Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT), marc verhaegen <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
On 5/31/23 6:45 AM, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT), marc verhaegen
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
It's a characteristic of kooks that they reject phylogenetics, so you
can't bring up that sort of thing.
Look at Feduccia. Look at Schwartz.
And of course look at Verhaegen.
On Wed, 31 May 2023 08:42:23 -0700, John Harshman
<john.harshman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/31/23 6:45 AM, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT), marc verhaegen
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
It's a characteristic of kooks that they reject phylogenetics, so you
can't bring up that sort of thing.
D'oh!
Look at Feduccia. Look at Schwartz.
With Schwartz you mean Jeffrey H. Schwartz, I presume?
And of course look at Verhaegen.
Verhaegen is not even in the same league as Feduccia and Schwartz.
Despite his stubborn opposition to birds as dinosaurs, Professor
Feduccia is still quite knowledgeable in his field of expertise,
ornithology, as Professor Schwartz is in the field of biological anthropology, despite his stubborn support for an orangutan origin of
humans.
Verhaegen has no such credentials
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713 These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
some kudu runner:
Falsified twice recently:
:-DDD
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
:-DDD
My little little boy, this is about *Ardipithecus*!!
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
:-DDD
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
:-DDD
My little little boy, this is about *Ardipithecus*!!
Nope, it's about all hominins for which data are available.
It's a characteristic
On 5/31/23 11:42, John Harshman wrote:
It's a characteristic
why feed trolls
marc verhaegen <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
JTEM is my hero wrote:
Europe is more verdant now than it was in 1900.
It does not help anymore that some forest has been
grown back as the fossil fuel burning is too big emission.
But if you're going to "Argue" your deforestation, and not
just throw it out there as a cheap rationalization, you go
ahead and do that.
How much CO2 did the missing trees absorb? What are
emissions today?
About half billion hectares that absorbs 7.5 Gt.
I already posted that todays numbers are way more massive:
Emission 2022 from coal burning
15.5
11.2 Gt
7.3 Gt.
Nope, it's about all hominins for which data are available.
This is their single most parsimonious tree from the 2019 paper:
And this is the result of their Bayesian Inference Analysis
Both Gorilla and Pan are outside the hominin clade.
JTEM is my hero wrote:
Europe is more verdant now than it was in 1900.
It does not help anymore that some forest has been
grown back as the fossil fuel burning is too big emission.
But if you're going to "Argue" your deforestation, and not
just throw it out there as a cheap rationalization, you go
ahead and do that.
How much CO2 did the missing trees absorb? What are
emissions today?
About half billion hectares that absorbs 7.5 Gt.
I already posted that todays numbers are way more massive:
Emission 2022 from coal burning
15.5
11.2 Gt
7.3 Gt.
JTEM wrote:
How does this supposedly falsify him? You do this a lot. You post
random cites you never read and couldn't understand...
SPROING!
It appears that neither JTEM nor his buddy are acquainted with
phylogenetic analysis.
Pandora wrote:
marc verhaegen <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
Liar.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
How does this supposedly falsify him? You do this a lot. You post
random cites you never read and couldn't understand...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
You're retarded. Seriously. This couldn't be any less conclusive about ANYTHING, and certainly does address "Aquarboreal" at all.
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
Lol!
You honestly have no clue what so ever.
Pan & Gorilla evolved from bipedal ancestors. Their ancestors looked
more like Homo than Pan or Gorilla.
You're comparing Pan & Gorilla RIGHT NOW to animals that lived
millions of years ago and then saying they don't match. THEN you
compare animals that lived millions of years ago to other animals
that lived millions of years ago, and declaring that they're a closer
match.
What a fucking STUPID thing to do!
John Harshman wrote:
JTEM wrote:
How does this supposedly falsify him? You do this a lot. You post
random cites you never read and couldn't understand...
SPROING!
So no answer.
It appears that neither JTEM nor his buddy are acquainted with
phylogenetic analysis.
Look. I just spelled this out in no uncertain terms, without you grasping
it, so there's no hope here. And, honestly, your disorder won't allow you
to admit your frequent mistakes. But...
You're "Analyzing" things that don't exist. There are no Chimp or Gorilla fossils for you to analyze. The oldest claimed Chimp fossils are just
teeth, and that's hardly definitive, and they're only about half a million years old. Sediba is like 2 million years old.
There is nothing even remotely similar to valid in your claims. Nothing.
You don't even seem to be aware of the massive temporal divide here,
or the fact that evolution has been occurring the whole time!
AND, just to rest that cherry on top here: These "Homo" traits aren't
"Homo" traits. They predate Homo.
Bipedalism is *Way* older than Homo, the human hand is the more
derived... etc.
As I said
John Harshman wrote:
As I said
You make stupid pronouncement. You're *way* out of your
league here, which is why you resort to the sock puppets.
You know what you are, too.
