• Trails of Starlink satellites spoil observations of a distant star

    From StarDust@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 14 11:26:37 2022
    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released a new
    report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted satellite
    trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 14 15:30:12 2022
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released a new
    report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted satellite
    trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova

    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Wed Sep 14 15:21:52 2022
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:30:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT), >https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released a
    new report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted
    satellite trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova
    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    How about this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 07:38:09 2022
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:30:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT),
    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released a
    new report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted
    satellite trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova
    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    How about this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs

    What about it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Thu Sep 15 07:58:46 2022
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    Space telescopes being incredibly expensive, observing time is strictly
    limited to imaging that _requires_ a space telescope.

    Large survey projects, the kind that are impacted by satellites, don't
    qualify.

    Satellite constellatiions can be removed; only the Earth's atmosphere can't
    be - so "requires a space telescope" means that it's the Earth's atmosphere that is the problem.

    Since we have fiber optic underwater cables, microwave towers, and cellular telephone systems, the primary benefit of satellite constellations is basically to provide a very limited amount of communications bandwidth (with high latency) to remote areas which lack communications infrastructure.

    Well, isn't that important? Isn't lifting the world's billions out of poverty a good
    thing?

    Oh, of course. And doing it on the cheap is important, because if they had money, they wouldn't be poor.

    However, except for mountain climbers and backcountry explorers, who benefit from systems like (the now defunct?) Iridium, a model where ordinary people have
    ordinary cell phones, and there's one satellite dish serving a whole village would
    work as well with far fewer satellites, I suspect. Systems like Starlink aren't driven by the needs of the Third World, they're driven by the applications that can
    be monetized.

    I mean, think of the propaganda for GMOs that talks about how the technology could - but hardly ever is - used to feed the world's poor, rather than to sell herbicides. So I'd expect a liberal to be suspicious of this sort of thing.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to jsavard@ecn.ab.ca on Thu Sep 15 09:37:10 2022
    On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
    <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    Space telescopes being incredibly expensive, observing time is strictly >limited to imaging that _requires_ a space telescope.

    In fact, space telescopes and large survey telescopes have similar
    price tags.

    Large survey projects, the kind that are impacted by satellites, don't >qualify.

    Why not? And the reality is, there are technical solutions to the
    impact on ground-based surveys that are not much discussed here.

    Satellite constellatiions can be removed; only the Earth's atmosphere can't >be - so "requires a space telescope" means that it's the Earth's atmosphere >that is the problem.

    Satellite constellations cannot, reasonably, be removed. They provide
    too great of benefits, at very little social cost.

    Since we have fiber optic underwater cables, microwave towers, and cellular >telephone systems, the primary benefit of satellite constellations is basically
    to provide a very limited amount of communications bandwidth (with high >latency) to remote areas which lack communications infrastructure.

    More than half the world.

    Well, isn't that important? Isn't lifting the world's billions out of poverty a good
    thing?

    Oh, of course. And doing it on the cheap is important, because if they had >money, they wouldn't be poor.

    However, except for mountain climbers and backcountry explorers, who benefit >from systems like (the now defunct?) Iridium, a model where ordinary people have
    ordinary cell phones, and there's one satellite dish serving a whole village would
    work as well with far fewer satellites, I suspect. Systems like Starlink aren't
    driven by the needs of the Third World, they're driven by the applications that can
    be monetized.

    Satellite communications will be increasingly vital in the third
    world.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Thu Sep 15 20:02:33 2022
    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:38:12 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT),
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:30:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT),
    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released
    a new report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted
    satellite trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova
    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    How about this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs
    What about it?

    She's saying, 5G can interfere with weather observation frequencies!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 22:05:51 2022
    On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 20:02:33 -0700 (PDT), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:38:12 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT),
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:30:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT),
    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released
    a new report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted
    satellite trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova
    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    How about this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs
    What about it?

