Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites in the
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguinsThis has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess. >>
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New Zealand
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguinsThis has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the >>> framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic >>> signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might >>> have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in >>> birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how >>> penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role. >> Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a lumper.
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguinsThis has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the >>>>> framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify >>>>> key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic >>>>> signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might >>>>> have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic >>>>> ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in >>>>> birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how >>>>> penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess. >>>>
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role. >>>> Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the >>>>> framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify >>>>> key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic >>>>> signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during >>>>> major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might >>>>> have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic >>>>> ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group >>>>> (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in >>>>> birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how >>>>> penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a >> lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?They were not. Word up?
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, >>>>>>> subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the >>>>>>> framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify >>>>>>> key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic >>>>>>> signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during >>>>>>> major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes >>>>>>> potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might >>>>>>> have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic >>>>>>> ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group >>>>>>> (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in >>>>>>> birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how >>>>>>> penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role. >>>>>> Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
They were not. Word up?Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a >>>> lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu mediculus)."
On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, >>>>>>> subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify >>>>>>> key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during >>>>>>> major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes >>>>>>> potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic >>>>>>> ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group >>>>>>> (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern >>>>>> hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
They were not. Word up?Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a >>>> lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight supposed
to be about?
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>>>>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, >>>>>>>>> subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify >>>>>>>>> key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic >>>>>>>>> signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during >>>>>>>>> major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes >>>>>>>>> potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>>>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic >>>>>>>>> ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group >>>>>>>>> (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how >>>>>>>>> penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>>>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern >>>>>>>> hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
They were not. Word up?Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a >>>>>> lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>>>>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, >>>>>>>>> subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes >>>>>>>>> potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>>>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>>>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern >>>>>>>> hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
They were not. Word up?Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight supposed >> to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what is actually said, like what or who is "they"?I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few
miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in
the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all: Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is supposed to
be about?
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds found at numerous sites
On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of penguins >>>>>>>>>>>This has implications for the age of the crown group Neornithes (or >>>>>>>>>> Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years ago, >>>>>>>>>>> subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization during >>>>>>>>>>> major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of genes >>>>>>>>>>> potentially underpinning adaptations related to thermoregulation, >>>>>>>>>>> oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their sister group >>>>>>>>>>> (Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, successfully >>>>>>>>>>> colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the northern >>>>>>>>>> hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of New
I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the GalapagosThey were not. Word up?Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if you're a
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight supposed >>>> to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few
miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in
the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all:
Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one: "The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos
On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:They were not. Word up?
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>> you're a
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsThis has implications for the age of the crown group
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread refugia/recolonization >>>>>>>>>>>> during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to
thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to an >>>>>>>>>>>> aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our
understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment,
successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Neornithes (or
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at a >>>>>>>>>>> rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study published >>>>>>>>>> in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary
Research has determined that the renowned giant penguins of >>>>>>>>>> New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, the United >>>>>>>>>> States and Canada. The researchers identified shocking
similarities between the fossilized bones of the giant New >>>>>>>>>> Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group of birds >>>>>>>>>> found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, named
plotopterids."
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally
found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu
mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight
supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what is
actually said, like what or who is "they"?
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few
miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in
the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all:
Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is supposed to >>> be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one:
"The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless alcid, now
extinct. Not clear?
On 7/21/22 6:27 AM, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>> wrote:They were not. Word up?
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>>> you're a
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsThis has implications for the age of the crown group
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread
refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to
thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to >>>>>>>>>>>>> an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our
understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, >>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9
Neornithes (or
Aves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at >>>>>>>>>>>> a rough guess.
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study
published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and
Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant >>>>>>>>>>> penguins of New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, >>>>>>>>>>> the United States and Canada. The researchers identified >>>>>>>>>>> shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the >>>>>>>>>>> giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group >>>>>>>>>>> of birds found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, >>>>>>>>>>> named plotopterids."
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally
found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu
mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight
supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what
is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few
miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in >>>> the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all:
Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is
supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one:
"The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call
penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless
alcid, now extinct. Not clear?
So basic question.
Do penguins actually fly or not.
The abstract of the article seems to imply that penguins do not fly,
and their flippers seem to be more adapted to propelling penguins
through water.
