• Adding filter to a INA217

    From amdx@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 12:08:25 2022
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering,  I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

                                          Mikek


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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 10:33:10 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    --

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to amdx@knology.net on Sat Feb 19 18:49:27 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:08:25 -0600) it happened amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in <surbmr$aot$1@dont-email.me>:

    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0 >Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering,  I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    It is a mike preamp, leave it.
    Add the bandpass on the output
    You likely need an opamp for a decent bandpass filter.
    How any RC stages depends on how steep your filter needs to be.
    Plenty info on the net (google)
    First hit for:
    'Bandpass filter calculator'
    http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Bandpass-filter-calculator.php

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 11:11:13 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-8, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    I would like a low pass filter on the input, but I don't want to add noise. >So, I may add it on the output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    If I'm reading the schematic right, you can either put a ferrite bead in
    series with R6 , or a capacitor or R-C in parallel with it, for low-pass filtering.
    Circa 1 uF shouldn't hurt the signal.

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  • From John S@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sat Feb 19 13:23:19 2022
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0 >> Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.


    Where is R7?

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 11:28:32 2022
    lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 20.23.37 UTC+1 skrev John S:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    Where is R7?


    https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina217.pdf page 13

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 12:11:10 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:11:25 AM UTC-8, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-8, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    I would like a low pass filter ...

    If I'm reading the schematic right, you can either put a ferrite bead in series with R6 , or a capacitor or R-C in parallel with it, for low-pass filtering.

    Oops; sign error. For low pass, you want capacitor in series with R6, or inductor or L-R in parallel.

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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 14:43:28 2022
    On 2/19/2022 2:11 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:11:25 AM UTC-8, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-8, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    I would like a low pass filter ...
    If I'm reading the schematic right, you can either put a ferrite bead in
    series with R6 , or a capacitor or R-C in parallel with it, for low-pass filtering.
    Oops; sign error. For low pass, you want capacitor in series with R6, or inductor or L-R in parallel.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0
                                      Mikek


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to John S on Sat Feb 19 14:41:40 2022
    On 2/19/2022 1:23 PM, John S wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0 >>>>
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering,  I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent
    overloading the state from out of band noise.  A low pass filter only
    requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the
    filter) or to ground.  Across the input pair gives differential
    filtering.  Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering.  The
    series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing
    input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?  Do you have noise?  I mean, do
    you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier?  What is the level of your input
    signal?  What is the level of the output signal?  What is the signal
    source complex impedance?  What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for.  I suspect this
    design uses more than one type of signal source.  It would be nice to
    actually understand the details.  It makes a difference.


    Where is R7?

    Do you mean the output load?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0



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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sat Feb 19 14:40:15 2022
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0 >> Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?

     Not really, I just want low noise and high gain. What is high gain, I
    don't know yet, I'm building a big ear.

    I have experimented with an amp that has a gain of 3500 and could hear
    the clock ticking and every car that went by.

    I wrapped the mic in foam and put it in a lead pipe. I didn't hear those
    things but I did hear hiss. I swapped the mic for resistors

    but no longer remember what value my ears said had the equal noise.

    Do you have noise?
    Sure, but I can't quantify it.
    I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

     Because of the high gain, noise is also amplified. I have been told
    that the mic I have chose is noisy, but for now it's what I have.

    AOM5024

    https://www.puiaudio.com/media/SpecSheet/AOM-5024L-HD-R.pdf
    I'm simply trying to make a low noise audio amplifier. It is probably
    all over kill if I make decent filters to roll off both ends.

     But, that is OK.


    What is the gain of your amplifier?
     Probably an adjustable max of 4000 voltage gain.
    What is the level of your input signal?
      mic input, other than that, I don't know the max of that.
    What is the level of the output signal?
    Output to drive headphones.
    What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?
    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    Here is my proposed circuit,

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0
     Just wondering if I can get some filtering in the Gain resistor circuit.

                        Mike



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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Feb 19 15:01:36 2022
    On 2/19/2022 12:49 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:08:25 -0600) it happened amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in <surbmr$aot$1@dont-email.me>:

    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0 >> Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering,  I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    It is a mike preamp, leave it.
    Add the bandpass on the output
    You likely need an opamp for a decent bandpass filter.
    How any RC stages depends on how steep your filter needs to be.
    Plenty info on the net (google)
    First hit for:
    'Bandpass filter calculator'
    http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Bandpass-filter-calculator.php



     Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.

    There may come a time when I can see if a good bandpass filter helps any.

     The PCB.

    Tinyurl,

    https://tinyurl.com/2m6f3dcf

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/321599109184?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D611021ebebe54267a7a59b3edfb151ca%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D321599109184%26itm%3D321599109184%26pmt%
    3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab51cfa85-91c6-11ec-ad78-267cb896afc4%7Cparentrq%3A13c783f417f0a7650d5e6a6afffb638c%7Ciid%3A1

                                     Mikek



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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Sat Feb 19 15:31:08 2022
    On 2/19/2022 3:15 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT wrote:

    ==========================
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.



    ...... Phil


    Yep, it will never work, so don't follow this thread.

                              Mikek


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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT on Sat Feb 19 13:15:41 2022
    amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT wrote:

    ==========================

    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.



    ...... Phil

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to IDIOT on Sat Feb 19 14:08:59 2022
    amdx is an incorrigible FUCKING IDIOT wrote: =======================================
    <
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.


    Yep, it will never work,

    ** So kindly FUCK OFF.

    so don't follow this thread.

    ** DROP dead you TROLLING wog POS.



    .... love, Phil

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 14:29:07 2022
    lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 19.33.21 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.


    balanced, XLR, phantom power, should be big hint that it is a microphone pre amplifier

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to lang...@fonz.dk on Sat Feb 19 14:38:14 2022
    lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    ==================

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal?
    What is the level of the output signal?
    What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    balanced, XLR, phantom power, should be big hint that it is a microphone pre amplifier


    ** LOL - ain't Rick C a hoot ??

    Pin up boy for the Dunning Kruger Effect.



    ...... Phil

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 15:10:35 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:11:21 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:11:25 AM UTC-8, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-8, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    I would like a low pass filter ...
    If I'm reading the schematic right, you can either put a ferrite bead in series with R6 , or a capacitor or R-C in parallel with it, for low-pass filtering.
    Oops; sign error. For low pass, you want capacitor in series with R6, or inductor or L-R in parallel.

    I'm not sure that is going to do what you want. A series cap on R6 will produce less gain at the low end. Higher impedance in the reference leg of the negative feedback reduces gain to a minimum of 1. Parallel or serial is not the issue, both produce
    a higher impedance at low frequencies and so a lower gain. The problem is this leg is not the place to use a cap to create a low pass filter. Even a high pass filter at this point has the limitation of having 0dB as the floor, so not such a good filter.
    To make a low pass filter, the cap needs to be across the feedback resistor which is not accessible.

    Consider this. If you could create a useful filter in this configuration, they would include it in the app notes in the data sheet I am sure.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to gnuarm.del...@gmail.com on Sat Feb 19 15:49:11 2022
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

    ============================

    Ok, you want something to filter noise, but don't know what.
    You don't know anything about your noise.
    At least you know something about the mic.
    But it sounds like your mic is actually pretty good,
    producing about the same noise as a resistor.



    ** ROTFL - resistors actually don't make good microphones.

    The pin-up boy has just gone to page 3, in the nude.


    .... Phil

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 15:43:27 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:40:29 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?
    Not really, I just want low noise and high gain. What is high gain, I
    don't know yet, I'm building a big ear.

    I have experimented with an amp that has a gain of 3500 and could hear
    the clock ticking and every car that went by.

    I wrapped the mic in foam and put it in a lead pipe. I didn't hear those things but I did hear hiss. I swapped the mic for resistors

    but no longer remember what value my ears said had the equal noise.

    Do you have noise?
    Sure, but I can't quantify it.
    I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?
    Because of the high gain, noise is also amplified. I have been told
    that the mic I have chose is noisy, but for now it's what I have.

    AOM5024

    https://www.puiaudio.com/media/SpecSheet/AOM-5024L-HD-R.pdf
    I'm simply trying to make a low noise audio amplifier. It is probably
    all over kill if I make decent filters to roll off both ends.

    But, that is OK.

    Ok, you want something to filter noise, but don't know what. You don't know anything about your noise. At least you know something about the mic. But it sounds like your mic is actually pretty good, producing about the same noise as a resistor. How
    much better do you think it's going to get?

    The only advantage a filter will do is remove noise outside your passband which is not a lot. 300-3000 Hz vs 20-20,000, so about 1/3rd the noise?


    What is the gain of your amplifier?
    Probably an adjustable max of 4000 voltage gain.
    What is the level of your input signal?
    mic input, other than that, I don't know the max of that.
    What is the level of the output signal?
    Output to drive headphones.
    What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?
    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    I think the 48V option is for a mic that needs a high DC bias. If you are using an electret mic, you probably can simplify the circuit a lot. For one thing, you don't need differential inputs. Makes the filtering simpler. Use a battery for the
    electret bias to avoid any added noise on the input.


    Here is my proposed circuit,

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0
    Just wondering if I can get some filtering in the Gain resistor circuit.

    If you mean RG, no. Well, the answer is yes, but it will be high pass which you don't need.

    Remove C2. Don't short it, disconnect it entirely. It is doing nothing. The output filter can be 1k and 47 nF/150 nF, slightly more convenient numbers, but whatever. The R4/R5 value loads the mic which is now a much higher input impedance reducing
    the gain. Maybe instead of using a 14k resistor to 15V, use a divider pair with a lower parallel resistance and a 3V reference. Then R4/R5 aren't so much a problem. Or increase the values of R4/R5. I'm not sure if they have recommended values for
    some reason. Check the amp data sheet. Input bias is usually a factor, but your design is AC so maybe not important.

    --

    Rick C.

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Sat Feb 19 16:11:54 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:15:52 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT wrote:

    ==========================

    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.

    Or a better microphone assembly. I've never done it, but I've read about shotgun mics. I think each element needs it's own amplifier, but read up on it, maybe they combine them all into one amp. Or maybe it uses an acoustic coupling of the tubes into
    a single element. I think it makes the mic less important since the acoustics boost the signal quite a bit.

    https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/281/really-weird-diy-shotgun-mic-old-yes-but-i-just-found-it-again

    The OP's setup would only need a 2 foot tube to reach 300 Hz so rather smaller than shown.

    A parabolic reflector also can greatly improve the sensitivity of the mic.

    I'm talking to the OP, not the resident noise maker, so Phil can keep his comments to himself. It's not like anyone cares what he says. He is also frequently wrong.

    --

    Rick C.

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  • From John S@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Sat Feb 19 18:48:39 2022
    On 2/19/2022 1:28 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 20.23.37 UTC+1 skrev John S:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    Where is R7?


    https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina217.pdf page 13

    Oh. Didn't realize it had to be found elsewhere.

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 16:24:15 2022
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:


    ** Has all the personality traits of a pedofile. ==================================


    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.


    Or a better microphone assembly. I've never done it, but I've read about shotgun mics.

    ** The pin-up boy talks and moves its arm and legs.

    I think each element needs it's own amplifier, but read up on it, maybe they combine them all into one amp.

    ** But makes no sense - like a robot.


    Or maybe it uses an acoustic coupling of the tubes into a single element.

    ** Maybe the Moon really IS constructed from green cheeze ??



    I'm talking to the OP,

    ** In his wet dreams, while pulling his tiny cock.


    Rick Cunt

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  • From John S@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 18:49:27 2022
    On 2/19/2022 2:41 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 1:23 PM, John S wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0

    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering,  I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent
    overloading the state from out of band noise.  A low pass filter only
    requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the
    filter) or to ground.  Across the input pair gives differential
    filtering.  Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering.  The
    series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing
    input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?  Do you have noise?  I mean, do
    you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier?  What is the level of your input
    signal?  What is the level of the output signal?  What is the signal
    source complex impedance?  What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for.  I suspect this
    design uses more than one type of signal source.  It would be nice to
    actually understand the details.  It makes a difference.


    Where is R7?

    Do you mean the output load?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0


    It didn't appear to be labeled as R7.

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 17:01:18 2022
    søndag den 20. februar 2022 kl. 01.49.00 UTC+1 skrev John S:
    On 2/19/2022 1:28 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 20.23.37 UTC+1 skrev John S:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the >>>> output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.

    Where is R7?


    https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina217.pdf page 13
    Oh. Didn't realize it had to be found elsewhere.
    someone took the image from the datasheet and modified it but didn't change the text

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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sat Feb 19 19:56:21 2022
    On 2/19/2022 5:10 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:11:21 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:11:25 AM UTC-8, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-8, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    I would like a low pass filter ...
    If I'm reading the schematic right, you can either put a ferrite bead in >>> series with R6 , or a capacitor or R-C in parallel with it, for low-pass filtering.
    Oops; sign error. For low pass, you want capacitor in series with R6, or
    inductor or L-R in parallel.
    I'm not sure that is going to do what you want. A series cap on R6 will produce less gain at the low end. Higher impedance in the reference leg of the negative feedback reduces gain to a minimum of 1. Parallel or serial is not the issue, both
    produce a higher impedance at low frequencies and so a lower gain. The problem is this leg is not the place to use a cap to create a low pass filter. Even a high pass filter at this point has the limitation of having 0dB as the floor, so not such a
    good filter. To make a low pass filter, the cap needs to be across the feedback resistor which is not accessible.

    Consider this. If you could create a useful filter in this configuration, they would include it in the app notes in the data sheet I am sure.

    Ya, I think we are past this now.

                                    Thanks, Mikek


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sat Feb 19 19:40:15 2022
    On 2/19/2022 6:11 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:15:52 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT wrote:

    ==========================
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.
    Or a better microphone assembly. I've never done it, but I've read about shotgun mics. I think each element needs it's own amplifier, but read up on it, maybe they combine them all into one amp. Or maybe it uses an acoustic coupling of the tubes
    into a single element. I think it makes the mic less important since the acoustics boost the signal quite a bit.

    https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/281/really-weird-diy-shotgun-mic-old-yes-but-i-just-found-it-again

    The OP's setup would only need a 2 foot tube to reach 300 Hz so rather smaller than shown.

    A parabolic reflector also can greatly improve the sensitivity of the mic.


    That shotgun mic is where this all started (and might end up). It does
    use only a single condensor mic no longer available, but I'm sure can
    be  much improved on now.

    I think the directivity is also an important if not more detail of the parabolic, or the shotgun.

                                            Mikek



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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sat Feb 19 19:52:25 2022
    On 2/19/2022 5:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:40:29 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit
    (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the
    output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?
    Not really, I just want low noise and high gain. What is high gain, I
    don't know yet, I'm building a big ear.

    I have experimented with an amp that has a gain of 3500 and could hear
    the clock ticking and every car that went by.

    I wrapped the mic in foam and put it in a lead pipe. I didn't hear those
    things but I did hear hiss. I swapped the mic for resistors

    but no longer remember what value my ears said had the equal noise.

    Do you have noise?
    Sure, but I can't quantify it.
    I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?
    Because of the high gain, noise is also amplified. I have been told
    that the mic I have chose is noisy, but for now it's what I have.

    AOM5024

    https://www.puiaudio.com/media/SpecSheet/AOM-5024L-HD-R.pdf
    I'm simply trying to make a low noise audio amplifier. It is probably
    all over kill if I make decent filters to roll off both ends.

    But, that is OK.
    Ok, you want something to filter noise, but don't know what. You don't know anything about your noise. At least you know something about the mic. But it sounds like your mic is actually pretty good, producing about the same noise as a resistor.
    How much better do you think it's going to get?

    The only advantage a filter will do is remove noise outside your passband which is not a lot. 300-3000 Hz vs 20-20,000, so about 1/3rd the noise?


