russian morale | World | News | Express.co.uk https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1572769/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war- russian-soldiers-down-weapons-kharkiv

    The damage is done: Russians face economic point of no return | Russia |
    The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians- face-economic-point-of-no-return



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 1 13:47:32 2022
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to legg on Tue Mar 1 12:07:17 2022
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Tue Mar 1 13:09:48 2022
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This
    is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Mar 1 22:34:24 2022
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?


    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Mar 1 23:15:28 2022
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?

    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.


    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully.
    This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.


    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Tue Mar 1 16:06:22 2022
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This
    is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member
    of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    This is why we honor our military, to create the mode of thought that it is important to do whatever is asked of you, to prevent thinking of whether the action is reasonable or not. Even that was not enough in Tienanmen Square, so the government had to
    bring in troops from other regions that spoke different dialects and did not sympathize with the civilians.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to gnuarm.del...@gmail.com on Tue Mar 1 19:32:06 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 11:06:30 AM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?

    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully.
    This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine.

    They do seem to be willing to wreck Russia's economy with the aim of discouraging him. Any of Putin's person al wealth that he has sent out of Russia is gong to be expropriated as fast as it is tracked down, and his oligarchs are facing the same
    treatment. It's going to have been a expensive exercise fro them.

    That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever
    becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    Encouraging and arming separatist insurrections in neighbouring states isn't a great way of getting the states around Russia to support Russia.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    And because Russia is run by people too dim to realise that waging war on their neighbours isn't a profitable exercise.

    This is why we honor our military, to create the mode of thought that it is important to do whatever is asked of you, to prevent thinking of whether the action is reasonable or not.

    The Nuremberg war crimes trials put paid to that. The more recent war crimes trial of the leaders of former Yugoslavia have reinforced the message.

    Putin has probably already done enough to put him in line for similar treatment, in due course.

    Even that was not enough in Tienanmen Square, so the government had to bring in troops from other regions that spoke different dialects and did not sympathize with the civilians.

    And didn't know much about war crimes trials.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Wed Mar 2 08:36:15 2022
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
    personnel leave. Traffic.

    ~Whatever was observed the last time an 'alert level'
    was raised.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to bill.sloman@ieee.org on Wed Mar 2 08:44:45 2022
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:32:06 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    <snip>

    Encouraging and arming separatist insurrections in neighbouring states isn't a great way of getting the states around Russia to support Russia.

    Actually, replacing the government is a common method of 'gaining
    support' in both hemispheres.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    And because Russia is run by people too dim to realise that waging war on their neighbours isn't a profitable exercise.

    Problem is, war is profitable to those in power, and their
    friends.

    However, you don't nuke territory that you intend to
    occupy. Russia has experience in repopulating areas of
    strategic interest, without resorting to outright vandalism.
    Kaliningrad, Sevastopol, the Ukraine . . .

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Rick C on Wed Mar 2 15:45:07 2022
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully. This
    is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to legg on Wed Mar 2 06:30:50 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?
    A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
    personnel leave. Traffic.

    ~Whatever was observed the last time an 'alert level'
    was raised.

    Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed?

    --

    Rick C.

    -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Mar 2 06:34:38 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member
    of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

    Hitler's invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn't - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    It hasn't got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn't help. If the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn't such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and quite possibly prosecuted for corruption, which could improve things
    quite a bit.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to legg on Wed Mar 2 06:22:02 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:44:28 AM UTC+11, legg wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:32:06 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:

    <snip>

    Encouraging and arming separatist insurrections in neighbouring states isn't a great way of getting the states around Russia to support Russia.

    Actually, replacing the government is a common method of 'gaining support' in both hemispheres.

    It does make the governments of adjacent states decidedly nervous.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    And because Russia is run by people too dim to realise that waging war on their neighbours isn't a profitable exercise.

    Problem is, war is profitable to those in power, and their friends.

    Sometimes, in the short term. Putin and the oligarchs are seeing their overseas holdings expropriated, so it isn't going to be all that profitable for them.

    However, you don't nuke territory that you intend to occupy. Russia has experience in repopulating areas of strategic interest, without resorting to outright vandalism. Kaliningrad, Sevastopol, the Ukraine . . .

    It doesn't seem to be working too well in the Ukraine. There's quite a bit of relatively indiscriminate bombardment going on, and it's going to take quite a lot of tedious reconstruction to undo what's already been destroyed. Russia isn't famous for the
    quality of it's infrastructure, but it does take a while to get seriously fought-over territory back to it's previous productivity. The Russians may have hoped to get hold of the Ukraine without a particularly destructive campaign, but this may have
    been optimistic.