Nonetheless I think of the flying fish and the fact that they
propel themselves above water in order to increase their speed
when trying to escape predators since there is less drag in
air than in water.
In terms of weight, even the heaviest penguins are much lighter
than larger sharks, cetaceans, and many bony fish, and since
the ocean is generally a food chain with microscopic phytoplankton
on the bottom, the ability to flee predators in the open ocean
would seem to me to be a critical factor concerning the viability
for penguin survival if long distance flight is lost.
So include propelling above water to increase speed as 'flying'.
Can penguins do that?
How do penguins flee predators in the open ocean?
This is inspired by me surfing through Wikipedia and noticing
that it has a chart that says that the heaviest bird that has
flight is the turkey.
Can either wild turkeys or domestic turkeys fly?
Wikipedia
seems to give the idea that turkeys can, and they weigh only
slightly less than the emperor penguin as adults. The smallest
cetaceans as adults might weigh only slightly less than the
emperor penguin, but there are also smaller and less heavy
penguins.
Can the eyes of penguins focus well in air, water, or both?
On 7/21/22 1:08 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/21/22 6:27 AM, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>> On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>> wrote:They were not. Word up?
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>>> you're a
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsAves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at >>>>>>>>>>>> a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread
refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to
thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to >>>>>>>>>>>>> an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our
understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, >>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9 >>>>>>>>>>>> This has implications for the age of the crown group >>>>>>>>>>>> Neornithes (or
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study
published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and >>>>>>>>>>> Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant >>>>>>>>>>> penguins of New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, >>>>>>>>>>> the United States and Canada. The researchers identified >>>>>>>>>>> shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the >>>>>>>>>>> giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group >>>>>>>>>>> of birds found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, >>>>>>>>>>> named plotopterids."
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally >>>>>>> found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu >>>>>>> mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight
supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what >>>>> is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few >>>> miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in >>>> the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all: >>>> Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is
supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one:
"The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call
penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless
alcid, now extinct. Not clear?
So basic question.
Do penguins actually fly or not.Depends on what you mean by "fly". Sometimes it's said that they fly
through the water. Flippers are wings, after all. But no, they can't fly
in the air.
The abstract of the article seems to imply that penguins do not fly,
and their flippers seem to be more adapted to propelling penguins
through water.
Nonetheless I think of the flying fish and the fact that theyPenguins do this only to the degree that dolphins do. That is, they "porpoise". I don't think it increases speed, but it may reduce the
propel themselves above water in order to increase their speed
when trying to escape predators since there is less drag in
air than in water.
energy needed to maintain a particular speed.
In terms of weight, even the heaviest penguins are much lighter
than larger sharks, cetaceans, and many bony fish, and since
the ocean is generally a food chain with microscopic phytoplankton
on the bottom, the ability to flee predators in the open ocean
would seem to me to be a critical factor concerning the viability
for penguin survival if long distance flight is lost.
So include propelling above water to increase speed as 'flying'.No. Flying fish don't do it either. Their propulsion in the air comes
Can penguins do that?
from swishing their tails in the water just before they fully take off.
How do penguins flee predators in the open ocean?By swimming fast and being highly maneuverable in the water.
This is inspired by me surfing through Wikipedia and noticing
that it has a chart that says that the heaviest bird that has
flight is the turkey.
Can either wild turkeys or domestic turkeys fly?Wild turkeys can. I'll bet that a lot of domestic turkeys can't.
Wikipedia
seems to give the idea that turkeys can, and they weigh only
slightly less than the emperor penguin as adults. The smallest
cetaceans as adults might weigh only slightly less than the
emperor penguin, but there are also smaller and less heavy
penguins.
Can the eyes of penguins focus well in air, water, or both?I have no direct knowledge of that, but they would have to, since it's
their primary sense in both environments.
On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:19:45 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/21/22 1:08 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/21/22 6:27 AM, John Harshman wrote:Depends on what you mean by "fly". Sometimes it's said that they fly
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They were not. Word up?
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I >>>>>>>>>>>> remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>>>>> you're a
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsAves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread
refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to
thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has implications for the age of the crown group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neornithes (or
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up?
"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study >>>>>>>>>>>>> published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and >>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant >>>>>>>>>>>>> penguins of New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the United States and Canada. The researchers identified >>>>>>>>>>>>> shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group >>>>>>>>>>>>> of birds found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, >>>>>>>>>>>>> named plotopterids."