    What is the gain of your amplifier?
    Probably an adjustable max of 4000 voltage gain.
    What is the level of your input signal?
    mic input, other than that, I don't know the max of that.
    What is the level of the output signal?
    Output to drive headphones.
    What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?
    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.
    I think the 48V option is for a mic that needs a high DC bias. If you are using an electret mic, you probably can simplify the circuit a lot. For one thing, you don't need differential inputs. Makes the filtering simpler. Use a battery for the
    electret bias to avoid any added noise on the input.


    Here is my proposed circuit,

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0
    Just wondering if I can get some filtering in the Gain resistor circuit.
    If you mean RG, no. Well, the answer is yes, but it will be high pass which you don't need.

    Remove C2. Don't short it, disconnect it entirely. It is doing nothing. The output filter can be 1k and 47 nF/150 nF, slightly more convenient numbers, but whatever. The R4/R5 value loads the mic which is now a much higher input impedance reducing
    the gain. Maybe instead of using a 14k resistor to 15V, use a divider pair with a lower parallel resistance and a 3V reference. Then R4/R5 aren't so much a problem. Or increase the values of R4/R5. I'm not sure if they have recommended values for
    some reason. Check the amp data sheet. Input bias is usually a factor, but your design is AC so maybe not important.

    OK, now I'm laughing at my self about C2. I know there are suggested
    ways to connect an unbalanced mic to a balanced input.

    As I understand it, the biggest reason for that is to prevent problems
    with long cables. I won't have long cables. I still don't really
    understand, if

    I need a better mic connection circuit for unbal to bal or if this just
    fine. I was going for lower values in the mic circuit for lower noise,

    and the manufacturer of the low noise chip says, 2.2kΩ so I left them. I
    was thinking it was some type of bias for the input. Still do.

     On the 14kΩ, it biases the mic at about 1000nV which is near
    recommended, not sure why 3V and 2.2k would be better, but not opposed

    to adding another resistor. Just would like to know the advantage or disadvantage.

                                                Thanks, Mikek


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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 17:58:27 2022
    amdx = TROLLING CUNT wrote:

    ========================

    ** Tell me - what do it take to make a nut case, asshole like YOU

    FUCK THE HELL OFF ????????????

    Physical violence ?




    ..... Phil

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to John S on Sat Feb 19 18:30:34 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:49:46 PM UTC-5, John S wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 2:41 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 1:23 PM, John S wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0

    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the >>>> output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.

    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent
    overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only
    requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the
    filter) or to ground. Across the input pair gives differential
    filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The
    series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing
    input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise? Do you have noise? I mean, do
    you know what you wish to prevent, details?

    What is the gain of your amplifier? What is the level of your input
    signal? What is the level of the output signal? What is the signal
    source complex impedance? What is your load?

    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this
    design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to
    actually understand the details. It makes a difference.


    Where is R7?

    Do you mean the output load?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0

    It didn't appear to be labeled as R7.

    R7 is the adjustment potentiometer in series with R6.

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 18:38:14 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:40:27 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 6:11 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:15:52 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    amdx is an incorrigible IDIOT wrote:

    ==========================
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.
    ** Yaaawnnnn......

    To hear or record very faint sounds, you need two things:

    1. A special ( read expensive) low noise microphone.

    2. A *VERY* quite indoor environment.

    You have neither.
    Or a better microphone assembly. I've never done it, but I've read about shotgun mics. I think each element needs it's own amplifier, but read up on it, maybe they combine them all into one amp. Or maybe it uses an acoustic coupling of the tubes into
    a single element. I think it makes the mic less important since the acoustics boost the signal quite a bit.

    https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/281/really-weird-diy-shotgun-mic-old-yes-but-i-just-found-it-again

    The OP's setup would only need a 2 foot tube to reach 300 Hz so rather smaller than shown.

    A parabolic reflector also can greatly improve the sensitivity of the mic.


    That shotgun mic is where this all started (and might end up). It does
    use only a single condensor mic no longer available, but I'm sure can
    be much improved on now.

    I think the directivity is also an important if not more detail of the parabolic, or the shotgun.

    What the commercial companies sell as "shotgun" uses slots in the side to allow multipath to reduce off center noises from reaching the mic. That has no gain. The parabolic definitely has gain. The multi-tube shotgun might have gain based on the
    resonances of the tubes. How many tubes you need depends on the frequency range (which you have restricted to voice) and the Q of the resonances (spacing of the resonance peaks). The higher the Q, the more gain, but also the need for more tubes to
    cover the frequency range without excessive ripple.

    In one of the posts I read someone claimed the acoustic combining of the multiple tubes ruins the resonances. I'm not sure how directional the multi-tube shotgun really is, but as long as it has gain, you are money ahead even with a little selectivity
    if your noise floor is set by your microphone.

    I guess this would be a bit like a tuned loop antenna, getting gain from the resonance.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sat Feb 19 18:43:34 2022
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:52:37 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 5:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:40:29 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/19/2022 12:33 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    Is there a way to add a simple RC filter in the gain control circuit >>>> (fixed gain) of a INA217 audio amp.

    Circuit shown here.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjixn4jq464i1fj/INA217%20Gain%20control.jpg?dl=0
    Yes, I'm aware I can reduce the input caps to cause High pass
    filtering, I would like a low pass filter

    on the input, but I don't want to add noise. So, I may add it on the >>>> output. 300Hz to 3300Hz.
    Often filters are in front of significant gain stages to prevent overloading the state from out of band noise. A low pass filter only requires series resistors and capacitor between the inputs (after the filter) or to ground. Across the input pair
    gives differential filtering. Capacitors to ground give common mode filtering. The series resistors give a voltage reduction when paired to the existing input resistors R1, R2, R3, R4 and R5.

    What do you know about your noise?
    Not really, I just want low noise and high gain. What is high gain, I
    don't know yet, I'm building a big ear.

    I have experimented with an amp that has a gain of 3500 and could hear
    the clock ticking and every car that went by.

    I wrapped the mic in foam and put it in a lead pipe. I didn't hear those >> things but I did hear hiss. I swapped the mic for resistors

    but no longer remember what value my ears said had the equal noise.

    Do you have noise?
    Sure, but I can't quantify it.
    I mean, do you know what you wish to prevent, details?
    Because of the high gain, noise is also amplified. I have been told
    that the mic I have chose is noisy, but for now it's what I have.

    AOM5024

    https://www.puiaudio.com/media/SpecSheet/AOM-5024L-HD-R.pdf
    I'm simply trying to make a low noise audio amplifier. It is probably
    all over kill if I make decent filters to roll off both ends.

    But, that is OK.
    Ok, you want something to filter noise, but don't know what. You don't know anything about your noise. At least you know something about the mic. But it sounds like your mic is actually pretty good, producing about the same noise as a resistor. How
    much better do you think it's going to get?

    The only advantage a filter will do is remove noise outside your passband which is not a lot. 300-3000 Hz vs 20-20,000, so about 1/3rd the noise?


    What is the gain of your amplifier?
    Probably an adjustable max of 4000 voltage gain.
    What is the level of your input signal?
    mic input, other than that, I don't know the max of that.
    What is the level of the output signal?
    Output to drive headphones.
    What is the signal source complex impedance? What is your load?
    I'm not sure what all the input circuit is for. I suspect this design uses more than one type of signal source. It would be nice to actually understand the details. It makes a difference.
    I think the 48V option is for a mic that needs a high DC bias. If you are using an electret mic, you probably can simplify the circuit a lot. For one thing, you don't need differential inputs. Makes the filtering simpler. Use a battery for the
    electret bias to avoid any added noise on the input.


    Here is my proposed circuit,

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0
    Just wondering if I can get some filtering in the Gain resistor circuit.
    If you mean RG, no. Well, the answer is yes, but it will be high pass which you don't need.

    Remove C2. Don't short it, disconnect it entirely. It is doing nothing. The output filter can be 1k and 47 nF/150 nF, slightly more convenient numbers, but whatever. The R4/R5 value loads the mic which is now a much higher input impedance reducing
    the gain. Maybe instead of using a 14k resistor to 15V, use a divider pair with a lower parallel resistance and a 3V reference. Then R4/R5 aren't so much a problem. Or increase the values of R4/R5. I'm not sure if they have recommended values for some
    reason. Check the amp data sheet. Input bias is usually a factor, but your design is AC so maybe not important.

    OK, now I'm laughing at my self about C2. I know there are suggested
    ways to connect an unbalanced mic to a balanced input.

    As I understand it, the biggest reason for that is to prevent problems
    with long cables. I won't have long cables. I still don't really
    understand, if

    I need a better mic connection circuit for unbal to bal or if this just fine. I was going for lower values in the mic circuit for lower noise,

    and the manufacturer of the low noise chip says, 2.2kΩ so I left them. I was thinking it was some type of bias for the input. Still do.

    On the 14kΩ, it biases the mic at about 1000nV which is near
    recommended, not sure why 3V and 2.2k would be better, but not opposed

    to adding another resistor. Just would like to know the advantage or disadvantage.

    I know why you picked 14k. The issue is it upsets the balance of the two inputs, but that is typically a DC issue with the bias currents, so maybe it's not important here. However, the 14k resistor sets the mic impedance. The 14k and 2.2 k act as a
    divider, losing almost 90% of the signal strength. That sounds like a bad idea. If you are worried about the noise in the resistor, I think this would be a bigger issue since it makes the resistor noise a lot more significant compared to the signal.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 19 18:51:17 2022
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

    ========================

    ** The ass has all the guile and incorrigible cheek of a pedofile.


    What the commercial companies sell as "shotgun"

    ** Is true in name only - it merely looks like one.

    uses slots in the side to allow multipath to reduce off center noises from reaching the mic. That has no gain.

    ** It has SFA directionality ( compared to cardiod ) under 2KHz too.

    All audiophool fantasy - no fact.


    ..... Phil

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to amdx@knology.net on Sun Feb 20 07:21:29 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1@dont-email.me>:

     Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.

    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD !

    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.

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  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Feb 20 02:00:35 2022
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 07:22:33 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1...@dont-email.me>:
    Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.
    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD !

    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good. This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.
    There is no point in using the 14k pullup resistor and higher bias voltage
    (of up to a maximum of about 9V) UNLESS the mic is fed directly into the virtual earth of an op-amp with a very short connection. The op-amp that has been
    selected is over-complicated for this application as it has been designed for differential amplification. This makes it harder to use than a simple op-amp. There are plenty of better choices.
    For example, the Texas Instruments OPA1641 (single) or OPA1642 (dual)
    are low-noise J-FET input op-amps that would work well from a 9V battery
    which could also provide the mic bias voltage. There are plenty
    of other good choices, some with lower power consumption and/or
    lower cost. The circuit can be very simple - as has already been suggested. Capacitor couple the junction of the mic and pullup resistor to the -ve input of the op-amp. Keep the connection very short. Select a feedback resistor
    from output to -ve input to give the gain you want. (I did the calculation for you a while back.) Shunt the feedback resistor with a capacitor to low-pass filter the output. Set the +ve input of the op-amp to a mid-point voltage obtained with a pair of high-value resistors between ground and power.
    Decouple the mid-point with a large capacitor to ground.
    If you have feedback problems from fluctuations in the power supply voltage getting into the mic bias circuit, buffer the mid-point supply with the other half
    of a dual op-amp configured as a unity gain buffer and feed the mic bias resistor
    from the output of that buffer. By doing this you get a very well filtered bias
    supply. Reduce the mic bias resistor to work with the reduced supply. The resistor
    can be calculated on the basis that this mic draws about 0.5mA and works well when the voltage at the junction of the mic and bias resistor is about 2V.
    So if you have a total supply of 9V and use a buffered mid-point supply for the mic
    of 4.5V then the best bias resistor would be about 5k.

    John

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Walliker on Sun Feb 20 10:30:45 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 02:00:35 -0800 (PST)) it happened John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in <dfe731fc-67bf-4ebc-abe2-466e4572f2ean@googlegroups.com>:

    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 07:22:33 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx
    <am...@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1...@dont-email.me>:
    Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.
    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD !

    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a >sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good. This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.
    There is no point in using the 14k pullup resistor and higher bias voltage >(of up to a maximum of about 9V) UNLESS the mic is fed directly into the >virtual earth of an op-amp with a very short connection. The op-amp that has been
    selected is over-complicated for this application as it has been designed for >differential amplification. This makes it harder to use than a simple op-amp. >There are plenty of better choices.
    For example, the Texas Instruments OPA1641 (single) or OPA1642 (dual)
    are low-noise J-FET input op-amps that would work well from a 9V battery >which could also provide the mic bias voltage. There are plenty
    of other good choices, some with lower power consumption and/or
    lower cost. The circuit can be very simple - as has already been suggested. >Capacitor couple the junction of the mic and pullup resistor to the -ve input >of the op-amp. Keep the connection very short. Select a feedback resistor >from output to -ve input to give the gain you want. (I did the calculation for
    you a while back.) Shunt the feedback resistor with a capacitor to low-pass >filter the output. Set the +ve input of the op-amp to a mid-point voltage >obtained with a pair of high-value resistors between ground and power. >Decouple the mid-point with a large capacitor to ground.
    If you have feedback problems from fluctuations in the power supply voltage >getting into the mic bias circuit, buffer the mid-point supply with the other half
    of a dual op-amp configured as a unity gain buffer and feed the mic bias resistor
    from the output of that buffer. By doing this you get a very well filtered bias
    supply. Reduce the mic bias resistor to work with the reduced supply. The resistor
    can be calculated on the basis that this mic draws about 0.5mA and works well >when the voltage at the junction of the mic and bias resistor is about 2V.
    So if you have a total supply of 9V and use a buffered mid-point supply for the mic
    of 4.5V then the best bias resistor would be about 5k.

    John

    Agreed, electret mikes are cool, there is even one on one of the mars rovers,
    I have heard the sound from the wind on mars.
    https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mars-rover
    tooks them some tohide it is a normal electret:
    https://www.dpamicrophones.com/pencil/4006-omnidirectional-microphone
    Cartridge type Pre-polarized condenser
    :-) to get those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    As to filtering, using the mike outside gives you, if it catches wind, huge low frequency variations
    (maybe up to a volt pp on the mike output) so a bandpass is not a bad idea.
    No idea _what_ he exactly wants to measure, all depends on that of course,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Feb 20 08:53:33 2022
    On 2/20/2022 4:30 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 02:00:35 -0800 (PST)) it happened John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in <dfe731fc-67bf-4ebc-abe2-466e4572f2ean@googlegroups.com>:

    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 07:22:33 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx
    <am...@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1...@dont-email.me>:
    Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.
    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD ! >>>
    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.
    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a >> sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good. This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.
    There is no point in using the 14k pullup resistor and higher bias voltage >> (of up to a maximum of about 9V) UNLESS the mic is fed directly into the
    virtual earth of an op-amp with a very short connection. The op-amp that has been
    selected is over-complicated for this application as it has been designed for
    differential amplification. This makes it harder to use than a simple op-amp.
    There are plenty of better choices.
    For example, the Texas Instruments OPA1641 (single) or OPA1642 (dual)
    are low-noise J-FET input op-amps that would work well from a 9V battery
    which could also provide the mic bias voltage. There are plenty
    of other good choices, some with lower power consumption and/or
    lower cost. The circuit can be very simple - as has already been suggested. >> Capacitor couple the junction of the mic and pullup resistor to the -ve input
    of the op-amp. Keep the connection very short. Select a feedback resistor
    from output to -ve input to give the gain you want. (I did the calculation for
    you a while back.) Shunt the feedback resistor with a capacitor to low-pass >> filter the output. Set the +ve input of the op-amp to a mid-point voltage >> obtained with a pair of high-value resistors between ground and power.
    Decouple the mid-point with a large capacitor to ground.
    If you have feedback problems from fluctuations in the power supply voltage >> getting into the mic bias circuit, buffer the mid-point supply with the other half
    of a dual op-amp configured as a unity gain buffer and feed the mic bias resistor
    from the output of that buffer. By doing this you get a very well filtered bias
    supply. Reduce the mic bias resistor to work with the reduced supply. The resistor
    can be calculated on the basis that this mic draws about 0.5mA and works well
    when the voltage at the junction of the mic and bias resistor is about 2V. >> So if you have a total supply of 9V and use a buffered mid-point supply for the mic
    of 4.5V then the best bias resistor would be about 5k.

