• This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 14:58:21 2022
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Jan 22 10:08:49 2022
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:59:47 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    I assume it was the writer who mucked up the part about, "a form of crystalline silicon known as polysilicon". Polysilicon is the opposite of crystalline silicon, hence the "poly".

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Jan 22 12:06:14 2022
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Sat Jan 22 19:21:52 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 10:08:49 -0800 (PST)) it happened Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in <8a2d8da4-0a9f-4633-a519-70d1d98af8a2n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:59:47 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    I assume it was the writer who mucked up the part about, "a form of crystalline silicon known as polysilicon". Polysilicon is
    the opposite of crystalline silicon, hence the "poly".

    Quite possible, I do not know enough about that to make a judgement
    I like his projector into a microscope idea.
    Been thinking about using a DLP projector to project a pattern on photo-PCbs, people have done that,

    There also is this guy who inspired me to buy the super cooler, he build, among other things, his own electron microscope.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdjYVF4a6iU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWESWqhD8s

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 22:26:25 2022
    On 1/22/2022 22:06, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Would be awesome if we could have chips made to order the way we have
    PCB-s nowadays... Bill said the litho tool got lost but well, some
    knowledge on how it was made must have remained.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 13:15:22 2022
    On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:26:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 22:06, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Would be awesome if we could have chips made to order the way we have
    PCB-s nowadays... Bill said the litho tool got lost but well, some
    knowledge on how it was made must have remained.

    PCBs use a lot of inkjet printing nowadays. I'd expect that a crude IC
    process could be developed around inkjet.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jan 23 00:18:28 2022
    On 1/22/2022 23:15, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:26:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 22:06, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>> This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Would be awesome if we could have chips made to order the way we have
    PCB-s nowadays... Bill said the litho tool got lost but well, some
    knowledge on how it was made must have remained.

    PCBs use a lot of inkjet printing nowadays. I'd expect that a crude IC process could be developed around inkjet.




    Well I mean top or nearly top technology PCB-s, like 4 mil multiple
    layers 0.1mm drills, I suppose the equivalent of that today for silicon
    would be within the tens of nm. One would not be held hostage by the
    whims of some marketeers deciding which processor is to have a future...

    I have not been making crude PCB-s since my 20-s, back then I did some
    using permanent markers etc. Helped learning the trade I suppose.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 14:27:38 2022
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 00:18:28 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 23:15, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:26:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 22:06, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>> This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Would be awesome if we could have chips made to order the way we have
    PCB-s nowadays... Bill said the litho tool got lost but well, some
    knowledge on how it was made must have remained.

    PCBs use a lot of inkjet printing nowadays. I'd expect that a crude IC
    process could be developed around inkjet.




    Well I mean top or nearly top technology PCB-s, like 4 mil multiple
    layers 0.1mm drills, I suppose the equivalent of that today for silicon
    would be within the tens of nm. One would not be held hostage by the
    whims of some marketeers deciding which processor is to have a future...

    I have not been making crude PCB-s since my 20-s, back then I did some
    using permanent markers etc. Helped learning the trade I suppose.

    I think that some of the earliest ICs were patterned with silk
    screens. So were PCBs.



    --

    I yam what I yam - Popeye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jan 23 01:06:30 2022
    On 1/23/2022 0:27, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 00:18:28 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 23:15, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:26:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 1/22/2022 22:06, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Would be awesome if we could have chips made to order the way we have
    PCB-s nowadays... Bill said the litho tool got lost but well, some
    knowledge on how it was made must have remained.

    PCBs use a lot of inkjet printing nowadays. I'd expect that a crude IC
    process could be developed around inkjet.




    Well I mean top or nearly top technology PCB-s, like 4 mil multiple
    layers 0.1mm drills, I suppose the equivalent of that today for silicon
    would be within the tens of nm. One would not be held hostage by the
    whims of some marketeers deciding which processor is to have a future...

    I have not been making crude PCB-s since my 20-s, back then I did some
    using permanent markers etc. Helped learning the trade I suppose.

    I think that some of the earliest ICs were patterned with silk
    screens. So were PCBs.




