Or maybe it is...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/11/05/131105672/british-scientists-neanderthals-had-lots-of-sex

in reality, when we talk about "Sexual Selection" in terms
of human origins, or even primates for that matter, what
we actually mean is "Sperm Competition."

Gorillas have very little sperm competition. They have
the smallest testicles. Chimps have a great deal of
sperm competition. They have the largest testicles. And,
of course, we humans lay somewhere between those
two.

I've always argued that different populations had different
reproductive strategies. In that argument I've said that
the African population we think of as the "Out of Africa"
population was likely "Sexually selected." Maybe something
approximating Bonobos. Neanderthals, on the other hand,
more closely resembled Gorillas, with a dominant male.

Yes. The above link is consistent with this.

SPECIAL TO PALEO ANTHROPOLOGISTS:

No, microwaving the cat is _Not_ a good idea, even if you
think it must be cold. And stop eating all that paste... now
listen up:

There were MANY African populations. Some claim as
much as 60% of the human population could have been
living in Africa. And then Toba hit.

So Toba hit, there was a population bottleneck and Africa
was the place best suited to "Weather the Storm." Africa
was never homogeneous -- it's probably the closest to
being homogeneous NOW, post Bantu Expansion, but it's
still not homogeneous -- and the "Winner" wasn't Africa
but whatever population in Africa recovered FIRST. And
a well situated sexually selected group is the most likely
winner.

Now imagine Neanderthals coming across them... a
sexually selected group... a group whose attractiveness
decided on reproductive opportunities... lots of neonatal
traits retained into adulthood... attractive... sexual
dimorphism... while Neanderthal women looked a lot
like Neanderthal men, including the muscles...

Yeah, they went out with a "Bang," if you'll pardon the pun,
those Neanderthals.




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/703468006592905216

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op woensdag 14 december 2022 om 07:12:25 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:

Testicle size: P>H>G:
-Gorilla 1-male-group (polygyny),
-Homo originally monogamous (duetting + voluntary breathing -> speech),
-Pan multi-male group.

Or maybe it is...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/11/05/131105672/british-scientists-neanderthals-had-lots-of-sex

in reality, when we talk about "Sexual Selection" in terms
of human origins, or even primates for that matter, what
we actually mean is "Sperm Competition."

Gorillas have very little sperm competition. They have
the smallest testicles. Chimps have a great deal of
sperm competition. They have the largest testicles. And,
of course, we humans lay somewhere between those
two.

I've always argued that different populations had different
reproductive strategies. In that argument I've said that
the African population we think of as the "Out of Africa"
population was likely "Sexually selected." Maybe something
approximating Bonobos. Neanderthals, on the other hand,
more closely resembled Gorillas, with a dominant male.

Yes. The above link is consistent with this.

SPECIAL TO PALEO ANTHROPOLOGISTS:

No, microwaving the cat is _Not_ a good idea, even if you
think it must be cold. And stop eating all that paste... now
listen up:

There were MANY African populations. Some claim as
much as 60% of the human population could have been
living in Africa. And then Toba hit.

So Toba hit, there was a population bottleneck and Africa
was the place best suited to "Weather the Storm." Africa
was never homogeneous -- it's probably the closest to
being homogeneous NOW, post Bantu Expansion, but it's
still not homogeneous -- and the "Winner" wasn't Africa
but whatever population in Africa recovered FIRST. And
a well situated sexually selected group is the most likely
winner.

Now imagine Neanderthals coming across them... a
sexually selected group... a group whose attractiveness
decided on reproductive opportunities... lots of neonatal
traits retained into adulthood... attractive... sexual
dimorphism... while Neanderthal women looked a lot
like Neanderthal men, including the muscles...

Yeah, they went out with a "Bang," if you'll pardon the pun,
those Neanderthals.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Testicle size: P>H>G:
-Gorilla 1-male-group (polygyny),
-Homo originally monogamous (duetting + voluntary breathing -> speech),
-Pan multi-male group.

I would argue that Homo pursued multiple, independent reproductive
strategies. That, some groups (Cultures?) were more like Bonobos,
some more like Gorillas, some like neither...

The kind of information I would be looking for is not which species has
the largest penis or testicles, but the variation within the species. From
what I've seen -- and I have nothing handy and I could be out of date or
just plain wrong -- humans have greater variation.

I personally think reproductive strategies are very important. Not just academically -- the whole r/K selection argument -- but it could tell us
WHY some groups vanished, and thus when contact/interbreeding
occurred.

...personal theory is that the so called Hss were sexually selected,
and hence "Won" the race to repopulate the world after various
catastrophes.

Toba, yes, but that was over 70k years ago! Neanderthals were probably finished off a little over 40k years ago... if anything, Toba probably
created what we think of as the classic Neanderthal.








-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/703957678535376896

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Testicle size: P>H>G:

-Gorilla 1-male-group (polygyny),

No need for large testicles: only 1 male.

-Homo originally monogamous (duetting + voluntary breathing -> speech),

Male cooperation etc.: sometimes extramarital inseminations.

-Pan multi-male group.

The male who produces most sperm fertilizes the female.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)