    Kalingrad (formerly Königsberg) had it's German population deported to Germany from 1946 to 1949, and it took rather longer to get it rebuilt. It did take quite a lot of damage during WW2.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Mar 2 06:42:56 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully.
    This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member
    of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off
    limits for obvious reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.

    As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia's attack is reasonable, but because we don't want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

    --

    Rick C.

    -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 2 11:35:11 2022
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started >>>> drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to >>>> kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully.
    This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off
    limits for obvious reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and continuously talking about unification, since they were made two separate countries after the falls of USSR
    If Putins goal was to make every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have succeeded

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 2 11:52:25 2022
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 14.45.18 UTC+1 skrev Dimiter Popoff:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians have started
    drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier to
    detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone manages to
    kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just *cannot* let
    Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other countries should send in troops or even think about an attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well. However, that is the case even if they simply let the Russians in peacefully.
    This is not new. We know how things go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear war - is
    now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member
    of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.


    afaiu, Ukraine not meeting the requirements for membership and with unresolved territorial disputes they weren't close to joining anyway


    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...
    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    If Putin wants to roleplay as Hitler can we just skip to the part where he shots
    himself in the bunker?

    if Lukasjenko wants to join the play as Mussolini, well ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Wed Mar 2 22:00:01 2022
    On 02/03/2022 20:35, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
    every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
    the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    Georgia has now started an application to join the EU...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Wed Mar 2 23:33:44 2022
    On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a member
    of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

    Hitler's invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn't - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.

    Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
    waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
    London and the US waited until later.

    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    It hasn't got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn't help. If
    the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn't>
    such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.

    Hah, I thought I'd just say this is laughable but then I realized
    you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
    I have.
    There is zero chance of someone in the Russian "political" life
    to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
    around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
    count of regional governors who died in a "helicopter accident"
    after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).
    There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
    are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
    boss in the Kremlin.
    The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die
    by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to gnuarm.del...@gmail.com on Wed Mar 2 13:41:10 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

    As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia's attack is reasonable, but because we don't want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

    The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
    its successor state might do so now.

    Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
    the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 3 00:29:26 2022
    On 3/2/2022 23:41, whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

    As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia's attack is reasonable, but because we don't want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.

    The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
    its successor state might do so now.

    Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
    the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

    Don't count on the oligarchs to be able to do anything about it.
    They all have become what they are because the KGB put them in these
    positions, what they have at their disposal is all to be surrendered
    on request. Or else. We have seen some of them killed already.
    Some of them would probably be glad to shoot Putin but he knows that
    so they won't be given a chance.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Wed Mar 2 18:46:59 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 06:30:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?
    A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
    personnel leave. Traffic.

    ~Whatever was observed the last time an 'alert level'
    was raised.

    Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed?

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-put-russias-nuclear-forces-on-alert-what-does-that-mean-for-the-risk-of-nuclear-war

    How has the United States responded to Putin so far?

    There is no evidence that the Biden administration has reciprocated in
    any sense to Putins announcement that he was ordering his nuclear
    forces in a special regime of combat duty perhaps in part because
    it was unclear what that means in practical terms.

    Nor was there word from Washington of evidence that Putin had taken
    worrying steps such as loading nuclear weapons on all or a portion of
    Russias nuclear-capable air fleet or sending additional ballistic
    missile submarines to sea.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html

    Mr. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said the
    threats could be empty unless matched with evidence that nuclear
    weapons are being removed from storage and prepared for action.

    Unless we see that kind of thing, Mr. Kristensen said, its
    rhetoric its madman brinkmanship.



    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-puts-nuclear-forces-high-alert-escalating-worries-83152160

    For many, Russia's announcement of a nuclear high alert stirred fears
    that the West could be drawn into direct conflict with Russia. But a
    senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
    the United States had yet to see any appreciable change in Russias
    nuclear posture.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Wed Mar 2 19:21:37 2022
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
    much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
    to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
    manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
    countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
    But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
    go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
    war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
    is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the
    truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
    they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
    Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
    involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
    video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
    map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
    which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
    reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
    every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
    the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
    NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
    join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Wed Mar 2 16:33:54 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
    much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
    to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
    manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
    countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
    But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
    go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
    war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
    is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the
    truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
    they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
    Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
    involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
    video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
    map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
    which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
    reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
    continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
    every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
    the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
    NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
    join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".

    Phil Hobbs

    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    I bet a lot of russians want to be more european.

