Just curious - it's puzzling, but I have no need for information.

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them. I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird:
"IC1790" (not 1N....). There is also "IN-COM". They are axial top-hat package.

The more I looked without finding anything, the more curious that I
became. Any help would be a relief.

Thanks, Bob

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 07.04.22 17:13, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Just curious - it's puzzling, but I have no need for information.

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them. I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird: "IC1790" (not 1N....). There is also "IN-COM". They are axial top-hat package.

The more I looked without finding anything, the more curious that I
became. Any help would be a relief.

Thanks, Bob

One picture is worth a thousand words.

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On 4/7/2022 12:26 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

On 4/7/2022 11:24 AM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

One picture is worth a thousand words.

Maybe ... https://imgur.com/PShcDYZ

The "brim" is the cathode.

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On 4/7/2022 11:24 AM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

One picture is worth a thousand words.

Maybe ... https://imgur.com/PShcDYZ

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On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 11:13:09 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

Just curious - it's puzzling, but I have no need for information.

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them. I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird: >"IC1790" (not 1N....). There is also "IN-COM". They are axial top-hat >package.

The more I looked without finding anything, the more curious that I
became. Any help would be a relief.

Thanks, Bob

I'd probe it at low current for zenering behavior.

Skinny top-hat DO6 (vs DO1, DO2, DO3, DO210AA) axial parts weren't
suitable for HV service.

DO13 lost the top-hat while maintaining hermeticity.

That could also (almost) be a cyrillic marking, given the limited
characters used.

RL

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On 07/04/2022 16:13, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Just curious - it's puzzling, but I have no need for information.

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them.  I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird: "IC1790" (not 1N....).  There is also "IN-COM".  They are axial top-hat package.

At a guess, they sound like a voltage reference part.

--
Adrian C

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On 07/04/2022 17:28, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

On 4/7/2022 12:26 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

On 4/7/2022 11:24 AM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

One picture is worth a thousand words.

Maybe ... https://imgur.com/PShcDYZ

The "brim" is the cathode.

Long shot ...

This is something in a similar type of package https://www.jotrin.com/product/parts/JAN1N6067A

It's called a transient voltage suppressor (TVS) - a kind of Zener.

Does that the diode logo have a straight thin line across it, or is the
line bent with angular tips?

There are also some diode manufacturers that use the diode symbol in
their logo.

A picture of that symbol would be great as well.

--
Adrian C

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On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 11:13:09 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them. I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

The way the supply chain shortages are going, dumpster diving might
soon become a major source for components.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird: >"IC1790" (not 1N....). There is also "IN-COM". They are axial top-hat >package.

That's an old, late 1950's to early 1960's style package. They were
called "top hat" diodes. Something like these: <https://www.google.com/search?q=vintage+top+hat+diodes&tbm=isch>

I didn't have any luck finding who in-co might be. I found this: <https://www.linkedin.com/company/in-co./>
but that's obviously not a diode manufacturer.

Judging by the lead diameter in the photo, methink the IC1790 is some
kind of power diode, zener, or whatever.

Got a curve tracer? I can tell quite a bit about the diode from a
curve tracer display:
<https://www.tek.com/en/blog/i-v-curve-tracer> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=curve+tracer> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=curve+tracer>
or just build your own curve tracer: <https://www.google.com/search?q=build+a+curve+tracer>

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
========================

Just curious - it's puzzling, but I have no need for information.

I found these diodes (new) at the dump & I can't find anything about
them. I've gone so far as to scroll through 100's of Google images.

Anyhow, they're marked with a plain diode symbol, but the ID is weird: "IC1790" (not 1N....). There is also "IN-COM". They are axial top-hat package.

The more I looked without finding anything, the more curious that I
became. Any help would be a relief.

** I guess you have verified it is a Si diode with your DMM?
With bench PSUs it is easy to get other specs.

Maybe connect one across a standard ( not alkaline) AA cell a see what happens.

...... Phil

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bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
========================

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm. The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10
minutes). It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V

** Hmmm....

You have a pretty ordinary 3A Si diode.

The modern 1N5401 has much lower forward voltage drops.


.....Phil

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On 4/7/2022 4:46 PM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Does that the diode logo have a straight thin line across it, or is the
line bent with angular tips?

...

A picture of that symbol would be great as well.

No, the symbol is just plain diode (triangle & strait bar)


On 4/7/2022 4:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

I didn't have any luck finding who in-co might be. I found this:
...

It's actually IN-COM - the "M" wraps around. But IN-COM can't be found
either.

You say it could be late 50's - I think in the 50's there were a lot of transistor start-ups looking to get on the band wagon. If so, IN-COM
could have been one of them that just faded away.

