• Major shake-up suggests dinosaurs may have 'UK origin'

    From Garrison Hilliard@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 23 14:35:09 2017
    XPost: bit.listserv.skeptic, sci.paleontology

    By Pallab Ghosh
    Science correspondent, BBC News

    The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
    possibly in an area that is now Britain.

    This is one of the conclusions of the first detailed re-evaluation of the relationships between dinosaurs for 130 years.

    It shows that the current theory of how dinosaurs evolved and where they
    came from may well be wrong.

    This major shake-up of dinosaur theory is published in this weeks's
    edition of the journal Nature.

    "We may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs
    were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group itself could
    have
    originated on these shores" - Matthew Baron, Cambridge University

    The reassessment shows that the meat eating beasts, such as Tyrannosaurus
    rex and Velociraptor, have been wrongly classified in the dinosaur family
    tree.

    One of the implications is that dinosaurs first emerged 15 million years earlier than previously believed.

    And the fossil evidence suggests that this origin may have occurred
    further north than current thinking suggests - possibly in an area that is
    now the UK, according to the new study's lead author, Matthew Baron of Cambridge University.

    "The northern continents certainly played a much bigger role in dinosaur evolution than we previously thought and dinosaurs may have originated in
    the UK," he told BBC News.

    The previous version of the dinosaur family tree was developed 130 years
    ago by Harry Govier Seeley, a palaeontologist also working at Kings
    College, London.

    By comparing the size, shapes and arrangements of fossilised bones of
    different species of dinosaurs and how they changed over time, he devised
    a theory of how they were related and how they evolved.

    He concluded that there were two main groups of dinosaurs: those whose hip bones were like those of modern-day birds, which Seeley called
    Ornithischia, and those whose hip bones were more reptile-like, which he
    named Saurischia.

    The bird-hipped group were all exclusively plant-eaters and included
    familiar creatures such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops.

    The lizard-hipped group had two branches: the plant-eaters, such as Brontosaurus, and the meat-eaters, such as T. rex.

    This organisation has been unchallenged until now.

    In redrawing the relationships, researchers studied many more bones and included more species, quite a few of which have been discovered only in
    the past 30 years.

    The team's analysis suggests that Seeley got it wrong.

    The new approach argues for the meat-eaters, a group known as theropods,
    to be moved into the same classification as the bird-hipped dinosaurs.
    Fossil of SalltopusImage copyrightBBC NEWS
    Image caption

    This fossil found in Lossiemouth in Scotland is of a dinosaur the size of
    a cat. It is now thought to be close to the base of the new dinosaur tree, raising the possibility that these iconic creatures may have had their
    origins in the UK

    Cambridge's Prof David Norman, who supervised the study, said it
    represented a major departure from past thinking.

    "All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the
    vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives
    academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," he explained.

    "It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
    will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come."
    All the major text-books covering the topic of the evolution of the
    dinosaurs will now need to be re-written
    Prof David Norman, Cambrdige University

    The reason that the Northern Hemisphere, and the UK in particular, has
    become more likely to be the place for the emergence of the first
    dinosaurs is the fact that two crucial fossils were found in Scotland and England.

    For decades they were dismissed as unimportant species, but following the redrawing of the dinosaur tree they are now placed close to its base.

    The Scottish and English finds suggest that it is now more likely that the first dinosaurs emerged 245 million years ago in the northern part of the planet on a land mass called Laurasia, rather than 230 million years ago
    on a more southerly unit called Gondwana.

    Matthew Baron said the results came as a "shock".

    "A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
    world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
    itself could have originated on these shores."

    The researchers involved cautioned, though, that the fossil record for
    early dinosaurs is so sparse that it would be difficult to make any firm
    claims at this stage for their origins. But the team hopes that its
    findings will spur palaeontologists to search for more fossil evidence to
    back up the new ideas.

    A challenge to one of main theories of dinosaur evolution is bound to be controversial.

    Now we have our new tree we can use it as a foundation to understand how dinosaur features evolved
    Prof Paul Barrett, Natural History Museum

    Prof Hans Sues of the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC, US, said that
    the findings had to be tested and corroborated.

    "I am sceptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
    results - but I keep an open mind," he told BBC News.

    Prof Paul Barrett of London's Natural History Museum, who was involved in
    the study and came up with the idea of testing Seeley's old theory, said
    that the new family tree seemed more logical than the previous one.

    "Now we have our evolutionary tree, we can use it as a foundation to
    understand how dinosaur features evolved over time, and it is already
    beginning to help us explain some questions that have puzzled us," he
    added.

    Among those questions is the fact that birds are thought to have evolved
    from meat-eating dinosaurs. But under the old scheme, they were not in the bird-hipped group.

