Was naledi a member of the human family?
2017 Science 356:571

If naledi is only 250,000 years old, this is another argument that naledi is unlikely to belong to the genus Homo.
In fact, none of naledi's humanlike traits are exclusively-human, e.g. chimps before birth have humanlike feet (with long and adducted first digital rays) which near birth become hand-like (C.Coon "The Story of Man" p.12): "Only as it approaches its
birth does its foot acquire the appearance of a hand. At no stage in its development does the human foot resemble that of an adult ape."
This implies that the human foot is generally more primitive than the chimp foot (for a more thorough discussion, see e.g. 2013 Hum.Evol.28:237-266).
Such plantigrade humanlike feet were not for running as often popularly but uncritically assumed, e.g. cursorial spp such as ostriches or kangaroos have digitigrade feet with very short & weakly developed first & last digital rays, but very long &
strong middle toes, very unlike the flat feet of humans, naledi, australopiths, prenatal chimps, grebes, penguins, flamingoes etc.
Comparative evidence suggests our feet evolved from climbing-feet (early primates) to swimming-wading-feet (australopiths & early apes) to walking-feet (humans):
australopiths are typically found in swamp forests & wetlands (e.g. K.Reed 1997 J.hum.Evol.32:289-322): "Reconstructed habitats show that Australopithecus spp existed in fairly wooded, well-watered regions. Paranthropus spp lived in similar environs &
also in more open regions, but always in habitats that include wetlands."
In wetlands & forest swamps, they could have waded bipedally for wetland foods etc., not unlike lowland gorillas & bonobos but a lot more frequently (google e.g. "bonobo wading" illustrations).
Naledi was found in mud-stone, which forms in stagnant or slowly-moving waters (P.Dirks) such as wetlands,
e.g. A.afarensis Lucy AL 288 was found amid crab claws & crocodile & turtle eggs (D.Johanson & M.Taieb 1976 Nature 260:293-297): "Fossil preservation at this locality is excellent, remains of delicate items such as crocodile & turtle eggs & crab claws
being found."
Fossil accumulations are not rare in paleontology, esp. not in anthropology, see e.g. the so-called First Family of Au.afarensis AL 333 (S. Radosevich et al.1992 Am.J.phys.Anthr.87:15-27):
"The bones were found in swale-like features […] it is very likely that they died & partially rotted at or very near this site […] this group of hominids was buried in streamside gallery woodland."
Most likely, naledi was some sort of swamp-adapted bonobo, which waded bipedally for wetland resources such as papyrus sedges (lowland gorillas) or waterlilies (bonobos), google e.g. "unproven assumptions so-called aquatic ape hypothesis".
In any case, there is no need for anthropocentrisms such as "member of the human family" & "deliberate burial" (which is unlikely in view of naledi's ape-sized brain).


Newest member of human family is surprisingly young
Ann Gibbons 2017 Science 356:571
doi: 10.1126/science.356.6338.571


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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

If naledi is only 250,000 years old, this is another argument that naledi is unlikely to belong to the genus Homo.

If it's Homo than that throws everything into question, including the existence of Pan.

In fact, none of naledi's humanlike traits are exclusively-human

Remember they pretended to find modern features to the brain? And it was over 2 million years old yet conducted prepared burials!

Best of all: Their conclusions have remained the same over the years, even when
the facts they were supposedly based on have changed.





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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 23:44:25 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

If naledi is only 250,000 years old, this is another argument that naledi is unlikely to belong to the genus Homo.

If it's Homo than that throws everything into question, including the existence of Pan.

Google "not homo but australopithecus or pan naledi PPT"

In fact, none of naledi's humanlike traits are exclusively-human

Remember they pretended to find modern features to the brain? And it was over 2
million years old yet conducted prepared burials!
Best of all: Their conclusions have remained the same over the years, even when
the facts they were supposedly based on have changed.

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Google "not homo but australopithecus or pan naledi PPT"

Dude, I've disputed pretty much everything they've claimed about Naledi.
There has been so much bullshit that I have sometimes wondered if it
really exists at all!




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Op vrijdag 8 oktober 2021 om 05:25:57 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

Dude, I've disputed pretty much everything they've claimed about Naledi. There has been so much bullshit that I have sometimes wondered if it
really exists at all!

Yes, insults & disputes is all you have.

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

Google "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, insults & disputes is all you have.

If you believe that then reading comprehension, and retention is something you don't have.

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

Not sure who you imagine claiming anything about antelopes right now, apart from
you...

Google "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

Why? This is a discussion group. Discuss.





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Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 06:34:27 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

Yes, insults & disputes is all you have.
Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

Not sure who you imagine claiming anything about antelopes right now, apart from
you...

All cursorial tetrapods (from lizard to kangaroo to ostrich) run on their middle toes.
Only imbecils believe their ancestors ran over the savannas on their big toes.

Google "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

Why? This is a discussion group. Discuss.

