I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.
I think I've had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.
I think I've had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won't need right away but they've been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.
I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.I have had bad luck with Duracell batteries. They seem to leak when
I think I've had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won't need right away but they've been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.
I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.
I think I've had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I have had bad luck with Duracell batteries. They seem to leak when
used in items that are low usage. The emergency flashlight in my bedside >table and the batteries in my thermostat for example. I have had to
spend quite a bit of time, off and on, cleaning contacts when I used >Duracell.
Now I always use Energizer batteries. I have never had any of them
leak.
I have a rather simple-minded approach to batteries, and so far that has paid off:
a) Use Name-Brand only. Those that guarantee 'full replacement' of any item damaged by their failure. No others, no matter how attractive the price.
b) Do not leave standard (non-hard-wired rechargeable) batteries in-situ unless they are checked every six (6) months.
c) Pay attention to self-discharge rates when choosing types.
d) Pay attention to date-codes.
e) Dispose of 'spent' batteries as hazardous landfill - our township accepts any and all sorts of batteries from all residents at no cost.
Pretty much covers it.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
I have a rather simple-minded approach to batteries, and so far that has paid off:[snip]
Pretty much covers it.
What I've heard is that this leakage problem is tied to the removal of >mercury from the alkaline-battery chemistry. In the older batteries,
a small amount of a mercury compound acts as some sort of scavenger in
the electrochemistry, binding up one of the post-discharge chemical
products somehow. Without the mercury, even a partial discharge of
the battery triggers a corrosive process which attacks the metal
in the battery's outer shell, and leaks result.
Any chance you have some references or maybe a research report? I've
been chasing this one for years without any luck.
In article <ka4jdh5osisg7fv9q19f6kn7bskosv9s7e@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Any chance you have some references or maybe a research report? I've
been chasing this one for years without any luck.
Nope, I'm afraid not. All I have is diffusion-of-story, not anywhere
near as concentrated as the two boluses you just cited :-)
I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.
I think I've had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won't need right away but they've been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.
f) Watch out for "phantom loads" or "parasitic drain", where the
device does not quite turn off completely and slowly discharges the
battery. Digital calipers are a common example.
f) Watch out for "phantom loads" or "parasitic drain", where the
device does not quite turn off completely and slowly discharges the
battery. Digital calipers are a common example.
Phantom (or expensive) load devices keep batteries only when in use. Even the one with the niggly little access screws.
Starrett tools are pricey enough to make the bit of extra trouble worth it.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
They recommend rechargeable batteries best.
The "Rayovac" brand primarily is
the worst and leaks the most (in most cases- except for one). The dollar store batteries are made with zinc
and another chemical are not recommended and do not last as long.
The key is alkaline batteries are good, but they have gone up in price. For the costs involved, you
can get a rechargeable battery and have it be more serviceable in the long run.
If you are dead set
on getting or using alkaline batteries as many devices say you can use, you may consider getting
an alkaline battery charger, so you can pull the batteries out of the device and utilize the charger
to charge them. The chargers will even do 9-volt alkaline batteries as well. With batteries running
up in cost to $5.00 each for alkaline, it is not a bad idea to get an alkaline recharger device, if you
use alkaline batteries.
For long term storage, the recommendations for batteries are drain the power down 50% of duty
cycle (power capacity).
Store in a cool place (refrigeration). When you go to use them, you need
to charge them up full on a trickle charge or use the recharger.
Make sure they are at 100% before
you use them and then run the down fully. Use the recharger and you are back to normal usage.
Consider other variables, excessive heat, humidity, moisture, the deep freeze, and other conditions.
All batteries in some way are a chemistry problem. The chemical composition each is made of has
to factor in the appropriate application you intend to use the battery for and how often you use the
device (especially timers and other appliances that have intermittent or from time to time use).
Just thought I would impart this advice and encourage you to read several links from the google
search quoted. God Bless you and have a great day.
Sincerely,
Charles Lucas
--
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won't need right away but they've been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.
P.S. It depends on the what materials the cases are composed of that holds the chemistry inside of the casing.
Quality can vary. Buyer Beware and avoid sticker shock on the high prices of batteries. They have really gone up.
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will haveI think you're confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.
For NiMH cells, I use Eneloop LSD (low self discharge cells). I've
tested their ability to hold a charge and found them to 80% charged at
1 years.
They recommend rechargeable batteries best.Agreed, especially LiIon or battery yet, LiFePO4.
The "Rayovac" brand primarily isMost alkaline batteries are made with zinc. Notice how often zinc is mentioned in the Wikipedia article: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery>
the worst and leaks the most (in most cases- except for one). The dollar store batteries are made with zinc
and another chemical are not recommended and do not last as long.