When I found them, there must have been a couple thousand of them. A
wild ass guess would be that a town resident was involved with IN-COM &
took some home. That resident now down-sizing. Or similarly, a
resident involved with a company that used this diode in a product.

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm. The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10
minutes). It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V (peak, 60v RMS
full wave).

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legg wrote:
===========

1N1790 is a 62V 10% 1W zener.

** Looks a hell of a lot like it.
Made by Motorola and IR likely in the 60s or early 70s.


.... Phil

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On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 21:16:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/7/2022 4:46 PM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Does that the diode logo have a straight thin line across it, or is the line bent with angular tips?

...

A picture of that symbol would be great as well.

No, the symbol is just plain diode (triangle & strait bar)

On 4/7/2022 4:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

I didn't have any luck finding who in-co might be. I found this:
...

It's actually IN-COM - the "M" wraps around. But IN-COM can't be found >either.

You say it could be late 50's - I think in the 50's there were a lot of >transistor start-ups looking to get on the band wagon. If so, IN-COM
could have been one of them that just faded away.

When I found them, there must have been a couple thousand of them. A
wild ass guess would be that a town resident was involved with IN-COM &
took some home. That resident now down-sizing. Or similarly, a
resident involved with a company that used this diode in a product.

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm. The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10
minutes). It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V (peak, 60v RMS
full wave).

1N1790 is a 62V 10% 1W zener.

RL

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On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 21:16:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/7/2022 4:46 PM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Does that the diode logo have a straight thin line across it, or is the line bent with angular tips?

...

A picture of that symbol would be great as well.

No, the symbol is just plain diode (triangle & strait bar)

On 4/7/2022 4:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

I didn't have any luck finding who in-co might be. I found this:
...

It's actually IN-COM - the "M" wraps around. But IN-COM can't be found >either.

You say it could be late 50's - I think in the 50's there were a lot of >transistor start-ups looking to get on the band wagon. If so, IN-COM
could have been one of them that just faded away.

When I found them, there must have been a couple thousand of them. A
wild ass guess would be that a town resident was involved with IN-COM &
took some home. That resident now down-sizing. Or similarly, a
resident involved with a company that used this diode in a product.

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm. The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10
minutes). It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V (peak, 60v RMS
full wave).

1S1790 is a 150V zener in that case size.

S is C in cyrillic.

RL

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On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 23:50:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 21:16:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

No, the symbol is just plain diode (triangle & strait bar)

Perhaps an abbreviated International Rectifier logo? ><https://www.google.com/search?q=international+rectifier+logos&tbm=isch>

Here's another possible diode logo:
<https://www.rectron.com>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 21:16:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/7/2022 4:46 PM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Does that the diode logo have a straight thin line across it, or is the line bent with angular tips?

...

A picture of that symbol would be great as well.

No, the symbol is just plain diode (triangle & strait bar)

Perhaps an abbreviated International Rectifier logo? <https://www.google.com/search?q=international+rectifier+logos&tbm=isch>

On 4/7/2022 4:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

I didn't have any luck finding who in-co might be. I found this:
...

It's actually IN-COM - the "M" wraps around. But IN-COM can't be found >either.

Oops. I took the name from your photo.

You say it could be late 50's - I think in the 50's there were a lot of >transistor start-ups looking to get on the band wagon. If so, IN-COM
could have been one of them that just faded away.

That's possible. However, the late 1950's guess is based on the
prevalence of similar looking "top hat" packages. I vaguely recall
that this package slowly disappeared in the mid 1960's.

When I found them, there must have been a couple thousand of them. A
wild ass guess would be that a town resident was involved with IN-COM &
took some home. That resident now down-sizing. Or similarly, a
resident involved with a company that used this diode in a product.

That's exactly what happened to me when I was a senior in high school
in 1965. I got a tour of PSI (Pacific Semiconductors). They were in
the process of being acquired by TRW: <https://www.chipsetc.com/psi-pacific-semiconductors.html>
and were disposing of most everything with PSI printed on it. I went
home with a large cardboard box full of floor sweepings. I probably
could have gotten more if I transportation. Most ended up being
redistributed to the schools electronics students. I went home with
two shoe boxes stuffed with mostly diodes, some of which I still have
today.

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm. The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10
minutes). It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V (peak, 60v RMS
full wave).

If the reverse breakdown voltage happens abruptly, that's zener
action. 79V zener perhaps? However, if the reverse breakdown corner
is gradual and rounded, it's an ordinary power diode. Throw together
an I-V curve tracer and see what it looks like on an oscilloscope: <https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/articles-iv2.gif>
<https://circuitcellar.com/research-design-hub/create-your-own-i-v-curve-tracer/>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On 4/7/2022 9:16 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...