    She's saying, 5G can interfere with weather observation frequencies!

    Maybe. I don't see the relevance to this discussion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Fri Sep 16 01:28:07 2022
    On Wednesday, 14 September 2022 at 17:30:17 UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT), StarDust <cso...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xwLoUd3ZzpCTSxibZVLXzE-970-80.jpg

    Friday, September 9, 2022: Trails of SpaceX's Starlink satellites spoil this image of the star Albireo some 434 light-years from Earth as astronomers caution the growing number of low-Earth-orbit satellites will make observations more difficult.

    The image, captured by astronomer Rafael Schmall, was released by the European Southern Observatory on Twitter(opens in new tab) on Friday, Sept. 9. The observatory, which operates some of the largest telescopes in the world, has recently released a
    new report(opens in new tab), which looks at the impact of mega-constellations such as Starlink on astronomical research.

    ESO says wide-field surveys (such as ESO's Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy, VISTA, in Chile) will experience the worst effects. Up to 50% of twilight observations made by these survey telescopes can be impacted by unwanted
    satellite trails, ESO said. – Tereza Pultarova
    Nonsense. The image was constructed to emphasize a problem that
    largely doesn't exist. Particularly for science images.

    In any case, low Earth orbit is going to increasingly fill with
    satellites, because they provide too many benefits. Far more than
    ground based astronomy does. While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    https://www.vecteezy.com/vector-art/111426-free-red-brick-wall-vector

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Fri Sep 16 06:40:19 2022
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    My inclination is to reply as follows: get back to me when you hear about how I can buy my very own OAO-3 equivalent for the price of a 32-inch Dob.

    That, of course, is not realistic. But perhaps it points to a way in which the impacts
    of these satellite constellations could be mitigated, although at a significant cost.

    Suppose each of the satellites used for this kind of communications service also had
    a modest space telescope, in the 80 cm range, in it. Unlike the OAO-3, which was
    ultraviolet-only, I would hope to see ultraviolet, visual, and near-infrared imaging sensors
    in addition to a spectroscope on them. Such an expansion of space telescope capability
    would help to make up for the impact of the satellites.

    Painting the satellites black, while reducing reflections, has the issue of introducing
    thermal issues, which are bad enough in the insulating vacuum of space. Perhaps the
    satellites should be covered with retroreflectors instead, since sending the light back
    to the Sun would not be a problem. Of course, by day, at least, the Earth is also a
    bright object.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to jsavard@ecn.ab.ca on Fri Sep 16 08:48:26 2022
    On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 06:40:19 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
    <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:17 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> While most astronomy won't be impacted,
    what is simply needs to move into space.

    My inclination is to reply as follows: get back to me when you hear about how I
    can buy my very own OAO-3 equivalent for the price of a 32-inch Dob.

    Amateur astronomy, both visual and imaging, is unimpacted in any
    meaningful way by these satellites.

    Painting the satellites black, while reducing reflections, has the issue of introducing
    thermal issues, which are bad enough in the insulating vacuum of space. Perhaps the
    satellites should be covered with retroreflectors instead, since sending the light back
    to the Sun would not be a problem. Of course, by day, at least, the Earth is also a
    bright object.

    Designs have already changed to reduce the brightness of the
    satellites. But the most likely technical adjustements will be on the
    ground. The obvious one is shuttering the sensor when a satellite is
    passing through.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jo Reggelt Hate Club@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 22 05:46:42 2022
    Starlink ludicrous "controversy" among the fucking prick cocksucker
    shithead® pretty picture astro photography horseshit®, "astronomers"

    Despite the promise of pretty picture astro photography horseshit®, SpaceX
    has taken undo "criticism" within the fucking prick cocksucker shithead® astronomical "community" for its Starlink satellites, due to their vast brightness and ridiculous potential to disrupt them fucking prick cocksucker shitheads® jerking off
    uncontrollably over that pretty picture horseshit® "observations" of the
    night sky.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)