    We don't need buffer states.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Mar 2 19:42:06 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
    much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
    to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
    manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
    countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
    But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
    go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
    war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
    is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the
    truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
    they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
    Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
    involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
    video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
    map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
    which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
    reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
    continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
    every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
    the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
    NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to
    join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It's just beyond stupid to
    back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs



    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Wed Mar 2 17:43:36 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
    much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier
    to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
    manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
    countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it.
    But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things
    go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
    war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one
    is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the
    truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
    they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support
    Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
    involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
    video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a
    map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
    which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious
    reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
    continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make
    every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make
    the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
    NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to >>> join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It's just beyond stupid to
    back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Mar 2 20:47:15 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as
    much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier >>>>>>>>>>> to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone
    manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war?
    I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other
    countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. >>>>>>>>>> But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things >>>>>>>>>> go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear
    war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one >>>>>>>> is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the >>>>>>>> truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why
    they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support >>>>>>>> Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be
    involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a
    video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a >>>>>> map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania
    which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious >>>>>> reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and
    continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make >>>>> every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make >>>>> the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have
    succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend
    NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to >>>> join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It's just beyond stupid to
    back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....


    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.


    Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea. It's a pretty close
    parallel, I think.

    I make no apologies for Putin, who was and is a murderous thug.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Mar 2 17:53:49 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 8:33:57 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

    Hitler's invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn't - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.
    Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
    waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
    London and the US waited until later.
    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    It hasn't got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn't help. If
    the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn't>
    such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.
    Hah, I thought I'd just say this is laughable but then I realized
    you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
    I have.

    The Russian example would be the coup that got rid of Gorbachov.

    There is zero chance of someone in the Russian "political" life
    to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
    around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
    count of regional governors who died in a "helicopter accident"
    after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).

    I'm sure that they all think of "crossing" Putin more or less non-stop, but are very careful not to admit it.
    Once Putin's position has been weakened by him starting an unsuccessful war, a palace coup becomes much more likely.

    There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
    are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
    boss in the Kremlin.

    The oligarchs aren't clerks, and they have all sustained large personal losses as a consequence of the invasion of the Ukraine.

    The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

    In a fully fledged dictatorship this would be true. Russia still retains the structure of an elected government, and within that a place coup can be a lot less deadly.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Wed Mar 2 18:00:30 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    What, as opposed to them drunk of Vodka and dancing the barynya?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Mar 2 18:02:08 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 4:33:57 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 16:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:45:18 AM UTC+11, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>> On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote: >>>>>> On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be involved and it will NOT become WWIII.

    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland, then...

    Hitler's invasion of Poland is what started WW2. Nobody was in a position to stop him - Stalin certainly wasn't - and Hitler did buy off Stalin with a fair chunk of Poland.
    Yes, and the world kept on watching, *this* is my point. The French
    waited until he came for them, the Brits waited until he bombed
    London and the US waited until later.

    I think you need to go back to your history lesson. The Brits were in the war long before Germany attacked England. Remember Dunkirk? That was the Brits getting thrown out of the mainland and signaled the beginning of the Battle of Brittan.


    It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.

    It hasn't got a lot on common. Shooting Putin wouldn't help. If
    the bulk of the Russian government decide that the invasion wasn't>
    such a good idea, Putin may end up being deposed, and> quite possibly prosecuted for corruption, which could> improve things quite a bit.
    Hah, I thought I'd just say this is laughable but then I realized
    you have never lived in a country with a regime like this - which
    I have.
    There is zero chance of someone in the Russian "political" life
    to even think of crossing Putin. They are all creeping like worms
    around him. Those who did otherwise are long gone, e.g. I lost the
    count of regional governors who died in a "helicopter accident"
    after they got >5 or so (the last one was Lebed IIRC).
    There is no such thing as a government as you think of it, those
    are just clerks trying to guess what to do in order to please the
    boss in the Kremlin.
    The only way to oust him is by killing him or waiting him to die
    by natural causes, **no** other option is on the table.

    Yeah, that's why he's still there. But there is always a possibility of him screwing up so badly that they gang up on him. I don't think it will take 50 knives. Just 50 very powerful people who can take control of the government.

    --

    Rick C.

    +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Mar 2 18:02:58 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:45:03 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:42:14 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    I never claimed to be a Trump fan. He's a repulsive jerk, but as an amateur has a lot more common sense than the lifetime-power-monger alternatives.
    So drink some bleach, and fill yourself up with chlorquinine.
    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.
    As opposed to Trump, who made any number of people bankrupt.