Some crude bench supply tests: handles 3A forward (1V drop), getting
warm.  The heat from 5A (8W) discolors it, but it doesn't open (10 minutes).  It breaks down with reverse voltage of 80V (peak, 60v RMS
full wave).

I was thinking these were plain diodes, since that is the symbol on
them, so my test did not control the reverse current and let it vaporize.

I did another, with "pure" DC (instead of full wave) & limited the
current. Also measured the current as it approached breakdown. It
started at 46V (1ma), growing to 100ma at 62v, just before it broke down
at 64v.

Then it went crazy: the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at
800ma. Is that the way a plain diode breaks down?

Since I limited the current, it did not vaporize and the test could be repeated.

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On 4/8/2022 2:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

Throw together

an I-V curve tracer and see what it looks like on an oscilloscope: <https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/articles-iv2.gif>
<https://circuitcellar.com/research-design-hub/create-your-own-i-v-curve-tracer/>

I had Googled DIY curve tracer & got really elaborate circuits, so I
didn't pursue it. Is the one you linked to really all you need? (AC & 2 resistors)?

Doesn't that have the same problem that I had: once the diode breaks
down & conducts, voltage is dropped across the resistors and the voltage
across the diode drops, a lot?

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On 4/8/2022 5:11 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...

Then it went crazy:  the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at 800ma.
...

Oh, wait ... once it broke down, the current through the limiting
resistor (100R) dropped most of the voltage there.

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bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:

==========================

I did another, with "pure" DC (instead of full wave) & limited the
current. Also measured the current as it approached breakdown. It
started at 46V (1ma), growing to 100ma at 62v, just before it broke down
at 64v.

** A 1W zener will not like 6.4 watts.

Then it went crazy: the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at 800ma. Is that the way a plain diode breaks down?

** That is failure, not breakdown.
The Si chip has melted.


...... Phil

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On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:38:46 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/8/2022 2:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...

Throw together

an I-V curve tracer and see what it looks like on an oscilloscope:
<https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/articles-iv2.gif>
<https://circuitcellar.com/research-design-hub/create-your-own-i-v-curve-tracer/>

I had Googled DIY curve tracer & got really elaborate circuits, so I
didn't pursue it.

The fancy I-V curve tracers will produce a family of curves that are
necessary to display transistor gain characteristics. You don't need
that for a simple diode.

Is the one you linked to really all you need? (AC & 2
resistors)?

It's the one I recommended, but please don't assume I like it.
It won't work for your diode anyway. The peak voltage from a 12VAC
xformer is about 17V peak. With that low an output voltage, you'll
never see the knee of the zener curve for a 79(?) volt zener. The
transformer needs a higher voltage. Above about 48VDC, things become
a bit dangerous. Remember, you have but one life to give for your
hobby (or profession).

You don't really need to run it on AC. All AC gives you is the
ability to see what's happening with both the forward and reverse
conduction curves in the same plot on the oscilloscope screen. If you
use a variable voltage DC power supply to "draw" the forward and
reverse curves independently, you get the same result. The circuit is
really simple. The diode is in series with a resistor to limit
forward current. X-axis (voltage) goes across the diode. Y-Axis
(current) goes across the series resistor. If your power supply has a
grounded negative lead, use a 4 trace scope and differential inputs to
keep the scope ground isolated.

Another way to do this is to use the sine wave output of an audio
generator. Connect a step up transformer to the audio output to get
up to maybe 90 volts peak. Keep the series current low (both forward
and reverse) because the transformer can't handle much DC current. You
should get a usable trace on the scope across the diode.

Doesn't that have the same problem that I had: once the diode breaks
down & conducts, voltage is dropped across the resistors and the voltage >across the diode drops, a lot?

Yep. That's the way a zener works. Just make sure that when the
zener conducts, the current through the zener is low enough to not
blow up the zener when it conducts. Mostly, that means use a large
value series resistor.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On 4/8/2022 8:34 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:

==========================

I did another, with "pure" DC (instead of full wave) & limited the
current. Also measured the current as it approached breakdown. It
started at 46V (1ma), growing to 100ma at 62v, just before it broke down
at 64v.

** A 1W zener will not like 6.4 watts.

Then it went crazy: the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at
800ma. Is that the way a plain diode breaks down?

** That is failure, not breakdown.
The Si chip has melted.

...... Phil

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking
down" at 64v. Repeatedly. It wouldn't do that if it was melted, would it?

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Did you tell us the voltage drop versus a range of forward currents? Since this is for educational purposes, I would open one to see how it is constructed. I am guessing that there was no Si to melt, and it might have been made of Ge, especially if it
has a point contact, or if it is a pellet with a spring-loaded contact, or if looks like one contact is "soldered" on (alloy junction made with indium).

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jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
====================

Did you tell us the voltage drop versus a range of forward currents?