    The new tree fits more neatly with the observation that many meat-eating species and bird-hipped dinosaurs had feathers. The fact that previously
    they were in separate groups led some to speculate that all dinosaurs, including the long-necked sauropods were feathered. But there has been no fossil evidence for this, and it is a suggestion that never really took
    hold.

    The latest work also indicates that dinosaurs evolved into meat-eaters on
    two separate occasions during their evolution and it even implies that the
    very first dinosaur was omnivorous and therefore ate both plants and meat. Dinosaur HipsImage copyrightDAVID NORMAN
    Image caption

    Up until now dinosaurs were either classified as bird-hipped or
    Lizard-hipped

    There was, however, one potentially disastrous consequence of the new
    scheme.

    It could have meant that the long-necked dinosaurs such Brontosaurus and Diplodocus would not strictly speaking be classed as dinosaurs. But
    anxious not to be known as the people who expelled the Natural History
    Museum's emblematic Dippy the Diplodocus skeleton from the status of
    dinosaur, Matt Baron and his fellow researchers carefully reworded the definition.

    "I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur. That would have created a lot
    of upset. They are a very well known group and everyone has recognised
    them to be dinosaurs. To be truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of
    every conference I went to for the rest of my career."
    Huxley's triumph

    Mr Baron's new family tree has similarities to ideas developed by the
    biologist Thomas Henry Huxley in 1870. He believed, correctly as it turns
    out, that birds descended from meat-eating dinosaurs and he included them
    then with the bird-hipped dinosaurs in a group he named Ornithoscelida, or bird-limbed.

    At the time Huxley's ideas were roundly dismissed and eclipsed by
    Seeley's.

    As an acknowledgement of Huxley's contribution, the team has revived the
    name of Ornithoscelida for his new combined group.

    As well as being a remarkable piece of research in itself, the work is a vignette of the scientific process itself - how challenging old, well-established ideas with a fresh eye is always worthwhile and can often bring new insights.

    "We've proved Huxley right," said Mr Baron. "We didn't pay any attention
    to any of the dogma of the past 130 years. We tried to incorporate no
    prior assumption and so we have pulled apart the tree and reassembled it
    and have come up with solutions to questions that have been troubling scientists for a very long time."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39305750

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    skeptic@linuxmafia.com
    http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/skeptic
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  • From Garrison Hilliard@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 24 12:55:18 2017
    XPost: bit.listserv.skeptic, sci.paleontology

    Scientists get 'hip' to major findings and a shakeup in the dinosaur
    family tree (+video)

    A newly proposed family tree aims to rewrite the history of some of the
    most famous dinosaurs.

    MARCH 23, 2017 The earliest dinosaurs may have roared with a British
    accent, according to a new study.

    And that’s the least of the fallout from a newly proposed dinosaur family
    tree that upends and bulldozes the one that stood for the past 130 years.
    If lead author Matthew Baron and his colleagues are correct, dinosaurs may
    have emerged millions of years earlier than previously thought, and
    A-listers such as Tyrannosaurus rex and Velociraptor may have been misclassified. Oh, and the first dinosaurs could have come from England.

    While genetic data gains ground as a method of determining how closely
    living species are related, most dinosaur DNA decayed millions of years
    ago, so scientists have to rely on the classic technique of comparing
    physical features, such as the shapes of bones.

    One such pivotal divide hinges on hip shape, which has long split
    dinosaurs into two groups: those with hips like birds and those with hips
    like lizards. The bird-hipped Ornithischia group was made up of mostly
    plant eaters such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops, while the reptile-hipped Saurischia group welcomed those of all diets, including the vegetarian Brontosaurus and the carnivorous T. rex.

    Mr. Baron’s new analysis, which draws on a much wider variety of samples
    than what was available a century ago, concluded that the meat eaters were
    out of place. It turns out that Ornithischia has always been a bit of a
    wild card, with hips that have been described as “enigmatically
    organized.” In the light of a number of new species discovered in just the
    past 30 years, Baron suggests paleontologists should actually consider
    those meat eaters to be members of the Ornithischia family.

    This new place would resolve some longstanding mysteries, such as why many
    meat eaters show birdlike features, such as feathers, despite also having lizard-looking hips.

    "It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
    will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come," Cambridge University’s David Norman, who supervised the study, told the
    BBC.

    And fruit is falling already. The reorganization places two fossils in particular near the base of the new tree. These previously peripheral
    species, originally unearthed in Scotland and England, now find themselves
    in a role of central importance, suggesting that early dinosaurs first
    evolved 245 million years ago in what is now the United Kingdom, rather
    than 230 million years ago in today’s East Africa.