    Translation: Trump, who made any number of people multimillionaires.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 2 18:17:35 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 4:41:18 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:43:04 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

    As I said, no one is going to enter a shooting war over Ukraine. Not because Russia's attack is reasonable, but because we don't want WWIII. There will be significant costs though, to everyone.
    The costs, and sanctions, in pre-NATO times were wielded by Truman during the Berlin Airlift. Not a shots-fired response, but the USSR pulled back then, and
    its successor state might do so now.

    Stalin pulled back because he needed trade to rebuild; if Putin pulls back, it will be at
    the behest of oligarchs who dislike separation from their bank accounts...

    The US had a direct stake in the outcome of the situation in Berlin. That does not exist for the US or most other countries regarding Ukraine. That's the bottom line. Putin won't back down unless the cost is very, very high.

    I seem to recall they spent 10 years trying to deal with Afghanistan before deciding it was too costly.

    --

    Rick C.

    +-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to legg on Wed Mar 2 18:23:46 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:46:41 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 06:30:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?
    A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
    personnel leave. Traffic.

    ~Whatever was observed the last time an 'alert level'
    was raised.

    Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-put-russias-nuclear-forces-on-alert-what-does-that-mean-for-the-risk-of-nuclear-war

    Why did you post this link? The question was about how to tell if Russia has nuclear weapons on high alert. This article says nothing about that.


    How has the United States responded to Putin so far?

    There is no evidence that the Biden administration has reciprocated in
    any sense to Putin’s announcement that he was ordering his nuclear
    forces in a “special regime of combat duty” — perhaps in part because it was unclear what that means in practical terms.

    The US has indicated they have NOT responded in kind.


    Nor was there word from Washington of evidence that Putin had taken
    worrying steps such as loading nuclear weapons on all or a portion of Russia’s nuclear-capable air fleet or sending additional ballistic
    missile submarines to sea.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html

    Mr. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said the
    threats could be empty unless matched with evidence that nuclear
    weapons are being removed from storage and prepared for action.

    “Unless we see that kind of thing,” Mr. Kristensen said, “it’s rhetoric — it’s madman brinkmanship.”



    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-puts-nuclear-forces-high-alert-escalating-worries-83152160

    For many, Russia's announcement of a nuclear high alert stirred fears
    that the West could be drawn into direct conflict with Russia. But a
    senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
    the United States had yet to see any appreciable change in Russia’s nuclear posture.

    Yes, as Larkin is quick to point out, the world is full of fears.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Wed Mar 2 18:33:46 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:47:27 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff >>>>>> wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as >>>>>>>>>>> much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians >>>>>>>>>>> have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier >>>>>>>>>>> to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone >>>>>>>>>>> manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war? >>>>>>>>> I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other >>>>>>>>>> countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. >>>>>>>>>> But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things >>>>>>>>>> go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear >>>>>>>>> war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one >>>>>>>> is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the >>>>>>>> truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why >>>>>>>> they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support >>>>>>>> Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be >>>>>>>> involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin. >>>>>> There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a >>>>>> video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a >>>>>> map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania >>>>>> which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious >>>>>> reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and >>>>> continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make >>>>> every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make >>>>> the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have >>>>> succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend >>>> NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to >>>> join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It's just beyond stupid to
    back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....


    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

    Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea. It's a pretty close
    parallel, I think.

    It's a terrible parallel. Ukraine wants to join NATO for exactly the reason they now need it, protection from Russia. Mexico has no need for being part of the Warsaw pact, literally none!

    Then there are all the other countries right next to Ukraine, Poland, Romania, etc. that are members of NATO.

    Politicians need an enemy to retain power. Trmp was all about declaring many enemies, so he could claim to be fighting them. Johnson mounted an imaginary war on poverty. Nixon an imaginary war on drugs. Some leaders prefer to fight real wars against
    imaginary enemies such as Russia against Ukraine.

    What is needed is for Russia to join NATO. That would certainly make for a much calmer world. Maybe Putin is pissed that he was never invited. Hmm? Perhaps!

    --

    Rick C.

    +++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Mar 2 19:44:48 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 1:03:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:45:03 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:42:14 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    I never claimed to be a Trump fan. He's a repulsive jerk, but as an amateur has a lot more common sense than the lifetime-power-monger alternatives.

    So drink some bleach, and fill yourself up with chlorquinine.

    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.
    As opposed to Trump, who made any number of people bankrupt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_career_of_Donald_Trump

    Translation: Trump, who made any number of people multimillionaires.

