https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vIOMBSBfc0
I just saw the video: beautiful, very interesting, thanks a lot, Bert & Algis!

Paleo-Anthropology is not only stagnating as Bert says: IMO it's no serious science:
its methods are excellent I'd think (age determinations, DNA, images, scans, isotopes etc.),
but the usual PA *interpretations* are unscientific prejudices: they believe:
- "we evolved in Africa, because gorillas & chimps live there" (afrocentrism), - "apiths are human ancestors ("hominins"), because they're BP" (anthropocentrism),
- "we lived in savanna, because QP apes live in forests, and BP humans outside forests" (afro+anthropocentrism).

Not only Pliocene "hominins", but Miocene Hominoidea were already BP, not for running, but for wading-climbing: google "aquarboreal":
they initially lived in swamp (coastal?) forests, wading upright & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the swamp.
And we did not evolve in Africa: these early Hominoidea lived in S-Asia, and hylobatids & pongids still live there (SE.Asia).
Most likely, late-Miocene Homo-Pan lived in the Red Sea coastal forests, i.e. between Africa & Arabia late-Miocene,
but after c 5 Ma (Red Sea opening into the Gulf = 5.3 Ma?), Pliocene Pan followed the E.Afr.coastal forests, Homo followed the S.Asian coasts.
I've discussed this more fully in my new book "De evolutie van de Mens" pp.299-300 (both Bert & Algis are mentioned in my book :-)).

There are 100s of "hominin" fossils in Afrika, traditional PA believes, and all are relatives of only 1 (us) of the 5 extant hominid spp:
bonobos, common chimps, lowland & highland gorillas have virtually 0 fossils, they think.
This is anthropocentric fantasy, of course, statistically impossible & scientifically wrong!
Yes, australopiths were "BP": all apes had BP=aquarboreal ancestors, but this doesn't make apiths closer relatives of us than of the Afr.apes!

Detailed comparisons (descriptions as well as cranio-dental measurements) show that
- E.Afr.apiths (Lucy etc.) were relatives of Gorilla, not of Homo-Pan,
- S.Afr.apiths (Taung, Mrs Ples etc.) were closer relatives of Pan than of Homo.
E & S.afr.apiths apparently evolved in //, from late-Miocene "graciles" to early-Pleist."robusts":
e.g. afarensis-->boisei // africanus-->robustus.
Such parallel & covergent evolutions are apparently too difficult for traditional PAs
(many possibly still don't believe that knuckle-walking evolved in parallel in Gorilla // Pan).

Human Pliocene evolution had nothing to do with Africa: Homo simply followed the S.Asian coasts.
What is certain: H.erectus c 2 Ma at Java was pachyosteosclerotic (POS),
and POS is *only* seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods: H.erectus were real aq.apes!
H.erectus probably ate a lot of shellfish: shell engravings (google "Joordens Munro"), stone tools, larger brain etc.

IOW, traditional PA is still very unscientific in several ways:
- apiths=Afr.apes=aquarboreal, not savanna!
- H.erectus=diver, SE.Asia, no Afr.runner!
- even H.neand. was still semi-aquatic (POS He>Hn>Hs): seasonally following the river inland?

PAs that still believe in ridiculous slogans like "H.erectus = running" & "apiths = hominin" will not readily accept AAT, I'm afraid...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vIOMBSBfc0
I just saw the video: beautiful, very interesting, thanks a lot, Bert & Algis!

I hate to criticize but it wasn't my favorite.

He concludes, for example, a more recent Aquatic Ape ancestor, does he
not? I think the ball got rolling *Way* early. That, it's what gave rise to the "Great Apes" in the first place.

He also talked about endure running. Yes humans are capable of this, we
are capable of climbing trees, swimming and there was an actual woman, mentioned on the Ted Talks, who could achieve orgasm by brushing her
teeth.

Honestly? I can't recall the last time I walked down the street and saw
anyone climbing trees. It may of happened. If it did it was a child, maybe
a teen, but it's not something that's "Normal."

And I've never seen tooth-brushing porn either. So I'm guessing that is
the exception, not the rule, as well.

Persistence hunting? Definitely the exception. Absolutely positively NOT
the rule amongst human hunters.

I think what we have here, in the case of things like tree climbing and endurance running, are duel concepts. One is that of the "Emergent
Trait." In this case, meaning things like running weren't selected for but
it was an ability that just sort of "Emerged" from walking... perhaps
even swimming (kicking in the water).

The other concept is "Vestigial Traits." In nature, sometimes, traits go
away pretty quickly when they are no longer needed. I guess those
genes are something less than "Dominant." But on all other cases you
really need some selective pressure AGAINST a deep rooted trait
before it vanishes.

Sort of a biological "Law of Conservation" I guess... why change when
there's no good reason to bother.