    "A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
    world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
    itself could have originated on these shores," explained Baron.

    But Great Britain and Ireland were unrecognizable back then. Part of the supercontinent Laurasia, they were crammed together with what is now North America and Eurasia into one giant landmass after the breakup of Pangea.
    This finding contradicts the established model, which proposes that
    dinosaurs emerged on the southerly supercontinent of Gondwana, which would
    go on to become South America, Africa, Australia, and New Zealand.

    The new tree has plenty of critics as well. Hans Sues of the Smithsonian
    Museum in Washington, D.C., told the BBC that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    "I am skeptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
    results but I keep an open mind," he said.

    Those involved with the study agree that such a huge claim needs
    independent verification.

    "All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the
    vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives
    academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," Dr. Norman said.

    The team points out that the early dinosaur fossil record is quite thin,
    but hopes future discoveries will bear out their proposals.

    The new classification did feature at least two prominent casualties.
    Under the updated tree, old favorites such as Brontosaurus and Diplodocus
    could no longer technically be called dinosaurs.

    Perhaps learning from the public outcry over Pluto’s loss of status as a planet, Baron and his team carefully redefined their usage of the term "dinosaur" to avoid angering dino-fans.

    "I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur," said Baron, referring to the beloved Diplodocus skeleton in the lobby of London’s Natural History
    Museum. "That would have created a lot of upset. They are a very well
    known group and everyone has recognised them to be dinosaurs. To be
    truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of every conference I went to for
    the rest of my career."

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2017/0323/Scientists-get-hip-to-major-findings-and-a-shakeup-in-the-dinosaur-family-tree-video

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  • From Rick Moen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 24 13:14:08 2017
    XPost: bit.listserv.skeptic, sci.paleontology

    Quoting Garrison Hilliard (garrison@efn.org):

    By Pallab Ghosh
    Science correspondent, BBC News

    The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
    possibly in an area that is now Britain.

    [insert joke about the House of Lords here]


    _______________________________________________
    Skeptix mailing list
    Skeptix@lists.opn.org http://lists.opn.org/mailman/listinfo/skeptix_lists.opn.org

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  • From Dale Sharp@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 24 13:18:19 2017
    XPost: bit.listserv.skeptic, sci.paleontology

    One thought: Piltdown saurid.
    Dale


    Major shake-up suggests dinosaurs may have 'UK origin'

    From: Garrison Hilliard <septix@lists.opn.org>

    By Pallab Ghosh
    Science correspondent, BBC News

    The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
    possibly in an area that is now Britain.

    This is one of the conclusions of the first detailed re-evaluation of the >relationships between dinosaurs for 130 years.

    It shows that the current theory of how dinosaurs evolved and where they
    came from may well be wrong.

    This major shake-up of dinosaur theory is published in this weeks's
    edition of the journal Nature.

    "We may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs
    were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group itself could
    have
    originated on these shores" - Matthew Baron, Cambridge University

    The reassessment shows that the meat eating beasts, such as Tyrannosaurus
    rex and Velociraptor, have been wrongly classified in the dinosaur family >tree.

    One of the implications is that dinosaurs first emerged 15 million years >earlier than previously believed.

    And the fossil evidence suggests that this origin may have occurred
    further north than current thinking suggests - possibly in an area that is >now the UK, according to the new study's lead author, Matthew Baron of >Cambridge University.

    "The northern continents certainly played a much bigger role in dinosaur >evolution than we previously thought and dinosaurs may have originated in
    the UK," he told BBC News.

    The previous version of the dinosaur family tree was developed 130 years
    ago by Harry Govier Seeley, a palaeontologist also working at Kings
    College, London.

    By comparing the size, shapes and arrangements of fossilised bones of >different species of dinosaurs and how they changed over time, he devised
    a theory of how they were related and how they evolved.

    He concluded that there were two main groups of dinosaurs: those whose hip >bones were like those of modern-day birds, which Seeley called
    Ornithischia, and those whose hip bones were more reptile-like, which he >named Saurischia.

    The bird-hipped group were all exclusively plant-eaters and included
    familiar creatures such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops.

    The lizard-hipped group had two branches: the plant-eaters, such as >Brontosaurus, and the meat-eaters, such as T. rex.

    This organisation has been unchallenged until now.

    In redrawing the relationships, researchers studied many more bones and >included more species, quite a few of which have been discovered only in
    the past 30 years.

    The team's analysis suggests that Seeley got it wrong.

