An open access paper in Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15535-6

Describes a new early Cretaceous herbivorous dinosaur from Patagonia. the abstract:

"The early evolution of thyreophoran dinosaurs is thought to have occurred primarily in northern continents since most evidence comes from the Lower and Middle Jurassic of Europe and North America. The diversification into stegosaurs and ankylosaurs is
obscured by a patchy fossil record comprising only a handful of fragmentary fossils, most with uncertain phylogenetic affinities. Here we report the discovery of a new armoured dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous of Argentina, recovered
phylogenetically using various datasets either as a basal thyreophoran or a stem ankylosaur, closely related to Scelidosaurus. It bears unusual anatomical features showing that several traits traditionally associated with the heavy Cretaceous
thyreophorans did not occur universally. Jakapil kaniukura gen. et sp. nov. is the first definitive thyreophoran species from the Argentinian Patagonia. Unlike most thyreophorans, it seems to show a bipedal stance, as in Scutellosaurus. Jakapil also
shows that early thyreophorans had a much broader geographic distribution than previously thought. It is a member of an ancient basal thyreophoran lineage that survived until the Late Cretaceous in South America."

I'm intrigued by the much diminished front limbs, very reminiscient of various carnivorous dinosaur (not just T. rex).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:46:18 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 8:27 AM, erik simpson wrote:

An open access paper in Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15535-6

Describes a new early Cretaceous herbivorous dinosaur from Patagonia. the abstract:

"The early evolution of thyreophoran dinosaurs is thought to have occurred primarily in northern continents since most evidence comes from the Lower and Middle Jurassic of Europe and North America. The diversification into stegosaurs and ankylosaurs

is obscured by a patchy fossil record comprising only a handful of fragmentary fossils, most with uncertain phylogenetic affinities. Here we report the discovery of a new armoured dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous of Argentina, recovered
phylogenetically using various datasets either as a basal thyreophoran or a stem ankylosaur, closely related to Scelidosaurus. It bears unusual anatomical features showing that several traits traditionally associated with the heavy Cretaceous
thyreophorans did not occur universally. Jakapil kaniukura gen. et sp. nov. is the first definitive thyreophoran species from the Argentinian Patagonia. Unlike most thyreophorans, it seems to show a bipedal stance, as in Scutellosaurus. Jakapil also
shows that early thyreophorans had a much broader geographic distribution than previously thought. It is a member of an ancient basal thyreophoran lineage that survived until the Late Cretaceous in South America."

I'm intrigued by the much diminished front limbs, very reminiscient of various carnivorous dinosaur (not just T. rex).

Well, now, note that the forelimb reconstruction is based on two small fragments, proximal bits of a humerus and an ulna. And the bipedal
stance is additionally supported by a substantially complete femur plus small fragments of a tibia and fibula plus, apparently, the shape of the scapula. Still, thyreophorans in general, including the ones
reconstructed as quadrupeds, have quite short forelimbs.

As have stegosaurids. I also note the polytomic mess in Neornithischia (their Fig. 5).

"However, the incompleteness of the remains demands caution to define
the stance of Jakapil."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 11:54:58 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 9:08 AM, erik simpson wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:46:18 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 8:27 AM, erik simpson wrote:

An open access paper in Nature
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15535-6

Describes a new early Cretaceous herbivorous dinosaur from Patagonia. the abstract:

"The early evolution of thyreophoran dinosaurs is thought to have occurred primarily in northern continents since most evidence comes from the Lower and Middle Jurassic of Europe and North America. The diversification into stegosaurs and

ankylosaurs is obscured by a patchy fossil record comprising only a handful of fragmentary fossils, most with uncertain phylogenetic affinities. Here we report the discovery of a new armoured dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous of Argentina,
recovered phylogenetically using various datasets either as a basal thyreophoran or a stem ankylosaur, closely related to Scelidosaurus. It bears unusual anatomical features showing that several traits traditionally associated with the heavy Cretaceous
thyreophorans did not occur universally. Jakapil kaniukura gen. et sp. nov. is the first definitive thyreophoran species from the Argentinian Patagonia. Unlike most thyreophorans, it seems to show a bipedal stance, as in Scutellosaurus. Jakapil also
shows that early thyreophorans had a much broader geographic distribution than previously thought. It is a member of an ancient basal thyreophoran lineage that survived until the Late Cretaceous in South America."

I'm intrigued by the much diminished front limbs, very reminiscient of various carnivorous dinosaur (not just T. rex).

Well, now, note that the forelimb reconstruction is based on two small
fragments, proximal bits of a humerus and an ulna. And the bipedal
stance is additionally supported by a substantially complete femur plus >> small fragments of a tibia and fibula plus, apparently, the shape of the >> scapula. Still, thyreophorans in general, including the ones
reconstructed as quadrupeds, have quite short forelimbs.

As have stegosaurids. I also note the polytomic mess in Neornithischia (their Fig. 5).

Maybe they need a bigger data set. Look at the bootstrap values on some
of the branches that aren't collapsed. I see some in the teens.