The key is alkaline batteries are good, but they have gone up in price. For the costs involved, youRechargeable batteries have also increased in cost.
can get a rechargeable battery and have it be more serviceable in the long run.
If you are dead setWRONG! Conventional alkaline cells are not rechargeable. If you
on getting or using alkaline batteries as many devices say you can use, you may consider getting
an alkaline battery charger, so you can pull the batteries out of the device and utilize the charger
to charge them. The chargers will even do 9-volt alkaline batteries as well. With batteries running
up in cost to $5.00 each for alkaline, it is not a bad idea to get an alkaline recharger device, if you
use alkaline batteries.
look, I think it even says so on the package. However, there are
rechargeable alkaline cells that can be PARTIALLY recharged. Unlike
other rechargeable chemistries, rechargeable alkaline cells recover an
ever decreasing percentage of full charge until they are useless. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery>
The also have a miserable self discharge time, where they are dead if
not used within 6 months. The combination of these "features" make rechargeable alkaline cells somewhat useless.
For long term storage, the recommendations for batteries are drain the power down 50% of dutyThat's the common recommendation for rechargeable cells. It's
cycle (power capacity).
generally true for LiIon. It's not true for NiMH. In reality, the
50% charge storage recommendation is to make the batteries safe for
shipping:
<https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_032.htm> <https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_US/pack_ship_batteries.pdf> "In accordance with IATA, all lithium ion batteries (without
equipment) shipped by air must not exceed 30% SoC."
Store in a cool place (refrigeration). When you go to use them, you needNot exactly. Each chemistry has its own charge profile. For example,
to charge them up full on a trickle charge or use the recharger.
the best way to kill a random battery is to "fast charge" it. Also,
trickle chargers don't work well with some chemistries. Use a charger
that matches the manufacturers recommendations for the battery
chemistry.
Make sure they are at 100% beforeRunning LiIon, NiCd, NiMH, and lead-acid batteries to zero are a great
you use them and then run the down fully. Use the recharger and you are back to normal usage.
way to kill them. That why LiIon battery packs come with a BMS
(battery management system) PC board to prevent you from completely discharging the battery. For a time, NiCd cells did have a "memory
effect" problem which could be reversed by discharging to zero, but
that's no longer the case with modern battery chemistries.
Consider other variables, excessive heat, humidity, moisture, the deep freeze, and other conditions.
All batteries in some way are a chemistry problem. The chemical composition each is made of has
to factor in the appropriate application you intend to use the battery for and how often you use the
device (especially timers and other appliances that have intermittent or from time to time use).
Just thought I would impart this advice and encourage you to read several links from the google
search quoted. God Bless you and have a great day.
Well, you're off to a bad start in the information business. However,
don't take it personally. Understanding the characteristics of
various battery chemistries is tricky and often confusing. There's
also quite a bit of bad advice on the internet. I suggest skimming
this site for better information. There are things I disagree with on
the site, but it's better than most:
<https://batteryuniversity.com>
Sincerely,
Charles Lucas
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won't need right away but they've been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.
P.S. It depends on the what materials the cases are composed of that holds the chemistry inside of the casing.--
Quality can vary. Buyer Beware and avoid sticker shock on the high prices of batteries. They have really gone up.
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 10:45:32 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
<charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will haveI think you're confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.
Manufacturers can say anything for their marketing and to get your money out of you. I have rarely ever seen
a product live up to its claim- especially in regards to time. Buyer Beware. I am inclined to think that in regards
to batteries, the data about them is made up on longevity. Then it depends upon the conditions that are subjected
to that. Tell me, who really tests these batteries anyways to determine how long they last?
I really appreciate the information you had posted on the different battery chemistries out there. Yes,
they are confusing. I am not a chemist (although I know batteries require chemicals to work and that
they work within a range of temperatures and specific gravities)- I am a tech. Different batteries do a
bit of a different kind of thing, even though there are variations all over the place. I appreciate the
information.
On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:48:38 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 10:45:32 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
<charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will haveI think you're confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.
Manufacturers can say anything for their marketing and to get your money out of you. I have rarely ever seenWell, just about any manufacturer that wants to sell products in the
a product live up to its claim- especially in regards to time. Buyer Beware. I am inclined to think that in regards
to batteries, the data about them is made up on longevity. Then it depends upon the conditions that are subjected
to that. Tell me, who really tests these batteries anyways to determine how long they last?
