Hominoid evolution is not so difficult in general (even I can understand...).

Bipedal wading is seen in e.g. Nasalis monkey in mangrove forests, they also climb sometimes arms overhead.
India approached S-Asia c 30-20 Ma: island archipels, full of coastal forests: Catarrhini reaching these islands became wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead = aquarboreal Hominoidea.
India underneath Asia c 20 Ma split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W) in coastal forests along N-Tethys Ocean.
Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split pongids (E) & hominids (W): Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea swamp forests.
N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis->boisei, today G.gorilla & beringei.
6-5 Red Sea opens into Gulf (Francesca mansfiels casued by Zanclean mega-flood):
-- Pan right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Austr.africanus->robustus (// Gorilla) -> today Pan trogl. & paniscus.
-- Homo left: S.Asian coasts -> Java early-Pleist. -> shallow-dving: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, DHA, brain+, tool use, shell engravings...
mid->late-Pleist.: diving->wading->walking H.sapiens.

Simple, no? https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

IOW, only *incredible*idiots believe their Plio- or Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes... :-D

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Bipedal wading is seen in e.g. Nasalis monkey in mangrove forests, they also climb sometimes arms overhead.
India approached S-Asia c 30-20 Ma: island archipels, full of coastal forests:
Catarrhini reaching these islands became wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead = aquarboreal Hominoidea.
India underneath Asia c 20 Ma split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W) in coastal forests along N-Tethys Ocean.
Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split pongids (E) & hominids (W): Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea swamp forests.
N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis->boisei, today G.gorilla & beringei.
6-5 Red Sea opens into Gulf (Francesca mansfiels casued by Zanclean mega-flood):
-- Pan right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Austr.africanus->robustus (// Gorilla) -> today Pan trogl. & paniscus.
-- Homo left: S.Asian coasts -> Java early-Pleist. -> shallow-dving: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, DHA, brain+, tool use, shell engravings...
mid->late-Pleist.: diving->wading->walking H.sapiens.
Simple, no? https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
IOW, only *incredible*idiots believe their Plio- or Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes... :-D

kudu runner:

Anecdotal nonsense.

Every details is biologically correct, my little boy.
Moreover, it fits remarkably well with plate tectonics: https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

"Group selection"?? :-DDD
You still live in the middle ages.
Keep running after your kudus.

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On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 8:00:04 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Hominoid evolution is not so difficult in general (even I can understand...).

Bipedal wading is seen in e.g. Nasalis monkey in mangrove forests, they also climb sometimes arms overhead.
India approached S-Asia c 30-20 Ma: island archipels, full of coastal forests:
Catarrhini reaching these islands became wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead = aquarboreal Hominoidea.
India underneath Asia c 20 Ma split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W) in coastal forests along N-Tethys Ocean.
Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split pongids (E) & hominids (W): Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea swamp forests.
N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis->boisei, today G.gorilla & beringei.
6-5 Red Sea opens into Gulf (Francesca mansfiels casued by Zanclean mega-flood):
-- Pan right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Austr.africanus->robustus (// Gorilla) -> today Pan trogl. & paniscus.
-- Homo left: S.Asian coasts -> Java early-Pleist. -> shallow-dving: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, DHA, brain+, tool use, shell engravings...
mid->late-Pleist.: diving->wading->walking H.sapiens.

Simple, no? https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

IOW, only *incredible*idiots believe their Plio- or Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes... :-D

Anecdotal nonsense. Without group/communal selection you don't have a viable scenario. Many hominid traits simply could not have evolved if they did not enable communities that possessed the behaviors/traits to survive while communities that lacked
these behaviors/traits went extinct as a result of predatory massacres during the depths of the dry season. So, Marc, what you have fails to predict the high degree of socialty and related social skills that ARE SO PLAINLY APPARENT TO ANY OBJECTIVE
OBSERVER.

James McGinn / Genius

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On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 9:04:16 AM UTC-7, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Bipedal wading is seen in e.g. Nasalis monkey in mangrove forests, they also climb sometimes arms overhead.
India approached S-Asia c 30-20 Ma: island archipels, full of coastal forests:
Catarrhini reaching these islands became wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead = aquarboreal Hominoidea.
India underneath Asia c 20 Ma split hylobatids (E) & other=great apes (W) in coastal forests along N-Tethys Ocean.
Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split pongids (E) & hominids (W): Medit.Sea + incipient Red Sea swamp forests.
N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthr.afarensis->boisei, today G.gorilla & beringei.
6-5 Red Sea opens into Gulf (Francesca mansfiels casued by Zanclean mega-flood):
-- Pan right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal -> Austr.africanus->robustus (// Gorilla) -> today Pan trogl. & paniscus.
-- Homo left: S.Asian coasts -> Java early-Pleist. -> shallow-dving: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, DHA, brain+, tool use, shell engravings...
mid->late-Pleist.: diving->wading->walking H.sapiens.
Simple, no? https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
IOW, only *incredible*idiots believe their Plio- or Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes... :-D

kudu runner:

Anecdotal nonsense.

Every details is biologically correct,

Meaningless.

] my little boy.

Moreover, it fits remarkably well with plate tectonics: https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

"Group selection"?? :-DDD
You still live in the middle ages.
Keep running after your kudus.

You got nothing, you straw-baiting asshole.

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Hominoid evolution is not so difficult in general (even I can understand...).

Bipedal wading is seen in e.g. Nasalis monkey in mangrove forests, they also climb sometimes arms overhead.

If we back up a little, take in a wide view, the proverbial Big Picture, there is no denying that your idea that the exploitation of aquatic resources
led to bipedalism, and apes are ancestors of these bipedal species that regressed, makes a HUGE amount of sense.

Where we split is in that I see this process continuing throughout the
history of our genus, resulting in not just apes but Ardi, Lucy and
eventually Neanderthals & Denisovans (etc): Groups peeling away
from the parent population, moving inland, adapting to a new niche...

I see Homo going to disparate specialists to the consummate generalist
as resulting from the sharing of genes between these niche groups via
the "Aquatic Ape" parent population.

And, yes, I see bottleneck such as cataclysmic events (Super volcanoes, asteroids) and interbreeding issues (The chromosome fusion) heavily
favoring the complexity of the parent Aquatic Ape group, in a sense
"Resetting" the system and allowing this process to begin all over again, starting at a "Higher Level."

Oo! I'm all a-tingle!

We say "Out of Africa" today because one such cataclysm, and when I
say one I mean at least two, favored the African population(s) over that
of Europe and most of Asia... going back much further than African
population had been descended from a Eurasian group.

Toba HEAVILY favored Africa over Eurasia and even Sundaland, as
Sundaland was Ground-Zero.

And I have to agree with people like John Hawks, who shamelessly
worships at the church of Darwin, that CULTURE is important. We are
speaking of Homo, humans, and culture can and does shape us. For
this reason I can't dismiss r/K selection. There were different breeding "Strategies" for sure. Male genitals have changed, evolved a great
deal, at least as much as our hand or foot. I mean, we lost a whole
bone! So clearly there was a great deal of selective pressure going
on there, which means sex was an enormous contributor or shaping
modern man. And, sex, sexual reproduction does pertain to culture
at a fundamental level.

There. I think I touched on all the taboos... maybe forgot cannibalism
but, hey, THAT went on!



-- --

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