https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

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DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

The problem with dinosaurs is that they're a really crappy model for
just about ANYTHING. We point to their bird-like shapes, at least on
some, and their feathers or proto feathers and even "Feather like
thingies" but all of that starts before the Jurassic!

Look at human origins, the number of different species, the arguments
for still missing/unknown ancestors... now turn the clock back some
200,000,000 years and suddenly people are seeing it all with absolute
clarity? The ambiguity is gone? No more mysteries?

Bull & shit.

I've often argued -- wildly speculated -- that dinosaurs were secondarily flightless! Again, we already had the bird shaped bodies even before
the Jurassic, the origins of powered flight in vertebrates is unknown, pterosaurs were already taking to the air in the Triassic where, dagnabbit, that's where we point to for the first dinosaurs. And we know dinosaurs
and pterosaurs share a common ancestor, we think it was in the
Triassic so, how can it be earth shattering to suggest that maybe this
LCA was a pterosaur just as the last human/monkey LCA was a monkey?

But getting back to bipedalism...

So dinosaurs are worse than used kitty litter as a model here. The most
obvious problem is the tail. They used it for balance.

If dinosaurs wanted larger heads, like for bigger mouths/teeth/horns, frills/cresst, they just grew larger tails as a counter weight, balance.
Humans had to pursue a different adaptive strategy.





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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689330400963723264

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DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

[---Aduh---]

Congratulations. You sure fooled... yourself.




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688980245411397632

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On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:09:53 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

The problem with dinosaurs is that they're a really crappy model for
just about ANYTHING. We point to their bird-like shapes, at least on
some, and their feathers or proto feathers and even "Feather like
thingies" but all of that starts before the Jurassic!

Look at human origins, the number of different species, the arguments
for still missing/unknown ancestors... now turn the clock back some 200,000,000 years and suddenly people are seeing it all with absolute clarity? The ambiguity is gone? No more mysteries?

Bull & shit.

I've often argued -- wildly speculated -- that dinosaurs were secondarily flightless! Again, we already had the bird shaped bodies even before
the Jurassic, the origins of powered flight in vertebrates is unknown, pterosaurs were already taking to the air in the Triassic where, dagnabbit, that's where we point to for the first dinosaurs. And we know dinosaurs
and pterosaurs share a common ancestor, we think it was in the
Triassic so, how can it be earth shattering to suggest that maybe this
LCA was a pterosaur just as the last human/monkey LCA was a monkey?

But getting back to bipedalism...

So dinosaurs are worse than used kitty litter as a model here. The most obvious problem is the tail. They used it for balance.

If dinosaurs wanted larger heads, like for bigger mouths/teeth/horns, frills/cresst, they just grew larger tails as a counter weight, balance. Humans had to pursue a different adaptive strategy.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689330400963723264

Duh.

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On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 5:11:34 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
[---Aduh---]

Congratulations. You sure fooled... yourself.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688980245411397632

GIGO.

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DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

GIGO.

Someone is helping you! I can tell. You spelled it right, even
if you don't understand it one bit.

HINT: Read your previous response and ask an adult to
help you work out the contradiction.







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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689330400963723264

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On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 11:22:25 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

GIGO.

Someone is helping you! I can tell. You spelled it right, even
if you don't understand it one bit.

HINT: Read your previous response and ask an adult to
help you work out the contradiction.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689330400963723264

GIGO.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

You're consistent in your inability to use words correctly
as well as your cowardice in explaining let along defending
your position. Congratulations.




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689330400963723264

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On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:46:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

Upright bipeds

T rex big head big tail (striding)
Kangaroo long muzzle big tail (leaping)
Giant short faced kangaroo short tail (striding)
Sifaka long tail grasping feet (hopping)

Gibbon no tail, grasping feet (striding)
Homo big head no tail nongrasping feet (striding)
- large heel bone & thick occiput: striding anchorage

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On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 11:58:34 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:46:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

Upright bipeds

T rex big head big tail (striding)
Kangaroo long muzzle big tail (leaping)
Giant short faced kangaroo short tail (striding)
Sifaka long tail grasping feet (hopping)

Gibbon no tail, grasping feet (striding)
Homo big head no tail nongrasping feet (striding)
- large heel bone & thick occiput: striding anchorage

Modern running shoes allow direct heel strike, that is not the archaic method of running, which was full ground contact with the ball of the foot and the toes while the heel only lightly touched the ground.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 9:29:43 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 11:58:34 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:46:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

Says it all, right there.





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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689497168998989824

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:29:33 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 9:29:43 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 11:58:34 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:46:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

Says it all, right there.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/689497168998989824

GIGO.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op zondag 10 juli 2022 om 22:09:53 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

The problem with dinosaurs is that they're a really crappy model for
just about ANYTHING. We point to their bird-like shapes, at least on
some, and their feathers or proto feathers and even "Feather like
thingies" but all of that starts before the Jurassic!