    John
    Agreed, electret mikes are cool, there is even one on one of the mars rovers, I have heard the sound from the wind on mars.
    https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mars-rover
    tooks them some tohide it is a normal electret:
    https://www.dpamicrophones.com/pencil/4006-omnidirectional-microphone
    Cartridge type Pre-polarized condenser
    :-) to get those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    As to filtering, using the mike outside gives you, if it catches wind, huge low frequency variations
    (maybe up to a volt pp on the mike output) so a bandpass is not a bad idea. No idea _what_ he exactly wants to measure, all depends on that of course,

     If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.

                                                       Mikek


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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Feb 20 10:43:16 2022
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.

    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large. An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone. Just mount your preamp
    amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide your low pass and high
    pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sun Feb 20 14:06:13 2022
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-) >>
    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.

    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.

    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the
    SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

     That Ebay PCB is the one I have.

    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound
    on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.

    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

     Just need to do something

                                         Mikek



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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Feb 20 12:08:58 2022
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Feb 20 13:40:49 2022
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.

    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound
    on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.

    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something lower.


    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

    Just need to do something

    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit do you want to use?

    --

    Rick C.

    -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sun Feb 20 16:04:51 2022
    On 2/20/2022 3:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the
    SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.
    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound
    on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.
    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something lower.


    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

    Just need to do something
    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit do you want to use?

     The only thing I'm doing noise is to see if I get less noise with in
    other preamp. Just more experimentation than anything.

     I see Phil is still posting, has he said anything good that you want
    to pass along. I'm not reading his posts.


                                                         Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Sun Feb 20 15:47:40 2022
    John Walliker wrote:
    ================

    Quite apart from the electronics, I do think that pointing something that looks
    like a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.


    ** Go ahead Mikek - make my day .....



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Feb 20 15:31:02 2022
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 22:05:02 UTC, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration >>>> and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and >>>> out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the
    SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.
    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound >> on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.
    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something lower.


    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

    Just need to do something
    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit do you want to use?

    The only thing I'm doing noise is to see if I get less noise with in
    other preamp. Just more experimentation than anything.

    I see Phil is still posting, has he said anything good that you want
    to pass along. I'm not reading his posts.
    Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    That amplifier does NOT have a gain of 3500. That figure is its open-loop gain before negative feedback.

    There is no need to buy a special pcb for this. The circuits you need are so simple that you could easily wire them up in "dead bug" mode on a scrap of copper clad FR4 laminate. Any reasonable pre-amp circuit intended for use
    with an electret microphone will give you good performance. The mic you are using gives a high output already compared with many alternatives.

    High-pass filtering at the INPUT to the pre-amp at maybe 100 to 300 Hz will be useful to stop the pre-amp from overloading on wind noise.
    Quite apart from the electronics, I do think that pointing something that looks like a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Sun Feb 20 16:10:41 2022
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good.

    This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.



    ** That 14 dBA spl figure seems fake.

    This seems to be the same capsule:

    https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/CMA-4544PF-W.pdf

    The sellers claim -60dB rel to 1 Pa = 94dB A spl.
    So the self noise is equal to 34 dB A spl.

    Which seems about right for a 10mm dia, $1.50 electret capsule.
    This might explain the nutty OP's issue.



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Sun Feb 20 18:27:37 2022
    On 2/20/2022 5:31 PM, John Walliker wrote:
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 22:05:02 UTC, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration >>>>>> and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and >>>>>> out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the
    SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.
    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound >>>> on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.
    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something lower. >>>

    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

    Just need to do something
    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit do you want to use?

    The only thing I'm doing noise is to see if I get less noise with in
    other preamp. Just more experimentation than anything.

    I see Phil is still posting, has he said anything good that you want
    to pass along. I'm not reading his posts.
    Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
    That amplifier does NOT have a gain of 3500. That figure is its open-loop gain
    before negative feedback.
     I measured it. You're right I I exaggerated a bit, it was 3,400 plus , driving 64Ω headphones.

    There is no need to buy a special pcb for this. The circuits you need are so simple that you could easily wire them up in "dead bug" mode on a scrap of copper clad FR4 laminate. Any reasonable pre-amp circuit intended for use with an electret microphone will give you good performance. The mic you are using gives a high output already compared with many alternatives.

     $3.75 for the TS472 Populated PCB and $4.75 for the populated SSM2167
    PCB includes the shipping.

     Can't do much better than those prices.

     The INA217 PCB was more expensive for an unpopulated PCB at $15 with shipping, I was swayed by the low noise

    nomenclature.



    High-pass filtering at the INPUT to the pre-amp at maybe 100 to 300 Hz will be
    useful to stop the pre-amp from overloading on wind noise.
    Quite apart from the electronics, I do think that pointing something that looks
    like a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

     Maybe it should be loaded. The police have no interest anymore, as
    they don't deal anymore! But the guy that

    delivers twice a week is dealing. He has a handicap plate, I guess he is
    just supplementing his disability check.

    They don't hide it, a little chit chat, the money transfer, a little
    more chit chat and drug hand off and he's off to the next delivery.

    Two women have died of ODs and one died of a brain hemorrhage after
    getting a beating, spent over a week in

    a coma and more time in the hospital. Came right back home to the
    abusive situation and died from the hemorrhage

    about 3 weeks later. No one went to jail for any of this. The fire
    truck, and ambulances have showed up more than

    10 times for ODs. The cops dozens of times. After the narcan, they
    usually refuse to go with the ambulance.

    The coroner has showed up twice, took away a white zippered bag on the
    gurney.

    Just 3 houses in my subdivision of about 97 homes are a problem.

     I happen to have one next door and another across the street. It's a
    Soap Opera.

     Sometime I'll tell you about the other neighbors, young lady passing
    out at a stoplight with here six month old in the car,

    a gun in her purse and opioids. But that's another story to go with the
    50 gram bust. :-)

                                       Mikek

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Sun Feb 20 20:31:13 2022
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 5:05:02 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first iteration >>>> and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in and >>>> out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I
    threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide
    your low pass and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the
    SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.
    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud sound >> on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.
    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something lower.


    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add
    after the preamps.

    Just need to do something
    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit do you want to use?

    The only thing I'm doing noise is to see if I get less noise with in
    other preamp. Just more experimentation than anything.

    I see Phil is still posting, has he said anything good that you want
    to pass along. I'm not reading his posts.

    I don't really read his posts either. Once he gets into IP (Insane Phil) mode, he usually doesn't return. He just wanders around the lamp post mumbling and ranting a bit. It's a shame really. I get the sense that somewhere in there is a decent guy.
    He just can't handle anything remotely like criticism or I don't know what really. He just goes off at the slightest provocation. Kinda like old dynamite.

    I don't think you are going to see much improvement from your filtering, but give it a try and see what happens. You can try running some tests. Try using your PC to do a frequency sweep before and after. That will verify your corner frequencies.
    Parasitic elements can change the actual results.

    --

    Rick C.

    -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Walliker on Mon Feb 21 06:04:15 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in <153b314d-6fb5-497a-8c8a-76d978f18a08n@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Mon Feb 21 00:40:22 2022
    On Monday, 21 February 2022 at 00:10:53 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good.

    This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.


    ** That 14 dBA spl figure seems fake.

    This seems to be the same capsule:

    https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/CMA-4544PF-W.pdf

    The sellers claim -60dB rel to 1 Pa = 94dB A spl.
    So the self noise is equal to 34 dB A spl.

    Which seems about right for a 10mm dia, $1.50 electret capsule.
    This might explain the nutty OP's issue.

    ..... Phil
    The mic you linked to is from a different manufacturer with a
    similar name, although such products are sometimes rebadged.
    PUI do make very specific claims about the noise performance so I
    would be surprised if they were significantly exaggerated. I have used
    quite a lot of the AOM-5024 mics and have found them to be very
    good. I will check the noise floor some time when I have the
    right equipment set up.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Mon Feb 21 01:12:36 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 7:40:33 PM UTC+11, John Walliker wrote:
    On Monday, 21 February 2022 at 00:10:53 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a
    sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good.

    This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.


    ** That 14 dBA spl figure seems fake.

    This seems to be the same capsule:

    https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/CMA-4544PF-W.pdf

    The sellers claim -60dB rel to 1 Pa = 94dB A spl.
    So the self noise is equal to 34 dB A spl.

    Which seems about right for a 10mm dia, $1.50 electret capsule.
    This might explain the nutty OP's issue.

    ..... Phil

    The mic you linked to is from a different manufacturer with a
    similar name, although such products are sometimes rebadged.

    ** You bet.

    PUI do make very specific claims about the noise performance so I
    would be surprised if they were significantly exaggerated.

    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.





    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Mon Feb 21 03:22:33 2022
    On Monday, 21 February 2022 at 09:12:48 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 7:40:33 PM UTC+11, John Walliker wrote:
    On Monday, 21 February 2022 at 00:10:53 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a
    sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good.

    This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.


    ** That 14 dBA spl figure seems fake.

    This seems to be the same capsule:

    https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/CMA-4544PF-W.pdf

    The sellers claim -60dB rel to 1 Pa = 94dB A spl.
    So the self noise is equal to 34 dB A spl.

    Which seems about right for a 10mm dia, $1.50 electret capsule.
    This might explain the nutty OP's issue.

    ..... Phil

    The mic you linked to is from a different manufacturer with a
    similar name, although such products are sometimes rebadged.
    ** You bet.
    PUI do make very specific claims about the noise performance so I
    would be surprised if they were significantly exaggerated.
    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.

    When I visited the UK Knowles factory before they moved it to the far east I was shown the test rig they used for measuring microphone noise.
    It was a large block of steel, about 30cm on each side with a cavity inside. The lid was a thick steel plate which could slide over the top of the cavity
    to give access. The whole thing was supported on air-filled rubber tubes. Using a vacuum would give an artificially low noise level as there would
    be no brownian movement of air molecules. According to Knowles,
    about half the noise of a good electret mic comes from the FET and about
    half comes from brownian motion of the air molecules.
    There are other 10mm electret capsules that claim a similar noise level,
    for example the Primo EM272 and EM273.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Mon Feb 21 11:41:40 2022
    John Walliker wrote:
    ---------------------------------

    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.

    When I visited the UK Knowles factory

    ** They make tiny hearing aid mics - right?
    Very different game.

    Using a vacuum would give an artificially low noise level as there would
    be no brownian movement of air molecules.

    ** Nonsense - no mic made for audio gets anywhere near that level.


    According to Knowles,
    about half the noise of a good electret mic comes from the FET and about
    half comes from brownian motion of the air molecules.

    ** Totally false.

    A vacuum eliminates all sound transmission to the diaphragm - so is a fair test.


    There are other 10mm electret capsules that claim a similar noise level,
    for example the Primo EM272 and EM273.


    ** FYI

    Condenser mic self noise is mostly low frequency, unlike that from dynamic mics which is close to white noise - rising 6dB with each octave.
    As a result, the "A" weighting curve has a much bigger effect on condenser models than dynamics.
    There are some games being played here with specs.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    Look a few up.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to bitrex is a cunthead on Mon Feb 21 13:35:42 2022
    bitrex is a cunthead wrote:

    ==================
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at least one party participating is aware.

    ** Nothing to do with what I said above.

    The OP wants to remotely monitor a private conversation.
    Illegal anywhere.

    FOAD you bullshitting POS.


    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Mon Feb 21 16:18:27 2022
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-) >>

    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil


    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at
    least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess.
    He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing
    a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Mon Feb 21 17:08:52 2022
    On 2/20/2022 7:27 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 5:31 PM, John Walliker wrote:
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 22:05:02 UTC, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:06:25 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 12:43 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:53:45 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    If that happens I may need a sharper filter. I need a first
    iteration
    and adjust from there.

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the
    street. :-)

    And then what ever else. May need to be able to switch filters in >>>>>>> and
    out at some point

    to make it more versatile.
    If you really want to listen to drug deals, the parabolic
    reflector is what you want. It doesn't even need to be large.
    An old satellite dish would do a decent job and be more
    inconspicuous than a typical reflector microphone.
    Yes, I'm kicking myself, I had 3 of them and in a recent clean up, I >>>>> threw the all out. I'm now looking for another one.
    Just mount your preamp amp next to the electret mic. I second the
    idea of ditching the differential amp, but there's really nothing
    wrong with it other than being hard to modify. A single, simple op >>>>>> amp can be the preamp next to the mic and provide your low pass
    and high pass filtering with one pole each. The main concern on
    the preamp is to not overload the preamp. Then you can add more
    filtering on the main amp to prevent that amp from overloading if
    needed.

    Here is an interesting preamp candidate with compression.

    file:///C:/Users/Rick/AppData/Local/Temp/ssm2167.pdf
    Yes, I ordered a cornucopia of mic amps! I have on hand PCBs with the >>>>> SSM2167, TS472 and the INA217, and then a Headphone driver amp
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/143774994752

    About $8 from ebay. You can adjust C1 or C2 for the high pass
    filter and add a low pass filter between the mic and the amp.

    The compression will help to hear quiet sounds without louder
    sounds overloading the amps.

    That Ebay PCB is the one I have.
    So what is wrong with that circuit?


    Yes, I liked the idea of compression, I had a few issues with loud
    sound
    on my ears using the Gain of 3,500 amp I built first.

    Here's the 3,500 Voltage gain amp.

    https://sound-au.com/project13.htm
    Anything I do now, is to compare to that amp.
    If the only problem is too much gain, adjust the gain to something
    lower.


    Although, I now have the headphone amp which has a gain of 4 too add >>>>> after the preamps.

    Just need to do something
    That doesn't narrow the field much. What problems are you having
    that you need to solve? Which circuit are you using? Which circuit
    do you want to use?

    The only thing I'm doing noise is to see if I get less noise with in
    other preamp. Just more experimentation than anything.

      I see Phil is still posting, has he said anything good that you want
    to pass along. I'm not reading his posts.
    Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
    That amplifier does NOT have a gain of 3500.  That figure is its
    open-loop gain
    before negative feedback.
     I measured it. You're right I I exaggerated a bit, it was 3,400 plus , driving 64Ω headphones.

    There is no need to buy a special pcb for this.  The circuits you need
    are so
    simple that you could easily wire them up in "dead bug" mode on a
    scrap of
    copper clad FR4 laminate.  Any reasonable pre-amp circuit intended for
    use
    with an electret microphone will give you good performance.  The mic
    you are
    using gives a high output already compared with many alternatives.

     $3.75 for the TS472 Populated PCB and $4.75 for the populated SSM2167
    PCB includes the shipping.

     Can't do much better than those prices.

     The INA217 PCB was more expensive for an unpopulated PCB at $15 with shipping, I was swayed by the low noise

    nomenclature.



    High-pass filtering at the INPUT to the pre-amp at maybe 100 to 300 Hz
    will be
    useful to stop the pre-amp from overloading on wind noise.
    Quite apart from the electronics, I do think that pointing something
    that looks
    like a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is
    maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

     Maybe it should be loaded. The police have no interest anymore, as
    they don't deal anymore! But the guy that

    delivers twice a week is dealing. He has a handicap plate, I guess he is
    just supplementing his disability check.

