• Re: early Americans followed the sea

    From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Marc Verhaegen on Fri Oct 6 23:32:32 2023
    Marc Verhaegen wrote:

    The BBC is reporting the following story:
    People left traces of their presence in the sediments of a shoreline
    Human settlers made it to the Americas 30,000 years earlier than previously thought, according to new evidence.
    British scientists came to this controversial conclusion by dating human footprints preserved by volcanic ash in an abandoned quarry in Mexico.
    They say the first Americans may have arrived by sea, rather than by foot. ...
    Ms Gonzalez says the tracks show that the first colonies may have arrived on water.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4650307.stm

    The savanna freaks just discovered pre Clovis people in the Americas.

    It only took them 18 years AFTER you shared this cite!




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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to JTEM is so reasonable on Sun Oct 8 21:06:14 2023
    JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
    Marc Verhaegen wrote:

    The BBC is reporting the following story:
    People left traces of their presence in the sediments of a shoreline
    Human settlers made it to the Americas 30,000 years earlier than previously >> thought, according to new evidence.
    British scientists came to this controversial conclusion by dating human
    footprints preserved by volcanic ash in an abandoned quarry in Mexico.
    They say the first Americans may have arrived by sea, rather than by foot. >> ...
    Ms Gonzalez says the tracks show that the first colonies may have arrived on >> water.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4650307.stm

    The savanna freaks just discovered pre Clovis people in the Americas.

    It only took them 18 years AFTER you shared this cite!

    The snorkel nose freaks are apparently unaware that pre Clovis
    sites first began to be discovered in the *1970s*.

    Like Monte Verde

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde

    "The site was discovered in late 1975..."


    Meadowcroft

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowcroft_Rockshelter

    "Native Americans left the site during the American
    Revolutionary War. It was not rediscovered until many
    years later, when, in 1955, Albert Miller found the
    first artifacts in a groundhog burrow. Miller delayed
    reporting his findings so as to not attract vandals,
    until he contacted James M. Adovasio, who led the
    first excavations of the site in 1973 until 1979 by
    the Cultural Resource Management Program of the
    University of Pittsburgh."

    Here's a nice listing of pre Clovis sites

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pre-Clovis_archaeological_sites_in_the_Americas

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  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Sun Oct 8 20:34:16 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    The snorkel nose freaks are apparently unaware that pre Clovis
    sites first began to be discovered in the *1970s*.

    The word you meant to use here was "Identified."

    There's also a difference between "Pre Clovis" and 38,000 years
    ago.



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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 10 10:42:21 2023
    Op dinsdag 5 juli 2005 om 13:59:33 UTC+2 schreef John Roth:
    "JAE" <j...@ucdavis.edu> wrote in message news:1120548410.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

    People left traces of their presence in the sediments of a shoreline
    Human settlers made it to the Americas 30,000 years earlier than
    previously thought, according to new evidence.
    British scientists came to this controversial conclusion by dating human >> footprints preserved by volcanic ash in an abandoned quarry in Mexico.
    They say the first Americans may have arrived by sea, rather than by
    foot. ...
    Ms Gonzalez says the tracks show that the first colonies may have arrived >> on water.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4650307.stm

    It's always a little disturbing when something like this gets reported
    in popular press before anything reviewed gets out. I've no way to
    really judge if there's anything remotely worthwhile in their study or
    not, though the various news stories indicate that the prints were
    dated by a mammoth tooth in a nearby deposit. Again, this sort of
    report doesn't really tell me if the dates are worth anything. It's
    curious though that if the 40kybp date is for real, people stayed more
    or less completely invisible in the archaeological record for thousands
    of years afterwards. Much skepticism is still warranted.

    The news report I've seen:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7627
    was quite specific on the kinds of dating used over the two year
    time period they did the study.
    A good deal of skepticism is indeed warrented - skepticism of
    people who jump to conclusions based on their preconceptions
    without checking to see whether there are other information sources availible.
    BTW Marc - the idea that they followed the coast is pure guesswork
    at this point. The fact is nobody has any idea of how they got there. Following the coast is a reasonably guess, but there is no support
    whatsoever that I've heard. John Roth

    Biology. We've always followed coasts + rivers. Humans need aquatic nutrients. At least 8 *independent* facts show Pleistocene H.erectus were semi-aquatic: • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
    • H.erectus s.s. typically?always fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17: "brackish marsh near the coast".
    • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
    • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
    • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
    • Brain size in erectus (2x apes/australopiths) is facilitated by aquatic food, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
    • Late-Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized islands far oversea (fossils Flores 100–50 ka, Luzon 67 ka) https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
    • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters.

    BTW, it's time the "old" anthropologists (African savanna believers) stop boycotting & refusing our MSs on Homo's waterside evolution.
    Human DNA (absence of African retroviral DNA) shows our Pliocene ancestors were not in Africa: IMO they were following S-Asian oasts --> Java Mojokerto etc.



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