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally >>>>>>>>> found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu >>>>>>>>> mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight >>>>>>>> supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what >>>>>>> is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few >>>>>> miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in >>>>>> the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all: >>>>>> Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is
supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one:
"The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call
penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless
alcid, now extinct. Not clear?
So basic question.
Do penguins actually fly or not.
through the water. Flippers are wings, after all. But no, they can't fly
in the air.
The abstract of the article seems to imply that penguins do not fly,Penguins do this only to the degree that dolphins do. That is, they
and their flippers seem to be more adapted to propelling penguins
through water.
Nonetheless I think of the flying fish and the fact that they
propel themselves above water in order to increase their speed
when trying to escape predators since there is less drag in
air than in water.
"porpoise". I don't think it increases speed, but it may reduce the
energy needed to maintain a particular speed.
In terms of weight, even the heaviest penguins are much lighterNo. Flying fish don't do it either. Their propulsion in the air comes
than larger sharks, cetaceans, and many bony fish, and since
the ocean is generally a food chain with microscopic phytoplankton
on the bottom, the ability to flee predators in the open ocean
would seem to me to be a critical factor concerning the viability
for penguin survival if long distance flight is lost.
So include propelling above water to increase speed as 'flying'.
Can penguins do that?
from swishing their tails in the water just before they fully take off.
How do penguins flee predators in the open ocean?By swimming fast and being highly maneuverable in the water.
This is inspired by me surfing through Wikipedia and noticingWild turkeys can. I'll bet that a lot of domestic turkeys can't.
that it has a chart that says that the heaviest bird that has
flight is the turkey.
Can either wild turkeys or domestic turkeys fly?
WikipediaI have no direct knowledge of that, but they would have to, since it's
seems to give the idea that turkeys can, and they weigh only
slightly less than the emperor penguin as adults. The smallest
cetaceans as adults might weigh only slightly less than the
emperor penguin, but there are also smaller and less heavy
penguins.
Can the eyes of penguins focus well in air, water, or both?
their primary sense in both environments.
They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up onto
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
On 7/21/22 3:04 PM, erik simpson wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:19:45 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/21/22 1:08 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/21/22 6:27 AM, John Harshman wrote:Depends on what you mean by "fly". Sometimes it's said that they fly
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos >>>>>> penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few >>>>>> miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They were not. Word up?
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study >>>>>>>>>>>>> published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and >>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant >>>>>>>>>>>>> penguins of New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the United States and Canada. The researchers identified >>>>>>>>>>>>> shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group >>>>>>>>>>>>> of birds found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, >>>>>>>>>>>>> named plotopterids."
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsAves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread
refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has implications for the age of the crown group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neornithes (or
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up? >>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>>>>> you're a
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep?
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally >>>>>>>>> found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu >>>>>>>>> mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight >>>>>>>> supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what >>>>>>> is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all: >>>>>> Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is
supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one: >>>>> "The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call
penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless
alcid, now extinct. Not clear?
So basic question.
Do penguins actually fly or not.
through the water. Flippers are wings, after all. But no, they can't fly >> in the air.
The abstract of the article seems to imply that penguins do not fly,Penguins do this only to the degree that dolphins do. That is, they
and their flippers seem to be more adapted to propelling penguins
through water.
Nonetheless I think of the flying fish and the fact that they
propel themselves above water in order to increase their speed
when trying to escape predators since there is less drag in
air than in water.
"porpoise". I don't think it increases speed, but it may reduce the
energy needed to maintain a particular speed.
In terms of weight, even the heaviest penguins are much lighterNo. Flying fish don't do it either. Their propulsion in the air comes
than larger sharks, cetaceans, and many bony fish, and since
the ocean is generally a food chain with microscopic phytoplankton
on the bottom, the ability to flee predators in the open ocean
would seem to me to be a critical factor concerning the viability
for penguin survival if long distance flight is lost.
So include propelling above water to increase speed as 'flying'.
Can penguins do that?
from swishing their tails in the water just before they fully take off. >>> How do penguins flee predators in the open ocean?
By swimming fast and being highly maneuverable in the water.
This is inspired by me surfing through Wikipedia and noticingWild turkeys can. I'll bet that a lot of domestic turkeys can't.
that it has a chart that says that the heaviest bird that has
flight is the turkey.