    They don't hide it, a little chit chat, the money transfer, a little
    more chit chat and drug hand off and he's off to the next delivery.
    Probably best to be confident it's not just the Uber Eats deliveryman
    you have "apprehended", here. Did they hand them a large bag? Like a bag
    that had the name of a Chinese restaurant on the side?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Mon Feb 21 16:41:14 2022
    On 2/21/2022 4:35 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    bitrex is a cunthead wrote:

    ==================
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at
    least one party participating is aware.

    ** Nothing to do with what I said above.

    The OP wants to remotely monitor a private conversation.
    Illegal anywhere.

    FOAD you bullshitting POS.


    ...... Phil



    Phil's not quite as unhappy as a drug dealer would be if he caught amdx
    wearing a wire but we're getting warmer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 14:47:23 2022
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that

    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be delivered to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Mon Feb 21 18:01:19 2022
    On 2/21/2022 5:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that

    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be delivered to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...

    Yeah, amdx likely doesn't live in the city or the 'hood for that matter.
    Some lady in a town house uses Snapchat to contact the dealer and dealer
    feels safe enough. Not entirely safe by any means, but safer.

    Maybe amdx's bougie neighbors should get off the shit, doing drugs is a
    bad idea, "personal responsibility" and all that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Feb 21 17:19:15 2022
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in <153b314d-6fb5-497a-8c8a-76d978f18a08n@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)


    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Mon Feb 21 15:35:54 2022
    On Monday, 21 February 2022 at 19:41:52 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    ---------------------------------

    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.

    When I visited the UK Knowles factory
    ** They make tiny hearing aid mics - right?
    Very different game.

    They do make hearing aid mics, but they make (slightly) larger ones too.

    Using a vacuum would give an artificially low noise level as there would
    be no brownian movement of air molecules.
    ** Nonsense - no mic made for audio gets anywhere near that level.
    According to Knowles,
    about half the noise of a good electret mic comes from the FET and about half comes from brownian motion of the air molecules.
    ** Totally false.

    I'm just repeating what I was told. It might be wrong, but why would they make it up?
    However, the relative importance of the different noise sources will
    vary strongly with microphone diameter, so we might both be right
    depending on the mic size.

    A vacuum eliminates all sound transmission to the diaphragm - so is a fair test.
    Only if your assertion that brownian motion is negligible is true. Mics are also
    sensitive to acceleration, so there would still be a need to connect with mechanically
    filtered wires.
    There are other 10mm electret capsules that claim a similar noise level, for example the Primo EM272 and EM273.

    ** FYI

    Condenser mic self noise is mostly low frequency, unlike that from dynamic mics which is close to white noise - rising 6dB with each octave.
    As a result, the "A" weighting curve has a much bigger effect on condenser models than dynamics.
    There are some games being played here with specs.

    Most manufacturers will specify their product in a way that makes it look good. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with using A-weighting as it is intended to give an approximation to the varying audibility of the noise
    with frequency. Ambient noise is usually much higher at low frequencies too, so poorer low frequency performance from a mic may well not be so noticeable.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    Look a few up.

    The first mic I looked at is the Sony ECM100-N which is a small omni-directional electret mic.
    Noise floor is 21db(A) or less. So Sony do use A-weighting for their noise specifications.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Mon Feb 21 16:16:01 2022
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.

    When I visited the UK Knowles factory
    ** They make tiny hearing aid mics - right?
    Very different game.
    They do make hearing aid mics, but they make (slightly) larger ones too.

    ** Yawnnnnnn.....

    Using a vacuum would give an artificially low noise level as there would be no brownian movement of air molecules.
    ** Nonsense - no mic made for audio gets anywhere near that level.

    According to Knowles,
    about half the noise of a good electret mic comes from the FET and about half comes from brownian motion of the air molecules.
    ** Totally false.

    I'm just repeating what I was told.

    ** Not worth posting, cos only YOU know about it.

    However, the relative importance of the different noise sources will
    vary strongly with microphone diameter, so we might both be right
    depending on the mic size.

    ** Yep. Exactly what I posted. Tiny "in ear" mics are not the topic.

    A vacuum eliminates all sound transmission to the diaphragm - so is a fair test.

    Only if your assertion that brownian motion is negligible is true.


    ** It is, been dealing with REAL mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.
    Self noise is always tested with a low noise pre-amp.
    Only large diaphragm condensers are truely quiet.



    Mics are also sensitive to acceleration,

    ** Wot a pedant you are.
    " It it might be true - therefore it is" nonsense.


    Condenser mic self noise is mostly low frequency, unlike that from dynamic mics which is close to white noise - rising 6dB with each octave.
    As a result, the "A" weighting curve has a much bigger effect on condenser models than dynamics.
    There arsome games being played here with specs.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    Look a few up.

    The first mic I looked at is the Sony ECM100-N which is a small omni-directional electret mic.
    Noise floor is 21db(A) or less.

    ** So not 14.

    " Games are being played here with specs".



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Mon Feb 21 18:55:03 2022
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be delivered to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...



     No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

     to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I
    said, two women have OD,

     I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Rick Cunt is Anencephalic on Mon Feb 21 19:02:58 2022
    Rick Cunt is Anencephalic wrote:
    =======================
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    I'm not a lawyer,

    ** Correct.

    YOU a tedious, know nothing, fucking wanker !!!


    but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is
    no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner.

    ** Stupid and totally false assumption.


    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution

    ** Shame that breaking listening devices laws is CRIMINAL !!!

    by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance.

    ** ROTFLMAO - that is purest insanity.

    That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal.

    ** No it fucking isn't.

    If this were not true, it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas.

    ** Such cameras do NOT record sound - cos it is a criminal offence.

    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine.

    ** No you won't.



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Feb 21 18:42:24 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:18:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess.
    He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing
    a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy

    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner. However, a bit of searching turned up conflicting information regarding this.

    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance. That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal. If this were not true,
    it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas.

    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine. This alone will probably get rid of the druggies.

    --

    Rick C.

    +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Mon Feb 21 22:29:49 2022
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John >>>> Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying
    is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time >>> weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


     No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

     to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I said, two women have OD,

     I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.


    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked
    up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Feb 21 19:55:56 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John >>>> Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying
    is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time >>> weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked
    up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    --

    Rick C.

    +-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Feb 21 23:01:38 2022
    On 2/21/2022 9:42 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:18:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at
    least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess.
    He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing
    a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy

    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner. However, a bit of searching turned up conflicting information regarding this.

    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance. That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal. If this were not
    true, it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas.

    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine. This alone will probably get rid of the druggies.


    In every state AFAIK using an "audio enhancement device" to eavesdrop on
    a conversation, even a real-world non-electronic one, falls under
    wiretapping laws and the one-party/two-party rules apply, depending on
    state either one or both parties actually participating in the
    conversation must be aware the audio is being electronically monitored
    and/or recorded.

    Photo/video is different, you can even use a telephoto lens to snap
    pictures of people and so long as they're in a place where there's no "reasonable expectation of privacy" like out on the street or on a
    public beach or something, this isn't illegal. Paparazzi do it all the time.

    Maybe amdx should learn to read lips.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Feb 21 23:08:15 2022
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John >>>>>> Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time >>>>> weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts. >>>
    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked
    up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.


    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to user@example.net on Tue Feb 22 04:25:02 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:19:15 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <EdUQJ.42808$Mpg8.35743@fx34.iad>:

    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a-8c8a-76d978f18a08n@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)


    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that

    Been a while since I was in Amsterdam, grew up there and later had a TV repair shop there,
    but remember walking near Leidseplein and people (sellers) coming up to me.
    In the bars and coffee shops there in the side-streets you can make any deal you want,
    You are _expected_ to buy.
    Not much gun violence.
    Some coffee shops were closed because of corona, but now things are slowly opening again.
    I don't use any drugs myself, no need, but if somebody wants it it is their business.
    OTOH I have seen the bad it can do to people too.
    Back in the seventies we all used things, hashish, LSD, cocaine, marijuana, There are a lot of modern synthetic drugs I know nothing about, some are dangerous.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to amdx@knology.net on Tue Feb 22 04:40:55 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Feb 2022 18:55:03 -0600) it happened amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in <sv1c98$ace$1@dont-email.me>:

     No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

     to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I
    said, two women have OD,

     I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.

    I had a similar thing in a shed behind my house.
    I experimented with 4 piezo tweeters and a 50 W amp and put 22 kHz on it.
    Does not only drive away mosquitos.
    Little kids can hear it, bigger kids not, but it had effect.
    But I also went to the owner of that shed and asked him to interfere, that worked.

    All a bit my fault perhaps, used to play good music really loud.
    My house was strait across the street from the village bar,
    I liked it, much activity.
    In an other place I lived above a bar for many years.
    Late at night we'd sit in my room and smoke and play records.
    Clothes smelled like it at next day at work, finally made me stop that.
    We called it 'modern times'.

    Big cars, music, drugs.. what's new?

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Feb 21 23:15:38 2022
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John >>>>>> Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time >>>>> weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts. >>>
    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked
    up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.


    Sounds like some real hill billy shit going down in suburbia wherever
    he's at, I'm glad my neighbor's biggest vices tend to be stuff like
    putting their fuckin' Alpina B7 through a fence cuz wifey forgot which
    way was forward. Again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Feb 21 23:42:57 2022
    On 2/21/2022 11:25 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:19:15 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <EdUQJ.42808$Mpg8.35743@fx34.iad>:

    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a-8c8a-76d978f18a08n@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John

    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)


    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that

    Been a while since I was in Amsterdam, grew up there and later had a TV repair shop there,
    but remember walking near Leidseplein and people (sellers) coming up to me. In the bars and coffee shops there in the side-streets you can make any deal you want,
    You are _expected_ to buy.
    Not much gun violence.
    Some coffee shops were closed because of corona, but now things are slowly opening again.
    I don't use any drugs myself, no need, but if somebody wants it it is their business.
    OTOH I have seen the bad it can do to people too.
    Back in the seventies we all used things, hashish, LSD, cocaine, marijuana, There are a lot of modern synthetic drugs I know nothing about, some are dangerous.


    Methamphetamine and synthetic opioids like Fentanyl are a plague of
    their own, you don't have to search very hard in the US to find someone
    who knows someone or knows someone who knows someone who's died from one
    of them. I have many nieces, nephews and cousins and already know of one
    who died far too young from this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Feb 21 21:44:18 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:01:51 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 9:42 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:18:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at >> least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess. >> He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing >> a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy

    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner. However, a bit of searching turned up conflicting information regarding this.

    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance. That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal. If this were not
    true, it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas.

    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine. This alone will probably get rid of the druggies.

    In every state AFAIK using an "audio enhancement device" to eavesdrop on
    a conversation, even a real-world non-electronic one, falls under wiretapping laws and the one-party/two-party rules apply, depending on
    state either one or both parties actually participating in the
    conversation must be aware the audio is being electronically monitored and/or recorded.

    By "audio enhancement device" you mean a microphone? That's all he is doing. If people are in a public place and are made aware of the recording, there is no illegality. That's what the sign does. If you don't read it that on you, just like any other
    sign, such as private property and no trespassing signs.


    Photo/video is different, you can even use a telephoto lens to snap
    pictures of people and so long as they're in a place where there's no "reasonable expectation of privacy" like out on the street or on a
    public beach or something, this isn't illegal. Paparazzi do it all the time.

    Maybe amdx should learn to read lips.

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Mon Feb 21 21:45:19 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.

    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.

    --

    Rick C.

    +++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 02:24:08 2022
    On 2/22/2022 12:44 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:01:51 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 9:42 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:18:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========

    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)


    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at >>>> least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess. >>>> He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing >>>> a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy

    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner. However, a bit of searching turned up conflicting information regarding this.

    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance. That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal. If this were not
    true, it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas. >>>
    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine. This alone will probably get rid of the druggies.

    In every state AFAIK using an "audio enhancement device" to eavesdrop on
    a conversation, even a real-world non-electronic one, falls under
    wiretapping laws and the one-party/two-party rules apply, depending on
    state either one or both parties actually participating in the
    conversation must be aware the audio is being electronically monitored
    and/or recorded.

    By "audio enhancement device" you mean a microphone? That's all he is doing. If people are in a public place and are made aware of the recording, there is no illegality. That's what the sign does. If you don't read it that on you, just like any
    other sign, such as private property and no trespassing signs.

    The party doing the electronic listening/audio recording must be at
    least one of the parties to the conversation; it's not enough to simply "inform" two random people that they're being listened to by a _third_
    party, any more than it's now legal for me to tap you and your boy
    and/or girlfriend's phones and listen in to some KINKY SHIT and because
    I will inform the two of you in writing I'm gonna do that.

    Only law enforcement can do that secretly-record-the-suspected-baddies-with-a-parabolic-mic-from-a-cleaner's-van shit, with a warrant.

    And it's definitely useless to put up a sign on your own property
    informing someone who's not even on your property they're being listened
    to, who the hell you think you are.


    Photo/video is different, you can even use a telephoto lens to snap
    pictures of people and so long as they're in a place where there's no
    "reasonable expectation of privacy" like out on the street or on a
    public beach or something, this isn't illegal. Paparazzi do it all the time. >>
    Maybe amdx should learn to read lips.

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 02:52:58 2022
    On 2/22/2022 12:45 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>>>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts. >>>>>
    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my >>>>> storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>>>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >>>> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>> else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.

    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.


    You've never lived on a street with some half-wits down the way who have
    house parties with 150 other half-wits roaming around drunk and doing
    drugs, firing bottle rockets off til 3 AM on a Sunday morning and people
    passed out on the lawn and such? Lived a charmed life if that so...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to user@example.net on Tue Feb 22 08:46:08 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Feb 22 03:55:04 2022
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 09:59:22 2022
    On 22/02/2022 09:55, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed.  Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. 
    There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not
    required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with
    the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted
    in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    That bit is key - the laws and regulations vary widely for different
    countries, and probably within countries (I'm sure that's the case for
    the USA at least).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to David Brown on Tue Feb 22 04:05:44 2022
    On 2/22/2022 3:59 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 22/02/2022 09:55, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed.  Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc.
    There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not
    required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with
    the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted
    in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    That bit is key - the laws and regulations vary widely for different countries, and probably within countries (I'm sure that's the case for
    the USA at least).


    Right, I know targeted audio recording of conversations is considered
    very much like wiretapping in the US but how e.g. non-specific AV
    recording of areas like with security cameras on private property is
    handled exactly, I'm unsure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 04:13:00 2022
    On 2/22/2022 4:05 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:59 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 22/02/2022 09:55, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed.  Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc.
    There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not >>>>>> required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations,
    they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a
    mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with
    the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted
    in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    That bit is key - the laws and regulations vary widely for different
    countries, and probably within countries (I'm sure that's the case for
    the USA at least).


    Right, I know targeted audio recording of conversations is considered
    very much like wiretapping in the US but how e.g. non-specific AV
    recording of areas like with security cameras on private property is
    handled exactly, I'm unsure.

    Or rather, all the US states are remarkably consistent on the first
    point at least.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 04:03:06 2022
    On 2/22/2022 3:55 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed.  Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc.
    There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not
    required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with
    the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted
    in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Oops, "statutes", rather. It's okay to record statues.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 20:48:41 2022
    On 22/2/22 7:55 pm, bitrex wrote:
    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Tried consulting mine, but they didn't answer. Might have been stoned I
    guess.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Feb 22 04:07:02 2022
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    ================

    Most modern security cameras have sound too,

    ** Massive LIE !!

    I have one like that.

