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  • Fishes that has no hemoglobin?

    From StarDust@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 8 07:53:15 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to StarDust on Tue Feb 8 10:30:38 2022
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to RichA on Tue Feb 8 10:46:32 2022
    On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 10:30:41 AM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!
    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.

    Sea water freeze at 28 C, so can't be colder than that?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to RichA on Tue Feb 8 10:50:31 2022
    On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 10:30:41 AM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!
    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.

    Sea water freeze at 28 F, so can't be colder than that?
    Fish are cold blooded, lot of sea water fish survive at freezing point with hemoglobin in the blood?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 8 12:48:20 2022
    On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 10:30:38 -0800 (PST), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.

    Only if you're talking about biology based on water as the primary
    solvent. Temperature isn't important; having a liquid environment is.
    The most commonly studied alternatives to water are ammonia and
    methane.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 11 16:27:58 2022
    On 08/02/2022 18:30, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.

    Their life would be *incredibly* slow but not necessarily impossible.
    That is why we use LN2 to preserve stuff on normal timescales.

    But on geological timescales it might still be possible for enough
    chemical reactions to occur to be interesting. Jupiter's belts have all
    sorts of interesting and colourful chemistry in them.

    A mixture of liquid ammonia and/or methane might be a more benign
    environment for life to evolve though.

    As a solvent water is hard to beat because water ice floats on top. Most
    other liquids the frozen material sinks to the bottom and freezes solid.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Fri Feb 11 10:18:37 2022
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 08/02/2022 18:30, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Their life would be *incredibly* slow but not necessarily impossible.
    That is why we use LN2 to preserve stuff on normal timescales.

    But on geological timescales it might still be possible for enough
    chemical reactions to occur to be interesting. Jupiter's belts have all
    sorts of interesting and colourful chemistry in them.

    A mixture of liquid ammonia and/or methane might be a more benign
    environment for life to evolve though.

    As a solvent water is hard to beat because water ice floats on top. Most other liquids the frozen material sinks to the bottom and freezes solid.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    But we have no proof methane or ammonia based life can exist?
    Not even reproduced in a lab?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 11:52:00 2022
    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:18:37 -0800 (PST), StarDust <csoka01@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 08/02/2022 18:30, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Their life would be *incredibly* slow but not necessarily impossible.
    That is why we use LN2 to preserve stuff on normal timescales.

    But on geological timescales it might still be possible for enough
    chemical reactions to occur to be interesting. Jupiter's belts have all
    sorts of interesting and colourful chemistry in them.

    A mixture of liquid ammonia and/or methane might be a more benign
    environment for life to evolve though.

    As a solvent water is hard to beat because water ice floats on top. Most
    other liquids the frozen material sinks to the bottom and freezes solid.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    But we have no proof methane or ammonia based life can exist?
    Not even reproduced in a lab?

    Proof is largely not a thing in science. What's important here is that
    we have evidence from theory that the sort of reactions that appear
    critical to life can occur with other solvents than water. We have no
    disproof.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to StarDust on Sat Feb 12 09:40:37 2022
    On 11/02/2022 18:18, StarDust wrote:
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 08/02/2022 18:30, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Their life would be *incredibly* slow but not necessarily impossible.
    That is why we use LN2 to preserve stuff on normal timescales.

    But on geological timescales it might still be possible for enough
    chemical reactions to occur to be interesting. Jupiter's belts have all
    sorts of interesting and colourful chemistry in them.

    A mixture of liquid ammonia and/or methane might be a more benign
    environment for life to evolve though.

    As a solvent water is hard to beat because water ice floats on top. Most
    other liquids the frozen material sinks to the bottom and freezes solid.

    But we have no proof methane or ammonia based life can exist?

    You never have proof in science. The best you can hope for is an example
    of the phenomena or a reproducible experimental refutation of the
    predictions of a widely held theory. It happens from time to time.

    eg. Hypothesis: All swans are white.

    Seeing one Australian black swan will refute that hypothesis.

    Nor will we have any evidence of such life until we chance upon an
    example of it. Something that can live in or on methane/ammonia clouds
    on Jupiter or for that matter sulphuric acid clouds on Venus is not
    beyond the realms of possibility. Life on Earth includes extremophiles
    on volcanic vents and insanely slow growing things embedded deep inside
    some rocks. Endoliths might survive even if nothing else can at least
    for some time after formation whilst a planet has a molten core.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-21682-6

    The people looking for life on Mars use deep salt mines on Earth for
    samples of things that might live in extreme saline environments.