USA or EU dreads the day when they receive a letter from an attorney announcing a class action lawsuit on behalf of a currently unspecified
mob of "victims" by their product not living up to advertised
specifications. <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energizer-duracell-lawsuit/duracell-energizer-end-lawsuits-over-battery-life-claims-idUSKBN28H2XM>
If Costco or Kirkland specifies a 7-year *SHELF* life for their AAA
alkaline cells, they had better be certain that the batteries will not
be dead on arrival after 7 years of sitting on the shelf. <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>
I'm dead tired right now and don't want to go looking for battery test methods and standards. There should be something in here: <https://espec.com/na/chamber_faq/answer/battery_test_methods_and_specifications>
<https://batterystandards.info> <https://www.ul.com/services/battery-safety-testing>
Lots of battery test labs found using Google: <https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+test+lab>
I guess I should mention that the "life" of a battery is rather
ambiguous. The first questions is which life test?
Shelf life, run time, cycle life (number of charge cycles) and all the aforementioned lives under adverse environmental conditions (hot,
cold, humidity, immersion, altitude, various gases, explosion proof,
etc). <https://www.batteryuniverse.com/blog/battery-efficiency/how-long-should-batteries-last/>
I would NOT expect to see laboratory test results for batteries found
on eBay or Amazon, but retail, industrial, commercial, aviation, construction, and other mission critical applications demand lab tests
and certifications before they'll buy anything that might ruin their
day.
I really appreciate the information you had posted on the different battery chemistries out there. Yes,Y'er welcome. Much of what I've done in my checkered past has
they are confusing. I am not a chemist (although I know batteries require chemicals to work and that
they work within a range of temperatures and specific gravities)- I am a tech. Different batteries do a
bit of a different kind of thing, even though there are variations all over the place. I appreciate the
information.
involved some flavor of chemistry. I survived some classes in
college, but the rest I learned by reading the books and "Learn by Destroying". I still have the scorch marks on my Formica workbench
and oak kitchen table. I'm retired now, so I spend my time watching
others repeat my mistakes on YouTube. However, you don't really need
to know much about chemistry to work with batteries. I believe it's
more important to learn about the electronics that are wrapped around
the battery and which are used to charge the battery. For example,
the all important ESR (equivalent series resistance), which is the
basis for what separates a good battery from a dead battery, can be understood and used without much knowledge of the chemical reactions involved.
I mentioned Battery University. I think you'll also find these sites interesting and useful:
<https://www.candlepowerforums.com>
<https://budgetlightforum.com>
Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
In the late 1980's and into
the early 1990's, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery "recharger", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
responses you made to the contrary in your replies. Would you clarify what this product
- the alkaline battery 'recharger' as Archer claims it was- actually did then since this
company actually made that claim? I even bought one- although it was 30 years ago when I
did. This is a mystery I would like to solve. Also, by asking this, I am not going contrary to
what you said- I would just like to know to put the issue to bed for good. I really appreciate
your valued opinion and request your clarification on this.
the early 1990's, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery "recharger", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
"Did Radio Shack sell alkaline battery chargers?" ><https://www.google.com/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+%22alkaline%22+battery+chargers%3F&tbm=isch>
<https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+alkaline+battery+chargers%3F&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle>
Nothing found. If Google and Bing can't find it, it doesn't exist.
In <iegrdhd25h3l3e42kar2relej48esdelq4@4ax.com> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
[lots snipped]
the early 1990's, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery "recharger", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
"Did Radio Shack sell alkaline battery chargers?" >><https://www.google.com/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+%22alkaline%22+battery+chargers%3F&tbm=isch>
<https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+alkaline+battery+chargers%3F&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle>
Nothing found. If Google and Bing can't find it, it doesn't exist.
Gotta disagree. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing alkaline
chargers at Radio Shack 1990ish as we looked into them for
use with our Motorola alpha numeric pagers.
They sucked.
There was also a mass market alkaline charger hawked on TV
called "Buddy" by one of the game show hosts. I'm picturing him in
my mind but drawing a blank on his name.
Ah, yes, it was Dick Clark.
https://www.ebay.com/p/2254455804
.......... If the name includes amazing, super, magic, miracle,
amazing, ultra, ultimate or other superlatives, it's usually junk.
Such junk eventually fades away, only to be resurrected from the dead
every few years.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 23:06:53 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
<dan...@panix.com> wrote:
In <iegrdhd25h3l3e42k...@4ax.com> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> writes:
[lots snipped]
the early 1990's, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery "recharger", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
"Did Radio Shack sell alkaline battery chargers?" >><https://www.google.com/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+%22alkaline%22+battery+chargers%3F&tbm=isch>
<https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+alkaline+battery+chargers%3F&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle>
Nothing found. If Google and Bing can't find it, it doesn't exist.
