On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:14:28 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

?? Can't you read??

I think the problem here is that you need to NOT read. No, don't read any post
authored by the troll.

They are here to obfuscate, the sure sign of a clinical narcissist.

I seek clarity.

If it is true that all animals, some only occasionally, go into water are not virtually all animals aquatic?

Why don't you skip all of that, because you really aren't making any sense. Just tell us in simple words what it is about aquaticism that would cause us to evolve our human characteristics?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Claudius Denk = troll.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 02:31:13 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com" <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

Claudius Denk = troll.

So are you.
Posting the same message over and over again without the intent to
discuss is also trolling.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Claudius Denk = troll.

Troll:

So are you.
Posting the same message over and over again without the intent to
discuss is also trolling.

:-DDD
My little little boy, please grow up!
You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:

Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia, this first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead in the branches above the swamp: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethyocean coastal forests (E vs W).
~15 Ma the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea: swamp forests).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (Francesca Mansfield thinks caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Australop.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (explaining the absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) -> Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "
Joordens Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.
https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

Are you indeed totally incapable of realising that traditional paleo-anthropology before "waterside hominoids" is as wrong as tradtional geology was before "plate tectonics"??

Grow up!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 6:07:14 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Claudius Denk = troll.

Troll:

So are you.
Posting the same message over and over again without the intent to
discuss is also trolling.

:-DDD
My little little boy, please grow up!
You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:

Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia, this first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead in the branches above the swamp: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethyocean coastal forests (E vs W).
~15 Ma the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea: swamp forests).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (Francesca Mansfield thinks caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Australop.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (explaining the absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) -> Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "

Joordens Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario. It's a collective of disparate assertions that fail to explicate an engine of human communal selection.

You appear ignorant. From a taxonomic or zoological perspective, you seem to have no understanding of why hominids/humans are categorically distinct.

Are you indeed totally incapable of realising that traditional paleo-anthropology before "waterside hominoids" is as wrong as tradtional geology was before "plate tectonics"??

Uh, what? I've always realized traditional PA is wrong. They too lack any kind of communal selection. They too present a lot of disparate just-so-story assertions.

I too realized the savanna tool-user hypothesis was blatant nonsense and that hominids--especially because of the deadly dry season--could only have resided in well watered garden habitat.

Unlike yourself, however, I realized that the predatory massacre implications of the deadly dry season was the engine of hominid communal selection.

James McGinn / Genius

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-7, James McGinn wrote:

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 6:07:14 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Claudius Denk = troll.

Troll:

So are you.
Posting the same message over and over again without the intent to discuss is also trolling.

:-DDD
My little little boy, please grow up!
You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:

Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia, this first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead in the branches above the swamp: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethyocean coastal forests (E vs W).
~15 Ma the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea: swamp forests).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (Francesca Mansfield thinks caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Australop.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (explaining the absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) -> Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "

Joordens Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario. It's a collective of disparate assertions that fail to explicate an engine of human communal selection.

You appear ignorant. From a taxonomic or zoological perspective, you seem to have no understanding of why hominids/humans are categorically distinct.

Are you indeed totally incapable of realising that traditional paleo-anthropology before "waterside hominoids" is as wrong as tradtional geology was before "plate tectonics"??

Uh, what? I've always realized traditional PA is wrong. They too lack any kind of communal selection. They too present a lot of disparate just-so-story assertions.

I too realized the savanna tool-user hypothesis was blatant nonsense and that hominids--especially because of the deadly dry season--could only have resided in well watered garden habitat.

Unlike yourself, however, I realized that the predatory massacre implications of the deadly dry season was the engine of hominid communal selection.

James McGinn / Genius

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro"

etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

:-DDD
It's an extremely detailed scenario.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:03:58 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

:-DDD
It's an extremely detailed scenario.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:03:58 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

:-DDD
It's an extremely detailed scenario.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op dinsdag 2 mei 2023 om 20:09:10 UTC+2 schreef James McGinn:

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

It's an extremely detailed scenario:

Plate Tectonics & Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India (Tethys Ocean) approached S-Asia ->islands & peninsulas, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: "aquarboreal"(google) Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys Ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA: large brain, pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro" etc.etc.:
mid- ->late-Pleist.: diving ->wading ->walking H.sapiens. https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
If somebody can give 1 little objection to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 3:41:09 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op dinsdag 2 mei 2023 om 20:09:10 UTC+2 schreef James McGinn:

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

It's an extremely detailed scenario:

Plate Tectonics & Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India (Tethys Ocean) approached S-Asia ->islands & peninsulas, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: "aquarboreal"(google) Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys Ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo)

Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA:

large brain, pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro" etc.etc.:
mid- ->late-Pleist.: diving ->wading ->walking H.sapiens. https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
If somebody can give 1 little objection to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-7, Claudius Denk wrote:

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:14:28 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

?? Can't you read??