    Presumably every last one of them was related to him. Flyguy does like to label the operations he does on other people's text as translations when a rotation is the operation he has actually carried out.

    Trump definitely isn't the kind of business man who creates valuable assets. Looking at his career he seems better at making assets less valuable than they were when he got them under his control. How much of that lost value he managed to siphon off for
    his own benefit is an open question - some of the losses allowed him to stop paying income tax in recent years.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Wed Mar 2 20:39:12 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:47:15 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as >>>>>>>>>>>> much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier >>>>>>>>>>>> to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone >>>>>>>>>>>> manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war? >>>>>>>>>> I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other >>>>>>>>>>> countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. >>>>>>>>>>> But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things >>>>>>>>>>> go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear >>>>>>>>>> war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one >>>>>>>>> is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the >>>>>>>>> truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why >>>>>>>>> they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support >>>>>>>>> Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be >>>>>>>>> involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a >>>>>>> video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a >>>>>>> map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania >>>>>>> which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious >>>>>>> reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and >>>>>> continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make >>>>>> every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make >>>>>> the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have >>>>>> succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend >>>>> NATO to Ukraine beggars belief. It's like Khrushchev inviting Mexico to >>>>> join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that. It's just beyond stupid to
    back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....


    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.


    Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea. It's a pretty close
    parallel, I think.

    I make no apologies for Putin, who was and is a murderous thug.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Tribes need to define "us" and "them" before they can slaughter
    "them."

    Language is one thing to tribalize around. Hitler thought he owned any
    place with German-speaking people. Putin, russian speakers.

    And the cyrillic alphabet.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Mar 2 21:44:46 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 7:44:57 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 1:03:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:45:03 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:42:14 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.

    Wow! That from a Trump fan!

    I never claimed to be a Trump fan. He's a repulsive jerk, but as an amateur has a lot more common sense than the lifetime-power-monger alternatives.

    So drink some bleach, and fill yourself up with chlorquinine.

    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.
    As opposed to Trump, who made any number of people bankrupt.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_career_of_Donald_Trump
    Translation: Trump, who made any number of people multimillionaires.
    Presumably every last one of them was related to him. Flyguy does like to label the operations he does on other people's text as translations when a rotation is the operation he has actually carried out.

    Translation: Flyguy is right and I don't know WTF I am talking about.


    Trump definitely isn't the kind of business man who creates valuable assets. Looking at his career he seems better at making assets less valuable than they were when he got them under his control. How much of that lost value he managed to siphon off
    for his own benefit is an open question - some of the losses allowed him to stop paying income tax in recent years.

    Translation: Exactly the opposite is true, but I can't admit it.


    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Mar 2 21:57:26 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:44:54 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 7:44:57 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 1:03:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:45:03 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 7:42:14 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:47:15 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Biden is the classic politician who has done nothing in his life but be a politician. And of course he got rich doing that.
    As opposed to Trump, who made any number of people bankrupt.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_career_of_Donald_Trump
    Translation: Trump, who made any number of people multimillionaires.
    Presumably every last one of them was related to him. Flyguy does like to label the operations he does on other people's text as translations when a rotation is the operation he has actually carried out.

    Translation: Flyguy is right and I don't know WTF I am talking about.

    Flyguy does like his comforting delusions. He should have noticed by now that everybody sees them as delusions, but he does seem to have become remarkably senile recently.

    Trump definitely isn't the kind of business man who creates valuable assets. Looking at his career he seems better at making assets less valuable than they were when he got them under his control. How much of that lost value he managed to siphon off
    for his own benefit is an open question - some of the losses allowed him to stop paying income tax in recent years.

    Translation: Exactly the opposite is true, but I can't admit it.

    Flyguy is brilliant at seeing what he whats to see in other's peoples text. It save him the trouble of reading what they have actually said - which is pretty much beyond him now, anyway

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Mar 2 22:17:10 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 3:39:26 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:47:15 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.


    Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea. It's a pretty close parallel, I think.

    It might be, if the rest of central America and most of South America had already joined the Warsaw pact. Many of the Ukraine's neighbours are already members of NATO.
    It's actually a Flyguy-level thought bubble.

    I make no apologies for Putin, who was and is a murderous thug.

    Tribes need to define "us" and "them" before they can slaughter "them."

    Tribes are defined by "us" and "them". They don't have to make any special effort just before they start a war.

    Russia is nation state, which is much bigger than any tribe, and Putin is merely exploiting tribal thinking in order to try to justify a rather foolish war,

    Language is one thing to tribalize around. Hitler thought he owned any place with German-speaking people. Putin, russian speakers.