    Not even reproduced in a lab?

    It may yet happen. We have only just about figured out how to design
    life forms ab initio and they still need to steal a working cel to
    bootstrap the code into an organism. Curiously they did switches that
    should have been neutral but the organism wasn't as fit as its wild
    form. It is still very much it and miss but they are getting better.

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf3639

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Chris L Peterson on Sat Feb 12 04:08:18 2022
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 14:48:23 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 10:30:38 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Only if you're talking about biology based on water as the primary
    solvent. Temperature isn't important; having a liquid environment is.
    The most commonly studied alternatives to water are ammonia and
    methane.

    There is no other life but water-based.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to RichA on Sat Feb 12 13:56:03 2022
    On 12/02/2022 12:08, RichA wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 14:48:23 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 10:30:38 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Only if you're talking about biology based on water as the primary
    solvent. Temperature isn't important; having a liquid environment is.
    The most commonly studied alternatives to water are ammonia and
    methane.

    There is no other life but water-based.

    That we know about yet. I honestly think that you may be right because
    water has some crucial properties that are very rare. Notably that water expands when it freezes into ice and is a Goldilocks solvent.

    But ammonia could be almost as good in the right temperature range and
    there are lots of interesting complex chemicals floating around on the
    gas giants. Around -33C isn't so cold that reactions would cease
    although there is a narrower band of temperatures where it is a liquid.
    When you have geological timescales available to play with the slowness
    of the reactions doesn't matter so much.

    It is hard to see how life could not depend on carbon chemistry right
    now but perhaps again we will know it when we find it.

    Historically there was a very strong belief that organic (from life) and inorganic chemistry were quite distinct fields of study until Wohler
    managed to synthesise the organic chemical urea (found in urine) from
    ammonium cyanate (made originally from silver cyanate and ammonium
    chloride - both inorganic chemicals).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wöhler

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#History

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris L Peterson@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 08:35:42 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 04:08:18 -0800 (PST), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 14:48:23 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
    On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 10:30:38 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 February 2022 at 10:53:17 UTC-5, StarDust wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKjqaoZGB-4

    maybe there is life on other planets but they don't follow the same laws of biology as we do on Earth. Maybe in some distant cold planet there is life that needs Liquid Nitrogen to survive and not water.

    Note: Don't tell the Chines or nothing left of them soon!

    Being that cold would probably mean biological functions would pretty much be impossible.
    Only if you're talking about biology based on water as the primary
    solvent. Temperature isn't important; having a liquid environment is.
    The most commonly studied alternatives to water are ammonia and
    methane.

    There is no other life but water-based.

    On Earth. Elsewhere? We don't know. All we know is that nothing we
    currently know rules out life based on other chemistries.

    There are a lot of good arguments supporting the high value of
    water/carbon based chemistries for life. They make a good case for
    most life using processes that depend on them. But they certainly
    don't exclude other possibilities.

    Astrobiology is a hot area of research.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kelleher.gerald@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 13 14:03:07 2022
    Contemporary genetics would tell 21st century people that black complexion people are not closer to gorillas than white complexion people as Darwin and his contemporaries thought, although this is the basis of natural selection as a colonial aggression
    excuse. Humanity and the human body along with its processes remains indivisible, neither civilised nor savage, neither superior nor inferior and specifically neither favoured nor less favoured-

    'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life' Charles Darwin, 1859

    "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it
    will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla. " -- Charles Darwin (1871) The Descent of Man


    It is what students do not learn -that the physical process that make us humans are common to all cultures with no culture nearer a gorilla or a baboon than other cultures, while Darwin and his colleagues insisted on these awful distinctions.

    Courage, my dear people, courage to undo a lot of damage inherited from dangerous and misguided Victorian academics who railroaded cultural prejudice into 'races' and therefore racism.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Quadibloc@21:1/5 to kellehe...@gmail.com on Mon Feb 14 20:50:18 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:03:09 PM UTC-7, kellehe...@gmail.com wrote:
    Contemporary genetics would tell 21st century people that black complexion people
    are not closer to gorillas than white complexion people as Darwin and his contemporaries thought,

    I don't know about Darwin, but certainly contemporary genetics will tell us that the theory of Carleton S. Coon qualifies as preposterous.

    John Savard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kelleher.gerald@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 15 00:13:08 2022
    In honour of the 6 million who died in the crematoria of WWII, the Victorian natural selection doctrine is shown to be the driving force behind that section of German society who were convinced there are such a thing as inferior/superior, civilised/
    savage or favoured/less favoured 'races' dividing humanity for colonial invasion and extermination purposes.