    ** Bullshit.

    Fuck off you stinking WOG LAIR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to gnuarm.del...@gmail.com on Tue Feb 22 04:05:02 2022
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
    =========================


    I'm not a lawyer,

    ** So you have ZERO fucking idea whatsoever

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    If people are in a public place and are made aware of the recording,

    ** Not even faintly possible when using a long range and invisible mic.

    Go fuck a dead donkey you RABID ASD fucked NUT CASE !!!



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Tue Feb 22 04:20:32 2022
    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 00:16:12 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    =================

    ** Been dealing with mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    25 to 30 dB or so equivalent SPL is the norm.
    A 10mm dia one one is half the size of any of the above.

    FYI: there are two very reliable ways to test the self noise of a mic that has a pre-amp built in.

    1. Place it in a silent chamber - a heavy cast iron sphere with a good air seal sited in a quiet room.

    2. Place it in a vacuum.

    When I visited the UK Knowles factory
    ** They make tiny hearing aid mics - right?
    Very different game.
    They do make hearing aid mics, but they make (slightly) larger ones too.
    ** Yawnnnnnn.....
    Using a vacuum would give an artificially low noise level as there would
    be no brownian movement of air molecules.
    ** Nonsense - no mic made for audio gets anywhere near that level.

    According to Knowles,
    about half the noise of a good electret mic comes from the FET and about
    half comes from brownian motion of the air molecules.
    ** Totally false.

    I'm just repeating what I was told.
    ** Not worth posting, cos only YOU know about it.
    However, the relative importance of the different noise sources will
    vary strongly with microphone diameter, so we might both be right
    depending on the mic size.
    ** Yep. Exactly what I posted. Tiny "in ear" mics are not the topic.
    A vacuum eliminates all sound transmission to the diaphragm - so is a fair test.

    Only if your assertion that brownian motion is negligible is true.
    ** It is, been dealing with REAL mics, dynamic, true condenser and electrets for over 50 years.
    Self noise is always tested with a low noise pre-amp.
    Only large diaphragm condensers are truely quiet.
    Mics are also sensitive to acceleration,
    ** Wot a pedant you are.
    " It it might be true - therefore it is" nonsense.

    It is hardly nonsense. Handling noise is partly the result of sensitivity
    to acceleration. That is why mic capsules in hearing aids and many phones are mounted on a floppy rubber moulding.

    Condenser mic self noise is mostly low frequency, unlike that from dynamic mics which is close to white noise - rising 6dB with each octave.
    As a result, the "A" weighting curve has a much bigger effect on condenser models than dynamics.
    There arsome games being played here with specs.

    Electrets from makers like Sony, AKG and EV do NOT have exceptional, published noise figures.
    Look a few up.

    The first mic I looked at is the Sony ECM100-N which is a small omni-directional electret mic.
    Noise floor is 21db(A) or less.
    ** So not 14.

    " Games are being played here with specs".

    I don't think you need to invoke "games with specs". The design tradeoffs are different. The Sony ECM100-N has a maximum input sound pressure level of 145dBspl
    whereas the PUI AOM5024 which the OP is using has a maximum input sound pressure
    level of 110dBspl (for 3% thd).
    For a microphone to give a reasonably undistorted output at 145dBspl the diaphragm to
    back-plate spacing is likely to be greater, or the diaphragm stiffer, giving less sensitivity
    and worse signal to noise ratio.
    The much more expensive Sony mic has a greater dynamic range than the low-cost PUI capsule
    but that does not prevent the AOM5024 (and the Primo EM272 and EM273) from having a
    lower noise floor. At moderate sound levels the Sony is likely to generate less distortion
    than the others. So no games are needed. The OP wants a very sensitive microphone with
    a low noise floor but doesn't care about high sound levels. For his purposes the AOM5024
    is a better choice than the Sony ECM100-N, even though in most respects the Sony is a "better"
    microphone.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 04:40:32 2022
    John Wanker bullshitted
    ====================

    Only large diaphragm condensers are truely quiet.
    Mics are also sensitive to acceleration,
    ** Wot a pedant you are.
    " If it might be true - therefore it is" nonsense.

    It is hardly nonsense.

    ** Try reading what was written again.

    Assuming that what *might* be true IS true is 100% insane =========================================


    Noise floor is 21db(A) or less.
    ** So not 14.

    " Games are being played here with specs".

    I don't think you need to invoke "games with specs".

    ** Guess what - pal ?

    I don't give a flying FUCK what a *know nothing* lying TROLL like you thinks.
    Clearly you have *zero experience* with actual microphones.

    Go pull your tiny cock elsewhere.
    Doing it in public is so pathetic.



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to palli...@gmail.com on Tue Feb 22 05:41:19 2022
    On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 12:40:45 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
    John Wanker bullshitted
    ====================

    Only large diaphragm condensers are truely quiet.
    Mics are also sensitive to acceleration,
    ** Wot a pedant you are.
    " If it might be true - therefore it is" nonsense.

    It is hardly nonsense.

    ** Try reading what was written again.

    Assuming that what *might* be true IS true is 100% insane =========================================
    Noise floor is 21db(A) or less.
    ** So not 14.

    " Games are being played here with specs".

    I don't think you need to invoke "games with specs".
    ** Guess what - pal ?

    I don't give a flying FUCK what a *know nothing* lying TROLL like you thinks. Clearly you have *zero experience* with actual microphones.

    It might be a few weeks before it is convenient to do the measurements,
    but I will measure the noise floor of a few of the AOM5024 mics and let you know
    the results. I do have the necessary test equipment including a B&K 4231 sound level calibrator and a suitable low-noise preamp.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 07:49:14 2022
    On 2/21/2022 9:29 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened
    John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is
    maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying
    is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling
    small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


      No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin
    busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

      to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And
    as I said, two women have OD,

      I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.


    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so what
    if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times. My
    wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

      I saw the multi-tube shotgun mic 30 years ago and have thought that
    would be neat. And what works best a

    shotgun mic or a parabolic? What advantage does one have over the other.
    Which one handles wind better?

    If I had the electronics, I could compare. So the neighbor thing is
    mostly mental masturbation.

       The city has been after them several times to mow the lawn. Then
    they had a long process to get them to clean up the

    property and than finally got to the point where they brought in a large
    dump truck and back hoe and cleaned it up got the

    lawn mowed and put a lien on the property. It took two truck loads. The
    home is in poor shape, because they didn't get repairs done after

    the 2018 hurricane. The household was mama (80s), son (50s) grandson
    30s, daughter (teens) and different hanger on-ers

    over the years. All were on government money, mama was sick for a while
    and got weaker and weaker. I expected to see

    a chest freezer show up any day, so they could keep collecting her SS
    check. Never saw a freezer arrive, but I can't find

    any obituary for her either :-). Some people would care, she owned the
    local titty bar for over 30 years.

    Lost it after hiring a 16 year old as dancer.

    Son is on disability, he once told me they cut it off when he missed a psychological assessment. Grandson also has a mental disability.

    Teen daughter, that poor kid has a had bad childhood, had to live in
    that drug fueled household, her mama died after the coma

    brought on by a beating. Anyway, with grandma dead, money in that
    household is going to be even tighter. Yes, maybe I should

    concern myself with locking up our stuff. My wife does this, I'm more
    laid back.

     OK, soap opera over, you can get back to electronics, or supply chain disruption, or the rise in interest rates, or the Russia/Ukraine

    situation, or the price of gas, or even the fall of our democracy from
    within.

                                                Mikek



    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 07:46:57 2022
    On 2/21/2022 9:29 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened
    John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is
    maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying
    is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling
    small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


      No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin
    busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

      to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And
    as I said, two women have OD,

      I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.


    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so what
    if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times. My
    wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

      I saw the multi-tube shotgun mic 30 years ago and have thought that
    would be neat. And what works best a

    shotgun mic or a parabolic? What advantage does one have over the other.
    Which one handles wind better?

    If I had the electronics, I could compare. So the neighbor thing is
    mostly mental masturbation.

       The city has been after them several times to mow the lawn. Then
    they had a long process to get them to clean up the

    property and than finally got to the point where they brought in a large
    dump truck and back hoe and cleaned it up got the

    lawn mowed and put a lien on the property. It took two truck loads. The
    home is in poor shape, because they didn't get repairs done after

    the 2018 hurricane. The household was mama (80s), son (50s) grandson
    30s, daughter (teens) and different hanger on-ers

    over the years. All were on government money, mama was sick for a while
    and got weaker and weaker. I expected to see

    a chest freezer show up any day, so they could keep collecting her SS
    check. Never saw a freezer arrive, but I can't find

    any obituary for her either :-). Some people would care, she owned the
    local titty bar for over 30 years.

    Lost it after hiring a 16 year old as dancer.

    Son is on disability, he once told me they cut it off when he missed a psychological assessment. Grandson also has a mental disability.

    Teen daughter, that poor kid has a had bad childhood, had to live in
    that drug fueled household, her mama died after the coma

    brought on by a beating. Anyway, with grandma dead, money in that
    household is going to be even tighter. Yes, maybe I should

    concern myself with locking up our stuff. My wife does this, I'm more
    laid back.

     OK, soap opera over, you can get back to electronics, or supply chain disruption, or the rise in interest rates, or the Russia/Ukraine

    situation, or the price of gas, or even the fall of our democracy from
    within.

                                                Mikek

                                                    Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 07:57:59 2022
    On 2/21/2022 9:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John >>>>>> Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time >>>>> weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get
    robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're
    walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be
    delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts. >>>
    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my
    storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked
    up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.
    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

     Hmm, nobody breaking into the house, to take drugs, they are invited.
    I don't know why nothing has every happened

    over the deceased women, the police were very involved in the situation.
    The Son has had a least two lawsuits against the city,

    as he says, "they are just out to get me" he is an angel and never does anything wrong. :-)

    It was my storage shed that was used for shooting drugs, it is within a
    fenced area with a locked gate. The climbed the fence and went in the shed.

    I know this because they broke a fence post doing this. I now have a
    lock on the shed door.


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 08:01:15 2022
    On 2/21/2022 11:45 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe >>>>>>>>> a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have >>>>>>> serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts. >>>>>
    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my >>>>> storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>>>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >>>> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>> else will solve your problem for you.
    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints and
    likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.
    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.

    They don't really have parties, most people walk to the house, no cars
    parked. No crowds.

    Just  a few people in the house doing drugs and dying.


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Feb 22 08:12:25 2022
    On 2/22/2022 2:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?
    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.

    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.
    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


     My daughter visited yesterday and told me that someone had been
    stealing from cars at the gym her husband works out at.

    One of the guys saw someone trying to get into his car, he yelled out to
    the others rolling at the Jiu jitsu gym, the would be thief

    took one flight through the air and then was in a choke hold. There was
    a police officer working out, he retrieved his handcuffs

    and cuffed the thief. He just picked the wrong place.


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 08:05:46 2022
    On 2/21/2022 8:42 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:18:39 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 3:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    amdx wrote:
    ===========
    Not measuring, just want to listen to the drug deals across the street. :-)

    ** Monitoring private conversations is ILLEGAL !!

    Both fines an jail time are penalties.
    So you go right ahead - asshole.

    ...... Phil

    If he lives in a "one-party" state in the US he can use an audio
    enhancement device to monitor a private oral conversation, so long as at
    least one party participating is aware.

    So if he lives in one of those he'll have to go buy some drugs I guess.
    He should probably try not to get caught at it though as a buyer wearing
    a wire likely makes drug dealers pretty unhappy
    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to a conversation when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, such as on a street corner. However, a bit of searching turned up conflicting information regarding this.

    However... it would be easy enough to protect yourself from criminal or civil prosecution by simply posting signs indicating that the area is under surveillance. That then constitutes informed surveillance and is perfectly legal. If this were not
    true, it would not be possible to have surveillance cameras in public areas.

    So mount a sign on your house indicating the area around the property is under surveillance and you should be fine. This alone will probably get rid of the druggies.

     I don't think they will be leaving, they own the house. They talked
    about moving to a property they had in Tennessee,

    but they had to sell that for lawyer fees when mama was in court over
    the 16yr old dancer.


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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 08:13:49 2022
    On 2/22/2022 3:13 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 4:05 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:59 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 22/02/2022 09:55, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed.  Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. >>>>>>> There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not >>>>>>> required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world
    conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey
    wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two
    telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's
    mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a
    mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with >>>>> the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted >>>>> in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    That bit is key - the laws and regulations vary widely for different
    countries, and probably within countries (I'm sure that's the case for
    the USA at least).


    Right, I know targeted audio recording of conversations is considered
    very much like wiretapping in the US but how e.g. non-specific AV
    recording of areas like with security cameras on private property is
    handled exactly, I'm unsure.

    Or rather, all the US states are remarkably consistent on the first
    point at least.

    OK, let's just say, I'll be listening for bird sounds.

                           Mikek


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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 06:14:18 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:53:12 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 12:45 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my >>>>> storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>>>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >>>> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with >>>> difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your >>>> security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>> else will solve your problem for you.

    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints
    and likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.

    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.

    You've never lived on a street with some half-wits down the way who have house parties with 150 other half-wits roaming around drunk and doing
    drugs, firing bottle rockets off til 3 AM on a Sunday morning and people passed out on the lawn and such? Lived a charmed life if that so...

    You have no way to know that. I have had exactly that situation... for years.

    But no one died of an OD.

    You seem to be obsessing over this, but fail to understand that deaths are treated very, very seriously.

    --

    Rick C.

    ---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Tue Feb 22 06:26:16 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:14:02 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:13 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 4:05 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:59 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 22/02/2022 09:55, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex >>>>> <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. >>>>>>> There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not >>>>>>> required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world
    conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey
    wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two
    telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's
    mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a >>>>>> mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that. >>>>> There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with >>>>> the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera >>>>> or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track >>>>> for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted >>>>> in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...



    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your >>>> local statues

    That bit is key - the laws and regulations vary widely for different
    countries, and probably within countries (I'm sure that's the case for >>> the USA at least).


    Right, I know targeted audio recording of conversations is considered
    very much like wiretapping in the US but how e.g. non-specific AV
    recording of areas like with security cameras on private property is
    handled exactly, I'm unsure.

    Or rather, all the US states are remarkably consistent on the first
    point at least.
    OK, let's just say, I'll be listening for bird sounds.

    Put up the signs. It's easy to do and may save your bacon.

    --

    Rick C.

    --++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 06:17:56 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Just the opposite. Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times before laws caught up with technology. But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy, like in an apartment or hotel room.

    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    You are just making up stuff.

    --

    Rick C.

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    ---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Tue Feb 22 06:24:11 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:01:30 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 11:45 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf"
    and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that
    here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it...


    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my >>>>> storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>>>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >>>> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with >>>> difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your >>>> security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>> else will solve your problem for you.
    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints
    and likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the
    owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.
    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.

    They don't really have parties, most people walk to the house, no cars parked. No crowds.

    Just a few people in the house doing drugs and dying.

    Oh, well if it's just a few now and then, no big problem.

    --

    Rick C.

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Allison on Tue Feb 22 14:26:18 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 04:07:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened Phil
    Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in <adab2b13-f4f6-42b8-927e-fce80211845cn@googlegroups.com>:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    ================

    Most modern security cameras have sound too,

    ** Massive LIE !!

    I have one like that.

    ** Bullshit.

    Fuck off you stinking WOG LAIR


    https://www.walmart.com/ip/EasyN-720P-Wireless-WIFI-Pan-Tilt-HD-IP-Camera-1-0MP-1-4-CMOS-Support-Two-way-Audio-IR-Cut-Night-Vision-Phone-APP-Control/448572510
    I have the older one with one way audio, been working 24/7 since 2012

    Wrote the software for it in Linux too:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/mcamip/
    and wrote Linux positioner software for it.