    The new approach argues for the meat-eaters, a group known as theropods,
    to be moved into the same classification as the bird-hipped dinosaurs.
    Fossil of SalltopusImage copyrightBBC NEWS
    Image caption

    This fossil found in Lossiemouth in Scotland is of a dinosaur the size of
    a cat. It is now thought to be close to the base of the new dinosaur tree, >raising the possibility that these iconic creatures may have had their >origins in the UK

    Cambridge's Prof David Norman, who supervised the study, said it
    represented a major departure from past thinking.

    "All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the >vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives >academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," he explained.

    "It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
    will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come." >All the major text-books covering the topic of the evolution of the
    dinosaurs will now need to be re-written
    Prof David Norman, Cambrdige University

    The reason that the Northern Hemisphere, and the UK in particular, has
    become more likely to be the place for the emergence of the first
    dinosaurs is the fact that two crucial fossils were found in Scotland and >England.

    For decades they were dismissed as unimportant species, but following the >redrawing of the dinosaur tree they are now placed close to its base.

    The Scottish and English finds suggest that it is now more likely that the >first dinosaurs emerged 245 million years ago in the northern part of the >planet on a land mass called Laurasia, rather than 230 million years ago
    on a more southerly unit called Gondwana.

    Matthew Baron said the results came as a "shock".

    "A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
    world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest >dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
    itself could have originated on these shores."

    The researchers involved cautioned, though, that the fossil record for
    early dinosaurs is so sparse that it would be difficult to make any firm >claims at this stage for their origins. But the team hopes that its
    findings will spur palaeontologists to search for more fossil evidence to >back up the new ideas.

    A challenge to one of main theories of dinosaur evolution is bound to be >controversial.

    Now we have our new tree we can use it as a foundation to understand how >dinosaur features evolved
    Prof Paul Barrett, Natural History Museum

    Prof Hans Sues of the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC, US, said that
    the findings had to be tested and corroborated.

    "I am sceptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
    results - but I keep an open mind," he told BBC News.

    Prof Paul Barrett of London's Natural History Museum, who was involved in
    the study and came up with the idea of testing Seeley's old theory, said
    that the new family tree seemed more logical than the previous one.

    "Now we have our evolutionary tree, we can use it as a foundation to >understand how dinosaur features evolved over time, and it is already >beginning to help us explain some questions that have puzzled us," he
    added.

    Among those questions is the fact that birds are thought to have evolved
    from meat-eating dinosaurs. But under the old scheme, they were not in the >bird-hipped group.

    The new tree fits more neatly with the observation that many meat-eating >species and bird-hipped dinosaurs had feathers. The fact that previously
    they were in separate groups led some to speculate that all dinosaurs, >including the long-necked sauropods were feathered. But there has been no >fossil evidence for this, and it is a suggestion that never really took
    hold.

    The latest work also indicates that dinosaurs evolved into meat-eaters on
    two separate occasions during their evolution and it even implies that the >very first dinosaur was omnivorous and therefore ate both plants and meat. >Dinosaur HipsImage copyrightDAVID NORMAN
    Image caption

    Up until now dinosaurs were either classified as bird-hipped or
    Lizard-hipped

    There was, however, one potentially disastrous consequence of the new
    scheme.

    It could have meant that the long-necked dinosaurs such Brontosaurus and >Diplodocus would not strictly speaking be classed as dinosaurs. But
    anxious not to be known as the people who expelled the Natural History >Museum's emblematic Dippy the Diplodocus skeleton from the status of >dinosaur, Matt Baron and his fellow researchers carefully reworded the >definition.

    "I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur. That would have created a lot
    of upset. They are a very well known group and everyone has recognised
    them to be dinosaurs. To be truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of
    every conference I went to for the rest of my career."
    Huxley's triumph

    Mr Baron's new family tree has similarities to ideas developed by the >biologist Thomas Henry Huxley in 1870. He believed, correctly as it turns >out, that birds descended from meat-eating dinosaurs and he included them >then with the bird-hipped dinosaurs in a group he named Ornithoscelida, or >bird-limbed.

    At the time Huxley's ideas were roundly dismissed and eclipsed by
    Seeley's.

    As an acknowledgement of Huxley's contribution, the team has revived the
    name of Ornithoscelida for his new combined group.

    As well as being a remarkable piece of research in itself, the work is a >vignette of the scientific process itself - how challenging old, >well-established ideas with a fresh eye is always worthwhile and can often >bring new insights.

    "We've proved Huxley right," said Mr Baron. "We didn't pay any attention
    to any of the dogma of the past 130 years. We tried to incorporate no
    prior assumption and so we have pulled apart the tree and reassembled it
    and have come up with solutions to questions that have been troubling >scientists for a very long time."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39305750

    _______________________________________________
    skeptic mailing list
    skeptic@linuxmafia.com
    http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/skeptic

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