• Hominoid tail loss, folic acid

    From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 19 10:16:50 2021
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 19 14:36:46 2021
    Op dinsdag 19 oktober 2021 om 19:16:51 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Wed Oct 20 20:15:06 2021
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 5:36:47 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op dinsdag 19 oktober 2021 om 19:16:51 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

    I've already clearly explained why.

    Fruits & nuts hanging between branches are more efficiently harvested by bimanual-suspended foot-grasping & bipedal-orthograde hand-plucking in combination with slow brachiation and upright walking. This behaviour pre-existed tail-loss incipiently and
    was a selective force when the gene mutation occurred, which in turn selected strongly for tendon-locking perching on horizontal and diagonal branches as seen in hylobatids and vestigially in humans cf nocturnal calf-cramp "charley horse" avatism; and in
    perfect parallel to avians esp. raptors.

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 11:11:27 2021
    Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 05:15:07 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:


    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

    I've already clearly explained why.

    :-DDD

    Fruits & nuts hanging between branches are more efficiently harvested by bimanual-suspended foot-grasping & bipedal-orthograde hand-plucking in combination with slow brachiation and upright walking.

    Yes, and that explains IYO why all monkeys have broad thoraces, weigh >50 kg, have centrally-placed spines etc.etc.?

    This behaviour pre-existed tail-loss incipiently and was a selective force when the gene mutation occurred, which in turn selected strongly for tendon-locking perching on horizontal and diagonal branches as seen in hylobatids and vestigially in humans
    cf nocturnal calf-cramp "charley horse" avatism; and in perfect parallel to avians esp. raptors.

    Just-so story - but indeed markedly better than the ridiculous endurance-running fantasy.

    Early apes became much bigger & upright & broadly-built & lost the tail to wade in swamp forests, but yes: probably to harvest fruits & nuts hanging overhead.
    This is seen incipiently in Nasalis concolor, IOW, it easily explains why early apes lost their tail,
    google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
    M Verhaegen, P-F Puech & S Munro 2002 Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7.

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Thu Oct 21 12:36:14 2021
    On Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 2:11:28 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 05:15:07 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

    I've already clearly explained why.
    :-DDD
    Fruits & nuts hanging between branches are more efficiently harvested by bimanual-suspended foot-grasping & bipedal-orthograde hand-plucking in combination with slow brachiation and upright walking.
    Yes, and that explains IYO why all monkeys

    No, all hominoids but no monkeys have locking tendons and:

    have broad thoraces,

    Can but not necessarily

    weigh >50 kg, have centrally-placed spines etc.etc.?



    This behaviour pre-existed tail-loss incipiently and was a selective force when the gene mutation occurred, which in turn selected strongly for tendon-locking perching on horizontal and diagonal branches as seen in hylobatids and vestigially in
    humans cf nocturnal calf-cramp "charley horse" avatism; and in perfect parallel to avians esp. raptors.
    Just-so story

    Wrong. Exact parallel in pterosaurs, avians & hominoids, all arboreal non-waders!!! Upright perching & plucking with feet, but not by monkeys!!

    - but indeed markedly better than the ridiculous endurance-running fantasy.

    Your precious strawman of no relevance here.

    Early apes became much bigger & upright & broadly-built & lost the tail to wade

    Fallacy. No wading early hominoids, probably swam like sloths rarely, until air sacs evolved which selected for upright buoyancy.

    in swamp forests, but yes: probably to harvest fruits & nuts hanging overhead.
    This is seen incipiently in Nasalis concolor,

    Wrong, Nasalis can't lock their pedal tendons.

    IOW, it easily explains why early apes lost their tail,

    No connection.

    google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
    M Verhaegen, P-F Puech & S Munro 2002 Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7.

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 15:51:57 2021
    Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 21:36:15 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:


    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

    I've already clearly explained why.

    :-DDD

    Fruits & nuts hanging between branches are more efficiently harvested by bimanual-suspended foot-grasping & bipedal-orthograde hand-plucking in combination with slow brachiation and upright walking.

    Yes, and that explains IYO why all monkeys

    No, all hominoids but no monkeys have locking tendons and have broad thoraces,

    Locking tendons??

