• A Fourth Kind of Flying Vertebrate

    From Peter Nyikos@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 27 09:17:52 2023
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs," "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton
    in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    The reconstruction of *Ambopteryx* on its own Wiki page is much
    less detailed, but you can still make out some of the structure of the wings.


    Peter Nyikos
    Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
    University of South Carolina
    http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Nyikos@21:1/5 to Peter Nyikos on Fri Jul 28 19:08:12 2023
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:17:53 PM UTC-4, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs,"
    "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    I posted a little bit on Yi in the comments section of a YouTube video of an ornithopter.
    Unlike the drones with which almost everyone is familiar by now, this flew around like a bird
    or bat, flapping its wings in a way that could easily fool someone into thinking it was an animal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg-qoRN0co

    Another commenter said that the Ukrainians might be able to make good use of such an
    ornithopter. The only problem with that it was a very small one, and so not much use
    for carrying bombs. It may be possible for it to carry out reconnaisance, though.

    My comment went:
    Pausing the video at 1:02 reveals a strut in each wing right about where a finger is in a bat's wing. I could not make out more than one in each wing, which may make these wings even more like those of the extinct non-avian dinosaur YiQi [*sic*]:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    I don't like to brag, but I think the following may be likened to a one-eyed man being
    king in the land of the blind, so I hope readers will bear with me as I say that
    after 8 months it is first on the list sorted by top comments, out of 1548 comments.

    What makes this especially remarkable is that the first runner-up got 617 upvotes
    and 38 comments while I got 0 upvotes and 0 comments.

    What do readers make of that?


    Peter Nyikos
    Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
    Univ. of South Carolina at Columbia
    http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Harshman@21:1/5 to Peter Nyikos on Fri Jul 28 21:01:39 2023
    On 7/28/23 7:08 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:17:53 PM UTC-4, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs,"
    "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton >> in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    I posted a little bit on Yi in the comments section of a YouTube video of an ornithopter.
    Unlike the drones with which almost everyone is familiar by now, this flew around like a bird
    or bat, flapping its wings in a way that could easily fool someone into thinking it was an animal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg-qoRN0co

    Another commenter said that the Ukrainians might be able to make good use of such an
    ornithopter. The only problem with that it was a very small one, and so not much use
    for carrying bombs. It may be possible for it to carry out reconnaisance, though.

    My comment went:
    Pausing the video at 1:02 reveals a strut in each wing right about where a finger is in a bat's wing. I could not make out more than one in each wing, which may make these wings even more like those of the extinct non-avian dinosaur YiQi [*sic*]:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    I don't like to brag, but I think the following may be likened to a one-eyed man being
    king in the land of the blind, so I hope readers will bear with me as I say that
    after 8 months it is first on the list sorted by top comments, out of 1548 comments.

    What makes this especially remarkable is that the first runner-up got 617 upvotes
    and 38 comments while I got 0 upvotes and 0 comments.

    What do readers make of that?

    I think you need to figure out what algorithm makes yours the top
    comment with numbers like that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Nyikos@21:1/5 to John Harshman on Tue Aug 1 11:06:06 2023
    On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:01:50 AM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
    On 7/28/23 7:08 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:17:53 PM UTC-4, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs,"
    "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton
    in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    I posted a little bit on Yi in the comments section of a YouTube video of an ornithopter.
    Unlike the drones with which almost everyone is familiar by now, this flew around like a bird
    or bat, flapping its wings in a way that could easily fool someone into thinking it was an animal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg-qoRN0co

    Another commenter said that the Ukrainians might be able to make good use of such an
    ornithopter. The only problem with that it was a very small one, and so not much use
    for carrying bombs. It may be possible for it to carry out reconnaisance, though.

    My comment went:
    Pausing the video at 1:02 reveals a strut in each wing right about where a finger is in a bat's wing. I could not make out more than one in each wing, which may make these wings even more like those of the extinct non-avian dinosaur YiQi [*sic*]:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    I don't like to brag, but I think the following may be likened to a one-eyed man being
    king in the land of the blind, so I hope readers will bear with me as I say that
    after 8 months it is first on the list sorted by top comments, out of 1548 comments.

    What makes this especially remarkable is that the first runner-up got 617 upvotes
    and 38 comments while I got 0 upvotes and 0 comments.

    What do readers make of that?

    I think you need to figure out what algorithm makes yours the top
    comment with numbers like that.

    What makes you think it was due to an algorithm, as opposed to a decision
    by a human being?


    Peter Nyikos

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Harshman@21:1/5 to Peter Nyikos on Tue Aug 1 12:01:13 2023
    On 7/27/23 9:17 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs," "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    The reconstruction of *Ambopteryx* on its own Wiki page is much
    less detailed, but you can still make out some of the structure of the wings.