    And the cyrillic alphabet.

    Hitler was more interested in Aryan descent, which was an equally nonsensical idea.

    The Cyrillic alphabet is just one more alphabet. It doesn't unit the people who use it any more that the Roman alphabet we use. Even the Basques write their language with the Roman alphabet and Basque isn't related to any other known language. Finish is
    almost as much of an isolate, and it is also written with Roman characters (though the letters B, C, F, G, Q, W, X, Z and Å are only used in names and foreign loanwords , and there are quite a few diacritcal marks).

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Thu Mar 3 08:51:40 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:23:46 -0800 (PST), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:46:41 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 06:30:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:35:59 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:07:17 -0800 (PST), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian nuclear
    weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?
    A change. Any change. Parking lot occupancy. Reduced
    personnel leave. Traffic.

    ~Whatever was observed the last time an 'alert level'
    was raised.

    Ok, you have no idea. Got it. So how do you know nothing has been observed? >> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/putin-put-russias-nuclear-forces-on-alert-what-does-that-mean-for-the-risk-of-nuclear-war

    Why did you post this link? The question was about how to tell if Russia has nuclear weapons on high alert. This article says nothing about that.


    How has the United States responded to Putin so far?

    There is no evidence that the Biden administration has reciprocated in
    any sense to Putins announcement that he was ordering his nuclear
    forces in a special regime of combat duty perhaps in part because
    it was unclear what that means in practical terms.

    The US has indicated they have NOT responded in kind.


    Nor was there word from Washington of evidence that Putin had taken
    worrying steps such as loading nuclear weapons on all or a portion of
    Russias nuclear-capable air fleet or sending additional ballistic
    missile submarines to sea.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html

    Mr. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said the
    threats could be empty unless matched with evidence that nuclear
    weapons are being removed from storage and prepared for action.

    Unless we see that kind of thing, Mr. Kristensen said, its
    rhetoric its madman brinkmanship.



    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-puts-nuclear-forces-high-alert-escalating-worries-83152160

    For many, Russia's announcement of a nuclear high alert stirred fears
    that the West could be drawn into direct conflict with Russia. But a
    senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
    the United States had yet to see any appreciable change in Russias
    nuclear posture.

    Yes, as Larkin is quick to point out, the world is full of fears.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60564123

    UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace told BBC News the UK had so far seen
    no change in the actual posture of Russia's nuclear weapons.

    That will be watched closely, intelligence sources confirm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Mar 3 20:56:55 2022
    On 03/03/2022 02:47, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff
    wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter
    Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg
    wrote:
    Whatever alert it was, it wasn't 'high alert'.

    There's no evidence of any change to the Russian
    nuclear weapons alert status.

    What would you expect to see?

    Perhaps the guy works for the DoD and can only tell as >>>>>>>>>>>> much.

    But I just read on a Bulgarian site that the Russians
    have started drills with their nuclear submarines.

    May be not the worst news, if this will make them easier >>>>>>>>>>>> to detect/locate/target.

    I think an all out war is inevitable now unless someone >>>>>>>>>>>> manages to kill the psychopath in the Kremlin.

    You think what is happening in Ukraine is not all out war? >>>>>>>>>> I mean an all-out world war. The civilized world just
    *cannot* let Putin do as he pleases any longer.

    Putin is rattling the nuclear saber to indicate no other >>>>>>>>>>> countries should send in troops or even think about an
    attack on Russia.

    I don't see how anyone can prevent Russia from taking
    Ukraine. What they can do is make Russia pay dearly for it. >>>>>>>>>>> But the cost to Ukrainians will be very dear as well.
    However, that is the case even if they simply let the
    Russians in peacefully. This is not new. We know how things >>>>>>>>>>> go when Russia is in charge of your country.

    Which is why I said an all out war - yes, meaning a nuclear >>>>>>>>>> war - is now inevitable. Unless someone shoots Putin.

    Yes, that is what I expected you meant and is nonsense. No one >>>>>>>>> is going to fight Russia over Ukraine. That's sad, but it's the >>>>>>>>> truth. If Ukraine was a member of NATO, then all manner of
    assistance would be provided. However, had Ukraine been a
    member of NATO, Russia would know not to invade. That is why >>>>>>>>> they are invading, to prevent Ukraine from ever becoming a
    member of NATO. Russia wants other states around it to support >>>>>>>>> Russia, not to be part of the enemy.