With imbecils who believe their ancestors ran after kudus? :-DDD

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

All cursorial tetrapods (from lizard to kangaroo to ostrich) run on their middle toes.
Only imbecils believe their ancestors ran over the savannas on their big toes.

Okay. But said that already. It's not really an argument for the inclusion of Naledi
within Pan.

For me, the extremely poor arguments in favor of "Homo" Naledi were as telling as
the evidence against it. I've posted on the topic of both. Meaning, I've addressed
both what the peanut gallery has claimed for Naledi as well as raised my own views,
and those of others.





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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op vrijdag 8 oktober 2021 om 05:25:57 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

Dude, I've disputed pretty much everything they've claimed about Naledi.
There has been so much bullshit that I have sometimes wondered if it
really exists at all!

Yes, insults & disputes is all you have.

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/running-made-us-human-how-we-evolved-to-run-marathons

...
Homo sapiens are relatively pathetic athletes by all measures. But when it comes
to long distance locomotion, we're remarkable. After 15 minutes of sustained running, fit humans can outlast nearly all mammals, especially in hot weather. ...
The role of running in human evolution has been most intensely investigated by Daniel Lieberman, a Harvard University evolutionary biologist and 9-time
Boston
Marathon runner. Lieberman and others hypothesize that roughly 2 million years ago Homo erectus ancestors, armed with sharpened sticks and stones, were able to kill prey by persistence hunting.
...


<https://www.cybertracker.org/downloads/tracking/Liebenberg-2006-Persistence-Hunting-Modern-Hunter-Gatherers.pdf>

Endurance running may be a derived capability of the genus Homo and may have been instrumental in the evolution of the human body form. Two hypotheses have been presented to explain why early Homo would have needed to run long distances: scavenging and persistence hunting. Persistence hunting takes
place during
the hottest time of the day and involves chasing an animal until it is run
to exhaustion.
A critical factor is the fact that humans can keep their bodies cool by sweating while
running. Another critical factor is the ability to track down an animal. Endurance
running may have had adaptive value not only in scavenging but also in persistence
hunting. Before the domestication of dogs, persistence hunting may have
been one of
the most efficient forms of hunting and may therefore have been crucial in the evolution of humans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
Human beings are a particular type of mammal. In this compelling clip, we
see a
tribesman runner pursue his prey through the most harsh conditions in a gruelling
eight hour chase.

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Primum Sapienti wrote:

[...]

Thanks for the random, off topic urls. They really answer a number of questions that I never asked and aren't at all relevant.







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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op donderdag 21 oktober 2021 om 06:34:27 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

Yes, insults & disputes is all you have.
Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

Not sure who you imagine claiming anything about antelopes right now, apart from
you...

All cursorial tetrapods (from lizard to kangaroo to ostrich) run on their middle toes.
Only imbecils believe their ancestors ran over the savannas on their big toes.

Google "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

Why? This is a discussion group. Discuss.

With imbecils who believe their ancestors ran after kudus? :-DDD

ALL aquatic mammals have short limbs.

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Op zaterdag 23 oktober 2021 om 06:42:38 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/running-made-us-human-how-we-evolved-to-run-marathons

Yes, it's incredible that Nature published such nonsense.
They're 50 years retarded, see my comment at the Nature paper.
All cursorial tetrapods run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible imbecils still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op zaterdag 23 oktober 2021 om 06:42:38 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/running-made-us-human-how-we-evolved-to-run-marathons

Yes, it's incredible that Nature published such nonsense.
They're 50 years retarded, see my comment at the Nature paper.
All cursorial tetrapods run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible imbecils still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

All - ALL - aquatic mammals have short limbs. Explain.

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Op maandag 1 november 2021 om 05:48:35 UTC+1 schreef Primum Sapienti:

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/running-made-us-human-how-we-evolved-to-run-marathons

Yes, it's incredible that Nature published such nonsense.
They're 50 years retarded, see my comment at the Nature paper.
All cursorial tetrapods run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible imbecils still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

All - ALL - aquatic mammals have short limbs. Explain.

Keep running after your kudu, my boy:
haven't you even seen this:
https://imgshare.io/image/verhaegen1985.NnU1uX
???

Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran on plantigrade feet after antelopes.

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op maandag 1 november 2021 om 05:48:35 UTC+1 schreef Primum Sapienti:

Cursorial mammals run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible fools still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/running-made-us-human-how-we-evolved-to-run-marathons

Yes, it's incredible that Nature published such nonsense.
They're 50 years retarded, see my comment at the Nature paper.
All cursorial tetrapods run on their toes or hooves, toes 3 or 3+4.
Only incredible imbecils still believe we evolved our feet + big toe to run after antelopes.

All - ALL - aquatic mammals have short limbs. Explain.

Keep running after your kudu, my boy:
haven't you even seen this:
https://imgshare.io/image/verhaegen1985.NnU1uX
???

Only incredible idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran on plantigrade feet after antelopes.

Waiting.

All - ALL - aquatic mammals have short limbs. Explain.

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