• new (to me) power fet package

    From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 07:35:01 2022
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 16:59:37 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:35:01 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <u30a1hdhvqdosn910fql45diobdct1fna7@4ax.com>:

    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    Yes looking at teh datasheet is says .6 degrees C / W

    Note 5 says 6W on a peeseebebe


    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Feb 22 09:40:00 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:59:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:35:01 -0800) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><u30a1hdhvqdosn910fql45diobdct1fna7@4ax.com>:

    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    Yes looking at teh datasheet is says .6 degrees C / W

    Note 5 says 6W on a peeseebebe


    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    ...

    6 watts, maybe even 10, is reasonable on a pcb.

    The virtue of that package is the many source connections and
    presumably a lot of source wirebonds. Good for high-current pulses.
    Dpaks have that one dinky source pin.

    An xray would be fun.

    Someone could start a hugely profitable web site that included, among
    other things, part x-rays.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 11:35:32 2022
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 18.40.16 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:59:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:35:01 -0800) it happened >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <u30a1hdhvqdosn910...@4ax.com>:

    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    Yes looking at teh datasheet is says .6 degrees C / W

    Note 5 says 6W on a peeseebebe


    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    ...
    6 watts, maybe even 10, is reasonable on a pcb.

    The virtue of that package is the many source connections and
    presumably a lot of source wirebonds. Good for high-current pulses.
    Dpaks have that one dinky source pin.

    An xray would be fun.

    Someone could start a hugely profitable web site that included, among
    other things, part x-rays.


    maybe send one to this guy, https://zeptobars.com/en/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 22:13:17 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package
    has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Goldstein@21:1/5 to presence@MUNGEpanix.com on Tue Feb 22 17:33:02 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package
    has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?

    I believe most often the automotive subcons (Delco, Bosch, etc.) or
    their subcons deal directly with the manufacturers for such large
    quantities. I recall hearing about clauses in many manufacturers'
    distributor contracts allowing for direct sales for large enough
    volumes.

    Pricing used to be absolutely brutal, maybe not at the micro-cent
    level but certainly at the penny level in my memory, and I doubt
    that's changed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 15:10:29 2022
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.

    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 15:12:57 2022
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 16.35.20 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    seems similar, only marginally smaller than a TO263-8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Feb 23 09:48:25 2022
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.






    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.

    But I don't think they're really suggesting using it that way. It's just
    a data point for thermal calculations.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to lang...@fonz.dk on Tue Feb 22 15:20:03 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:10:40 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.
    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C

    I remember a presentation on a cooling method that could achieve very high thermal densities involving tiny nozzles that would maintain a thin layer of liquid on chips. That gave higher thermal transfer because allowing the liquid to boil resulted in a
    layer of insulating gas around the chip most of the time. The only problem they had was the coolant was an organic substance that had the property of dissolving most inks including the markings on the chips which were inked in those days. Now
    everything is laser etched and nearly invisible to start with, so not a problem anyway.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Tue Feb 22 16:08:56 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 15:10:29 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.

    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C

    IR invented extreme fantasy fet power specs, and everybody else had to
    be competitive.

    The boiling liquid, among other things, keeps the source lead from
    unsoldering itself or outright melting.

    Some fet specs have a footnote "package limited", which means the
    specified current will melt the wire bonds. Thanks.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 16:09:13 2022
    onsdag den 23. februar 2022 kl. 00.20.14 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:10:40 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.
    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C
    I remember a presentation on a cooling method that could achieve very high thermal densities involving tiny nozzles that would maintain a thin layer of liquid on chips. That gave higher thermal transfer because allowing the liquid to boil resulted in a
    layer of insulating gas around the chip most of the time. T

    I believe they try to hit the peak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleate_boiling

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 16:16:13 2022
    onsdag den 23. februar 2022 kl. 01.09.11 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 15:10:29 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.

    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C
    IR invented extreme fantasy fet power specs, and everybody else had to
    be competitive.

    The boiling liquid, among other things, keeps the source lead from unsoldering itself or outright melting.

    Some fet specs have a footnote "package limited", which means the
    specified current will melt the wire bonds. Thanks.

    https://e2e.ti.com/tags/MOSFET%2bBlog%2bSeries

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to lang...@fonz.dk on Tue Feb 22 17:43:43 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 7:09:23 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    onsdag den 23. februar 2022 kl. 00.20.14 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 6:10:40 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 23.48.38 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
    On 23-Feb-22 2:35 am, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with dpaks for now. Or forever.