I think the problem here is that you need to NOT read. No, don't read any post
authored by the troll.

They are here to obfuscate, the sure sign of a clinical narcissist.

I seek clarity.

If it is true that all animals, some only occasionally, go into water are not virtually all animals aquatic?

Why don't you skip all of that, because you really aren't making any sense. Just tell us in simple words what it is about aquaticism that would cause us to evolve our human characteristics?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

netloon:

... Just tell us in simple words what it is about aquaticism that would cause us to evolve our human characteristics?

8 *independent* facts show:
Pleistocene archaic Homo frequently dived for shellfish:

•Archaic Homo's tooth-wear was caused by "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
•H.erectus s.s. fossilized (always?) in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto amid barnacles & corals, Trinil amid edible Pseudodon & Elongaria, Sangiran-17 in "brackish marsh near the coast".
•Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus: Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
•Ear exostoses (bony outgrowths of the ear-canal in H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
•Pachyosteosclerosis is typically & exclusively seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
•Brain size in erectus (2x apes-australopiths) is facilitated by sea-food, e.g. DHA etc. in shellfish, cf Odontocetes & Pinnipedia.
•Pleistocene Homo even colonized overseas islands (Flores & later even Luzon) https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
•Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for shellfish-eaters like sea-otters etc.

Are the words simple enough??
:-D

Perhaps this is simpler: https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:21:36 AM UTC-7, Claudius Denk wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:03:58 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

You are miserably unable to give us 1 simple little argument why my scenario (my 2022 book) would be wrong:
Plate Tectonics -> Hominoid Splittings:
~30 Ma India in the Tethys Ocean approached S-Asia = island archipels, plenty of coastal forests (cf some parallels in Nasalis).
~25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W): both followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
My little boy, if you can give 1 little objeciton to this scenario, I'd very much like to hear... :-DDD

troll:

Uh, okay. Here's my objection. It's not a scenario.

:-DDD
It's an extremely detailed scenario.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Plate Tectonics caused Hominoid Splittings?

~25 Ma Arabafrica approaching Eurasia formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: cf some parallels in Nasalis:
Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma hylobatids followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts -> SE.Asia.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea):
pongids-sivapiths -> SE.Asia forced hylobatids higher into the trees -> brachiation.
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro" etc.
etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg David Attenborough "The Waterside Ape"

Any objections to this scenario?
I'd very much like to hear... :-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 7:11:31 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Plate Tectonics caused Hominoid Splittings?

~25 Ma Arabafrica approaching Eurasia formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: cf some parallels in Nasalis:
Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma hylobatids followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts -> SE.Asia.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea):
pongids-sivapiths -> SE.Asia forced hylobatids higher into the trees -> brachiation.
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro"

etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg David Attenborough "The Waterside Ape"

Any objections to this scenario?
I'd very much like to hear... :-)

It's not a scenario. It's mostly random assertions. Meaningless nonsense.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op vrijdag 29 september 2023 om 17:40:30 UTC+2 schreef James McGinn:

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 7:11:31 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Plate Tectonics caused Hominoid Splittings?

~25 Ma Arabafrica approaching Eurasia formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: cf some parallels in Nasalis:
Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma hylobatids followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts -> SE.Asia.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea):
pongids-sivapiths -> SE.Asia forced hylobatids higher into the trees -> brachiation.
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens Munro"

etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg David Attenborough "The Waterside Ape"

Any objections to this scenario?
I'd very much like to hear... :-)

Kudu runner was miserably unable to give us 1 little objection... :-DDD

It's not a scenario. It's mostly random assertions. Meaningless nonsense.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 11:33:28 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op vrijdag 29 september 2023 om 17:40:30 UTC+2 schreef James McGinn:

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 7:11:31 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Plate Tectonics caused Hominoid Splittings?

