• OUR PRIMATE ROOTS

    From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 6 07:20:07 2021
    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series “Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp

    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ... van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for
    many scientists, most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed. Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus. “Man is the opposite of a savanna inhabitant. Humans lack sun-reflecting fur, but have thermo-
    insulative subcutaneous fat layers, which are never seen in savanna mammals. We have a water- & sodium-wasting cooling system of abundant sweat glands, unfit for a dry environment. Our maximal urine concentration is too low for a savanna-dwelling mammal.
    We need more water than other primates, and have to drink more often than savanna inhabitants, yet we cannot drink large quantities at a time” (Nature 325: 305-6). "This reasoning does not imply to say that human ancestors never lived on savannas,
    only that if they did, it was at the wetlands, lakes & rivers there. Apparently, we evolved running – only lately, and only about half as fast as equids, bovids, felids or canids, even slower than arboreal primates – in spite of our broad build,
    short toes & plantigrade feet, profuse sweating & large subcutaneous fat tissues" (Hum.Evol.28:261). Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    :-)

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  • From Pandora@21:1/5 to littoral.homo@gmail.com on Sat Nov 6 17:28:03 2021
    On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 07:20:07 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com" <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series >Foundations of Human Biology ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp

    At least have the courtesy to provide a link to the entire review, not
    just the cherries with your name on it: http://rint.rechten.rug.nl/rth/dennen/vanschaik.htm

    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...

    Why not? What else is there prior to agriculture?
    And it doesn't imply they were identical in every aspect.

    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.

    In what field exactly is Verhaegen a scientist?

    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.

    That depends. Tall, slender Nilotic people are well-adapted to such environments.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples#Physiology

    Their tropical physique compares well with that of the hypertropical
    Turkana Boy, whose brachial and crural index indicate a mean annual
    temperature of around 30 degrees Celsius.

    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 6 11:34:47 2021
    Op zaterdag 6 november 2021 om 17:28:06 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:

    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series >“Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp
    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...
    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.
    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.
    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.

    :-D
    Pathetic liar: you have 0.
    Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes. :-DDD

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Sun Nov 7 19:56:53 2021
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op zaterdag 6 november 2021 om 17:28:06 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:

    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series >>> “Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp
    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...
    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.
    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.
    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.

    :-D
    Pathetic liar: you have 0.
    Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors

    had snorkel noses...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 8 15:19:48 2021
    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series
    “Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp
    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...
    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.
    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.
    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.

    :-D Pathetic liar: you have 0.

    Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes.

    had snorkel noses...

    OI, BIG NOSE !
    New Scientist 2782 p 69 Lastword 16 October 2010

    Why do humans evolve external noses that don’t seem to serve any useful purpose – our smelling sensors are inside the head. Our nose is vulnerable to damage, and the majority of primates and other mammals manage with relatively flat faces.
    Traditional explanations are that the nose protects against dry air, hot air, cold air, dusty air, whatever air, but most savannah mammals have no external noses, and polar animals such as arctic foxes or hares tend to evolve shorter extremities
    including flatter noses (Allen’s Rule), not larger as the Neanderthal protruding nose.

    The answer isn’t so difficult if we simply consider humans like other mammals.

    An external nose is seen in elephant seals, hooded seals, tapirs, elephants, swine and, among primates, in the mangrove-dwelling proboscis monkeys. Various, often mutually compatible functions, have been proposed, such as sexual display (in male hooded
    and elephant seals or proboscis monkeys), manipulation of food (in elephants, tapirs and swine), a snorkel (elephants, proboscis monkeys) and as a nose-closing aid during diving (in most of these animals). These mammals spend a lot of time at the margins
    of land and water. Possible functions of an external nose in creatures evolving into aquatic ones are obvious and match those listed above in many cases. They can initially act as a nose closure, a snorkel, to keep water out, to dig in wet soil for food,
    and so on. Afterwards, these external noses can also become co-opted for other functions, such as sexual display (visual as well as auditory) in hooded and elephant seals and proboscis monkeys.

    But what does this have to do with human evolution?

    The earliest known Homo fossils outside Africa – such as those at Mojokerto in Java and Dmanisi in Georgia – are about 1.8 million years old. The easiest way for them to have spread to other continents, and to islands such as Java, is along the
    coasts, and from there inland along rivers. During the glacial periods of the Pleistocene – the ice age cycles that ran from about 1.8 million to 12,000 years ago – most coasts were about 100 metres below the present-day sea level, so we don’t know
    whether or when Homo populations lived there. But coasts and riversides are full of shellfish and other foods that are easily collected and digested by smart, handy and tool-using “apes”, and are rich in potential brain-boosting nutrients such as
    docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

    If Pleistocene Homo spread along the coasts, beachcombing, wading and diving for seafoods as Polynesian islanders still do, this could explain why Homo erectus evolved larger brains (aided by DHA) and larger noses (because of their part-time diving).
    This littoral intermezzo could help to explain not only why we like to have our holidays at tropical beaches, eating shrimps and coconuts, but also why we became fat and furless bipeds with long legs, flat feet, large brains and big noses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Sun Nov 14 23:38:25 2021
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series >>>>> “Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp
    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...
    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.
    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.
    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...