    Has auto-scan 3D..
    Is not water proof but works fine under some small roof like thing.
    In daylight through a window OK, for nightvision I have special
    Sony Super HAD 0.01 lux cameras, those need no IR and are mostly undetectable.

    https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Camera-Audio/s?k=Outdoor+Camera+with+Audio

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to amdx@knology.net on Tue Feb 22 14:43:59 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:12:25 -0600) it happened amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote in <sv2r0b$p40$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 2/22/2022 2:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?
    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.

    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.
    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


     My daughter visited yesterday and told me that someone had been
    stealing from cars at the gym her husband works out at.

    One of the guys saw someone trying to get into his car, he yelled out to
    the others rolling at the Jiu jitsu gym, the would be thief

    took one flight through the air and then was in a choke hold. There was
    a police officer working out, he retrieved his handcuffs

    and cuffed the thief. He just picked the wrong place.

    Here it went like this, it was queens day (a free day for all and lots of stuff happening)
    I was in the shower and wanted to go to Amsterdam center to be with the festivities.
    Door bell rang, I thought 'come back later'.
    Then a huge noise and I stepped out of the shower and the burglar was already in the living room,
    had broken the kitchen window open..
    He broke down in fear seeing me come at him and cried 'do not hit do not hit' Oh well, I put him on a chair, got some clothes on, got him to empty his pockets for an ID,
    he had a letter with him that he had to report to the police station... junkies I felt pity on him (was some arab or alien like guy) gave him a cup of coffee and told him:
    'I make a deal with you, promise me you and your friends do not come here any more and then I let you go'.
    That worked, never seen anyone there try again.

    So it all depends.
    My neighbor says he can do karate.
    So can I, a little bit, learned it at school.
    But there but for fortune go you and I.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Feb 22 07:15:39 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex ><user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 09:22:04 2022
    On 2/22/2022 8:14 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 2:53:12 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 12:45 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 10:55 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:30:02 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/21/2022 4:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 21. februar 2022 kl. 23.19.27 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/21/2022 1:04 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:31:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened John
    Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <153b314d-6fb5-497a...@googlegroups.com>:


    a Gatling gun towards people you think might be drug dealers is maybe
    a little unwise.
    John
    Having lived in Amsterdam the way to find out what they are saying >>>>>>>>>> is go over there
    and say "hey man I am buying, what you have for me?"
    ;-)

    Drug dealers making house calls seems a little unusual unless you have
    serious money on offer, or they're just small-timers peddling small-time
    weed to their friends, in the US it sounds like a good way to get >>>>>>>>> robbed/killed. Everyone is armed and you have no idea what you're >>>>>>>>> walking into.

    In the 'hood at least historically they tend to stick to their "turf" >>>>>>>>> and buyers come to them. But maybe the pandemic has changed even that >>>>>>>> here has been a few cases of so called "white delivery".
    order via snapchat or SMS, and cocain, estacy or similar will be be >>>>>>>> delivered
    to your door, just like a pizza.

    if there is a market someone will make a business out of it... >>>>>>>>

    No they are meth users. But there has also been cocaine and heroin busts.

    I have cleaned up needles from my yard and at one point they used my >>>>>>> storage shed

    to hang out and shoot up in, my wife found 3 syringes inside. And as I >>>>>>> said, two women have OD,

    I don't think I was clear they died in the house from an OD.
    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit locked >>>>>> up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with >>>>>> difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the >>>>>> landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your >>>>>> security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>>>> else will solve your problem for you.
    If people are breaking into the house and using it to take drugs, the place can be condemned and taken from the owner. That will clean it up. Trouble is the neighbors have to take action to motivate the city. There need to be repeated complaints
    and likely police involvement. If people have OD'd in the house, that has to show up on public records. That should be sufficient.

    Didn't sound like the neighbor's house was abandoned/derelict to me,
    just some suburban party-house owned and occupied by asswipes, and the >>>> owner hosts parties there or something, and people have ODed there.

    No one is going to "condemn" shit this isn't some crack house in the 'hood.
    LOL Multiple ODs and it's just a party thing! Yeah, right.

    You've never lived on a street with some half-wits down the way who have
    house parties with 150 other half-wits roaming around drunk and doing
    drugs, firing bottle rockets off til 3 AM on a Sunday morning and people
    passed out on the lawn and such? Lived a charmed life if that so...
    You have no way to know that. I have had exactly that situation... for years.

    But no one died of an OD.

    You seem to be obsessing over this, but fail to understand that deaths are treated very, very seriously.

     There was no punishment for anything that happened to any of the women
    in that house.

    I don't know why.

                          Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 16:51:27 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars. Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Tue Feb 22 11:26:23 2022
    On 2/22/2022 10:22 AM, amdx wrote:

    You've never lived on a street with some half-wits down the way who have >>> house parties with 150 other half-wits roaming around drunk and doing
    drugs, firing bottle rockets off til 3 AM on a Sunday morning and people >>> passed out on the lawn and such? Lived a charmed life if that so...
    You have no way to know that.  I have had exactly that situation...
    for years.

    But no one died of an OD.

    You seem to be obsessing over this, but fail to understand that deaths
    are treated very, very seriously.

     There was no punishment for anything that happened to any of the women
    in that house.

    I don't know why.

                          Mikek



    Cuz someone tragically dying on your property isn't a crime they punish
    you as a property-owner for unless it can be shown that you were
    directly or indirectly responsible thru malice or negligence or something.

    Sometimes that's not easily done. "Did you provide them the drugs?" "No
    sir" "Did you know they were using drugs on your property" "No sir" -
    prove otherwise.

    Think you might be surprised how little law enforcement cares sometimes
    about making a junkie's "friends" pay for the sadly predictable
    consequences of an addict who sets about a course of self-destruction, particularly if the parties involved are white. They're off somewhere
    setting up a black guy to do a year in the bing over $50 worth of weed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 11:57:43 2022
    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?

    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes
    perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way
    thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make
    the arrest

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Feb 22 09:01:23 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars. >Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.





    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 17:12:15 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:01:23 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <fe5a1h1b4hbvd47b51rf55143hj1rjfhgi@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    It is all about money (for US) the Military Industrial Complex needs and creates wars.
    Taxpayers pay for it some also with their lives.
    Evil rulers need armies to keep them in power.

    One ant heap against the other, does it make us as species stronger?
    WW2 gave us missiles (Von Braun) and eventually got us to the moon, gave us radar,
    jet engines... nukes...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Feb 22 09:33:00 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:12:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:01:23 -0800) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><fe5a1h1b4hbvd47b51rf55143hj1rjfhgi@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>><oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes >>little sense.

    It is all about money (for US) the Military Industrial Complex needs and creates wars.
    Taxpayers pay for it some also with their lives.
    Evil rulers need armies to keep them in power.

    One ant heap against the other, does it make us as species stronger?
    WW2 gave us missiles (Von Braun) and eventually got us to the moon, gave us radar,
    jet engines... nukes...


    All of that would have happened, without killing a hundred million
    people.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 09:36:18 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:57:43 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <user@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7.16440@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?

    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes >perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way
    thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make
    the arrest

    We need apprenticeships and occupational licensing for robbers.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 12:23:11 2022
    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these
    territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 09:35:05 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these >territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...


    Right. Who owns a hunk of territory?

    I guess the only workable answer is, the people who live there.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 10:15:07 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:57:55 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?
    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way
    thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make
    the arrest

    Those doors are supposed to open outward for exactly that reason, in event of a fire you don't want people to have to think about it.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 13:00:03 2022
    On 2/22/2022 12:35 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these
    territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...


    Right. Who owns a hunk of territory?

    For the bulk of the continental US it MIGHT BE argued it was the Native Americans, but their concept of "ownership of land" was likely much more
    vague than Europeans initially.

    Sort of an annoying thing to own when you think about it as compared to
    stuff like precious metals, say, land is very heavy, not easy to take
    any where. Paper dollars are even more convenient

    I guess the only workable answer is, the people who live there.


    The Federalist party was very much opposed to the Louisiana purchase
    because besides just detesting Jefferson they figured it would lead to
    strife between new western states and the original colonies, and
    potentially a civil war between slave states and free states.

    Which in hindsight is basically what happened. Freedom-loving
    slave-owner Jefferson still carried a lot of clout at that time and
    their objections were overruled. The Federalists were also taken aback a Constitutionalist like Jefferson figured he had the power to broker
    deals like that, but he was more of a Constitutionalist before he was President.

    That Jefferson was something of a big hypocrite is the kind of thing
    freedom of speech-lovers seem to not particularly want American kids
    being taught in schools under the heading of the "CRT" (which is hard
    for me not to think stands for a course about obsolete display technology.)

    I think this is odd considering a large fraction of the (white)
    Americans most opposed to this being taught likely have no family
    history of e.g. slave-ownership in the first place. Many of my New
    England ancestors were here before the United States and owned slaves in
    the 1700s as was common at the time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Feb 22 10:20:49 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:13:45 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:01:23 -0800) it happened jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <fe5a1h1b4hbvd47b5...@4ax.com>:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >>jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><oev91h9ke0vp38obu...@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes >little sense.
    It is all about money (for US) the Military Industrial Complex needs and creates wars.
    Taxpayers pay for it some also with their lives.
    Evil rulers need armies to keep them in power.

    One ant heap against the other, does it make us as species stronger?
    WW2 gave us missiles (Von Braun) and eventually got us to the moon, gave us radar,
    jet engines... nukes...

    All of which we would have developed without the war. Wartime focuses on weapons design. Peacetime focuses on pure research.

    BTW, going to the moon was actually about the "space race", not really from the war other than the cold war... more like competing in the Olympics.

    --

    Rick C.

    -++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 10:16:59 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:01:40 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obu...@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.

    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    That's like saying spending hours or days contemplating the value of a resistor makes little sense. It's their jobs to optimize everything for their country. That makes lots of sense to them even if you can't understand it.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 10:21:34 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:23:23 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obu...@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes little sense.
    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...

    So? They gave a quit claim deed then. lol

    --

    Rick C.

    -+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 10:22:46 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:35:22 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obu...@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these >territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...
    Right. Who owns a hunk of territory?

    I guess the only workable answer is, the people who live there.

    Tell that to the Ukrainians.

    --

    Rick C.

    +--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 13:47:54 2022
    On 2/22/2022 1:15 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:57:55 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>>>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?
    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes
    perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way
    thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make
    the arrest

    Those doors are supposed to open outward for exactly that reason, in event of a fire you don't want people to have to think about it.


    I expect the fire codes in the US often only have special
    door-requirements for commercial structures that have capacities of X+
    persons where X is a number like 100 or somethin, but I haven't looked
    at the codes for my particular state.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 11:01:24 2022
    tirsdag den 22. februar 2022 kl. 19.48.09 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
    On 2/22/2022 1:15 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:57:55 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?
    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes
    perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way >> thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make >> the arrest

    Those doors are supposed to open outward for exactly that reason, in event of a fire you don't want people to have to think about it.

    I expect the fire codes in the US often only have special
    door-requirements for commercial structures that have capacities of X+ persons where X is a number like 100 or somethin, but I haven't looked
    at the codes for my particular state.

    and i depends on where the door is, and emergency exit should open out
    so it can open even if a bunch of people is trying to get out at the same time if it is a small room it should open in so people or things out side doesn't prevent you from opening it

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 13:57:43 2022
    On 2/22/2022 1:47 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 1:15 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:57:55 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 10:15 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:46:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc.
    There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is
    not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, >>>>>> they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey
    wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two
    telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths >>>>>> and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a
    mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works
    with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track
    for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then
    posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Is there a story?
    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes
    perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way >>> thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make >>> the arrest

    Those doors are supposed to open outward for exactly that reason, in
    event of a fire you don't want people to have to think about it.


    I expect the fire codes in the US often only have special
    door-requirements for commercial structures that have capacities of X+ persons where X is a number like 100 or somethin, but I haven't looked
    at the codes for my particular state.


    I forget that convenience stores in a lot of places in the US like out
    west are gigantic, most in New England are tiny. I can think of one
    place near me that might have a design capacity of 100 people but it
    would be pretty uncomfortable

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 11:24:43 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 13:00:03 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 12:35 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes >>>> little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these
    territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...


    Right. Who owns a hunk of territory?

    For the bulk of the continental US it MIGHT BE argued it was the Native >Americans, but their concept of "ownership of land" was likely much more >vague than Europeans initially.

    Sort of an annoying thing to own when you think about it as compared to
    stuff like precious metals, say, land is very heavy, not easy to take
    any where. Paper dollars are even more convenient

    I guess the only workable answer is, the people who live there.


    The Federalist party was very much opposed to the Louisiana purchase
    because besides just detesting Jefferson they figured it would lead to
    strife between new western states and the original colonies, and
    potentially a civil war between slave states and free states.

    Which in hindsight is basically what happened. Freedom-loving
    slave-owner Jefferson still carried a lot of clout at that time and
    their objections were overruled. The Federalists were also taken aback a >Constitutionalist like Jefferson figured he had the power to broker
    deals like that, but he was more of a Constitutionalist before he was >President.

    That Jefferson was something of a big hypocrite is the kind of thing
    freedom of speech-lovers seem to not particularly want American kids
    being taught in schools under the heading of the "CRT" (which is hard
    for me not to think stands for a course about obsolete display technology.)

    I think this is odd considering a large fraction of the (white)
    Americans most opposed to this being taught likely have no family
    history of e.g. slave-ownership in the first place. Many of my New
    England ancestors were here before the United States and owned slaves in
    the 1700s as was common at the time.

    Slavery was universal all over the world through recorded history.
    What's remarkable about England and the USA is not that they had
    slaves, but that they abolished slavery.

    Are kids taught that?

    Great movie, Belle.

    https://www.amazon.com/Belle-Blu-ray-Gugu-Mbatha-Raw/dp/B00KO10QH2

    My Irish ancestors were essentially slaves. Most people were, before
    the Black Death shook things up.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 22:50:33 2022
    On 22/02/2022 18:01, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.


    Military aggression like this is often about improving popularity at
    home rather than wanting more territory. Putin has being getting
    steadily more authoritarian, and is perhaps not as popular as he has
    been - attacking Ukraine and defying Nato and the UN distracts from that
    and unites people back home.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Feb 22 22:53:50 2022
    On 22/02/2022 18:36, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:57:43 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:


    Convenience store doors that open inwards instead of outwards sometimes
    perplex panicked robbers so much they're still trying to smash their way
    thru when the police arrive, who nonchalantly push the door open to make
    the arrest

    We need apprenticeships and occupational licensing for robbers.


    Some places have that - called "Mafia" or "Triads". It keeps the crime
    better organised!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to david.brown@hesbynett.no on Tue Feb 22 15:57:29 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:50:33 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 22/02/2022 18:01, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.


    Military aggression like this is often about improving popularity at
    home rather than wanting more territory. Putin has being getting
    steadily more authoritarian, and is perhaps not as popular as he has
    been - attacking Ukraine and defying Nato and the UN distracts from that
    and unites people back home.


    I just read "A Glorious Way To Die." The emperor wasn't so much the
    driving force behind the brutal Japanese empire, but a big bunch of
    militarists and ultra-nationalists. Sort of a collective madness.

    Usually, it's one leader-for-life strongman and a crowd of toadies.

    I wonder if Putin's aggressions make him more popular at home. I'd
    guess not.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Tue Feb 22 21:39:20 2022
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so what
    if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times. My
    wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing drugs
    there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of what you
    capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to
    confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Tue Feb 22 21:18:09 2022
    On 2/22/2022 4:48 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 22/2/22 7:55 pm, bitrex wrote:
    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Tried consulting mine, but they didn't answer. Might have been stoned I guess.

