• IF the Aquatic Ape model is right, IF it is right...

    From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 13:56:41 2023
    One prediction is that brain size should not be a constant,
    it should grow larger & smaller between populations and
    lifestyles.

    Simple: Even a diet of the most DHA poor seafoods is
    going to greatly exceed anything found on land. So the
    results should be an enlargement of the brain.

    How large?

    Well... eh.

    Meaning, it would be limited to genetics. Right?

    It's not, "I ate some clams. I'm Einstein now. No moe
    flinging poo for me!"

    That's not what happened. Probably. It probably didn't
    happen that way.

    And maybe intelligence was something of an emergent
    trait. Not so much selected for, just something that happened
    because the brain grew bigger, and the brain grew bigger
    because of all that seafood....

    Or maybe they had to wait for some convenient genetic
    mutation because they could start taking any real advantage
    of their greater gray matter...

    Doesn't matter. What is important here is that the lifestyle,
    the environment -- the diet -- resulted in bigger brains. Change
    that and you change the brain size.

    Right?

    So if you see something with a smaller brain size like.. like..
    oh.. just making something up here.. like let's say that there's
    this creature we call Sediba. And it's brain is too small. It kind
    of almost looks Homo but it also looks like it's adapted more
    towards something like a Chimp lifestyle (habitat) AND it has
    a smaller brain.

    Let's say our made-up animal, Sediba, is younger than some
    finds labelled "Homo" but has a smaller brain. So doesn't that
    tell us that it moved AWAY from an environment, a lifestyle, a
    diet conducive to a larger brain, and towards one that only
    supports a smaller one?

    Hmm?

    DISCLAIMER: I do *Not* like linear models. I hate the idea
    that Some aquatic ape followed an freshwater outland inland,
    at a root or scavenged an antelope then turned into a Chimp.

    Nope. Double nope. Don't like it.

    This is something -- a process, a "Dynamic" -- I see as happening
    from the get go, and continuing even now.

    Yes, as a matter of fact researchers do identify a loss of brain
    size even in historic times! It seems to coincide with the rise of
    empire, cities -- Civilization. Which makes sense: As grains and
    the animals feeding on them (but mostly just the grains) grew as
    a percentage of the diet, the DHA fell...

    And this is why the fake science that is paleoanthropology is so
    wrong with it's Selection/Preservation/Sample bias. Maybe Lucy
    is an ancestor (I doubt it), maybe it's an inland group that has
    already evolved away from the Aquatic Ape population. Maybe
    it's the hybrid of the Aquatic Ape population and a group to have
    previously peeled off and adapted to the inland environment...

    Maybe, maybe, maybe. We don't know. But everyone assumes
    that we do.

    Evidence almost always supports more than one conclusion. What
    you need to do is amass as much of it as you can until you reach
    a point of convergence, where the evidence points to one
    conclusion while excluding others. And that "Conclusion" has to be
    a model that explains everything the best.

    Yes, Aquatic Ape.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/708063715696820224

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 15:19:41 2023
    Hi JTEM,
    -- Lucy is obviously IMO just a Pliocene relative of Gorilla, still aquarboreal (rather than aquatic):
    frequently wading bipedally in forest swamps + climbing arms overhead in the branches above the swamp.
    -- Au.sediba, OTOH, is an early-Pleistocene relative of Pan, hence less gorilla- & more human-like than Lucy was,
    I'd think most related to Au.robustus?

    ______


    Op donderdag 2 februari 2023 om 22:56:42 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
    One prediction is that brain size should not be a constant,
    it should grow larger & smaller between populations and
    lifestyles.

    Simple: Even a diet of the most DHA poor seafoods is
    going to greatly exceed anything found on land. So the
    results should be an enlargement of the brain.

    How large?

    Well... eh.

    Meaning, it would be limited to genetics. Right?

    It's not, "I ate some clams. I'm Einstein now. No moe
    flinging poo for me!"

    That's not what happened. Probably. It probably didn't
    happen that way.

    And maybe intelligence was something of an emergent
    trait. Not so much selected for, just something that happened
    because the brain grew bigger, and the brain grew bigger
    because of all that seafood....

    Or maybe they had to wait for some convenient genetic
    mutation because they could start taking any real advantage
    of their greater gray matter...

    Doesn't matter. What is important here is that the lifestyle,
    the environment -- the diet -- resulted in bigger brains. Change
    that and you change the brain size.

    Right?

    So if you see something with a smaller brain size like.. like..
    oh.. just making something up here.. like let's say that there's
    this creature we call Sediba. And it's brain is too small. It kind
    of almost looks Homo but it also looks like it's adapted more
    towards something like a Chimp lifestyle (habitat) AND it has
    a smaller brain.

    Let's say our made-up animal, Sediba, is younger than some
    finds labelled "Homo" but has a smaller brain. So doesn't that
    tell us that it moved AWAY from an environment, a lifestyle, a
    diet conducive to a larger brain, and towards one that only
    supports a smaller one?

    Hmm?

    DISCLAIMER: I do *Not* like linear models. I hate the idea
    that Some aquatic ape followed an freshwater outland inland,
    at a root or scavenged an antelope then turned into a Chimp.

    Nope. Double nope. Don't like it.

    This is something -- a process, a "Dynamic" -- I see as happening
    from the get go, and continuing even now.

    Yes, as a matter of fact researchers do identify a loss of brain
    size even in historic times! It seems to coincide with the rise of
    empire, cities -- Civilization. Which makes sense: As grains and
    the animals feeding on them (but mostly just the grains) grew as
    a percentage of the diet, the DHA fell...

    And this is why the fake science that is paleoanthropology is so
    wrong with it's Selection/Preservation/Sample bias. Maybe Lucy
    is an ancestor (I doubt it), maybe it's an inland group that has
    already evolved away from the Aquatic Ape population. Maybe
    it's the hybrid of the Aquatic Ape population and a group to have
    previously peeled off and adapted to the inland environment...

    Maybe, maybe, maybe. We don't know. But everyone assumes
    that we do.

    Evidence almost always supports more than one conclusion. What
    you need to do is amass as much of it as you can until you reach
    a point of convergence, where the evidence points to one
    conclusion while excluding others. And that "Conclusion" has to be
    a model that explains everything the best.

    Yes, Aquatic Ape.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)