    Yes, 250W if you can keep the case at 25 degrees. Good luck with that.
    I seem to remember an IRF app note on how transistor testing is done, everything is
    submerged in a special liquid that boils at 25'C
    I remember a presentation on a cooling method that could achieve very high thermal densities involving tiny nozzles that would maintain a thin layer of liquid on chips. That gave higher thermal transfer because allowing the liquid to boil resulted in
    a layer of insulating gas around the chip most of the time. T
    I believe they try to hit the peak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleate_boiling

    I don't think that was the case. Notice the large temperature delta from the liquid saturation temperature to the peak of the curve. The coolant has to be liquid at something above room temperature to allow handling. Such a large temperature delta
    results in excessive junction temperatures. The goal was not to obtain the highest possible heat transfer, but rather a means of providing adequate heat transfer for every part on the board. The chips did not have droplets of coolant on them. They
    were sprayed so as to maintain an even, thin layer of liquid. The evaporation at the surface of the liquid provided an adequate means of cooling. They simply needed to prevent the liquid from being too thick so as to add excessive thermal resistance
    between the evaporative cooling and the device being cooled.

    As it was explained, immersion was less effective because the bubbles forming essentially create an insulating layer which is less effective at cooling. A thinner layer does not form bubbles and so optimizes cooling. In essence, the issues of nucleate
    boiling are side stepped.

    Now that I look at this with fresh eyes, I realize they were cooling chips in packages. Packages present significant thermal barriers. So maybe this approach is not adequate for the high thermal densities in use today. Or maybe it would work very well
    with appropriate packaging. They do use water cooling on CPU and GPU chips. They don't encounter boiling because the coolant is constantly in motion and never reaches the boiling point. However, the other advantage of the "spray" approach was the high
    density since they used a thin sheet to to distribute the fluid to the microscopic nozzles in the sheet. So that might be very effective for laptop use or other dense packaging applications. The context I saw it was military applications. I think they
    also were researching use of a diamond substrate as a heat spreader which would conduct heat outside the enclosure where it could be carried away by fluid. I don't think the two methods were intended to be combined. Seems synthetic diamond is not so
    expensive. I expect it was not single crystal diamond, but who knows? This was DOD research, like the Internet.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to Steve Goldstein on Wed Feb 23 03:00:31 2022
    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 22:33:21 UTC, Steve Goldstein wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package
    has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?
    I believe most often the automotive subcons (Delco, Bosch, etc.) or
    their subcons deal directly with the manufacturers for such large
    quantities. I recall hearing about clauses in many manufacturers'
    distributor contracts allowing for direct sales for large enough
    volumes.

    Pricing used to be absolutely brutal, maybe not at the micro-cent
    level but certainly at the penny level in my memory, and I doubt
    that's changed.
    The automotive manufacturers will do things like removing the chip package, measuring the silicon area and telling the manufacturer what they are going
    to pay for it. Even if a subcontractor is designing and making the product they
    will still be heavily involved in such details when they think it necessary.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Wed Feb 23 07:13:40 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 03:00:31 -0800 (PST), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 22:33:21 UTC, Steve Goldstein wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe.

    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package
    has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?
    I believe most often the automotive subcons (Delco, Bosch, etc.) or
    their subcons deal directly with the manufacturers for such large
    quantities. I recall hearing about clauses in many manufacturers'
    distributor contracts allowing for direct sales for large enough
    volumes.

    Pricing used to be absolutely brutal, maybe not at the micro-cent
    level but certainly at the penny level in my memory, and I doubt
    that's changed.
    The automotive manufacturers will do things like removing the chip package, >measuring the silicon area and telling the manufacturer what they are going >to pay for it. Even if a subcontractor is designing and making the product they
    will still be heavily involved in such details when they think it necessary.

    John

    One of our big customers demanded that we document our costs and
    accept a small profit.

    And a government facility claimed that they had already calculated our
    costs (including the engineeering) and demanded a price cut. They were
    lying of course.