Can either wild turkeys or domestic turkeys fly?
WikipediaI have no direct knowledge of that, but they would have to, since it's
seems to give the idea that turkeys can, and they weigh only
slightly less than the emperor penguin as adults. The smallest
cetaceans as adults might weigh only slightly less than the
emperor penguin, but there are also smaller and less heavy
penguins.
Can the eyes of penguins focus well in air, water, or both?
their primary sense in both environments.
They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers.
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 4:50:57 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
On 7/21/22 3:04 PM, erik simpson wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:19:45 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:Not jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers.
On 7/21/22 1:08 PM, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/21/22 6:27 AM, John Harshman wrote:Depends on what you mean by "fly". Sometimes it's said that they fly
On 7/21/22 12:51 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/20/22 11:05 AM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 7:25 PM, Glenn wrote:I was of course referring to penguins. Technically, the Galapagos >>>>>>>> penguin did make it into the norther hemisphere, though only by a few >>>>>>>> miles. The point is that they never got to the fine penguin habitat in >>>>>>>> the arctic. Then again, the original penguin isn't a penguin at all: >>>>>>>> Pinguinus impennis, the great auk. Is that what the fight is
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/22 6:20 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:They were not. Word up?
On 7/19/22 1:29 PM, Glenn wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7, John Harshman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Yep. Plotopterids are neither penguins nor procellariiforms. If I
On 7/19/22 9:49 AM, Pandora wrote:"New research has revealed that it was not just New Zealand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that provided a home for giant marine birds. A study >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> published in the Journal of Zoological Systematics and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolutionary Research has determined that the renowned giant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penguins of New Zealand had northern doppelgängers in Japan, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the United States and Canada. The researchers identified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocking similarities between the fossilized bones of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giant New Zealand penguins and those of a much younger group >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of birds found at numerous sites in the Northern Hemisphere, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> named plotopterids."
Genomic insights into the secondary aquatic transition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> penguinsAves, as I prefer), suggesting something far back in the Late >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cretaceous. Not sure exactly, but it should exceed 120ma at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rough guess.
Abstract
Penguins lost the ability to fly more than 60 million years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago,
subsequently evolving a hyper-specialized marine body plan. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the
framework of a genome-scale, fossil-inclusive phylogeny, we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
key geological events that shaped penguin diversification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and genomic
signatures consistent with widespread
refugia/recolonization during
major climate oscillations. We further identify a suite of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genes
potentially underpinning adaptations related to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermoregulation,
oxygenation, diving, vision, diet, immunity and body size, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might
have facilitated their remarkable secondary transition to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an aquatic
ecology. Our analyses indicate that penguins and their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sister group
(Procellariiformes) have the lowest evolutionary rates yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detected in
birds. Together, these findings help improve our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of how
penguins have transitioned to the marine environment, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
colonizing some of the most extreme environments on Earth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31508-9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has implications for the age of the crown group >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neornithes (or
Interesting to speculate why they never made it into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> northern
hemisphere, where first plotopterids and then alcids assumed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their role.
Why didn't any procellariiforms ever take it up? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://conservation.reefcause.com/giant-penguin-like-seabirds-fossils-discovered-in-northern-hemisphere/
remember they're supposed to be suliforms, or pelecaniforms if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're a
lumper.
Were they brudder to da Hoatzin?
So "they" never made it to the Northern Hemisphere, yep? >>>>>>>>>>>
"Of the 18 penguin species on earth, only one is occasionally >>>>>>>>>>> found north of the equator – the Galapagos Penguin (Spheniscu >>>>>>>>>>> mediculus)."
If you're trying to start some kind of fight, what's the fight >>>>>>>>>> supposed
to be about?
So it is alright that you don't answer questions and address what >>>>>>>>> is actually said, like what or who is "they"?
supposed to
be about?
What fight is that? I think you've outdone yourself with that one: >>>>>>> "The original penguin isn't a penguin at all".
The point is that before Europeans knew about the birds we call
penguins today, the name was originally attached to a flightless
alcid, now extinct. Not clear?
So basic question.
Do penguins actually fly or not.
through the water. Flippers are wings, after all. But no, they can't fly >>>> in the air.
The abstract of the article seems to imply that penguins do not fly, >>>>> and their flippers seem to be more adapted to propelling penguinsPenguins do this only to the degree that dolphins do. That is, they
through water.