A speculation: could the low bootstraps and polytomies appear because too many fossils
have been identified as gen. sp. nov. when they really aren't?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:02:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 12:53 PM, erik simpson wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 11:54:58 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 9:08 AM, erik simpson wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:46:18 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>> On 8/12/22 8:27 AM, erik simpson wrote:

An open access paper in Nature
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15535-6

Describes a new early Cretaceous herbivorous dinosaur from Patagonia. the abstract:

"The early evolution of thyreophoran dinosaurs is thought to have occurred primarily in northern continents since most evidence comes from the Lower and Middle Jurassic of Europe and North America. The diversification into stegosaurs and

ankylosaurs is obscured by a patchy fossil record comprising only a handful of fragmentary fossils, most with uncertain phylogenetic affinities. Here we report the discovery of a new armoured dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous of Argentina,
recovered phylogenetically using various datasets either as a basal thyreophoran or a stem ankylosaur, closely related to Scelidosaurus. It bears unusual anatomical features showing that several traits traditionally associated with the heavy Cretaceous
thyreophorans did not occur universally. Jakapil kaniukura gen. et sp. nov. is the first definitive thyreophoran species from the Argentinian Patagonia. Unlike most thyreophorans, it seems to show a bipedal stance, as in Scutellosaurus. Jakapil also
shows that early thyreophorans had a much broader geographic distribution than previously thought. It is a member of an ancient basal thyreophoran lineage that survived until the Late Cretaceous in South America."

I'm intrigued by the much diminished front limbs, very reminiscient of various carnivorous dinosaur (not just T. rex).

Well, now, note that the forelimb reconstruction is based on two small >>>> fragments, proximal bits of a humerus and an ulna. And the bipedal
stance is additionally supported by a substantially complete femur plus >>>> small fragments of a tibia and fibula plus, apparently, the shape of the
scapula. Still, thyreophorans in general, including the ones
reconstructed as quadrupeds, have quite short forelimbs.

As have stegosaurids. I also note the polytomic mess in Neornithischia (their Fig. 5).

Maybe they need a bigger data set. Look at the bootstrap values on some >> of the branches that aren't collapsed. I see some in the teens.

A speculation: could the low bootstraps and polytomies appear because too many fossils
have been identified as gen. sp. nov. when they really aren't?

Possible. I've never heard of some of those genera. I would also suspect large amounts of missing data. Some of those guys (including of course
the subject of the paper) are very fragmentary.

What is your point? Why are you posting this?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 1:22:31 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/13/22 12:16 AM, Glenn wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:02:18 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:

On 8/12/22 12:53 PM, erik simpson wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 11:54:58 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>> On 8/12/22 9:08 AM, erik simpson wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:46:18 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote: >>>>>> On 8/12/22 8:27 AM, erik simpson wrote:

An open access paper in Nature
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15535-6

Describes a new early Cretaceous herbivorous dinosaur from Patagonia. the abstract:

"The early evolution of thyreophoran dinosaurs is thought to have occurred primarily in northern continents since most evidence comes from the Lower and Middle Jurassic of Europe and North America. The diversification into stegosaurs and

ankylosaurs is obscured by a patchy fossil record comprising only a handful of fragmentary fossils, most with uncertain phylogenetic affinities. Here we report the discovery of a new armoured dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous of Argentina,
recovered phylogenetically using various datasets either as a basal thyreophoran or a stem ankylosaur, closely related to Scelidosaurus. It bears unusual anatomical features showing that several traits traditionally associated with the heavy Cretaceous
thyreophorans did not occur universally. Jakapil kaniukura gen. et sp. nov. is the first definitive thyreophoran species from the Argentinian Patagonia. Unlike most thyreophorans, it seems to show a bipedal stance, as in Scutellosaurus. Jakapil also
shows that early thyreophorans had a much broader geographic distribution than previously thought. It is a member of an ancient basal thyreophoran lineage that survived until the Late Cretaceous in South America."

I'm intrigued by the much diminished front limbs, very reminiscient of various carnivorous dinosaur (not just T. rex).

Well, now, note that the forelimb reconstruction is based on two small
fragments, proximal bits of a humerus and an ulna. And the bipedal >>>>>> stance is additionally supported by a substantially complete femur plus
small fragments of a tibia and fibula plus, apparently, the shape of the
scapula. Still, thyreophorans in general, including the ones
reconstructed as quadrupeds, have quite short forelimbs.

As have stegosaurids. I also note the polytomic mess in Neornithischia (their Fig. 5).

Maybe they need a bigger data set. Look at the bootstrap values on some >>>> of the branches that aren't collapsed. I see some in the teens.

A speculation: could the low bootstraps and polytomies appear because too many fossils
have been identified as gen. sp. nov. when they really aren't?

Possible. I've never heard of some of those genera. I would also suspect >> large amounts of missing data. Some of those guys (including of course
the subject of the paper) are very fragmentary.

What is your point? Why are you posting this?

I was answering a question. I'm not surprised you don't recognize that
sort of thing, never having done it yourself.

That I have never answered a question comes as a great surprise.
But then you know best. Just realize that you didn't answer the questions.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)