There are no Chimp or Gorilla fossils contemporary to Ardi
or anything else you care to misunderstand. Now the
safest, most conservative, absolute simplest answer is that
we have found Chimp ancestors, they just don't look like
Chimps. Because they didn't. Because they looked like Homo.
They were bipedal, for example...
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
:-DDD
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X >> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713 >> These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
:-DDD My little little boy, this is about *Ardipithecus*!!
Nope, it's about all hominins for which data are available.
JTEM wrote:
There are no Chimp or Gorilla fossils contemporary to Ardi
or anything else you care to misunderstand. Now the
safest, most conservative, absolute simplest answer is that
we have found Chimp ancestors, they just don't look like
Chimps. Because they didn't. Because they looked like Homo.
They were bipedal, for example...
So you're saying that the data we don't have would, if we had it,
support your claims.
John Harshman wrote:
JTEM wrote:
There are no Chimp or Gorilla fossils contemporary to Ardi
or anything else you care to misunderstand. Now the
safest, most conservative, absolute simplest answer is that
we have found Chimp ancestors, they just don't look like
Chimps. Because they didn't. Because they looked like Homo.
They were bipedal, for example...
So you're saying that the data we don't have would, if we had it,No, you blithering idiot. YOU are saying that. You're saying "Well
support your claims.
we don't have Chimp and Gorilla ancestors to compare anything
to but if we do compare them then they're different."
I'm saying you're a frigging idiot and the simplest, most conservative
answer is that we do have Chimp & Gorilla ancestors, their fossils.
They just don't look like Chimps and Gorillas.
But either way it doesn't matter. Whatever age you want to cherry
pick for the LCA, bipedalism is older. So Chimps still evolved from
a bipedal ancestor.
As the good Doctor pointed out in his excellent Youtube address,
these traits are NOT "Homo" traits. They predate Homo by a long
ways. Most of the history of bipedalism amongst our ancestors
took place BEFORE Homo habilis, popularly credited as the very
first of our genus.
So going by what YOU know, what YOU believe, it's goddamn
freaking STUPID to make the claims YOU are making here.
On 5/31/23 6:45 AM, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT), marc verhaegen <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
It's a characteristic of kooks that they reject phylogenetics, so you
can't bring up that sort of thing. Look at Feduccia.
Look at Schwartz.
And of course look at Verhaegen.
On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:42:28 AM UTC-4, John Harshman wrote:
On 5/31/23 6:45 AM, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2023 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT), marc verhaegen
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
These phylogenetic analyses show Australopithecus and Paranthropus to
be part of a clade that includes Homo, but not Pan and Gorilla.
It's good to see Pandora posting here to s.b.p. again.
If you and a bunch of other talk.origins regulars hadn't
occupied my attention with off-topic bilge, I would have
looked at sci.bio.paleontology at least ten days ago, and
seen this post in timely fashion.
It's a characteristic of kooks that they reject phylogenetics, so you
can't bring up that sort of thing. Look at Feduccia.
Feduccia rejects phylogenetic analyses of bird placement that
do not include representatives from all the major clades of Archosauria.
At one point you admitted that there were very few that
aren't confined to Dinosauria (or even Theropoda?).
You rejected an extensive analysis that did include such representatives, on grounds
that seemed to be very weak to me at the time. It was:
"Cladistics and the Origins of Birds: A Review and Two New Analyses,"
by F.C. James and J. A. Pourtless IV, Ornithological Monographs 66 (2009): 1 - 78.
> Look at Schwartz.
I'll pass on that for now.
And of course look at Verhaegen.
I finally got completely fed up with him. His spam is threatening to destroy s.b.p.
almost as much as that of Thrinaxodon did back in the previous decade. Not as crazy,
but guilty of blatant self-advertisement with no attempt to have a
serious discussion with anyone. Reminiscent of Dr. Dr. Kleinman of talk.origins.
It's a good thing talk.origins is far more robust than sci.bio.paleontology, otherwise
he'd try to take that group over too.
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X >>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
Bipedalism is *Way* older than Homo, the human hand is the more
derived... etc.
JTEM wrote:
Bipedalism is *Way* older than Homo, the human hand is the more
derived... etc.
LESS. I stated it backwards. And nobody noticed.
Figures.
Australopiths = Aquarboreal Ancestors of African Apes
Some incredible imbecile:
Falsified twice recently:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724841830143X >> >>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248422001713
Not at all: these papers are about Ardipithecus & anamensis!!
Why not read them before trying to use them?? :-D
Who can tell
And Sahelanthropus, Australopithecus afarensis, A. africanus, A.
garhi, and A. sediba, Paranthropus aethiopicus, P. robustus, and P.
boisei, Kenyanthropus, Homo ruldolfensis, H. habilis, H. ergaster, and
H. sapiens, Pan, Gorilla, Pongo, Hylobates.
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