    Heh!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Tue Feb 22 21:29:03 2022
    On 2/22/2022 9:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras).
    what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Just the opposite. Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times before laws caught up with technology. But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy, like in an apartment or hotel room.

    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    No

    You are just making up stuff.


    Nah, you can't just go around electronically eavesdropping on people's conversations without their informed consent. Not by tapping their
    phones, and not by using some application-specific mic to target people
    talking to each other in the real world at a distance, while they are
    unaware of the presence of you and/or the equipment.

    How much throwing up some sign indemnifies you I can't say for sure,
    consult your local listings. Definitely not when they're not even on
    your property!

    But using a camcorder or cell phone cam to record audio and video of
    people in a public place is NOT the same thing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 19:53:27 2022
    Rick Cunthead knows NOTHING about the law,
    ==================================
    Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times
    before laws caught up with technology.

    ** Fantasy bullshit.

    Recording conversations has always needed consent from at least one party.

    But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy,

    ** Like outdoors, on the street or sitting in a car.

    Work in an office with others ?
    The you go outside to gain privacy.


    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    ** Fake example.

    If the cop can see you and the mobile phone , it is not a secret recording.
    If a cop is having a 1:1 talk with somebody - that is a private conversation.



    ...... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 20:02:01 2022
    bitrex wrote:
    ===========

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.


    ** Bout 25 years ago, mobile phones and cordless phones were analog FM.

    With a radio scanner, you could monitor conversations hundreds of yards away.
    Just by unplugging the base unit, a cordless handset could hear all sorts of talk from neighbours etc,

    Almost no users were aware of this.
    One could even capture phone numbers and pin numbers being entered with a simple DTMF decoder.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 20:19:52 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:29:16 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 9:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Just the opposite. Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times before laws caught up with technology. But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy, like in an apartment or hotel room.

    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    No

    You are just making up stuff.


    Nah, you can't just go around electronically eavesdropping on people's conversations without their informed consent. Not by tapping their
    phones, and not by using some application-specific mic to target people talking to each other in the real world at a distance, while they are unaware of the presence of you and/or the equipment.

    How much throwing up some sign indemnifies you I can't say for sure,
    consult your local listings. Definitely not when they're not even on
    your property!

    But using a camcorder or cell phone cam to record audio and video of
    people in a public place is NOT the same thing.

    Yet you can't explain how it is different. So if the mic is accompanied by a video camera, does that make it legal?

    I don't think you actually know anything about this. You are just shooting from the hip. I dug around a bit and recording someone in public, as in standing on a sidewalk or in the street, appears to be perfectly legal because there is no expectation of
    privacy. If you are in a home, a phone booth (one of the examples provided), anywhere that you can't be casually overheard by someone nearby, there's an expectation of privacy. That's not a street or sidewalk.

    Most of what you find on the Internet about this has to do with law enforcement which is a totally different thing. For civil matters, providing a sign that you are being recorded means you have been informed, just like a trespassing sign. At least in
    the states where I have lived, there is no presumption that you are trespassing until you are informed. A sign is sufficient notification as long as you can see it.

    --

    Rick C.

    +--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Feb 22 20:23:10 2022
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:39:31 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many
    states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust
    the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone
    else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so what
    if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times. My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing drugs
    there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Total BS. The police can't record you (other than in a public place) without a warrant. If a citizen records you there's nothing to stop that from being used as evidence in a criminal case.


    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    He wants to get to the kingpin!

    --

    Rick C.

    +-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 21:15:38 2022
    Rick Cunthead Cannot Learn Anything.
    ==============================

    But using a camcorder or cell phone cam to record audio and video of
    people in a public place is NOT the same thing.

    Yet you can't explain how it is different.
    So if the mic is accompanied by a video camera, does that make it legal?


    ** The issue is secrecy - fuckhead.
    Holding you mobile up to film someone is VISIBLE !!


    I don't think you actually know anything about this.

    ** ROTFLMAO = pot v kettle par excellence.


    You are just shooting from the hip. I dug around a bit and recording someone in public,
    as in standing on a sidewalk or in the street, appears to be perfectly legal because
    there is no expectation of privacy.

    ** FUCKING BULLSHIT !!!!!!

    Two or three people can have a private conversation almost anywhere.
    On a street corner - in a park, in a noisy pub.

    Most of what you find on the Internet about this has to do with law enforcement which is a totally different thing.

    ** FFS you imbecile !!!

    Illegal use of a " listening device " is a CRIMINAL offence - you absurd fuckhead!!
    ====================================================================

    For civil matters,

    ** Irrelevant crap.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Wed Feb 23 00:19:04 2022
    On 2/22/2022 11:19 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:29:16 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 9:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex
    <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they >>>>>> fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping >>>>>> laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones >>>>>> it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and >>>>>> ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on >>>>>> your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that.
    There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera
    or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your
    local statues

    Just the opposite. Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times before laws caught up with technology. But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy, like in an apartment or hotel room.

    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    No

    You are just making up stuff.


    Nah, you can't just go around electronically eavesdropping on people's
    conversations without their informed consent. Not by tapping their
    phones, and not by using some application-specific mic to target people
    talking to each other in the real world at a distance, while they are
    unaware of the presence of you and/or the equipment.

    How much throwing up some sign indemnifies you I can't say for sure,
    consult your local listings. Definitely not when they're not even on
    your property!

    But using a camcorder or cell phone cam to record audio and video of
    people in a public place is NOT the same thing.

    Yet you can't explain how it is different. So if the mic is accompanied by a video camera, does that make it legal?

    I don't think you actually know anything about this. You are just shooting from the hip. I dug around a bit and recording someone in public, as in standing on a sidewalk or in the street, appears to be perfectly legal because there is no expectation
    of privacy. If you are in a home, a phone booth (one of the examples provided), anywhere that you can't be casually overheard by someone nearby, there's an expectation of privacy. That's not a street or sidewalk.

    Most of what you find on the Internet about this has to do with law enforcement which is a totally different thing. For civil matters, providing a sign that you are being recorded means you have been informed, just like a trespassing sign. At least
    in the states where I have lived, there is no presumption that you are trespassing until you are informed. A sign is sufficient notification as long as you can see it.


    Would you put up an informational sign that said "Attention women: angle-enhancement devices may be in use on this property to take photos
    up your skirts. Please remove your skirts or leave now if you do not
    consent to this practice."

    Whether this constitutes proper "informed consent" I think you should
    consult a lawyer.

    Similarly for use of audio-enhancement devices to listen to or record conversations, instead of angle-enhancement devices.

    <http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations>

    See section "Can you record a phone call or conversation when you do not
    have consent from one of the parties?" about the necessity of consent,
    not just informing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Bitrex on Tue Feb 22 21:25:46 2022
    gnuarm.delusionl raving nut case

    ==========================
    Bitrex wrote:

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing drugs
    there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Total BS.

    ** Fraid it is FACT !!!

    If a citizen records you there's nothing to stop that from being used as evidence in a criminal case.

    ** No way.

    The citizen will become the *accused in a criminal case* if they were not a party to the conversation.

    Look up "wire tapping law USA "
    It's a Federal Crime.



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Rick C on Wed Feb 23 01:23:17 2022
    On 2/22/2022 11:23 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:39:31 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck with
    difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where the
    landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but in many >>>> states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to bust >>>> the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost of your
    security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope anyone >>>> else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so what >>> if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times. My
    wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping to
    accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing drugs
    there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of what you
    capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Total BS. The police can't record you (other than in a public place) without a warrant. If a citizen records you there's nothing to stop that from being used as evidence in a criminal case.


    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to
    confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    He wants to get to the kingpin!


    If amdx think someone is the "kingpin" there's a high probability it's
    just a harried Grubhub delivery driver, lol. He's gonna snatch the bag
    out of the poor bastard's hands like "a HA!" and instead of China White
    he'll find a big dish of beef chow mein.

    <https://youtu.be/qae25976UgA>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Wed Feb 23 01:35:47 2022
    On 2/22/2022 11:02 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    bitrex wrote:
    ===========
    >
    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to
    confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.


    ** Bout 25 years ago, mobile phones and cordless phones were analog FM.

    With a radio scanner, you could monitor conversations hundreds of yards away.
    Just by unplugging the base unit, a cordless handset could hear all sorts of talk from neighbours etc,

    Almost no users were aware of this.
    One could even capture phone numbers and pin numbers being entered with a simple DTMF decoder.


    ..... Phil




    I expect my first cell phone was an analog unit, can't remember what
    model it was exactly though. I was in college during the last years it
    was still very rare to see students with cell phones on campus, still
    using desk or wall phones for the most part. A few years later everyone
    had them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Feb 23 07:09:19 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:33:00 -0800) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <7g7a1hlcr3oo6v54mi9di3fcir1jga2pj5@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:12:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:01:23 -0800) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><fe5a1h1b4hbvd47b51rf55143hj1rjfhgi@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened >>>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>>><oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes >>>little sense.

    It is all about money (for US) the Military Industrial Complex needs and creates wars.
    Taxpayers pay for it some also with their lives.
    Evil rulers need armies to keep them in power.

    One ant heap against the other, does it make us as species stronger?
    WW2 gave us missiles (Von Braun) and eventually got us to the moon, gave us radar,
    jet engines... nukes...


    All of that would have happened, without killing a hundred million
    people.

    I do not think so.
    It is evolution at work.
    Animals developed similar 'tech' if you want to call it that way,
    plants too, to survive, defend themselves against others (poisonous leaves, spikes etc),
    in a competitive world, we are not different.

    Do wars have a purpose? Yes I think so.

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Wed Feb 23 07:09:19 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:22:46 -0800 (PST)) it happened Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in <b6744335-ee9d-430c-b477-9bc58631c338n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:35:22 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these
    territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...
    Right. Who owns a hunk of territory?

    I guess the only workable answer is, the people who live there.

    Tell that to the Ukrainians.

    They are just a bunch of CIA pawns who overthrew their government and are shelling
    peaceful people who declared them selves independent from that.

    biden wants war also to distract the world from his totally failed policies he promoted while running for president
    All you have now is inflation, homelessness, more crime, and dictatorship by a mentally
    not so good working stress puppet.

    x

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to user@example.net on Wed Feb 23 07:09:19 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:23:11 -0500) it happened bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in <3_8RJ.15189$LRj9.10031@fx29.iad>:

    On 2/22/2022 12:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.

    The US bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska for about 2.6 billion
    and 100 million in modern dollars, respectively. Some believe these >territories weren't really France or Russia's property to sell in the
    first place...

    That remembers me of a picture in a big photo-magazine in the sixties of a farmer working his land
    The text under it was something like '..works the land that he owns for a while'
    Give human lifespan, who 'owns' what?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Feb 23 02:21:48 2022
    On 2/23/2022 1:35 AM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 11:02 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
      bitrex wrote:
    ===========
      >
    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than to
    confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.


    ** Bout 25 years ago,  mobile phones and cordless phones were analog FM.

      With a radio scanner, you could monitor conversations hundreds of
    yards away.
      Just by unplugging the base unit, a cordless handset could hear all
    sorts of talk from neighbours etc,

    Almost no users were aware of this.
    One could even capture phone numbers and pin numbers being entered
    with a simple DTMF decoder.


    .....  Phil


    I expect my first cell phone was an analog unit, can't remember what
    model it was exactly though. I was in college during the last years it
    was still very rare to see students with cell phones on campus, still
    using desk or wall phones for the most part. A few years later everyone
    had them.

    It was probably a Nokia 909 or similar:

    <https://www.deviantart.com/redfield-1982/art/Nokia-909-from-1995-457970303>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Feb 22 23:53:51 2022
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    ===================

    One ant heap against the other, does it make us as species stronger?
    WW2 gave us missiles (Von Braun) and eventually got us to the moon, gave us radar,
    jet engines... nukes...


    All of that would have happened, without killing a hundred million
    people.

    ** Missiles, jet engines and nukes hardly killed anyone.
    Bout 0.1 % of that number.
    Good old bullets, bayonets and Zylon B gas did the rest.

    Problem is, you cannot stop a war without killing people.
    The more and easier you do it, the quicker it stops.

    Do wars have a purpose?

    Those who start them seek a benefit, the rest just try to stay alive and save their homes.


    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Feb 23 09:19:48 2022
    On 23/02/2022 00:57, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:50:33 +0100, David Brown
    <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

    On 22/02/2022 18:01, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:51:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:15:39 -0800) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <oev91h9ke0vp38obuv8bsbtbfok99dpleo@4ax.com>:

    Is it a crime there to assault a burgler in your house?

    Well, we have been joking about that as no, you should welcome those burglars.
    Problem is if you permanently disable one chances are you get sued
    for using disproportional force or something.
    I think its better now, but shooting one if you have no gun license may get you into big trouble.

    OTOH its a lot of meat for in the deep freezer although I do not consume earthlings myself
    bad for your health, way too fat.
    Just had some fresh potato chips from the duplicator...

    Fixed my sat dish this morning, now the wind is down, wedge bolt pulled out of the wall by the storm!
    Anyways it now aligned again, can see Russia RT, people in the areas that Russia now supports as peace-keeper
    celebrating and having fireworks.
    US imperialism and weapon stuffing (and UK) to Ukrain is evil.
    So many lies, just like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    biden is a monster, just like his predecessor Bil Clignon was making war in Europe.


    We have Joe for three, or barely possibly 7 more years, but the
    Russians have Putin for life.

    Lust for territory is really weird. Germany, Japan, USSR, China. Makes
    little sense.


    Military aggression like this is often about improving popularity at
    home rather than wanting more territory. Putin has being getting
    steadily more authoritarian, and is perhaps not as popular as he has
    been - attacking Ukraine and defying Nato and the UN distracts from that
    and unites people back home.


    I just read "A Glorious Way To Die." The emperor wasn't so much the
    driving force behind the brutal Japanese empire, but a big bunch of militarists and ultra-nationalists. Sort of a collective madness.

    Usually, it's one leader-for-life strongman and a crowd of toadies.

    In the case of the Japanese, the "leader-for-life" was not strong enough
    to resist his advisors who wanted empire expansion and war. The emperor
    also wanted to surrender before the nukes were dropped, but his generals
    would not let him. The first World War was also started by military
    advisors - Emperor Franz Joseph was actually quite pleased that someone
    had killed his heir and nephew, and wanted to thank the Serbs rather
    than declare war on them. But his advisors pushed him into it.


    I wonder if Putin's aggressions make him more popular at home. I'd
    guess not.


    Rousing nationalism combined with propaganda, re-written history and
    false "facts" can do wonders for your popularity. What we are seeing
    here is "Make Russia Great Again". The same bullshit fooled half of the American population, and I think it is working in Russia. (For those in
    Russia that are not fooled, there's the carrot of knowing Putin is
    actually quite a good president for their country, and the stick of
    knowing that his opposition tends to disappear without trace.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Feb 23 06:08:47 2022
    On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:19:16 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 11:19 PM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:29:16 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 9:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 3:46 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:24:08 -0500) it happened bitrex >>>>> <us...@example.net> wrote in <tc0RJ.37177$r6p7....@fx41.iad>:

    ?

    Indeed. Just as reporters make audio recordings of crowds, etc. There is nothing special about sound, as long as they are
    informed or if the location is public enough, being informed is not required.


    No way, there is something special about real-world conversations, they
    fall under wiretapping laws. Private citizens have to obey wiretapping
    laws. Basically if it's illegal to do to a wire between two telephones
    it's illegal to do to the vibrating air between two human's mouths and
    ears. Intent matters of course, recording a crowd or putting up a mic on
    your property to record bird songs isn't the same thing.