    One could make the argument that there are only two kinds of vertebrate
    wings, one in which the wing surface consists of feathers and the other
    in which it consists of a membrane supported by some kind of bony
    framework, the details of which vary.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Harshman@21:1/5 to Peter Nyikos on Tue Aug 1 11:17:54 2023
    On 8/1/23 11:06 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:01:50 AM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
    On 7/28/23 7:08 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:17:53 PM UTC-4, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs,"
    "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals. >>>>
    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton >>>> in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger, that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also
    supported by a long, bony strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    I posted a little bit on Yi in the comments section of a YouTube video of an ornithopter.
    Unlike the drones with which almost everyone is familiar by now, this flew around like a bird
    or bat, flapping its wings in a way that could easily fool someone into thinking it was an animal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg-qoRN0co

    Another commenter said that the Ukrainians might be able to make good use of such an
    ornithopter. The only problem with that it was a very small one, and so not much use
    for carrying bombs. It may be possible for it to carry out reconnaisance, though.

    My comment went:
    Pausing the video at 1:02 reveals a strut in each wing right about where a finger is in a bat's wing. I could not make out more than one in each wing, which may make these wings even more like those of the extinct non-avian dinosaur YiQi [*sic*]:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    I don't like to brag, but I think the following may be likened to a one-eyed man being
    king in the land of the blind, so I hope readers will bear with me as I say that
    after 8 months it is first on the list sorted by top comments, out of 1548 comments.

    What makes this especially remarkable is that the first runner-up got 617 upvotes
    and 38 comments while I got 0 upvotes and 0 comments.

    What do readers make of that?

    I think you need to figure out what algorithm makes yours the top
    comment with numbers like that.

    What makes you think it was due to an algorithm, as opposed to a decision
    by a human being?

    Quite right. I have no idea how that works. Still, one would have
    similar questions; who would the human being be, and what criteria would
    they use to rank these posts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trolidan7@21:1/5 to John Harshman on Sun Aug 6 20:24:00 2023
    On 7/28/23 21:01, John Harshman wrote:
    On 7/28/23 7:08 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:17:53 PM UTC-4, Peter Nyikos wrote:
    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in
    s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying
    lemurs,"
    "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    It would be a shame if *Yi* *qi* became widely known only for being
    the creature with the shortest scientific name.
    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats,
    birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a
    skeleton
    in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)
    Excerpt:
    It was a small, possibly tree-dwelling (arboreal) animal. Like other
    scansoriopterygids, Yi possessed an unusual, elongated third finger,
    that appears to have helped to support a membranous gliding plane
    made of skin. The planes of Yi qi were also supported by a long, bony
    strut attached to the wrist. This modified wrist bone and
    membrane-based plane is unique among all known dinosaurs, and might
    have resulted in wings similar in appearance to those of bats.
    [end of excerpt]

    I posted a little bit on Yi in the comments section of a YouTube video
    of an ornithopter.
    Unlike the drones with which almost everyone is familiar by now, this
    flew around like a bird
    or bat, flapping its wings in a way that could easily fool someone
    into thinking it was an animal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg-qoRN0co

    Another commenter said that the Ukrainians might be able to make good
    use of such an
    ornithopter. The only problem  with that it was a very small one, and
    so not much use
    for carrying bombs. It may be possible for it to carry out
    reconnaisance, though.

    My comment went:
    Pausing the video at 1:02 reveals a strut in each wing right about
    where a finger is in a bat's wing. I could not make out more than one
    in each wing, which may make these wings even more like those of the
    extinct non-avian dinosaur YiQi [*sic*]:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    I don't like to brag, but I think the following may be likened to a
    one-eyed man being
    king in the land of the blind, so I hope readers will bear with me as
    I say that
    after 8 months it is first on the list sorted by top comments, out of
    1548 comments.

    What makes this especially remarkable is that the first runner-up got
    617 upvotes
    and 38 comments while I got 0 upvotes and 0 comments.

    What do readers make of that?

    I think you need to figure out what algorithm makes yours the top
    comment with numbers like that.

    What? There are no lies, damn lies, and statistics?

    I am thinking that most statistics from content farms
    would say that the bat headed boy from the National
    Enquirer with the alien growing from his sixth finger
    was the top poster.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM@21:1/5 to Peter Nyikos on Tue Aug 22 20:32:27 2023
    Peter Nyikos wrote:

    We are all familiar with birds and bats, and I assume everyone in s.b.p. is familiar
    with pterosaurs. But how many know of the non-avian flying dinosaurs,
    *Yi* *qi* and its close relative *Ambopteryx*?
    They were apparently true fliers, unlike "flying squirrels," "flying lemurs," "flying phalangers" "flying fish," and other misnamed gliding animals.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004220307665

    Not a real good candidate for anything.

    It's okay to say "We don't know" instead of trying to shoehorn these
    things into a box labeled "Bird" or whatever.

    Its wing structure had bones very differently arranged than in bats, birds, or pterosaurs.
    The following webpage has two "life reconstructions" and one of a skeleton
    in white and the wing membranes in black.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_(dinosaur)

    The image looks very much like reconstructions of pterosaurs on
    the ground. That may mean is lived a similar lifestyle.



    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/726385068482936832

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