    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.

    :-D Pathetic liar: you have 0.

    Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes.

    had snorkel noses...

    OI! Big Penis!



    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/2/eaaq0250.full
    Nasalization by Nasalis larvatus: Larger noses audiovisually advertise conspecifics in proboscis monkeys
    Science Advances 21 Feb 2018:

    Abstract
    Male proboscis monkeys have uniquely enlarged noses that are prominent adornments, which may have evolved through their sexually competitive
    harem group social system. Nevertheless, the ecological roles of the
    signals encoded by enlarged noses remain unclear. We found significant correlations among nose, body, and testis sizes and a clear link between
    nose size and number of harem females. Therefore, there is evidence
    supporting both male-male competition and female choice as causal factors
    in the evolution of enlarged male noses. We also observed that nasal enlargement systematically modifies the resonance properties of male vocalizations, which probably encode male quality. Our results indicate
    that the audiovisual contributions of enlarged male noses serve as advertisements to females in their mate selection. This is the first
    primate research to evaluate the evolutionary processes involved in
    linking morphology, acoustics, and socioecology with unique masculine characteristics.


    https://www.menshealth.com/uk/sex/a36339905/bigger-penis-large-noses/
    Men With Larger Noses Have Bigger Penises, According to New Study
    Your beak may be giving away more than you think

    BY MEN'S HEALTH 05/05/2021
    Published in the medical journal Basic and Clinical Andrology, the
    researchers of
    the study found that men with larger noses had a ‘stretched penile length’ of at
    least 5.3 inches, while men with smaller noses had a penis length of 4.1
    inches
    erect.

    The team of researchers drew this conclusion by looking at the dead corpses of 126 men within three days of death and measured different parts of their body. After taking into account varying factors such height, weight and measurements of the penis (there were no links between feet size and appendage size, before you ask), the authors of the study then worked out the "stretched penile length"
    (SPL) of each cadaver. This was measured by, and sorry to be so graphic,
    by pulling
    the penis up as far as it would go. Hopefully they used gloves.


    https://bacandrology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12610-021-00121-z
    Nose size indicates maximum penile length

    Abstract
    Background
    In a previous report, we investigated whether the size of male genitalia similarly
    exposed to serum testosterone during aging could change with age and found
    that penile length almost stopped increasing during adolescence and decreased in older males. In this report, to determine what factors other than age
    are related
    to penile length, we performed a multivariate analysis of the
    relationships between stretched penile length (SPL) and other measurements
    of genital organs, nose size,
    height and body weight in 126 adults in their 30s–50s.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Pandora on Mon Nov 15 08:24:07 2021
    On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 12:28:06 PM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 07:20:07 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com" <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Johan van der Dennen (Univ.Groningen NL) book review:
    "The Primate Origins of Human Nature" Carel van Schaik 2016, vol.3 series >“Foundations of Human Biology” ed.Matt Cartmill & Kaye Brown. Wiley-Blackwell NJ, 560 pp
    At least have the courtesy to provide a link to the entire review, not
    just the cherries with your name on it: http://rint.rechten.rug.nl/rth/dennen/vanschaik.htm
    ... Far from being models of analogues of ancestral peoples, contemporary hunter-gathers
    cannot possibly be taken as prototypical stand-ins for the human Palaeolithic way of life ...
    Why not? What else is there prior to agriculture?
    And it doesn't imply they were identical in every aspect.
    van Schaik endorses a strong version of the savanna scenario, which for many scientists,
    most unequivocally Marc Verhaegen, is among the worst hypotheses ever proposed.
    In what field exactly is Verhaegen a scientist?
    Humans are physiological ill-adapted to dry open milieus.
    That depends. Tall, slender Nilotic people are well-adapted to such environments.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples#Physiology

    Their tropical physique compares well with that of the hypertropical
    Turkana Boy, whose brachial and crural index indicate a mean annual temperature of around 30 degrees Celsius.
    Critics of the savanna evolutionary scenario are commonly maligned, but that does not invalidate or refute their arguments ...
    No, a host of paleontological and paleoecological data does.
    -
    Sorry, but I strictly reject both the endurance chasing model for archaic Homo and the descriptive "tropical physique". Neither are supported any more than "aquatic sleep" is, imo.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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