    Most modern security cameras have sound too, I have one like that. >>>>> There is a TV program here that mentions recent crimes and works with the police
    they then ask everybody with a security camera or some other camera >>>>> or car camera in that area to upload the stuff, that way they track for example
    where the bad guy's cars go, (many people have such private cameras). >>>>> what language the bad guys speak, and their pictures are then posted in the program
    and online.
    Sure if something happened here they can have my recordings.
    5 security cams here (been robbed twice in Amsterdam).
    Last time I was home, poor guy,...


    I think in the US also there's a difference between audio/visual
    recording of an area, and targeted audio-only recording, consult your >>>> local statues

    Just the opposite. Recording video and not sound has allowed people to get away with it in prior times before laws caught up with technology. But that was in situations where people had an expectation of privacy, like in an apartment or hotel room.

    So every time someone makes a video on their phone of a cop arresting someone they are breaking the law?

    No

    You are just making up stuff.


    Nah, you can't just go around electronically eavesdropping on people's
    conversations without their informed consent. Not by tapping their
    phones, and not by using some application-specific mic to target people >> talking to each other in the real world at a distance, while they are
    unaware of the presence of you and/or the equipment.

    How much throwing up some sign indemnifies you I can't say for sure,
    consult your local listings. Definitely not when they're not even on
    your property!

    But using a camcorder or cell phone cam to record audio and video of
    people in a public place is NOT the same thing.

    Yet you can't explain how it is different. So if the mic is accompanied by a video camera, does that make it legal?

    I don't think you actually know anything about this. You are just shooting from the hip. I dug around a bit and recording someone in public, as in standing on a sidewalk or in the street, appears to be perfectly legal because there is no expectation
    of privacy. If you are in a home, a phone booth (one of the examples provided), anywhere that you can't be casually overheard by someone nearby, there's an expectation of privacy. That's not a street or sidewalk.

    Most of what you find on the Internet about this has to do with law enforcement which is a totally different thing. For civil matters, providing a sign that you are being recorded means you have been informed, just like a trespassing sign. At least
    in the states where I have lived, there is no presumption that you are trespassing until you are informed. A sign is sufficient notification as long as you can see it.

    Would you put up an informational sign that said "Attention women: angle-enhancement devices may be in use on this property to take photos
    up your skirts. Please remove your skirts or leave now if you do not
    consent to this practice."

    Whether this constitutes proper "informed consent" I think you should consult a lawyer.

    Similarly for use of audio-enhancement devices to listen to or record conversations, instead of angle-enhancement devices.

    <http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations>

    See section "Can you record a phone call or conversation when you do not have consent from one of the parties?" about the necessity of consent,
    not just informing.

    Why are you being absurd about this? If you inform someone that conversations on the phone are recorded and they use the phone, that constitutes consent. That's what the sign does in this case. It informs, creating consent.

    It's nice to see you actually consulted a reference, even if you did not understand what you read.


    Rick C.

    +-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Feb 23 13:50:19 2022
    On 2/22/2022 8:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck
    with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where
    the landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but
    in many states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to
    bust the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost
    of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope
    anyone else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so
    what if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times.
    My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping
    to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing
    drugs there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of
    what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than
    to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    OK, can we get over this. As I said, I saw the plans for the Shotgun
    mic, 30 years ago, I thought it was neat. Somehow I saw

    the plans posted again and thought, I could try it. I do not have a good reason, other than I no longer need to hunt and gather food,

    I have a roof over my head, I have excess income and I don't have to
    work. So this looked like fun.

     I may not think so when I try to unsolder and solder in different
    value 0402 resistors and capacitors on the TS472 pcb I have.

                                         Mikek


    --
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  • From amdx@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Wed Feb 23 16:58:51 2022
    On 2/20/2022 4:00 AM, John Walliker wrote:
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 07:22:33 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx
    <am...@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1...@dont-email.me>:
    Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.
    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD !

    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.
    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good. This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.
    There is no point in using the 14k pullup resistor and higher bias voltage (of up to a maximum of about 9V) UNLESS the mic is fed directly into the virtual earth of an op-amp with a very short connection. The op-amp that has been
    selected is over-complicated for this application as it has been designed for differential amplification. This makes it harder to use than a simple op-amp.
    There are plenty of better choices.
    For example, the Texas Instruments OPA1641 (single) or OPA1642 (dual)
    are low-noise J-FET input op-amps that would work well from a 9V battery which could also provide the mic bias voltage. There are plenty
    of other good choices, some with lower power consumption and/or
    lower cost. The circuit can be very simple - as has already been suggested. Capacitor couple the junction of the mic and pullup resistor to the -ve input of the op-amp. Keep the connection very short. Select a feedback resistor from output to -ve input to give the gain you want. (I did the calculation for
    you a while back.) Shunt the feedback resistor with a capacitor to low-pass filter the output. Set the +ve input of the op-amp to a mid-point voltage obtained with a pair of high-value resistors between ground and power. Decouple the mid-point with a large capacitor to ground.
    If you have feedback problems from fluctuations in the power supply voltage getting into the mic bias circuit, buffer the mid-point supply with the other half
    of a dual op-amp configured as a unity gain buffer and feed the mic bias resistor
    from the output of that buffer. By doing this you get a very well filtered bias
    supply. Reduce the mic bias resistor to work with the reduced supply. The resistor
    can be calculated on the basis that this mic draws about 0.5mA and works well when the voltage at the junction of the mic and bias resistor is about 2V.
    So if you have a total supply of 9V and use a buffered mid-point supply for the mic
    of 4.5V then the best bias resistor would be about 5k.

    John

    Going back to this schematic and the 2.2kΩ resistors (R4 and R5) to
    ground on the input. What do they set?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0

    What effect would changing them to 1kΩ or 5kΩ have on the operation of
    the amp?


    --
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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Feb 23 15:22:38 2022
    On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:59:04 PM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
    On 2/20/2022 4:00 AM, John Walliker wrote:
    On Sunday, 20 February 2022 at 07:22:33 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:36 -0600) it happened amdx
    <am...@knology.net> wrote in <surlrj$tld$1...@dont-email.me>:
    Thanks Jan, for now, I'm just going to use simple RC filters that I
    can construct on the PCB I bought.
    One thing about microphones that just happened to me.
    I have to align my satellite dish again, and I use my software on the PC to move it to a reference point,
    the software generates a tone so I can hear if it is pointing right,
    But PC is far away from dish...

    I have this little FM transmitter
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/fm_pic/
    and then go outside with earphones and a portable FM radio in my pocket. on a ladder moving the dish.

    That FM transmitter is about 200 mV pp audio in.
    Wanted to test if I could use a cheap electret clip on mike to pickup the beep from the PC, if the sensitivity was enough,
    without pre-amp.
    It was! I got feedback from my earplugs to the mike a meter away, LOAD ! >>
    So contemplate using simple cheap electret mikes, huge output signal!
    No over-complicated input circuits needed.
    With transmitter next to mike no cables... not sure if noise level is low enough for your application,
    but a simple pre-amp and FM 100% is very powerful.
    The OP is already using a high-sensitivity electret mic. The AOM5024 has a sensitivity of -24dBV/Pa when used with a 3V supply and 2.2k resistor. The noise
    floor is 14dB(A) spl which is very good. This mic is one of the best in its class
    and its cheap and readily available. It is VERY hard to find an outdoors environment
    which is as quiet as 14dB(A), so the noise performance of this mic is good enough.
    There is no point in using the 14k pullup resistor and higher bias voltage (of up to a maximum of about 9V) UNLESS the mic is fed directly into the virtual earth of an op-amp with a very short connection. The op-amp that has been
    selected is over-complicated for this application as it has been designed for
    differential amplification. This makes it harder to use than a simple op-amp.
    There are plenty of better choices.
    For example, the Texas Instruments OPA1641 (single) or OPA1642 (dual)
    are low-noise J-FET input op-amps that would work well from a 9V battery which could also provide the mic bias voltage. There are plenty
    of other good choices, some with lower power consumption and/or
    lower cost. The circuit can be very simple - as has already been suggested.
    Capacitor couple the junction of the mic and pullup resistor to the -ve input
    of the op-amp. Keep the connection very short. Select a feedback resistor from output to -ve input to give the gain you want. (I did the calculation for
    you a while back.) Shunt the feedback resistor with a capacitor to low-pass
    filter the output. Set the +ve input of the op-amp to a mid-point voltage obtained with a pair of high-value resistors between ground and power. Decouple the mid-point with a large capacitor to ground.
    If you have feedback problems from fluctuations in the power supply voltage
    getting into the mic bias circuit, buffer the mid-point supply with the other half
    of a dual op-amp configured as a unity gain buffer and feed the mic bias resistor
    from the output of that buffer. By doing this you get a very well filtered bias
    supply. Reduce the mic bias resistor to work with the reduced supply. The resistor
    can be calculated on the basis that this mic draws about 0.5mA and works well
    when the voltage at the junction of the mic and bias resistor is about 2V. So if you have a total supply of 9V and use a buffered mid-point supply for the mic
    of 4.5V then the best bias resistor would be about 5k.

    John

    Going back to this schematic and the 2.2kΩ resistors (R4 and R5) to
    ground on the input. What do they set?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bn9fu5r0wkk2/INA217%20with%20filters%20DB.jpg?dl=0

    What effect would changing them to 1kΩ or 5kΩ have on the operation of
    the amp?

    They set the input impedance of the amp. The 14k resistor on the mic sets the output impedance of the mic. You should understand this creates a voltage divider for the AC signal and also impacts the frequency response of the filter created by the cap.
    The RC is (14k + 2.2k) * 0.22 uF for a corner frequency of 45 Hz.

    Just to be clear, in this design there is no AC signal on the inverting input, so C2 has no purpose. The only reason for R5 is to equalize the input offset voltage caused by the input bias current. Not important in this design unless maybe you are
    using very high gains.

    You could also save the hassle of two power voltages by creating a bias point from two resistors and some caps. R4 and R5 are the only components that need to tie to it, unless the op amp requires an actual ground connection. I don't have a data sheet
    open on that. I think the grounded pin on the op amp in the schematic you have is showing a reference point for the output which might be high impedance enough to work with the same two resistors.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Feb 23 20:02:39 2022
    On 2/23/2022 2:50 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck
    with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease where
    the landlord often won't be of much more help than the police, but
    in many states if a neighbor in your complex is routinely doing
    disruptive/illegal shit next door you have entirely just cause to
    bust the lease at that point and move on, perhaps at only the cost
    of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope
    anyone else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so
    what if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10 times.
    My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping
    to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing
    drugs there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of
    what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than
    to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    OK, can we get over this. As I said, I saw the plans for the Shotgun
    mic, 30 years ago, I thought it was neat. Somehow I saw

    the plans posted again and thought, I could try it. I do not have a good reason, other than I no longer need to hunt and gather food,

    I have a roof over my head, I have excess income and I don't have to
    work. So this looked like fun.

     I may not think so when I try to unsolder and solder in different
    value 0402 resistors and capacitors on the TS472 pcb I have.

                                         Mikek



    Say could you post those plans again? Was it the ones with all the
    tubes? I was looking for that the other day also

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Feb 23 19:17:26 2022
    On 2/23/2022 7:02 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 2:50 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck
    with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease
    where the landlord often won't be of much more help than the
    police, but in many states if a neighbor in your complex is
    routinely doing disruptive/illegal shit next door you have
    entirely just cause to bust the lease at that point and move on,
    perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope
    anyone else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project, so
    what if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10
    times. My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you hoping
    to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're doing
    drugs there and someone's likely providing them. But at best none of
    what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other than
    to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    OK, can we get over this. As I said, I saw the plans for the Shotgun
    mic, 30 years ago, I thought it was neat. Somehow I saw

    the plans posted again and thought, I could try it. I do not have a
    good reason, other than I no longer need to hunt and gather food,

    I have a roof over my head, I have excess income and I don't have to
    work. So this looked like fun.

      I may not think so when I try to unsolder and solder in different
    value 0402 resistors and capacitors on the TS472 pcb I have.

                                          Mikek



    Say could you post those plans again? Was it the ones with all the
    tubes? I was looking for that the other day also

    I think this was the original article, see page 51.

    https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/60s/64/Pop-1964-06.pdf
                                    Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Feb 23 19:20:14 2022
    On 2/23/2022 7:17 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:02 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 2:50 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit
    locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck
    with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease
    where the landlord often won't be of much more help than the
    police, but in many states if a neighbor in your complex is
    routinely doing disruptive/illegal shit next door you have
    entirely just cause to bust the lease at that point and move on,
    perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope
    anyone else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project,
    so what if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10
    times. My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many

    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you
    hoping to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're
    doing drugs there and someone's likely providing them. But at best
    none of what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a
    court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other
    than to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    OK, can we get over this. As I said, I saw the plans for the Shotgun
    mic, 30 years ago, I thought it was neat. Somehow I saw

    the plans posted again and thought, I could try it. I do not have a
    good reason, other than I no longer need to hunt and gather food,

    I have a roof over my head, I have excess income and I don't have to
    work. So this looked like fun.

      I may not think so when I try to unsolder and solder in different
    value 0402 resistors and capacitors on the TS472 pcb I have.

                                          Mikek



    Say could you post those plans again? Was it the ones with all the
    tubes? I was looking for that the other day also

    I think this was the original article, see page 51.

    https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/60s/64/Pop-1964-06.pdf
                                    Mikek

     More,

    http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/government_information/intelligence_and_espionage/homebrew.military.and.espionage.electronics/servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/_gbpprorg/mil/shotgun/index.html

                                                 Mikek



    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Feb 23 21:44:27 2022
    On 2/23/2022 8:20 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:17 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:02 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 2:50 PM, amdx wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 2/22/2022 8:49 AM, amdx wrote:

    Tragic. But your time is probably better spent keeping your shit >>>>>>> locked up, put up a fence, and not being such a busy-body.

    One of the downsides of home ownership is that you can get stuck >>>>>>> with difficult neighbors for a long time, unlike with a lease
    where the landlord often won't be of much more help than the
    police, but in many states if a neighbor in your complex is
    routinely doing disruptive/illegal shit next door you have
    entirely just cause to bust the lease at that point and move on, >>>>>>> perhaps at only the cost of your security deposit, if that.

    It's usually the best plan as a tenant-at-will rather than hope
    anyone else will solve your problem for you.

    The neighbor surveillance is mostly just a reason for a project,
    so what if I can hear the chit chat for one and a half minutes,

    that gets me nothing. I could have recorded video at least 10
    times. My wife is outside much more she has seen the hand off many >>>>>>
    more time than I have.

    Yes, assuming you could overhear a conversation, what are you
    hoping to accomplish with the data is a question. You know they're
    doing drugs there and someone's likely providing them. But at best
    none of what you capture would ever be admissible as evidence in a
    court.

    Don't see how the particulars are particularly meaningful other
    than to confirm what you kinda already know.

    Conversations among druggies tend to be remarkably boring.

    OK, can we get over this. As I said, I saw the plans for the Shotgun
    mic, 30 years ago, I thought it was neat. Somehow I saw

    the plans posted again and thought, I could try it. I do not have a
    good reason, other than I no longer need to hunt and gather food,

    I have a roof over my head, I have excess income and I don't have to
    work. So this looked like fun.

      I may not think so when I try to unsolder and solder in different
    value 0402 resistors and capacitors on the TS472 pcb I have.

                                          Mikek



    Say could you post those plans again? Was it the ones with all the
    tubes? I was looking for that the other day also

    I think this was the original article, see page 51.

    https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/60s/64/Pop-1964-06.pdf
                                    Mikek

     More,

    http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/government_information/intelligence_and_espionage/homebrew.military.and.espionage.electronics/servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/_gbpprorg/mil/shotgun/index.html


                                                 Mikek



    Cool project. Explaining that one to TSA in the luggage would be
    interesting, lol

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