Look at human origins, the number of different species, the arguments
for still missing/unknown ancestors... now turn the clock back some 200,000,000 years and suddenly people are seeing it all with absolute clarity? The ambiguity is gone? No more mysteries?

Bull & shit.

I've often argued -- wildly speculated -- that dinosaurs were secondarily flightless! Again, we already had the bird shaped bodies even before
the Jurassic, the origins of powered flight in vertebrates is unknown, pterosaurs were already taking to the air in the Triassic where, dagnabbit, that's where we point to for the first dinosaurs. And we know dinosaurs
and pterosaurs share a common ancestor, we think it was in the
Triassic so, how can it be earth shattering to suggest that maybe this
LCA was a pterosaur just as the last human/monkey LCA was a monkey?

But getting back to bipedalism...

So dinosaurs are worse than used kitty litter as a model here. The most obvious problem is the tail. They used it for balance.

If dinosaurs wanted larger heads, like for bigger mouths/teeth/horns, frills/cresst, they just grew larger tails as a counter weight, balance. Humans had to pursue a different adaptive strategy.

From my new book:

were dino-bird ancestors aquarboreal? & already BP?
"... Brian Ford (2019) beschrijft dezelfde patronen als Salibi en wij ondervinden, in hoe gevestigde academici, vakbladen en peer reviews onverwacht-nieuwe ideeën op allerlei manieren boycotten. Ford's "aquatic dinosaur hypothesis" (beter "floating
big dino"? zie reeds Coombs 1980) zegt dat de grootste dino's in de overvloedige ondiepe warme waters van het Krijt leefden (soms zoals krokodillen onzichtbaar net onder het wateroppervlak drijvend?), zie bv.
• hun vaak enorme gewicht, soms zoals vinvissen >100 ton of >20 olifanten,
• hun 'te' zwakke poten op het land voor hun zware lijf, zeker bij rennen of paren,
• hun zwakke fossiele voetsporen in de mud- of siltstone: erg gespatieerd en heel ondiep, soms enkel teentop- en bij lang'armige' Sauropoda enkel voorpootafdrukken,
• het ontbreken van fossiele sleepsporen van staarten (krokodillen aan land slepen hun zwemstaart over de grond),
• hun lange, stijve, zware (zwem-?)staart, en bij Sauropoda ook de zware hals, langer dan bij giraffen,
• hun vaak erg licht skelet (vgl. luchtholtes in vogelbotten?),
• hun 'warmbloedigheid' (het warme water, vaak ~34°C schat men, maakte zelfregelende endothermie zoals bij vogels en zoogdieren overbodig),
• bij Theropoda de korte armpjes en de 'krokodillensnuit' met de neusgaten bovenaan en kegelvormige tanden (T. rex) en soms visresten in de buik.
Drijvende-dino-ideeën ... sluiten aan bij Marcel Williams' hypothese over aquarboreale oerdino's in waterbossen:
- (semi)arboreale nazaten kozen de bomen of zelfs de lucht, glijdend of later vliegend,
- (semi)aquatische nazaten kozen het water en werden soms kolossaal,
- (semi)terrestrische nazaten kozen terra firma of een combinatie."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCGie_4khdY

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On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:38:09 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op zondag 10 juli 2022 om 22:09:53 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220707141832.htm

The problem with dinosaurs is that they're a really crappy model for
just about ANYTHING. We point to their bird-like shapes, at least on
some, and their feathers or proto feathers and even "Feather like thingies" but all of that starts before the Jurassic!

Arctic dinos had downy feathers for warmth.

Look at human origins, the number of different species, the arguments
for still missing/unknown ancestors... now turn the clock back some 200,000,000 years and suddenly people are seeing it all with absolute clarity? The ambiguity is gone? No more mysteries?

Bull & shit.

I've often argued -- wildly speculated -- that dinosaurs were secondarily flightless!

Everyone says that. But brontosaurs didn't fly. Sorry.

Again, we already had the bird shaped bodies even before

the Jurassic, the origins of powered flight in vertebrates is unknown, pterosaurs were already taking to the air in the Triassic where, dagnabbit,
that's where we point to for the first dinosaurs. And we know dinosaurs and pterosaurs share a common ancestor, we think it was in the
Triassic so, how can it be earth shattering to suggest that maybe this
LCA was a pterosaur just as the last human/monkey LCA was a monkey?

Brontosaurs did not derive from pterosaurs.

But getting back to bipedalism...

So dinosaurs are worse than used kitty litter as a model here. The most obvious problem is the tail. They used it for balance.

If dinosaurs wanted larger heads, like for bigger mouths/teeth/horns, frills/cresst, they just grew larger tails as a counter weight, balance. Humans had to pursue a different adaptive strategy.

From my new book:

were dino-bird ancestors aquarboreal? & already BP?

See video of "aquatic / aquarboreal" orangutan.