    I remember the day when they took a photograph of what the PCB would be
    and then used the film like they now do after photoplotting (well, the mechanical photoplotters of some 30 years ago are gone I suppose, the
    Gerber format meant for them is pretty much alive though (back then
    I could implement it but I had no data about the excellon format
    for the drilling machines; I got hold of a punched tape and snooped
    it from it.. :-).
    Before that my first CPU board (early 80-s, I was in my late 20-s,
    came later to the party) was photographed on that whole-room camera,
    no plots yet. It took me months to "draw" it (actually I used
    thin red scotch tapes and stuck them on a plastic transparent millimeter "paper"). I was working as a turner back then, was convenient for
    cutting the scotch tapes to say 1mm or may be I went below that
    (scale for photo was 2:1), can't remember. Here is what remains of
    that first CPU board of mine, must be still somewhere around: http://tgi-sci.com/misc/grany09.gif

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Rick C on Sun Jan 23 06:11:22 2022
    On 2022-01-22, Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:59:47 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    I assume it was the writer who mucked up the part about, "a form of crystalline silicon known as polysilicon". Polysilicon is the
    opposite of crystalline silicon, hence the "poly".

    It's not amorphous (which is a true opposite solid state to crystaline)
    It's polycrystaline. So it's still crystalised silicon.
    It's significantly cheaper than monocrystaline silicon.



    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Sun Jan 23 07:23:54 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <0cf15665-e706-4327-a126-32a61feb8e92n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip,

    <quote>
    Then his homemade photolithography machine beamed on his design: a grid of 12 circuits,
    each with 100 transistors (and a dancing bear), 1,200 transistors in all.
    <end quote>

    so 100 per circuit, 12 circuits on a 'wafer' ?


    but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex >the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    He is now 22, wait a few more years what else he comes up with.
    And then China gets into it
    Maybe your own chip-making machine on ebay for $999.99 .....
    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Sun Jan 23 07:55:42 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Jan 2022 01:06:30 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ssi2lo$r14$1@dont-email.me>:

    I remember the day when they took a photograph of what the PCB would be
    and then used the film like they now do after photoplotting (well, the >mechanical photoplotters of some 30 years ago are gone I suppose, the
    Gerber format meant for them is pretty much alive though (back then
    I could implement it but I had no data about the excellon format
    for the drilling machines; I got hold of a punched tape and snooped
    it from it.. :-).
    Before that my first CPU board (early 80-s, I was in my late 20-s,
    came later to the party) was photographed on that whole-room camera,
    no plots yet. It took me months to "draw" it (actually I used
    thin red scotch tapes and stuck them on a plastic transparent millimeter >"paper"). I was working as a turner back then, was convenient for
    cutting the scotch tapes to say 1mm or may be I went below that
    (scale for photo was 2:1), can't remember. Here is what remains of
    that first CPU board of mine, must be still somewhere around: >http://tgi-sci.com/misc/grany09.gif

    This was much faster, one day torn around:
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_top.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_bottom.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/soundcard_top.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
    all done in the evenings and weekends in the eighties.

    concepts use peeseebee why
    !

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Jan 23 14:01:40 2022
    On 1/23/2022 9:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Jan 2022 01:06:30 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ssi2lo$r14$1@dont-email.me>:

    I remember the day when they took a photograph of what the PCB would be
    and then used the film like they now do after photoplotting (well, the
    mechanical photoplotters of some 30 years ago are gone I suppose, the
    Gerber format meant for them is pretty much alive though (back then
    I could implement it but I had no data about the excellon format
    for the drilling machines; I got hold of a punched tape and snooped
    it from it.. :-).
    Before that my first CPU board (early 80-s, I was in my late 20-s,
    came later to the party) was photographed on that whole-room camera,
    no plots yet. It took me months to "draw" it (actually I used
    thin red scotch tapes and stuck them on a plastic transparent millimeter
    "paper"). I was working as a turner back then, was convenient for
    cutting the scotch tapes to say 1mm or may be I went below that
    (scale for photo was 2:1), can't remember. Here is what remains of
    that first CPU board of mine, must be still somewhere around:
    http://tgi-sci.com/misc/grany09.gif

    This was much faster, one day torn around:
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_top.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_bottom.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/soundcard_top.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
    all done in the evenings and weekends in the eighties.

    concepts use peeseebee why
    !



    My first graphics card for this system was made using the same
    wiring technology only I had got hold of some teflon wire, 0.5
    or 0.7mm external diameter and the wiring was on the bottom side.
    Teflon made it much easier, no burnt insulation while the soldering
    tip could just go anywhere. Was a proud 320x240 pixels, 2 bits per
    pixel - on a mono screen it was just enough to write my first graphics
    editor and use it to design the next CPU board which got already
    photoplotted (it was still a 6809 one though).
    I think on that graphics card I had even put a pallete RAM in the
    form of a 74170.... Two bits in, was it 4 bits out, I don't remember.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Sun Jan 23 13:35:59 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Jan 2022 14:01:40 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ssjg37$amt$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 1/23/2022 9:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Jan 2022 01:06:30 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ssi2lo$r14$1@dont-email.me>:

    I remember the day when they took a photograph of what the PCB would be
    and then used the film like they now do after photoplotting (well, the
    mechanical photoplotters of some 30 years ago are gone I suppose, the
    Gerber format meant for them is pretty much alive though (back then
    I could implement it but I had no data about the excellon format
    for the drilling machines; I got hold of a punched tape and snooped
    it from it.. :-).
    Before that my first CPU board (early 80-s, I was in my late 20-s,
    came later to the party) was photographed on that whole-room camera,
    no plots yet. It took me months to "draw" it (actually I used
    thin red scotch tapes and stuck them on a plastic transparent millimeter >>> "paper"). I was working as a turner back then, was convenient for
    cutting the scotch tapes to say 1mm or may be I went below that
    (scale for photo was 2:1), can't remember. Here is what remains of
    that first CPU board of mine, must be still somewhere around:
    http://tgi-sci.com/misc/grany09.gif

    This was much faster, one day torn around:
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_top.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_bottom.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg
    http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/soundcard_top.jpg

    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
    all done in the evenings and weekends in the eighties.

    concepts use peeseebee why
    !



    My first graphics card for this system was made using the same
    wiring technology only I had got hold of some teflon wire, 0.5
    or 0.7mm external diameter and the wiring was on the bottom side.
    Teflon made it much easier, no burnt insulation while the soldering
    tip could just go anywhere. Was a proud 320x240 pixels, 2 bits per
    pixel - on a mono screen it was just enough to write my first graphics
    editor and use it to design the next CPU board which got already
    photoplotted (it was still a 6809 one though).
    I think on that graphics card I had even put a pallete RAM in the
    form of a 74170.... Two bits in, was it 4 bits out, I don't remember.

    stripped flatcable still works for me to this day, about 1 GHz board:
    http://panteltje.com/pub/raspberry_pi_datv_transmitter_test_setup_IMG_3937.JPG
    http://panteltje.com/pub/test_board_wiring_side_IMG_3921.GIF
    if you look close on the right you see the RF part is not with flat cable
    note all the SMDs on the big chip adaptor.
    http://panteltje.com/pub/xdipo_locked_to_raspberry_pi_datv_transmitter_IMG_3938.JPG
    who needs peeseebees ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Sun Jan 23 23:07:25 2022
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 07:23:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd ><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in ><0cf15665-e706-4327-a126-32a61feb8e92n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip,

    <quote>
    Then his homemade photolithography machine beamed on his design: a grid of 12 circuits,
    each with 100 transistors (and a dancing bear), 1,200 transistors in all. ><end quote>

    so 100 per circuit, 12 circuits on a 'wafer' ?


    but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex >>the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    He is now 22, wait a few more years what else he comes up with.
    And then China gets into it
    Maybe your own chip-making machine on ebay for $999.99 .....
    :-)

    Very impressive !

    At 22 years old, how does he pay for all that nice stuff he's got ?
    The HP gear and microscope, etc ?

    Somehow I don't think he has to have a day job unless he just does
    this in his spare time.

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 24 05:33:18 2022
    On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 7:06:18 AM UTC+11, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    Only claims 100 on a chip, but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    Not any longer. I only worked for Cambridge Instruments from 1983 to 1991. When I last saw an electron beam microfabricator it was at the University of New South Wales (being used by their quantum computer team) and it was a Raith machine.

    https://raith.com/electron-beam-lithography-systems/

    Whose electron microscope column or column they actually use isn't spelled out on the website.

    The machines that Cambridge Instruments sold went for about a million dollars each back then. It's not a high volume product, and it does require a lot of precision engineering, so the price won't have gone down all that much. Not really startup in a
    garage material. Class 10 clean areas aren't cheap either.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From wmartin@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Jan 24 11:02:11 2022
    On 1/22/22 06:58, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    Very cool! In California, he would likely be jailed for having "gasp!" chemicals in his garage! Certainly must be making bombs...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From three_jeeps@21:1/5 to boB on Mon Jan 24 11:40:12 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:07:35 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 07:23:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <0cf15665-e706-4327...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip,

    <quote>
    Then his homemade photolithography machine beamed on his design: a grid of 12 circuits,

    each with 100 transistors (and a dancing bear), 1,200 transistors in all. ><end quote>

    so 100 per circuit, 12 circuits on a 'wafer' ?


    but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex >>the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    He is now 22, wait a few more years what else he comes up with.
    And then China gets into it
    Maybe your own chip-making machine on ebay for $999.99 .....
    :-)
    Very impressive !

