On 9.11.2021. 4:03, Mario Petrinovic wrote:

        They say that Luzon is the oldest.
        I mean, we have Homo antecessor which lived exclusively on Iberian peninsula (as far as I know), and may have moved along Ebro river: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor#/media/File:SpanienEbro.jpg
        I mean, if he came on Iberian peninsula by the way of land (over Europe), then we would find him elsewhere. I don't think that the Strait of Gibraltar was ever crossable during that time (otherwise Mediterranean would dry out). So, he should sail over Strait of
Gibraltar, and, obviously, he probably used rivers for transportation.

Oh yes, this goes all the way to 1.2 mya.

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They say that Luzon is the oldest.
I mean, we have Homo antecessor which lived exclusively on Iberian
peninsula (as far as I know), and may have moved along Ebro river: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor#/media/File:SpanienEbro.jpg
I mean, if he came on Iberian peninsula by the way of land (over
Europe), then we would find him elsewhere. I don't think that the Strait
of Gibraltar was ever crossable during that time (otherwise
Mediterranean would dry out). So, he should sail over Strait of
Gibraltar, and, obviously, he probably used rivers for transportation.

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Mario Petrinovic wrote:

They say that Luzon is the oldest.
I mean, we have Homo antecessor which lived exclusively on Iberian
peninsula (as far as I know), and may have moved along Ebro river: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor#/media/File:SpanienEbro.jpg
I mean, if he came on Iberian peninsula by the way of land (over
Europe), then we would find him elsewhere. I don't think that the Strait
of Gibraltar was ever crossable during that time (otherwise
Mediterranean would dry out). So, he should sail over Strait of
Gibraltar, and, obviously, he probably used rivers for transportation.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181929

obviously sea level was a great deal lower during glacial maximum, but what people forget is that there were many glacial maximums, plural, and the
last one was hardly the only.

No doubt a crossing would have been easier, and the earliest evidence for
such crossings date to, what? Like 100,000 years ago?

Together with other evidence, and findings reported by researchers, I do
not doubt that people crossed between northwest Africa and southwest
Europe.

And it is entirely possible that they came through Europe to Africa, but
it's certainly not necessary.





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On 9.11.2021. 7:46, I Envy JTEM wrote:

Mario Petrinovic wrote:

They say that Luzon is the oldest.
I mean, we have Homo antecessor which lived exclusively on Iberian
peninsula (as far as I know), and may have moved along Ebro river:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor#/media/File:SpanienEbro.jpg
I mean, if he came on Iberian peninsula by the way of land (over
Europe), then we would find him elsewhere. I don't think that the Strait
of Gibraltar was ever crossable during that time (otherwise
Mediterranean would dry out). So, he should sail over Strait of
Gibraltar, and, obviously, he probably used rivers for transportation.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181929

obviously sea level was a great deal lower during glacial maximum, but what people forget is that there were many glacial maximums, plural, and the
last one was hardly the only.

No doubt a crossing would have been easier, and the earliest evidence for such crossings date to, what? Like 100,000 years ago?

Together with other evidence, and findings reported by researchers, I do
not doubt that people crossed between northwest Africa and southwest
Europe.

And it is entirely possible that they came through Europe to Africa, but
it's certainly not necessary.

First, I doubt that lower level shortened trip significantly in the
Strait of Gibraltar.
Secondly, I see much more sense to cross it (in the northern direction) when times are warm, than when it is cold.
Thanks anyway, :) .

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Mario Petrinovic wrote:

First, I doubt that lower level shortened trip significantly in the
Strait of Gibraltar.

At one point the strait did not exist, they were falls.

Could not have been the case, even briefly, in the last 300,000
years or so?

Remember: A thousand years is an extremely long time in the
history of humans, but in geologic time scales it's barely the
blink of an eye.

It's also important that the Mediterranean Sea was much smaller,
islands were much larger and there's no way to rule out crossings
over what is today much wider gaps.

Secondly, I see much more sense to cross it (in the northern
direction) when times are warm, than when it is cold.
Thanks anyway, :) .

We do know for a fact that migrations went south, that there were
"back migrations" even from Asia proper.

What's important here is not defending a position but being open to
all possibilities.

It's human to favor a particular answer, but it's not science.





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