Nonetheless I think of the flying fish and the fact that they
propel themselves above water in order to increase their speed
when trying to escape predators since there is less drag in
air than in water.
"porpoise". I don't think it increases speed, but it may reduce the
energy needed to maintain a particular speed.
In terms of weight, even the heaviest penguins are much lighterNo. Flying fish don't do it either. Their propulsion in the air comes
than larger sharks, cetaceans, and many bony fish, and since
the ocean is generally a food chain with microscopic phytoplankton
on the bottom, the ability to flee predators in the open ocean
would seem to me to be a critical factor concerning the viability
for penguin survival if long distance flight is lost.
So include propelling above water to increase speed as 'flying'.
Can penguins do that?
from swishing their tails in the water just before they fully take off. >>>>> How do penguins flee predators in the open ocean?
By swimming fast and being highly maneuverable in the water.
This is inspired by me surfing through Wikipedia and noticingWild turkeys can. I'll bet that a lot of domestic turkeys can't.
that it has a chart that says that the heaviest bird that has
flight is the turkey.
Can either wild turkeys or domestic turkeys fly?
WikipediaI have no direct knowledge of that, but they would have to, since it's >>>> their primary sense in both environments.
seems to give the idea that turkeys can, and they weigh only
slightly less than the emperor penguin as adults. The smallest
cetaceans as adults might weigh only slightly less than the
emperor penguin, but there are also smaller and less heavy
penguins.
Can the eyes of penguins focus well in air, water, or both?
They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up onto
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
That has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.
They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers.
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
That has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers.
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
That has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopard
seal.
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7, 69jp...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopardThey can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers.
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
That has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.
seal.
Even I would try to get out of the water fast if I thought something like a leopard seal were around.
On 7/25/22 8:49 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7, 69jp...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopardThat has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers. >>>
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
seal.
Even I would try to get out of the water fast if I thought something like a leopard seal were around.You know looking up the article on the leopard seal it gave the
idea that the seals do vocalization under water.
The middle ear of mammals generally exists to amplify sound in
air, but I get the idea that in mammals most underwater sound is
picked up from the jaw and skull for most land mammals.
A while ago I wondered about the possibility of computer interfaces
to transmit and collect and interpret sounds from cetaceans.
I also wondered about what cetacean would be most ideal to send into
space.
At that point I noticed that the bottlenose dolphin was different
from the common dolphin, and there are smaller dolphins than the
common dolphin. In the last surf I noticed that there were river
dolphins in Asia as well as South America. It does not seem obvious
to me what the smallest cetacean species is. There are several small
ones that weigh as adults about 2/3rds the mass of an average adult
human. I am thinking from some surfs that the smaller dolphins have
an average brain mass of about 3/4ths that of an average adult human
but humans vary in their brain volume from about 800cc to over 2500cc.
To the best of my understanding, I am thinking their temporal lobes
are relatively more developed since the temporal lobe is generally
involved with the processing of sound.
I do not know if dolphins or whales or seals have a middle ear, or
what the capabilities of their vision is. Maybe all mammals do
have a middle ear or only some do. Probably most textbooks would
say that they do for the purpose of simplification.
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 3:32:50 PM UTC-7, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/25/22 8:49 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7, 69jp...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpsonYou know looking up the article on the leopard seal it gave the
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopardThat has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers. >>>>>
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
seal.
Even I would try to get out of the water fast if I thought something like a leopard seal were around.
idea that the seals do vocalization under water.
The middle ear of mammals generally exists to amplify sound in
air, but I get the idea that in mammals most underwater sound is
picked up from the jaw and skull for most land mammals.
A while ago I wondered about the possibility of computer interfaces
to transmit and collect and interpret sounds from cetaceans.
I also wondered about what cetacean would be most ideal to send into
space.
At that point I noticed that the bottlenose dolphin was different
from the common dolphin, and there are smaller dolphins than the
common dolphin. In the last surf I noticed that there were river
dolphins in Asia as well as South America. It does not seem obvious
to me what the smallest cetacean species is. There are several small
ones that weigh as adults about 2/3rds the mass of an average adult
human. I am thinking from some surfs that the smaller dolphins have
an average brain mass of about 3/4ths that of an average adult human
but humans vary in their brain volume from about 800cc to over 2500cc.
