• Pterosaur wing-body junction

    From Pandora@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 19 19:58:22 2021
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daud Deden@21:1/5 to Pandora on Thu Oct 21 12:06:22 2021
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and
    tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pandora@21:1/5 to daud.deden@gmail.com on Fri Oct 22 17:19:44 2021
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud.deden@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing
    associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD

    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daud Deden@21:1/5 to Pandora on Fri Oct 22 09:56:30 2021
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing >> associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD
    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.
    Yes, a nimble flying insectivore, comparable to songbirds, swifts, small bats. I wonder if it had derived specialized ears (acoustic, aerodynamic balance) vs more primitive spp.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daud Deden@21:1/5 to Daud Deden on Wed Oct 27 01:52:23 2021
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 12:56:31 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation. >>
    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing
    associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats >> and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value >> of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD
    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.
    Yes, a nimble flying insectivore, comparable to songbirds, swifts, small bats. I wonder if it had derived specialized ears (acoustic, aerodynamic balance) vs more primitive spp.

    Did later pterosaurs (eg. toothless tailless Pterodactyls) lay eggs on the ground like early pterosaurs or in arboreal bowl nests? How can that be determined?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daud Deden@21:1/5 to Daud Deden on Wed Oct 27 22:20:33 2021
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 4:52:25 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 12:56:31 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we >> observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing
    associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular >> feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of >> their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior >> wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD
    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.
    Yes, a nimble flying insectivore, comparable to songbirds, swifts, small bats. I wonder if it had derived specialized ears (acoustic, aerodynamic balance) vs more primitive spp.
    Did later pterosaurs (eg. reduced teeth tailless climbing Pterodactylus, toothless tailless pterodon) lay eggs on the ground like early pterosaurs penguin-like or in arboreal bowl nests? How can that be determined?
    Some sources claim pterosaurs were quadrupedal, some bipedal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pandora@21:1/5 to daud.deden@gmail.com on Thu Oct 28 17:10:41 2021
    On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 22:20:33 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud.deden@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 4:52:25 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 12:56:31 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160
    million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight
    performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we >> > > >> observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a
    pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing
    associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular >> > > >> feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of >> > > >> their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior >> > > >> wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur
    flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD
    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.
    Yes, a nimble flying insectivore, comparable to songbirds, swifts, small bats. I wonder if it had derived specialized ears (acoustic, aerodynamic balance) vs more primitive spp.
    Did later pterosaurs (eg. reduced teeth tailless climbing Pterodactylus, toothless tailless pterodon) lay eggs on the ground like early pterosaurs penguin-like or in arboreal bowl nests? How can that be determined?
    Some sources claim pterosaurs were quadrupedal, some bipedal.

    See:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0016699520300024

    "After two centuries of debate, ichnological arguments have led
    today to an almost global consensus on the terrestrial locomotion
    of pterodactyloid pterosaurs. When grounded, they were quadrupedal
    animals, with plantigrade tetradactyl pes, digitigrade tridactyl
    manus, erect parasagittal hindlimbs and more or less sprawled
    forelimbs due to the large folded wing digit."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daud Deden@21:1/5 to Pandora on Fri Oct 29 06:00:37 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:10:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 22:20:33 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 4:52:25 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 12:56:31 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing
    multifaceted flight performance benefits: Advanced aerodynamic
    smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation.

    Abstract

    Pterosaurs were the first vertebrate flyers and lived for over 160 >> > > >> million years. However, aspects of their flight anatomy and flight >> > > >> performance remain unclear. Using laser-stimulated fluorescence, we
    observed direct soft tissue evidence of a wing root fairing in a >> > > >> pterosaur, a feature that smooths out the wing–body junction, reducing
    associated drag, as in modern aircraft and flying animals. Unlike bats
    and birds, the pterosaur wing root fairing was unique in being
    primarily made of muscle rather than fur or feathers. As a muscular
    feature, pterosaurs appear to have used their fairing to access
    further flight performance benefits through sophisticated control of
    their wing root and contributions to wing elevation and/or anterior
    wing motion during the flight stroke. This study underscores the value
    of using new instrumentation to fill knowledge gaps in pterosaur >> > > >> flight anatomy and evolution.

    Open access:
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/44/e2107631118

    Excellent, thanks Pandora. I'm too rushed to read all, but a question. Did it have a long boney tail
    (thus compressional perching as seen in early pterosaurs, avians & anthropoids), or, did it have
    tendon-locking toes for upright perching & plucking and tail-lessening as in later pterosaurs, avians
    and hominoids? I suspect the latter, and expect the soft-tissue fairing indicated very advanced
    aerodynamic specialization not seen in early species. DD
    It's a pterodactyloid, therefore short-tailed.
    Yes, a nimble flying insectivore, comparable to songbirds, swifts, small bats. I wonder if it had derived specialized ears (acoustic, aerodynamic balance) vs more primitive spp.
    Did later pterosaurs (eg. reduced teeth tailless climbing Pterodactylus, toothless tailless pterodon) lay eggs on the ground like early pterosaurs penguin-like or in arboreal bowl nests? How can that be determined?
    Some sources claim pterosaurs were quadrupedal, some bipedal.
    See:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0016699520300024

    "After two centuries of debate, ichnological arguments have led
    today to an almost global consensus on the terrestrial locomotion
    of pterodactyloid pterosaurs. When grounded, they were quadrupedal
    animals, with plantigrade tetradactyl pes, digitigrade tridactyl
    manus, erect parasagittal hindlimbs and more or less sprawled
    forelimbs due to the large folded wing digit."

    Thanks. I don't know if they used the same posture/locomotion on tree branches or cliffs, nor if they sometimes went bipedal.
    Bats also fly and perch, some hang upside-down by tendon locking their feet, others apparently lock the tendons of all four limbs to cliff faces (head up) or cave ceilings (belly up). Afaik no bats catch prey with their feet raptor-style.
    Sloths use tendon lock, perhaps some opposums too, during rest afaict.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)