On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>As usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is subject, but
wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it. Another
article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis appears here:
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>
and here:
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289>
this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs known.
On 4/22/24 11:47 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs known.
wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it. Another
article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis appears here:
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>
and here:
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289> >> As usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is subject, but
It is not every day the WSJ gives space to fossil discoveries.
On 4/26/24 12:35 PM, trolidous wrote:
On 4/25/24 06:29, Popping Mad wrote:If only Nessie were a Ichthyosaur! I'll drink an Ichthyosaur Pale Ale
On 4/22/24 11:47 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> >>>>> wrote:As usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is subject, but >>>> this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it. Another >>>>> article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis appears here: >>>>>
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>
and here:
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289>
known.
It is not every day the WSJ gives space to fossil discoveries.
Well you know if there were one Plesiosaur, there might be more
than one. And in but a blink of an eye in geologic time Scotland
may have been covered with a lot of glaciers.
Nonetheless if this article is paywalled, the articles showing
plesiosaurs in the Great Glen getting tossed a few fish while
in some of those locks may be less expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Canal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Glen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ness
to it.
On 4/26/24 12:35 PM, trolidous wrote:<rainbow@colition.gov>
On 4/25/24 06:29, Popping Mad wrote:
On 4/22/24 11:47 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad
If only Nessie were a Ichthyosaur! I'll drink an Ichthyosaur Pale Alewrote:As usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is subject, but
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it. Another
article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis appears here:
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>
and here:
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289>
this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs
known.
It is not every day the WSJ gives space to fossil discoveries.
Well you know if there were one Plesiosaur, there might be more
than one. And in but a blink of an eye in geologic time Scotland
may have been covered with a lot of glaciers.
Nonetheless if this article is paywalled, the articles showing
plesiosaurs in the Great Glen getting tossed a few fish while
in some of those locks may be less expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Canal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Glen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ness
to it.
On 4/30/24 10:47 AM, trolidan wrote:
On 4/26/24 14:27, erik simpson wrote:It would help a lot if you could actually cite the sources for these
On 4/26/24 12:35 PM, trolidous wrote:<rainbow@colition.gov>
On 4/25/24 06:29, Popping Mad wrote:
On 4/22/24 11:47 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1wrote:
;
;
Another;
;
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it.
here:article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis appears
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>;
;
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289> >> >>>> As usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is;
and here:
;
;
subject, but
If only Nessie were a Ichthyosaur! I'll drink an Ichthyosaur Pale Ale >> > to it.;this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs;
known.
It is not every day the WSJ gives space to fossil discoveries.
Well you know if there were one Plesiosaur, there might be more
than one. And in but a blink of an eye in geologic time Scotland
may have been covered with a lot of glaciers.
;
Nonetheless if this article is paywalled, the articles showing
plesiosaurs in the Great Glen getting tossed a few fish while
in some of those locks may be less expensive.
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Canal
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Glen
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ness
;
So I did a little surfing on this on Wikipedia.
What are the odds.
The least common ancestor of the Ichtyosaurs and
something else was a:
species of sauropsida
species of synapsida
synapsida and sauropsida are closer to each other than
they are to ichthyosauria
ichthyosauria are actually derived from amphibians
Do you have any inside information from all of those
paywalled technical journals?
various notions. Were the citations all provided in a single Wikipedia article? If so, what?
I'm going with Sauropterygia, a subgroup of Diapsida, a subgroup of Sauropsida.
On 5/3/24 3:45 PM, trolidan wrote:
On 4/30/24 12:19, John Harshman wrote:
On 4/30/24 10:47 AM, trolidan wrote:
On 4/26/24 14:27, erik simpson wrote:It would help a lot if you could actually cite the sources for these
On 4/26/24 12:35 PM, trolidous wrote:<rainbow@colition.gov>
On 4/25/24 06:29, Popping Mad wrote:
On 4/22/24 11:47 AM, erik simpson wrote:
On 4/22/24 12:05 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:38:47 -0400, Popping Mad
https://www.wsj.com/science/largest-marine-reptile-sea-dragon-whale-a527269f?mod=wknd_pos1wrote:
;
;
Another;
;
The above link requires a subscription in order to read it.
appears here:article about the discovery of Ichthyotitan severnensis
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/remains-what-could-largest-marine-32609308>;
;
<https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0300289>;
and here:
;
;
subject, butAs usual, the pop articles do what they can to inflate is
Pale AleIf only Nessie were a Ichthyosaur! I'll drink an Ichthyosaur;this critter is definitely comparable to the biggest ichthyosaurs >>>> >>>> known.;
It is not every day the WSJ gives space to fossil discoveries.