"... Brian Ford (2019) beschrijft dezelfde patronen als Salibi en wij ondervinden, in hoe gevestigde academici, vakbladen en peer reviews onverwacht-nieuwe ideeën op allerlei manieren boycotten. Ford's "aquatic dinosaur hypothesis" (beter "floating

big dino"? zie reeds Coombs 1980) zegt dat de grootste dino's in de overvloedige ondiepe warme waters van het Krijt leefden (soms zoals krokodillen onzichtbaar net onder het wateroppervlak drijvend?), zie bv.

• hun vaak enorme gewicht, soms zoals vinvissen >100 ton of >20 olifanten, • hun 'te' zwakke poten op het land voor hun zware lijf, zeker bij rennen of paren,
• hun zwakke fossiele voetsporen in de mud- of siltstone: erg gespatieerd en heel ondiep, soms enkel teentop- en bij lang'armige' Sauropoda enkel voorpootafdrukken,
• het ontbreken van fossiele sleepsporen van staarten (krokodillen aan land slepen hun zwemstaart over de grond),
• hun lange, stijve, zware (zwem-?)staart, en bij Sauropoda ook de zware hals, langer dan bij giraffen,
• hun vaak erg licht skelet (vgl. luchtholtes in vogelbotten?),
• hun 'warmbloedigheid' (het warme water, vaak ~34°C schat men, maakte zelfregelende endothermie zoals bij vogels en zoogdieren overbodig),
• bij Theropoda de korte armpjes en de 'krokodillensnuit' met de neusgaten bovenaan en kegelvormige tanden (T. rex) en soms visresten in de buik.
Drijvende-dino-ideeën ... sluiten aan bij Marcel Williams' hypothese over aquarboreale oerdino's in waterbossen:
- (semi)arboreale nazaten kozen de bomen of zelfs de lucht, glijdend of later vliegend,
- (semi)aquatische nazaten kozen het water en werden soms kolossaal,
- (semi)terrestrische nazaten kozen terra firma of een combinatie."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCGie_4khdY

Wait, are frogs aquarboreal too? OMG!!

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCGie_4khdY

I don't think it's as simple as this guy claims.

The teeth certainly scream "Aquatic." They appear to be fish-eating
teeth. And the crocodilian shape can't be a coincidence. And the
sail on it's back? Thermal regulation? Sure. Wind direction? Display?
Maybe it's helps to make the animal look larger and this was a
defense. But what was attacking it?

But what of the legs? Seems if this animal was in the water all day,
it's sail poking out, it's prey were land animals coming to water's
edge where those great hind legs could spring it out...

But it has the teeth of a fish eater...

Truth is "Dinosaurs" is probably a misnomer. Or no probably, it is
a misnomer. Saying that something is a dinosaur isn't like saying
something was a member of the genus Homo, or that something
was a hominid or an ape or even a primate. Saying something is
a dinosaur is like saying that something is a mammal.

Bats are mammals. Dolphins are mammals. Skunks are mammals.
Horses are mammals. Rhinos are mammals. Humans are mammals.

What I'm saying is that dinosaurs could be very, Very, VERY different
from each other. As different as one mammal is from another...

I've even heard is said, by learned men no less, that maybe there is
a divide here that we're missing with our language. That, "Dinosaur"
is way too generic. That, there are at least two groups of what we
call "Dinosaurs" that are about as different from each other as they
are from Reptiles...

I think that may be closer to the answer if not the answer.

But, in short, I don't think that all dinosaurs were aquatic. I very
much doubt that most more. The spinosaurus was CLEARLY
aquatic, but was it aquatic in the same sense that we mean when
we speak of Aquatic Ape, or was it more like a crocodile.

There actually HAVE BEEN land-based crocodiles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinkana

The basic crocodile form is not necessarily ill suited for land. But,
there's more to it than that in the case of spinosaurus for sure. We
just don't know how much more.

My two sticking points here:

#1. That niche was taken. Crocodiles existed and filled that
niche. There doesn't seem to be a void for spinosaur to fill.

#2. Those hind legs!

Superficially spinosaurs fit the bill of an aquatic dinosaur and
certainly must've been semi aquatic at the very least.



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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/690538691420110848

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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCGie_4khdY

Sorry for the double reply but there could be something truly funky
going on with this animal...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinkana

Look at the teeth. And I couldn't find a good picture of spinosaurus
teeth, not in all of my exhaustive 30 second search, but compare
the teeth of Mr. Land Crocodile there to this reproduction of a
spinosaurus:

https://assets.newatlas.com/dims4/default/dadce1b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x1440+0+0/resize/2666x1920!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewatlas-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F58%2F29%2F56724b7143f6a6c0f3fdb8ec32f4%2Fdepositphotos-8494738-l-
2015.jpg

Not a whole heck of a lot of difference...

Spinosaur very well could be a dinosaur that became aquatic only
to be caught in the act of evolving back to the land.

It's just a severely complex puzzle here, and nowhere near as
simplistic as the youtube video implies.

Like I said in my first reply; spinosaurus was clearly aquatic but
we really don't know if it was aquatic in the "Aquatic Ape" sense
or aquatic in the crocodile sense.








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https://jtem.tumblr.com/search/dinosaur/page/2

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