• Disassociation of Water Molecules in an Electric Field

    From KAM1@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 19 08:54:51 2022
    Question for chemistry experts out there:

    Say you have two electrically charged plates, covered by an insulating material, and separated by a narrow gap occupied only by relatively sparse water molecules, i.e. water vapor. Now say you apply a relatively high voltage to those plates, something
    on the order of thousands of volts or more, creating a very strong electric field between the insulated plates, across the area containing the water vapor.

    1. What will happen to the water molecules between the plates? Will the molecules disassociate into hydrogen and oxygen ions?

    2. If the molecules disassociate into ions, how is energy conserved in this scenario, since no electrical current would actually flow between the plates, yet work has been done on the molecules?

    3. If the molecules do not disassociate into ions, what prevents the disassociation from occurring?

    The same questions could be asked of hydrogen gas molecules, which are known to ionize under high voltage electrical fields.

    Thanks,
    KM

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 20 10:06:38 2022
    On 19/10/2022 16:54, KAM1 wrote:
    Question for chemistry experts out there:

    Say you have two electrically charged plates, covered by an
    insulating material, and separated by a narrow gap occupied only by relatively sparse water molecules, i.e. water vapor. Now say you
    apply a relatively high voltage to those plates, something on the
    order of thousands of volts or more, creating a very strong electric
    field between the insulated plates, across the area containing the
    water vapor.

    It is actually a physics question about electrical permittivity and
    dielectric strength. See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

    If the insulators were perfect then the field gradient across them would
    be huge and the electric field across the free space tiny.

    1. What will happen to the water molecules between the plates? Will
    the molecules disassociate into hydrogen and oxygen ions?

    The best you might hope for is that they turn around so that the free
    electron pairs face the positive plate. See fig 1 here:

    https://cds.cern.ch/record/1342701/files/335.pdf

    2. If the molecules disassociate into ions, how is energy conserved
    in this scenario, since no electrical current would actually flow
    between the plates, yet work has been done on the molecules?

    To make them ionise you need the plates uninsulated and the gas pressure
    low enough that particle mean free path is comparable with the
    dimensions of the gap (or voltage above the breakdown for an arc).

    3. If the molecules do not disassociate into ions, what prevents the disassociation from occurring?

    No current is flowing.
    Unless you push the voltage so high that your insulator fails.

    The same questions could be asked of hydrogen gas molecules, which
    are known to ionize under high voltage electrical fields.



    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

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