    So war by Russia today, because they know no one else will be >>>>>>>>> involved and it will NOT become WWIII.
    In a similar way the world watched Hitler take first Poland,
    then... It won't be any different unless someone shoots Putin.
    There are one or two more non-NATO countries in the area. I saw a >>>>>>> video of the President of Belarus which showed invasion plans on a >>>>>>> map which included attacking Moldova. After that would be Romania >>>>>>> which is a NATO country. Any NATO country is off limits for obvious >>>>>>> reasons. Attacking a NATO country *would* cause WWIII.


    afaiu Romania and Moldava are extremely close, sharing language and >>>>>> continuously talking about unification, since they were made two
    separate countries after the falls of USSR If Putins goal was to make >>>>>> every non-NATO country near Russia consider NATO membership and make >>>>>> the NATO countries increase their defense budgets, he seems to have >>>>>> succeeded


    The level of cupidity that has led our Warfare State to try to extend >>>>> NATO to Ukraine beggars belief.  It's like Khrushchev inviting
    Mexico to
    join the Warsaw Pact.

    Yo, ruler-types: ddg for "buffer state".


    But the Ukrainians should have some say. Maybe they want to be more
    european.

    Nobody over here is trying to prevent that.  It's just beyond stupid to >>> back the Russians into a corner like that--a nuclear-armed state with
    nothing left to lose is....


    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

    Yes. At least Trump had the decency to leave quietly when his term was
    over, rather than changing the constitution in order to stay on as
    president.



    Think about that Mexico -> Warsaw pact idea.  It's a pretty close
    parallel, I think.

    There is a big difference - Mexico is on the opposite side of the world
    to the ex-USSR, while Ukraine is adjacent to NATO countries.

    Oh, and NATO did not try to invite Ukraine to join, nor did the EU - it
    is Ukraine that /asked/ to join. Again, a big difference.

    I agree with you that it would be daft for NATO to push Russia into a
    corner. But it is /Russia/, or more specifically /Putin/, that has
    pushed Ukraine towards NATO. It is his fault, totally and completely,
    not NATO's or Ukraine's.


    I make no apologies for Putin, who was and is a murderous thug.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to David Brown on Thu Mar 3 17:33:54 2022
    On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 6:57:06 AM UTC+11, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 02:47, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:42:06 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:21:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    onsdag den 2. marts 2022 kl. 15.43.04 UTC+1 skrev
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 8:45:18 AM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 2:06, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 4:15:39 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 23:09, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-5, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 3/1/2022 22:07, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC-5, legg wrote:

    <snip>

    I don't think anything happened to back Russia into a corner. I do
    think that Putin is insane and dreams of empire.

    Bad that he has nukes.

    It's crazy that the fates of so many depend on the emotions of one.

    Yes. At least Trump had the decency to leave quietly when his term was
    over, rather than changing the constitution in order to stay on as
    president.

    He didn't want to, but his Capitol invasion didn't have the desired effect - Trump is, first and foremost inept. He's good at impressing idiots, but idiots don't perform all that well. no matter how effectively they've been impressed.

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M Kfivethousand@21:1/5 to Gerhard Hoffmann on Sat Mar 19 14:35:23 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 12:47:26 PM UTC-6, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 27.02.22 um 19:05 schrieb jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:21:40 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Some defect in human socialization lets insane people become in
    charge.
    Wow! That from a Trump fan!
    Maybe the finite human life span is nature's way of limiting that
    effect.
    Putler's corticoid face suggests his time is limited.

    I think I even spied a graft and asked about the graft

    The answer said it just needs rest but they will put in a catheter so he doesn't because he is likely to tear it again

    mk5000


    With that fifth in just one clip
    My fans asking me bleek, you dissing squads?
    Ma I'm dissing everyone
    And everyone feel they involve--Memphis Bleek – They Will Never Play Me

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M Kfivethousand@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Sat Mar 19 14:44:14 2022
    On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:08:03 PM UTC-6, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/02/27 9:21 a.m., Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550

    Of course Putin also realizes that if he tried to start a nuclear war
    that his generals, etc., would simply stop him. He would have an
    unexpected heart attack. Possibly from some sharp, handy object.

    It is simply another bluff.



    Why isn't possible these illnesses and attacks have already occurred

    He appears so infrequently these days
    Why wouldn't it be possible they have stuck him in dialysis 3 times per week now?