** The OP claimed 1V at 3 amps and "getting warm".
Which is clearly bullshit.

3W dissipation in a small pack means it would be damn hot.


..... Phil

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bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
==========================

I did another, with "pure" DC (instead of full wave) & limited the
current. Also measured the current as it approached breakdown. It
started at 46V (1ma), growing to 100ma at 62v, just before it broke down >> at 64v.

** A 1W zener will not like 6.4 watts.

Then it went crazy: the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at
800ma. Is that the way a plain diode breaks down?

** That is failure, not breakdown.
The Si chip has melted.

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking
down" at 64v.

*** FSS finish your sentence.
Broke down to what ? 6V ?
That is what you posted earlier.

Zeners do not have 2 voltages.

FYI Reverse breakdown a regular diode is usually fatal.


..... Phil

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On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 09:04:54 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/8/2022 8:34 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:

==========================

I did another, with "pure" DC (instead of full wave) & limited the
current. Also measured the current as it approached breakdown. It
started at 46V (1ma), growing to 100ma at 62v, just before it broke down >>> at 64v.

** A 1W zener will not like 6.4 watts.

Then it went crazy: the voltage across it dropped to 7V (650ma) & 6V at
800ma. Is that the way a plain diode breaks down?

** That is failure, not breakdown.
The Si chip has melted.


...... Phil

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking >down" at 64v. Repeatedly. It wouldn't do that if it was melted, would it?

If you're judging the breakdown voltage by the temperature of
the zener, you are unlikely to get an accurate. measurement.

If you have meter and can turn your AC test signal into DC,
with a diode and capacitor, you'll get a better idea.

The aim in nondestructive testing is to burn up the series
current limiter first, because it's cheaper and there are
probably more of them, lying around.

V^2 / R .

RL

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On 4/9/2022 8:51 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
==========================

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking
down" at 64v.

*** FSS finish your sentence.
Broke down to what ? 6V ?
That is what you posted earlier.

It looks like something was lost along the way and you didn't get the
last part of my sentence that read "...'breaking down' at 64v." See above.

Zeners do not have 2 voltages. >
FYI Reverse breakdown a regular diode is usually fatal.

This isn't marked as a zener & at breakdown: the voltage isn't fixed. I
don't think it is a zener. Nor does it seem like a plain diode from its
crazy behavior at breakdown. I.e., the breakdown not being fatal.

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On 4/9/2022 8:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
====================

Did you tell us the voltage drop versus a range of forward currents?

** The OP claimed 1V at 3 amps and "getting warm".
Which is clearly bullshit.

3W dissipation in a small pack means it would be damn hot.

OK, it was too hot to touch. What I was trying to say was that it
wasn't so hot as to be destroyed. It seemed like it could run "forever"
at that current.

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On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 10:50:25 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 4/9/2022 8:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
====================

Did you tell us the voltage drop versus a range of forward currents?

** The OP claimed 1V at 3 amps and "getting warm".
Which is clearly bullshit.

3W dissipation in a small pack means it would be damn hot.

OK, it was too hot to touch. What I was trying to say was that it
wasn't so hot as to be destroyed. It seemed like it could run "forever"
at that current.

Zener tolerance test current levels, above 48V are usually less
than 10mA.

RL

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
==========================

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking
down" at 64v.

*** FSS finish your sentence.
Broke down to what ? 6V ?
That is what you posted earlier.

It looks like something was lost along the way and you didn't get the
last part of my sentence that read "...'breaking down' at 64v." See above.

** So your "breakdown" = start conducting current ?

Zeners do not have 2 voltages.
FYI Reverse breakdown a regular diode is usually fatal.

This isn't marked as a zener & at breakdown: the voltage isn't fixed.

** WTF are you on about?

Zeners do not drop suddenly in voltage when conducting.

Nor does it seem like a plain diode from its
crazy behavior at breakdown. I.e., the breakdown not being fatal.

** So you say.


..... Phil

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On 4/10/2022 5:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bobenge...@gmail.com wrote:
==========================

But the thing is when I lowered the voltage below 40v, it blocked
current until the voltage was raised again. Starting at 46v & "breaking >>>> down" at 64v.

*** FSS finish your sentence.
Broke down to what ? 6V ?
That is what you posted earlier.

It looks like something was lost along the way and you didn't get the
last part of my sentence that read "...'breaking down' at 64v." See above.

** So your "breakdown" = start conducting current ?

Zeners do not have 2 voltages.
FYI Reverse breakdown a regular diode is usually fatal.

This isn't marked as a zener & at breakdown: the voltage isn't fixed.

** WTF are you on about?

Zeners do not drop suddenly in voltage when conducting.

Nor does it seem like a plain diode from its
crazy behavior at breakdown. I.e., the breakdown not being fatal.

** So you say.

..... Phil

Never mind.

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