    “I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilization than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how
    ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated
    by the higher civilized races throughout the world.” ― Charles Darwin

    The final solution of the Jews at the Wannsee Conference shares the same statement as natural selection insofar as the Victorian cultural prejudice doctrine was formatted as an excuse for invasion and extermination as a biological principle-

    "...in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labour in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action
    doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes. The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if
    released, act as the seed of a new Jewish revival. " Wannsee Conference

    The 'treated accordingly' became Special Treatment, a term which couches the entrance into the gas chambers.

    Humanity is made up of diverse cultures with no culture nearer to gorillas and baboons genetically than others as the human processes for life are the same whatever the complexion or physical features of that human. The Victorians thought that skin
    complexion and skull shape offered an excuse to invade and exterminate so they could become the dominant 'race' on the planet

    " I contend that we [Anglo-Saxon] are the first race in the world, and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. .." Cecil Rhodes

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Races_and_skulls.png

    Time to end the notion of 'races' and therefore racism as a biological fiction.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kelleher.gerald@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 15 01:51:26 2022
    It isn't that nobody will reply to the horror of the Holocaust or even that they will continue to respond to other topics by those who are lost souls, it is that the Holocaust itself was an outrigger of natural selection with its notion of 'races and
    racism.

    https://www.azquotes.com/author/12265-Cecil_Rhodes

    Even the present English would be embarrassed by this bravado, yet the idea of favoured/less favoured 'races' was a dominat academic doctrine at that time-

    'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of FAVOURED RACES in the Struggle for Life' Charles Darwin 1859

    It is easy enough to re-write that declaration which includes the Irish;

    " Given a land originally peopled by a thousand Saxons and a thousand Celts- and in a dozen generations five-sixths of the population would be Celts, but five-sixths of the property, of the power, of the intellect, would belong to the one-sixth of Saxons
    that remained. In the eternal 'struggle for existence,' it would be the inferior and LESS FAVOURED RACE that had prevailed- and prevailed by virtue not of its good qualities but of its faults and narrower brain. " Charles Darwin, Descent of Man, 1871

    I know there are reasonable readers out there and now is not the time to be silent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From StarDust@21:1/5 to kellehe...@gmail.com on Tue Feb 15 01:30:31 2022
    On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:10 AM UTC-8, kellehe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In honour of the 6 million who died in the crematoria of WWII, the Victorian natural selection doctrine is shown to be the driving force behind that section of German society who were convinced there are such a thing as inferior/superior, civilised/
    savage or favoured/less favoured 'races' dividing humanity for colonial invasion and extermination purposes.

    “I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilization than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how
    ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated
    by the higher civilized races throughout the world.” ― Charles Darwin

    The final solution of the Jews at the Wannsee Conference shares the same statement as natural selection insofar as the Victorian cultural prejudice doctrine was formatted as an excuse for invasion and extermination as a biological principle-

    "...in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labour in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action
    doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes. The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if
    released, act as the seed of a new Jewish revival. " Wannsee Conference

    The 'treated accordingly' became Special Treatment, a term which couches the entrance into the gas chambers.

    Humanity is made up of diverse cultures with no culture nearer to gorillas and baboons genetically than others as the human processes for life are the same whatever the complexion or physical features of that human. The Victorians thought that skin
    complexion and skull shape offered an excuse to invade and exterminate so they could become the dominant 'race' on the planet

    " I contend that we [Anglo-Saxon] are the first race in the world, and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. .." Cecil Rhodes

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Races_and_skulls.png

    Time to end the notion of 'races' and therefore racism as a biological fiction.

    Cecil Rhodes was Jewish, famous of monkeying around with diamond mines in Africa, saving falling diamond prices!
    Rhodesia was named after him! https://www.aish.com/jw/s/Jews-and-Zimbabwe-7-Little-Known-Facts.html

    Never been proven, 6 million Jews died in WW2. LOL!
    6 million is a Talmudic number, Jews been waiting 6 million to die for centuries so they can return to Palestine and create Israel.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kelleher.gerald@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 16 11:58:57 2022
    Thankfully, researchers are coming to their senses and recognising that natural selection is a cultural prejudice doctrine based on superficial distinctions of skin complexion, skull shape and so on.

    The only colour that matters is the colour red which flows through every human and every human process-

    https://www2.palomar.edu/anthro/vary/vary_3.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)