Well you know if there were one Plesiosaur, there might be more
than one. And in but a blink of an eye in geologic time Scotland >>>> >> may have been covered with a lot of glaciers.
;
Nonetheless if this article is paywalled, the articles showing
plesiosaurs in the Great Glen getting tossed a few fish while
in some of those locks may be less expensive.
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Canal
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Glen
;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ness
;
to it.
So I did a little surfing on this on Wikipedia.
What are the odds.
The least common ancestor of the Ichtyosaurs and
something else was a:
species of sauropsida
species of synapsida
synapsida and sauropsida are closer to each other than
they are to ichthyosauria
ichthyosauria are actually derived from amphibians
Do you have any inside information from all of those
paywalled technical journals?
various notions. Were the citations all provided in a single
Wikipedia article? If so, what?
I'm going with Sauropterygia, a subgroup of Diapsida, a subgroup of
Sauropsida.
Here is a cut and paste from the Wikipedia article I was
surfing through earlier.
You will note that many of the claims are considered obsolete, and there
are exactly zero claims, even obsolete ones, that ichthyosaurs are not sauropsids, i.e. that they're synapsids.
And the end is the most current idea: definitely diapsids associated
with Sauropterygia and probably archosauromorphs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyosauria
Evolutionary history
Origin
The origin of the ichthyosaurs is contentious. Until recently, clear
transitional forms with land-dwelling vertebrate groups had not yet
been found, the earliest known species of the ichthyosaur lineage
being already fully aquatic. In 2014, a small basal ichthyosauriform
from the upper Lower Triassic was described that had been discovered
in China with characteristics suggesting an amphibious lifestyle. In
1937, Friedrich von Huene even hypothesised that ichthyosaurs were not
reptiles, but instead represented a lineage separately developed from
amphibians. Today, this notion has been discarded and a consensus
exists that ichthyosaurs are amniote tetrapods, having descended from
terrestrial egg-laying amniotes during the late Permian or the
earliest Triassic. However, establishing their position within the
amniote evolutionary tree has proven difficult, due to their heavily
derived morphology obscuring their ancestry. Several conflicting
hypotheses have been posited on the subject. In the second half of the
20th century, ichthyosaurs were usually assumed to be of the Anapsida,
seen as an early branch of "primitive" reptiles. This would explain
the early appearance of ichthyosaurs in the fossil record, and also
their lack of clear affinities with other reptile groups, as anapsids
were supposed to be little specialised. This hypothesis has become
unpopular for being inherently vague because Anapsida is an unnatural,
paraphyletic group. Modern exact quantitative cladistic analyses
consistently indicate that ichthyosaurs are members of the clade
Diapsida. Some studies showed a basal, or low, position in the diapsid
tree. More analyses result in their being Neodiapsida, a derived
diapsid subgroup.
Since the 1980s, a close relationship was assumed between the
Ichthyosauria and the Sauropterygia, another marine reptile group,
within an overarching Euryapsida, with one such study in 1997 by John
Merck showing them to be monophyletic archosauromorph euryapsids. This
has been contested over the years, with the Euryapsida being seen as
an unnatural polyphyletic assemblage of reptiles that happen to share
some adaptations to a swimming lifestyle. However, more recent studies
have shown further support for a monophyletic clade between
Ichthyosauromorpha, Sauropterygia, and Thalattosauria as a massive
marine clade of aquatic archosauromorphs originating in the Late
Permian and diversifying in the Early Triassic.
That Ichthyotitan seems like it was almost as large as a blue whale.
Comparing with a calculator and interchanging units. I am thinking
the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria were about two thirds the length
of a blue whale, but modern cruise ships, aircraft carriers, or
tankers and container ships made of metal are about 10 to 20 times
the length of a blue whale and have the surface area of about
a hectare on the ocean. Some of the largest Roman galleys also
made of wood might have been three or four times the length of some
of those 1500s ocean going vessels, but they likely often used
oars more for motive power.
As for Nessie, I have no idea how easily a cetacean could have
used the lock and damn system underneath the shadow of a ship
in the Caledonian Canal in say the middle 1800s.
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