    At 22 years old, how does he pay for all that nice stuff he's got ?
    The HP gear and microscope, etc ?

    Somehow I don't think he has to have a day job unless he just does
    this in his spare time.

    boB
    He is a CMU student. Knowing first hand the amount of work that gets thrown at ECE students, I am surprised he has a lot of time to devote to his hobby.
    Yea, I wonder about the $s as well.
    J

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to wwm@wwmartin.net on Tue Jan 25 10:44:02 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:02:11 -0800) it happened wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> wrote in <ssmt3l$3g8$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 1/22/22 06:58, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    Very cool! In California, he would likely be jailed for having "gasp!" >chemicals in his garage! Certainly must be making bombs...

    Yes this is a common problem with society these days, even kitchen knives are forbidden?
    It will all change after the next nu-culear war and making sausages on the hot plutonium.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brent Locher@21:1/5 to boB on Wed Jan 26 06:38:27 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:07:35 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 07:23:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <0cf15665-e706-4327...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip,

    <quote>
    Then his homemade photolithography machine beamed on his design: a grid of 12 circuits,
    each with 100 transistors (and a dancing bear), 1,200 transistors in all. ><end quote>

    so 100 per circuit, 12 circuits on a 'wafer' ?


    but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex >>the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    He is now 22, wait a few more years what else he comes up with.
    And then China gets into it
    Maybe your own chip-making machine on ebay for $999.99 .....
    :-)
    Very impressive !

    At 22 years old, how does he pay for all that nice stuff he's got ?
    The HP gear and microscope, etc ?

    Somehow I don't think he has to have a day job unless he just does
    this in his spare time.

    boB
    A rich parent who is with it will be far happier seeing his money go into scopes and electronics vs drugs and rehab. A stint in rehab for kids of wealthy parents will cost more than his lab setup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Locher on Wed Jan 26 14:57:30 2022
    On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jan 2022 06:38:27 -0800 (PST)) it happened Brent
    Locher <blocher@columbus.rr.com> wrote in <2f68efff-30f9-470e-be57-a9621113e95cn@googlegroups.com>:

    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:07:35 AM UTC-5, boB wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 07:23:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd >> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <0cf15665-e706-4327...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:59:47 AM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    Only claims 100 on a chip,

    <quote>
    Then his homemade photolithography machine beamed on his design: a grid of 12 circuits,
    each with 100 transistors (and a dancing bear), 1,200 transistors in all. >> ><end quote>

    so 100 per circuit, 12 circuits on a 'wafer' ?


    but the metallization doesn't connect to that many; I'm not sure how complex
    the circuitry can be, but it looks like a rather simpler circuit, like a differential pair and some
    current mirrors. It could hold an op amp, that uses external bias resistors (don't see
    any sign of FET or CMOS or both NPN and PNP transistor types).

    His basic idea, it seems, is that small-scale production is possible and instructive.
    Imagine a six-man shop that can produce integrated devices with quick turnaround.
    Would that be a useful addition to a maze of megacorporations with ever-changing
    off-the-shelf designs, big plants, and long turnaround, but cryptic spec sheets
    and big foundry toolchain complexities (and surcharges)?

    For prototypes, heck yes. Bill Sloman can sell 'em some e-beam litho tools.

    He is now 22, wait a few more years what else he comes up with.
    And then China gets into it
    Maybe your own chip-making machine on ebay for $999.99 .....
    :-)
    Very impressive !

    At 22 years old, how does he pay for all that nice stuff he's got ?
    The HP gear and microscope, etc ?

    Somehow I don't think he has to have a day job unless he just does
    this in his spare time.

    boB
    A rich parent who is with it will be far happier seeing his money go into scopes and electronics vs drugs and rehab. A stint in
    rehab for kids of wealthy parents will cost more than his lab setup

    At 22 I was working and accumulating all sort of electronics at home... rented bedsit in other city than my parents.
    Build a TV and designed and build a vidicon TV camera... 1968
    That landed me a job at the national TV network the next year, and more electronics accumulated at home.
    Addiction to electronics perhaps.
    Nothing much changed to this day :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Jan 27 22:09:01 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:02:11 -0800) it happened wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> wrote in <ssmt3l$3g8$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 1/22/22 06:58, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    Very cool! In California, he would likely be jailed for having "gasp!" >>chemicals in his garage! Certainly must be making bombs...

    Yes this is a common problem with society these days, even kitchen knives are forbidden?
    It will all change after the next nu-culear war and making sausages on the hot plutonium.