    Or don’t know yet?

    mk5000

    They say there's nothing we can do
    Just stand back
    But while the government comforts you
    Says "Let's be patient"

    https://www.letssingit.com/the-living-end-lyrics-have-they-forgotten-gbm2l8k LetsSingIt - The Internet Lyrics Database

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M Kfivethousand@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat Mar 19 14:56:04 2022
    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:07:40 PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then >either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?




    dialysis

    I am convinced that is the reason for the need for clean environment

    I bet Sometimes when he wakes up after a session he is confused and it takes him a while to realize where she is

    Trump was never a germaphobe

    I could see him getting caught with a.
    paramour and telling his wife of the moment

    But honey you know I would never sleep with anyone but you, I'm a germaphobe

    mk5000


    He belongs to me, the boy is mine
    Must you do the things you do
    You keep on acting like a fool
    You need to know it's me not you--Brandy & Monica - The Boy Is Mine

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 19 16:11:41 2022
    lørdag den 19. marts 2022 kl. 23.49.17 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT), M Kfivethousand <marik...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:07:40 PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >> >the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?




    dialysis

    I am convinced that is the reason for the need for clean environment

    I bet Sometimes when he wakes up after a session he is confused and it takes him a while to realize where she is

    Trump was never a germaphobe

    I could see him getting caught with a.
    paramour and telling his wife of the moment

    But honey you know I would never sleep with anyone but you, I'm a germaphobe There are a lot of germs available. Monogamy has legal and health
    benefits.

    and stops the most desirable powerful men from "hoarding" all the women, leaving a bunch angry
    frustrated young men that feel left out, and that is never a good thing, unless you want to start a war

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to marika5000@gmail.com on Sat Mar 19 15:49:04 2022
    On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT), M Kfivethousand <marika5000@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:07:40 PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of
    the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?




    dialysis

    I am convinced that is the reason for the need for clean environment

    I bet Sometimes when he wakes up after a session he is confused and it takes him a while to realize where she is

    Trump was never a germaphobe

    I could see him getting caught with a.
    paramour and telling his wife of the moment

    But honey you know I would never sleep with anyone but you, I'm a germaphobe

    There are a lot of germs available. Monogamy has legal and health
    benefits.


    mk5000


    He belongs to me, the boy is mine
    Must you do the things you do
    You keep on acting like a fool
    You need to know it's me not you--Brandy & Monica - The Boy Is Mine


    I know people who are extreme germophobes, but ride bikes on the
    streets of San Francisco.

    Miscalibration of risks.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Sat Mar 19 18:13:31 2022
    On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 16:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    lrdag den 19. marts 2022 kl. 23.49.17 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT), M Kfivethousand
    <marik...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:07:40 PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:59:14 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
    wrote:
    On 28-Feb-22 4:21 am, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    If true, this makes for an extremely dangerous circumstance. The last thing anyone needs is to have an enormous number of hair trigger nuclear weapons on "high" alert.
    Even a fraction of a full scale exchange will end western civilization as we know it for a long time to come.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550


    The delusional maniac knows there's risk that he'll deposed, and then
    either imprisoned for life, or executed, so he wants to take the rest of >> >> >the world with him in WW3.

    Sylvia.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/kremlin-installs-special-antiseptic-tunnels-protect-putin-71297852

    What a nut case. Wasn't Hitler germ-phobic? Or was that Howard Hughes?




    dialysis

    I am convinced that is the reason for the need for clean environment

    I bet Sometimes when he wakes up after a session he is confused and it takes him a while to realize where she is

    Trump was never a germaphobe

    I could see him getting caught with a.
    paramour and telling his wife of the moment

    But honey you know I would never sleep with anyone but you, I'm a germaphobe
    There are a lot of germs available. Monogamy has legal and health
    benefits.

    and stops the most desirable powerful men from "hoarding" all the women, leaving a bunch angry
    frustrated young men that feel left out, and that is never a good thing, unless you want to start a war




    This is a pretty good book.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1250236061

    It talks a bit about that sort of thing.




    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M Kfivethousand@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Mar 31 15:28:51 2022
    On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    This is a pretty good book.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1250236061

    It talks a bit about that sort of thing.


    Thanks
    I will check it out

    Taking a u turn back to the subject header referencing probable testosterone poisoning victim Putin

    He must have put Russia on high nuclear alert because he made a huge mess of Chernobyl

    all the past stories say how the place has been turned into lush undisturbed forests with wildlife, due to no presence of humans.
    all the plants and animals thrive here for decades, but the dumb russkies got radiation poisoning in less than a month

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-dust-chernobyls-red-forest-2022-03-28/

    "Russian soldiers who seized the site of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster drove their armoured vehicles without radiation protection through a highly toxic zone called the "Red Forest", kicking up clouds of radioactive dust, workers at the site said."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)