IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests: Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:42:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W), some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op woensdag 29 juni 2022 om 03:20:09 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:42:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E), c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W), some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op woensdag 29 juni 2022 om 03:20:09 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:42:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

Black Sea had freshwater.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:49:38 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

Black Sea had freshwater.

So??

Do you really belive they flew from the Black Sea to Africa??

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W), some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

Plate tectonics was excessively influential. I mean, it created the Quaternary Period,
sparked the Glacial/Interglacial cycle!

Oh I know you're speaking of other things but, it didn't stop there.




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688504308198735872

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:55:18 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:49:38 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

Black Sea had freshwater.

So??

Do you really belive they flew from the Black Sea to Africa??

The Black Sea was the refuge for European miocene apes whose population expanded to Bavaria, Bulgaria, Greece, Spain, Africa (via the Rift between Turkey & South Africa).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:43:43 AM UTC-4


, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:55:18 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:49:38 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

Black Sea had freshwater.

So??

Do you really belive they flew from the Black Sea to Africa??

The Black Sea was the refuge for European miocene apes whose population expanded to Bavaria, Bulgaria, Greece, Spain, Africa (via the Rift between Turkey & South Africa).

Tectonics started 3.2ba, I suspect due to cosmic impact

https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientists-pin-down-when-earths-crust-cracked-then-came-to-life-20210325/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:15:45 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:43:43 AM UTC-4
, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:55:18 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:49:38 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E),
c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W),
some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea, c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean: Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

No MSC? That's when the Med. boiled off but the Black Sea region was home to hominins.

Black or Red?
The Messinian Salinity Crisis (5.96-5.33 Ma) was why only Red Sea hominids survived?

Black Sea had freshwater.

So??

Do you really belive they flew from the Black Sea to Africa??

The Black Sea was the refuge for European miocene apes whose population expanded to Bavaria, Bulgaria, Greece, Spain, Africa (via the Rift between Turkey & South Africa).

Tectonics started 3.2ba, I suspect due to cosmic impact

https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientists-pin-down-when-earths-crust-cracked-then-came-to-life-20210325/

NASA: MOON ORIGIN 4.5BA, SOLAR SYSTEM ORIGIN 4.5BA (?!?)

The leading theory of the Moon's origin is that a Mars-sized body collided with Earth approximately 4.5 billion years ago, and the resulting debris from both Earth and the impactor accumulated to form our natural satellit

Our solar system formed about 4.5 billion years ago from a dense cloud of interstellar gas and dust. The cloud collapsed, possibly due to the shockwave of a nearby exploding star, called a supernova

WTF?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Op woensdag 29 juni 2022 om 00:42:45 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:

IMO, schematically:
c 30-25 Ma, India approached S-Asia: island arc fm = plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal Hominoidea, google "aquarboreal",
c 20 Ma, India further underneath S-Asia split great (W) & lesser apes (E), c 15 Ma, the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongids (E) & hominids (W), some hominids (Gorilla-Homo-Pan ancestors) colonized the Red Sea,
c 8 Ma, Rift fm, colonized by Gorilla, fossil subgenus Praeanthropus, afarensis->boisei->KWing.
c 5 Ma Zanclean flood opened the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean:
Pan went right (E-Africa): fossil subgenus Australopithecus africanus->robustus->KWing in // with Gorilla,
Homo went left initially (S-Asia)->H.erectus etc., google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

I now doubt the first 2 items:
-was it India approaching S-Asia + island fm that caused the OWM/ape split?? -was it India further underneath S-Asia that caused the great/lesser ape split??
Wasn't this approach too early to have caused these splits?

In any case, we have to explain how hominoids became to differ so drastically from OWMs:
-larger size (hylobatids still have unexpectedly long gestation),
-less lumbar vertebrae (7->5) + processus spinosi suggesting vertical stance, -tail loss (coccygal ingrowth in pelvis bottom),
-very broad thorax & sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia): lateral arm movements, -flaring ilia, suggesting frequent lateral thigh movements,
-etc.
The explanation is obviously aquarborealism (BP wading-climbing, but also surface-swimming??),
but where? and why then?
-- where: between where great & losser apes live? this suggests S- & perhaps SE-Asia,
in swamp forests, not unlikely in coastal forests? mangroves??
-- when: 30-25 Ma? does this fit the geological approach of India to S-Asia??

Was the great/lesser ape split caused by the 1st phase (c 20 Ma) of the "Two-step closure of the Miocene Indian Ocean Gateway to the Mediterranean
Or M Bialik cs 2019 Scientific Reports 9, 8842 open access
The Tethys Ocean was compartmentalized into the Mediterranean Sea & Indian Ocean during the early-Miocene ...
Here we present 2 new Nd isotope records from isolated carbonate platforms on both sides of the closing sea-way (Malta outcrop sampling, Maldives IODP Site U1468),
to constrain the evolution of past water mass exchange between the present day Med.Sea & Indian Ocean, via the Mesopotamian Seaway.
Combining these data with box modeling results indicates:
- water mass exchange was reduced by ~90 % in a first step c 20 Ma,
- the terminal closure of the sea-way then coincided with the sea-level drop, caused by the onset of permanent glaciation of Antarctica c 13.8 Ma. ..."

The hominid/pongid split was most likely caused by the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure,
but only the 2nd step? or both steps?

And the most likely explanation for
- the HP/G split c 8 Ma = Gorilla afarensis etc. following the Rift,
- the H/P split c 5 Ma = opening of the Red Sea into the Ind.Ocean:
--- Homo initially followed the S-Asian coasts of the Ind.Ocean,
--- Pan initially followed the E-African coasts + inland // Gorilla.
Obvious & simple IMO.

Why Homo (Ind.Ocean, c 2 Ma?) evolved from coastal-aquarboreal to littoral-diving is best explained by the Ice Ages?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Early hominoids were aquarboreal (arbor=tree, aqua=water):
bipedal waders-climbers in swamp forests:
apes evolved tail loss, centrally- rather than dorsally-placed spine, less lumbar & more sacral vertebrae, very wide pelvis-thorax-sternum + arms & legs laterally- rather than ventrally-placed etc.
Mio-Pliocene Hominoidea remained vertical+bipedal = aquarboreal IMO,
but early-Pleist.archaic Homo (H.erectus cs) became predom.shallow-diving (AAT s.s.), and late-Pleist.Homo (neand.->sapiens) became more wading->walking.

Hominoid apes = coastal forests originally:
- Homo/Pan c 5 Ma (Zanclean flood 5.3 Ma in Red Sea?? cf.Francesca:
at first they followed the Ind.Ocean coasts: Pan right = E.Afr.coasts, Homo left = S.Asian coasts?).
- HP/Gorilla c 8 Ma (Gorilla along the incipient E.Afr.Rift: afarensis Lucy etc.),
- hominids/pongids c 15 Ma (Mesopotamian Seaway closure separated Tethys Ocean into Tethys Sea = hominids + Ind.Ocean = pongids?),
- great/lesser apes c 20 Ma (India further underneath Eurasia separated gr.apes West & hylobatids East?),
- the OWM/ape split c 30 Ma (India approaching Eurasia created island archipels full of coastal forests, colonized by early apes?).

Simple, no?

"De Evolutie van de Mens.
Waarom wij rechtop lopen en kunnen spreken"
2022 Eburon Utrecht

:-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)