    It's even more of a CA problem. My favorite is how it's illegal to use 100
    or even 99% isopropyl alcohol there. You're seriously supposed to cut it
    to 80% (or something like that) or less with water or acetone. They
    actually fine companies for selling high grade isopropyl alcohol there
    too. Clearly all other problems been solved.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cydrome Leader on Thu Jan 27 18:41:18 2022
    On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:09:08 AM UTC+11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:02:11 -0800) it happened wmartin <w...@wwmartin.net> wrote in <ssmt3l$3g8$1...@dont-email.me>:
    On 1/22/22 06:58, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    It's even more of a CA problem. My favorite is how it's illegal to use 100 or even 99% isopropyl alcohol there. You're seriously supposed to cut it
    to 80% (or something like that) or less with water or acetone. They
    actually fine companies for selling high grade isopropyl alcohol there
    too. Clearly all other problems been solved.

    Sounds bizarre. Analytical grade isopropyl alcohol has to be 99% pure (or better), and chemical supply companies have to be able to ship it to chemical laboratories or fine chemical manufacturing plants. What you local pharmacist can sell over the
    counter may be more restricted.

    Are you sure that you know what you are talking about?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Fri Jan 28 09:07:09 2022
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...

    How can he connect it? Did he get a wire bond machine from ebay too?

    The wire bond machines have always been the part of the process that I
    find most impressive, because they combine precision with fast moving
    parts.


    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Fri Jan 28 15:16:38 2022
    Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
    On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:09:08 AM UTC+11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:02:11 -0800) it happened wmartin <w...@wwmartin.net> wrote in <ssmt3l$3g8$1...@dont-email.me>:
    On 1/22/22 06:58, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    It's even more of a CA problem. My favorite is how it's illegal to use 100 >> or even 99% isopropyl alcohol there. You're seriously supposed to cut it
    to 80% (or something like that) or less with water or acetone. They
    actually fine companies for selling high grade isopropyl alcohol there
    too. Clearly all other problems been solved.

    Sounds bizarre. Analytical grade isopropyl alcohol has to be 99% pure (or better), and chemical supply companies have to be able to ship it to chemical laboratories or fine chemical manufacturing plants. What you local pharmacist can sell over the
    counter may be more restricted.

    Are you sure that you know what you are talking about?

    Yeah, I do.

    top matchs are all fines or settlements for selling standard products for industry in the shithole known as CA

    https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/search/site?keys=isopropyl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Tom Del Rosso on Fri Jan 28 11:51:18 2022
    On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    How can he connect it? Did he get a wire bond machine from ebay too?

    The wire bond machines have always been the part of the process that I
    find most impressive, because they combine precision with fast moving
    parts.

    You mean like pick and place machines? They may not have quite as much accuracy, but they are certainly in the same ball park. I see mentions of 0.001" or 25 um. How accurate are wire bonding machines? I see one mention of 2.5 um. So maybe 10x?

    Pick and Place has to maintain these numbers over distances ranging towards a meter. Wire bonding only needs to operate over a range of a cm or so. I know wire bonding is very fast, but for pick and place the long distance and the weight of the object
    being placed is much more in some cases. Handling a wide range of sizes is not easy either. I wonder just how long they maintain these specs as they wear?

    I find it interesting to watch a pick and place operate. One I saw had multiple heads so multiple pieces could be picked up with less movement while being placed.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Rick C on Fri Jan 28 21:01:23 2022
    Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    This 22-year-old builds chips in his parents\u2019 garage
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/this-22-year-old-builds-chips-in-his-parents-garage/

    more than 1000 transistors on it...
    How can he connect it? Did he get a wire bond machine from ebay too?

    The wire bond machines have always been the part of the process that I
    find most impressive, because they combine precision with fast moving
    parts.

    You mean like pick and place machines? They may not have quite as much accuracy, but they are certainly in the same ball park. I see mentions of 0.001" or 25 um. How accurate are wire bonding machines? I see one mention of 2.5 um. So maybe 10x?

    Pick and Place has to maintain these numbers over distances ranging towards a meter. Wire bonding only needs to operate over a range of a cm or so. I know wire bonding is very fast, but for pick and place the long distance and the weight of the
    object being placed is much more in some cases. Handling a wide range of sizes is not easy either. I wonder just how long they maintain these specs as they wear?

    I find it interesting to watch a pick and place operate. One I saw had multiple heads so multiple pieces could be picked up with less movement while being placed.

    A manually operated wire bonder doesn't look any different from a fancy
    optical microscope. I was recently told quite a bit of this work is still
    done by hand. The one I saw had no wire instaled, so I didn't get to play
    with it for real.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)