    Broad thorax = broad sternum (Latisternalia) = lateral movements of arms = vertical spine.
    Early hominoids were wading upright, they used their arms to pick fruits above & climbed hanging below-branch.

    Can but not necessarily

    ??

    weigh >50 kg, have centrally-placed spines etc.etc.?

    No answer, of course.

    This behaviour pre-existed tail-loss incipiently and was a selective force when the gene mutation occurred, which in turn selected strongly for tendon-locking perching on horizontal and diagonal branches as seen in hylobatids and vestigially in
    humans cf nocturnal calf-cramp "charley horse" avatism; and in perfect parallel to avians esp. raptors.

    Just-so story.

    Wrong. Exact parallel in pterosaurs, avians & hominoids, all arboreal non-waders!!! Upright perching & plucking with feet, but not by monkeys!!

    Don't talk nonsense:
    -pterosaurs onknown,
    -no bird uses its wings to pick fruits,
    -no bird has flat feet to wade.

    - but indeed markedly better than the ridiculous endurance-running fantasy.

    Your precious strawman of no relevance here.

    OK, but it's still the most ridiculous story ever told. :-DDD

    Early apes became much bigger & upright & broadly-built & lost the tail to wade

    Fallacy. No wading early hominoids, probably swam like sloths rarely, until air sacs evolved which selected for upright buoyancy.

    Don't you know the difference between wade & swim??

    in swamp forests, but yes: probably to harvest fruits & nuts hanging overhead.

    This is seen incipiently in Nasalis concolor,

    Wrong, Nasalis can't lock their pedal tendons.

    This has 0 to do with it.
    Don't you know the difference between wade & perch??

    IOW, it easily explains why early apes lost their tail,

    No connection.

    The paper, my boy, https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
    M Verhaegen, P-F Puech & S Munro 2002 Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7.

    No answer, of course.

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Thu Oct 21 18:30:44 2021
    On Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 6:51:58 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 21:36:15 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/

    Yes, this might explain how early apes lost their tail.
    The why is easier, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors".

    I've already clearly explained why.

    :-DDD

    Fruits & nuts hanging between branches are more efficiently harvested by bimanual-suspended foot-grasping & bipedal-orthograde hand-plucking in combination with slow brachiation and upright walking.

    Yes, and that explains IYO why all monkeys

    No, all hominoids but no monkeys have locking tendons and have broad thoraces,
    Locking tendons??

    Broad thorax = broad sternum (Latisternalia) = lateral movements of arms = vertical spine.
    Early hominoids were wading upright, they used their arms to pick fruits above & climbed hanging below-branch.

    Can but not necessarily

    ??
    weigh >50 kg, have centrally-placed spines etc.etc.?
    No answer, of course.
    This behaviour pre-existed tail-loss incipiently and was a selective force when the gene mutation occurred, which in turn selected strongly for tendon-locking perching on horizontal and diagonal branches as seen in hylobatids and vestigially in
    humans cf nocturnal calf-cramp "charley horse" avatism; and in perfect parallel to avians esp. raptors.
    Just-so story.
    Wrong. Exact parallel in pterosaurs, avians & hominoids, all arboreal non-waders!!! Upright perching & plucking with feet, but not by monkeys!!
    Don't talk nonsense:
    -pterosaurs onknown,
    -no bird uses its wings to pick fruits,
    -no bird has flat feet to wade.
    - but indeed markedly better than the ridiculous endurance-running fantasy.

    Your precious strawman of no relevance here.
    OK, but it's still the most ridiculous story ever told. :-DDD
    Early apes became much bigger & upright & broadly-built & lost the tail to wade

    Fallacy. No wading early hominoids, probably swam like sloths rarely, until air sacs evolved which selected for upright buoyancy.
    Don't you know the difference between wade & swim??
    in swamp forests, but yes: probably to harvest fruits & nuts hanging overhead.

    This is seen incipiently in Nasalis concolor,

    Wrong, Nasalis can't lock their pedal tendons.
    This has 0 to do with it.
    Don't you know the difference between wade & perch??
    IOW, it easily explains why early apes lost their tail,

    No connection.
    The paper, my boy, https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a37790228/human-tails/
    google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
    M Verhaegen, P-F Puech & S Munro 2002 Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7.
    No answer, of course.

    See new thread: Parallel Convergence in Tendon locking & Tail loss

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