Gotta disagree. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing alkaline
chargers at Radio Shack 1990ish as we looked into them for
use with our Motorola alpha numeric pagers.
They sucked.There are various copies of Radio Shack catalogs online. <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com>
1989: <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1989_radioshack_catalog.html> Index on Pg 92. NiCd batteries and chargers start on Pg 141 and
alkalines on Page 143. I didn't find anything that looked like an
alkaline charger. Probably too early.
1993: <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1993_radioshack_catalog.html> Index on Pg 170. Battery chargers on Pg 88. There are some NiCd
chargers, but no alkaline chargers.
1996: <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1996_radioshack_catalog.html> Index on Pg 218. Battery chargers on Pg 176, 212-213, 216. NiCd
chargers, but no alkaline chargers.
2000: <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/2000_radioshack_catalog.html> Index on Pg 396. Chargers now have their own section under "Chargers"
listed by type. Nothing that says "universal" or "alkaline".
2004-2005: <https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/2004-05_radioshack_catalog.html>
Index on Pg 210. Same as 2000 with NiMH added.
Unless I missed something, there are no alkaline or universal chargers
in the catalogs.
There was also a mass market alkaline charger hawked on TV
called "Buddy" by one of the game show hosts. I'm picturing him in
my mind but drawing a blank on his name.
Ah, yes, it was Dick Clark.
https://www.ebay.com/p/2254455804Nice find. If the name includes amazing, super, magic, miracle,
amazing, ultra, ultimate or other superlatives, it's usually junk.
Such junk eventually fades away, only to be resurrected from the dead
every few years. These days, I'm finding numerous scams on YouTube advertising. Here's one example from the 1950's that keeps
re-appearing:
"How to Convert an Electrical Outlet to an Antenna" <https://itstillworks.com/13582317/how-to-convert-an-electrical-outlet-to-an-antenna>
More of the same: <https://www.google.com/search?q=turn+your+house+wiring+into+an+antenna> These days, it's not TV antennas and alkaline battery chargers. It's
magic technologies to fast charge your phone, make your EV go farther,
or revive your storage batteries from the dead. They're not really
sold to consumers directly, but rather as an investment scam, creative financing, or early adopters discount pricing. I guess this is now
called progress.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On 7/25/2022 10:16 PM, Charles Lucas wrote:Cj0KCQjw_viWBhD8ARIsAH1mCd7avDuQlJDgVRLgiu3Xv3qdGA6kPwLn7ntr7T0bB7fFuW7glChXbpMaAuuJEALw_wcB
<snip>
I found this link that prominently says "alkaline" and the charger was made by
Buddy-L. I nicknamed them "battery buddy" 30 + years ago (about 1990). Click
on this link and you will see. Thanks for everything. After the conversation and
my faulty memory, I thought I would do some digging. So, the link is right here.
Click below.
https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m75188640508/?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16711599291&utm_content=t0&adgroup=130207367930&network=g&device=c&merchant_id=126358573&product_id=m75188640508&product_id=1645796691995&gclid=
That link is to sell an old Buddy-L . The link does NOT
support the idea that alkaline batteries are a good candidate
for recharging. They are NOT. Under some limited conditions
you can get a few recharges with them, as Jeff already told you.
Examples of good rechargeable chemistries include NiMh, NiCd,
PBS04 and various Lithiums. These can be recharged hundreds
of times.
Here's a link that you might wish to read: https://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/charging-alkalines.html
You might consider experimenting with alkaline batteries on
your own, so that you can know from your own experience how
they work as rechargeables.
Thanks,
Ed
<snipped remainder>
I found this link that prominently says "alkaline" and the charger was made byCj0KCQjw_viWBhD8ARIsAH1mCd7avDuQlJDgVRLgiu3Xv3qdGA6kPwLn7ntr7T0bB7fFuW7glChXbpMaAuuJEALw_wcB
Buddy-L. I nicknamed them "battery buddy" 30 + years ago (about 1990). Click on this link and you will see. Thanks for everything. After the conversation and
my faulty memory, I thought I would do some digging. So, the link is right here.
Click below.
https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m75188640508/?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16711599291&utm_content=t0&adgroup=130207367930&network=g&device=c&merchant_id=126358573&product_id=m75188640508&product_id=1645796691995&gclid=
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 293 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 223:11:11 |
| Calls: | 6,623 |
| Calls today: | 5 |
| Files: | 12,171 |
| Messages: | 5,318,354 |