    We told both, get it somewhere else, but don't use our IP.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Gardner@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Feb 23 15:34:03 2022
    On 23/02/22 15:13, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    One of our big customers demanded that we document our costs and
    accept a small profit.

    And a government facility claimed that they had already calculated our
    costs (including the engineeering) and demanded a price cut. They were
    lying of course.

    We told both, get it somewhere else, but don't use our IP.

    Quite right too! That would have been my response :)

    If the engineering time was the dominant cost, I would
    have told them "pay peanuts, get monkeys".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk on Wed Feb 23 08:24:41 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:34:03 +0000, Tom Gardner
    <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    On 23/02/22 15:13, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    One of our big customers demanded that we document our costs and
    accept a small profit.

    And a government facility claimed that they had already calculated our
    costs (including the engineeering) and demanded a price cut. They were
    lying of course.

    We told both, get it somewhere else, but don't use our IP.

    Quite right too! That would have been my response :)

    If the engineering time was the dominant cost, I would
    have told them "pay peanuts, get monkeys".

    Potential customers often insist on NDAs, and we are happy to oblige.
    We have valuable IP, and they usually don't.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Feb 27 19:51:25 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 03:00:31 -0800 (PST), John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 22:33:21 UTC, Steve Goldstein wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe. >>> >
    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package >>> >has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?
    I believe most often the automotive subcons (Delco, Bosch, etc.) or
    their subcons deal directly with the manufacturers for such large
    quantities. I recall hearing about clauses in many manufacturers'
    distributor contracts allowing for direct sales for large enough
    volumes.

    Pricing used to be absolutely brutal, maybe not at the micro-cent
    level but certainly at the penny level in my memory, and I doubt
    that's changed.
    The automotive manufacturers will do things like removing the chip package, >>measuring the silicon area and telling the manufacturer what they are going >>to pay for it. Even if a subcontractor is designing and making the product they
    will still be heavily involved in such details when they think it necessary. >>
    John

    One of our big customers demanded that we document our costs and
    accept a small profit.

    And a government facility claimed that they had already calculated our
    costs (including the engineeering) and demanded a price cut. They were
    lying of course.

    We told both, get it somewhere else, but don't use our IP.

    Lol. Not sure what's funnier here, the bogus cost calculatios or anybody
    in government even pretending they can estimate or control expenses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to presence@MUNGEpanix.com on Sun Feb 27 12:46:13 2022
    On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:51:25 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 03:00:31 -0800 (PST), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 22:33:21 UTC, Steve Goldstein wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.diodes.com/part/view/DMTH8001STLWQ/

    But 250 watts? Soldered to a chilled-water-cooled copper block maybe. >>>> >
    That's how inverters in some EVs work. I'm not clear on why the package >>>> >has to be so small though, or how you clamp it down.

    1080 amps peak could be fun.

    Digikey wants $4.50 at 100 and of course has none. I'll stick with
    dpaks for now. Or forever.

    Anybody know how the automotive folks order parts? Do they call up
    digikey for special 100k, million and 10million qty prices? Do they
    haggle parts from $0.238476 to $0.238475 when it comes to price?
    I believe most often the automotive subcons (Delco, Bosch, etc.) or
    their subcons deal directly with the manufacturers for such large
    quantities. I recall hearing about clauses in many manufacturers'
    distributor contracts allowing for direct sales for large enough
    volumes.

    Pricing used to be absolutely brutal, maybe not at the micro-cent
    level but certainly at the penny level in my memory, and I doubt
    that's changed.
    The automotive manufacturers will do things like removing the chip package, >>>measuring the silicon area and telling the manufacturer what they are going >>>to pay for it. Even if a subcontractor is designing and making the product they
    will still be heavily involved in such details when they think it necessary. >>>
    John

    One of our big customers demanded that we document our costs and
    accept a small profit.

    And a government facility claimed that they had already calculated our
    costs (including the engineeering) and demanded a price cut. They were
    lying of course.

    We told both, get it somewhere else, but don't use our IP.

    Lol. Not sure what's funnier here, the bogus cost calculatios or anybody
    in government even pretending they can estimate or control expenses.

    We did ask them to send us their spreadsheet.

    It was a bizarre episode. I think the dollar amount of the contract
    sucked in some "expert" procurement droids. After we didn't cut the
    price, they split the project into two POs which apparently got both
    below some threshold.




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