Lucy displays what we like to think of as some Aquatic Ape traits
because that's what she's descended from. Giant sauropod dinosaurs
do have skeletons that appear to be somewhat optimized for
occasional bipedalism, maybe rearing up, BECAUSE they are descended
from much smaller, bipedal dinosaurs.

And, of course, I've long since cast my doubt on Aquatic Ape being
anything but casually (indirectly) related to the evolution of our genitals.

Aquatic Ape is what produced all these widely dispersed, DIFFERENT
groups of Homo. And this resulted in cultural differences, including
different sexual/reproductive strategies. Some were sexually selected,
some were not. The more heavily sexually selected, the more selective
pressure on penis size... the more sperm competition between males,
the larger the testicles. Well humans have larger penises, even humans considered "Small" would be admired & envied by the average gorilla,
but our testicles are very middle of the road.

Even so, there's HUGE variation in so called "Modern" human men, both
in penis and testicle size. I've actually seen guys with massive orbs
resting beneath a flesh-toned string bean. So the same guy, two extremes.

To me this can only mean modern humans result from MULTIPLE
sexual/reproductive strategies. Not that our willies got long because of
the water.

Dude, boi parts SHRINK in the water!

"I've been swimming" is the biggest excuse for a turtle dick...






-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/Conceal%20carry

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Yes, of course, some Hs can persistence-hunt, but with weapons, water-bags etc., IOW, only Holocene or so:
only *incredible idiots* believe H.erectus (POS, broad body, short tibias, flat feet etc.etc.) ran after antelopes!! :-DDDDD

Lucy was a Pliocene relative of Gorilla, very likely still aquarboreal.

I just saw again the Sir David's beautiful video of diving crab-eating macaques https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beEAKVZsJe8
Amazing, and at first sight, Macaca fascicularis has no "aquatic" adaptations: this suggests that H.erectus c 2 Ma (POS, brain x2, platycephaly, platypelloidy etc.etc.) was *very* much adapted to frequent diving.

_____


Op dinsdag 10 januari 2023 om 23:30:32 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vIOMBSBfc0
I just saw the video: beautiful, very interesting, thanks a lot, Bert & Algis!

I hate to criticize but it wasn't my favorite.

He concludes, for example, a more recent Aquatic Ape ancestor, does he
not? I think the ball got rolling *Way* early. That, it's what gave rise to the
"Great Apes" in the first place.

He also talked about endure running. Yes humans are capable of this, we
are capable of climbing trees, swimming and there was an actual woman, mentioned on the Ted Talks, who could achieve orgasm by brushing her
teeth.

Honestly? I can't recall the last time I walked down the street and saw anyone climbing trees. It may of happened. If it did it was a child, maybe
a teen, but it's not something that's "Normal."

And I've never seen tooth-brushing porn either. So I'm guessing that is
the exception, not the rule, as well.

Persistence hunting? Definitely the exception. Absolutely positively NOT
the rule amongst human hunters.

I think what we have here, in the case of things like tree climbing and endurance running, are duel concepts. One is that of the "Emergent
Trait." In this case, meaning things like running weren't selected for but
it was an ability that just sort of "Emerged" from walking... perhaps
even swimming (kicking in the water).

The other concept is "Vestigial Traits." In nature, sometimes, traits go
away pretty quickly when they are no longer needed. I guess those
genes are something less than "Dominant." But on all other cases you
really need some selective pressure AGAINST a deep rooted trait
before it vanishes.

Sort of a biological "Law of Conservation" I guess... why change when
there's no good reason to bother.

Lucy displays what we like to think of as some Aquatic Ape traits
because that's what she's descended from. Giant sauropod dinosaurs
do have skeletons that appear to be somewhat optimized for
occasional bipedalism, maybe rearing up, BECAUSE they are descended
from much smaller, bipedal dinosaurs.

And, of course, I've long since cast my doubt on Aquatic Ape being
anything but casually (indirectly) related to the evolution of our genitals.

Aquatic Ape is what produced all these widely dispersed, DIFFERENT
groups of Homo. And this resulted in cultural differences, including different sexual/reproductive strategies. Some were sexually selected,
some were not. The more heavily sexually selected, the more selective pressure on penis size... the more sperm competition between males,
the larger the testicles. Well humans have larger penises, even humans considered "Small" would be admired & envied by the average gorilla,
but our testicles are very middle of the road.

Even so, there's HUGE variation in so called "Modern" human men, both
in penis and testicle size. I've actually seen guys with massive orbs
resting beneath a flesh-toned string bean. So the same guy, two extremes.

To me this can only mean modern humans result from MULTIPLE sexual/reproductive strategies. Not that our willies got long because of
the water.

Dude, boi parts SHRINK in the water!

"I've been swimming" is the biggest excuse for a turtle dick...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)