~25 Ma Arabafrica approaching Eurasia formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: cf some parallels in Nasalis:
Catarrhini reaching these islands waded upright + climbed arms overhead: aquarboreal Hominoidea.
~20 Ma hylobatids followed the N-Tethys ocean coasts -> SE.Asia.
~15 Ma the Mesopot.Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea):
pongids-sivapiths -> SE.Asia forced hylobatids higher into the trees -> brachiation.
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy etc.-> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma??): Homo & Pan split:
– Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
– Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java early-Pleist.H.erectus were shallow-divers for shellfish, rich in DHA = large brain: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, stone tools, shell engravings google "Joordens

Munro" etc.etc.: mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg David Attenborough "The Waterside Ape"

Any objections to this scenario?
I'd very much like to hear... :-)

Kudu runner was miserably unable to give us 1 little objection... :-DDD

It's not a scenario. It's mostly random assertions. Meaningless nonsense.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Plate Tectonics caused Hominoid Splittings?

Speciation in mammals = mostly allopatric?
islands, rivers, mountains, splitting or collapsing continents...
Atypical evolution is often seen on islands:
- Miocene Hominoidea?
- early-Pleistocene Homo?

~25 Ma Arabafrica approaching Eurasia formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini reaching these islands began wading upright + climbing arms overhead = bipedal early Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal".
~20 Ma hylobatids followed the N-Tethys ocean coastal forests -> SE.Asia.
~15 Ma the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids-sivapiths (E) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea):
pongids-sivapiths -> SE.Asia (forced hylobatids higher into the trees -> brachiation?).
~8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis Lucy, aethiopicus, boisei... -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.
~5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (caused by Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma? Francesca mansfield): Homo & Pan split:
–Pan went right: E.Afr.coasts ->S-Rift ->Transvaal ->Au.africanus, robustus, habilis... (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes & P.paniscus,
–Homo went left: S.Asian coasts (cf absence of African retroviral DNA in Homo) ->Java, later Peking, S-Eurasia, Africa etc.:

There's no doubt:
early-Pleist.H.erectus in Java were shallow-divers for shellfish:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear = caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s. typically fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto amid barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria edible shellfish, Sangiran-17 "brackish marsh near the coast".
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving Tetrapoda (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes/australopiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes dolphins, Pinnipedia.
• Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized islands far oversea: fossils Flores & Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters.

Mid-Pleist.H.neand. had less pachy-osteo-sclerosis (diving parttime?), and fossilised at coasts & rivers:
did they seasonally follow the Rhine-Neander, Meuse etc. inland? salmon trek??

Late-Pleist.H.sapiens diving -> wading -> walking (+ some slow running... :-D).

Google "Verhaegen Bonne English" https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg David Attenborough "The Waterside Ape"

The connection between Plate Tectonics & Hominoid Splittings is hypothetical, but firmly based on data.
And nobody found any objections to this scenario. :-)

In any case, the savanna fantasy is the most incredible nonsense thinkable: some morons reasoned: apes=Africa=forest=quadruped, "hominin"=biped = outside Afr.forest = savanna... :-DDD

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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James McGinn wrote:

[...]

I've got my eyes closed at the moment as I try to visualize
urinating on your face... yes... that's it... it gets in your
mouth, you snap it shut but all too late... Oops! Up your
nose!.. you turn your head and the stream enters your
ear... oh, gross... all down the front of your shirt...

Blessings.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/731796353021247489

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On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-7, Claudius Denk wrote:

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:14:28 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

?? Can't you read??

I think the problem here is that you need to NOT read. No, don't read any post
authored by the troll.

They are here to obfuscate, the sure sign of a clinical narcissist.

I seek clarity.

If it is true that all animals, some only occasionally, go into water are not virtually all animals aquatic?

Why don't you skip all of that, because you really aren't making any sense. Just tell us in simple words what it is about aquaticism that would cause us to evolve our human characteristics?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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kudu runner:

Why don't you skip all of that, because you really aren't making any sense. Just tell us in simple words what it is about aquaticism that would cause us to evolve our human characteristics?

Why do you need clothes & shoes? to swim? or to run after kudus? :-DDD

Only the greatest imbeciles deny that early-Pleist.H.erectus dived for shellfish:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s. = coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto barnacles + corals, Trinil Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17 "brackish marsh near the coast".
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes/australopiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia, Enhydra.
• Platycephaly in erectus/neand.: long, flat, dorsally-shifted brain-skull = hydrodynamic streamline, google GondwanaTalks Verhaegen English
• Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized islands far oversea, e.g. Flores, Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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