To the best of my understanding, I am thinking their temporal lobes
are relatively more developed since the temporal lobe is generally
involved with the processing of sound.
I do not know if dolphins or whales or seals have a middle ear, or
what the capabilities of their vision is. Maybe all mammals do
have a middle ear or only some do. Probably most textbooks would
say that they do for the purpose of simplification.
Cetaceans in space? Douglas Adams had one (came to a bad end). Whatever for?
On 7/25/22 4:17 PM, erik simpson wrote:
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 3:32:50 PM UTC-7, Trolidan7 wrote:
On 7/25/22 8:49 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7, 69jp...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpsonYou know looking up the article on the leopard seal it gave the
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopardThat has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers. >>>>>
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
seal.
Even I would try to get out of the water fast if I thought something like a leopard seal were around.
idea that the seals do vocalization under water.
The middle ear of mammals generally exists to amplify sound in
air, but I get the idea that in mammals most underwater sound is
picked up from the jaw and skull for most land mammals.
A while ago I wondered about the possibility of computer interfaces
to transmit and collect and interpret sounds from cetaceans.
I also wondered about what cetacean would be most ideal to send into
space.
At that point I noticed that the bottlenose dolphin was different
from the common dolphin, and there are smaller dolphins than the
common dolphin. In the last surf I noticed that there were river
dolphins in Asia as well as South America. It does not seem obvious
to me what the smallest cetacean species is. There are several small
ones that weigh as adults about 2/3rds the mass of an average adult
human. I am thinking from some surfs that the smaller dolphins have
an average brain mass of about 3/4ths that of an average adult human
but humans vary in their brain volume from about 800cc to over 2500cc.
To the best of my understanding, I am thinking their temporal lobes
are relatively more developed since the temporal lobe is generally
involved with the processing of sound.
I do not know if dolphins or whales or seals have a middle ear, or
what the capabilities of their vision is. Maybe all mammals do
have a middle ear or only some do. Probably most textbooks would
say that they do for the purpose of simplification.
Cetaceans in space? Douglas Adams had one (came to a bad end). Whatever for?Maybe that would depend somewhat on what a cetacean communicating
with a computer and robot could do.
Water still boils in a vacuum and the dolphins breathe air but it is not obvious whether a water matrix and pressure differences during diving
in many ocean environments would make dolphins any more or less
resistant than humans to emergency situations in space.
The lighter cetaceans would not weigh any more than a human astronaut,
but water tanks and apparatus dealing with water leaks could be an
extra weight factor.
Who knows. I could not find much however on attempts to get computers
to do something like sound recognition and send info back with speakers
in water or computer screens in water (in a pool on Earth) anyway.
On 7/25/22 8:49 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7, 69jp...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amazing are the feats inspired by being chased by a hungry leopardThat has to be right, but it's spectacular. They pop out of the water at speed.They can come quite a ways out of the water, jumping at least a couple meters up ontoNot jumping, exactly, since the propulsion comes from wings/flippers. >>>>
an ice shelf. They don't flap as they do so,and they can land on their feet, waddling.
seal.
Even I would try to get out of the water fast if I thought something like a leopard seal were around.
You know looking up the article on the leopard seal it gave the
idea that the seals do vocalization under water.
The middle ear of mammals generally exists to amplify sound in
air, but I get the idea that in mammals most underwater sound is
picked up from the jaw and skull for most land mammals.
A while ago I wondered about the possibility of computer interfaces
to transmit and collect and interpret sounds from cetaceans.
I also wondered about what cetacean would be most ideal to send into
space.
At that point I noticed that the bottlenose dolphin was different
from the common dolphin, and there are smaller dolphins than the
common dolphin. In the last surf I noticed that there were river
dolphins in Asia as well as South America. It does not seem obvious
to me what the smallest cetacean species is. There are several small
ones that weigh as adults about 2/3rds the mass of an average adult
human. I am thinking from some surfs that the smaller dolphins have
an average brain mass of about 3/4ths that of an average adult human
but humans vary in their brain volume from about 800cc to over 2500cc.
To the best of my understanding, I am thinking their temporal lobes
are relatively more developed since the temporal lobe is generally
involved with the processing of sound.
I do not know if dolphins or whales or seals have a middle ear, or
what the capabilities of their vision is. Maybe all mammals do
have a middle ear or only some do. Probably most textbooks would
say that they do for the purpose of simplification.
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