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  • Moerman P. In het spoor van de Neanderthal-mens. Boekerij, Baarn, 1977

    From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 27 10:55:54 2022
    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...

    Is there an online citation? PDF?




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/683253336492949504

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 27 14:27:47 2022
    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Mon Jun 27 15:55:32 2022
    On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:27:49 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?
    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Hauser even claimed that although the soft tissues of the skull had long since decayed, the outward shape of the nose could still be recognized by this pillow!
    The nostrils in Neanderthals should not have been pointing downwards, but much more forward!"
    Otto Hauser

    Note that this condition is most closely to typical West Central African noses, and completely different from "Roman nose", Greek nose", "Jewish/Arab nose", " Hindu nose" all of which orient nasal apertures downwards.

    https://pin.it/5whfyNO

    Gorillas have forward oriented nasal apertures, unlike chimp, orangutan, gibbons and most monkeys.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 27 16:22:17 2022
    Op dinsdag 28 juni 2022 om 00:55:35 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

    ...

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution), p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Hauser even claimed that although the soft tissues of the skull had long since decayed, the outward shape of the nose could still be recognized by this pillow!
    The nostrils in Neanderthals should not have been pointing downwards, but much more forward!"
    Otto Hauser
    Note that this condition is most closely to typical West Central African noses, and completely different from "Roman nose", Greek nose", "Jewish/Arab nose", " Hindu nose" all of which orient nasal apertures downwards.
    https://pin.it/5whfyNO

    Yes, possible. Most Hs have the nostrils downwards, but this might have differed from Hn.
    The nasal muscles might also have been different. Still uncertain.
    What is certain: our external nose was no adaptation for running after kudus... :-DDD

    Gorillas have forward oriented nasal apertures, unlike chimp, orangutan, gibbons and most monkeys.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Mon Jun 27 16:34:19 2022
    On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:22:20 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op dinsdag 28 juni 2022 om 00:55:35 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

    ...

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution), p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Hauser even claimed that although the soft tissues of the skull had long since decayed, the outward shape of the nose could still be recognized by this pillow!
    The nostrils in Neanderthals should not have been pointing downwards, but much more forward!"
    Otto Hauser
    Note that this condition is most closely to typical West Central African noses, and completely different from "Roman nose", Greek nose", "Jewish/Arab nose", " Hindu nose" all of which orient nasal apertures downwards.
    https://pin.it/5whfyNO
    Yes, possible.

    No, parsimonious. The long hooded nose is probably derived, due to climate: arid / montane habitat, where moisture is conserved.

    Most Hs have the nostrils downwards, but this might have differed from Hn.
    The nasal muscles might also have been different. Still uncertain.
    What is certain: our external nose was no adaptation for running after kudus... :-DDD

    San bushmen nasal aperture:
    https://images.app.goo.gl/HDhNhhfPYyP4NzyR9


    Gorillas have forward oriented nasal apertures, unlike chimp, orangutan, gibbons and most monkeys.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pandora@21:1/5 to littoral.homo@gmail.com on Tue Jun 28 12:25:26 2022
    On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com" <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Again, let's see what Hauser really said. The original paper
    "Découverte d’un squelette du type du Neandertal sous l’abri inférieur
    du Moustier" is available here: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5864483g/f16.image.r=hauser?rk=42918;4#

    On page 6 it reads:
    "le nez avait été protégé par deux morceaux de silex, dont l'un
    appliqué sur le dos du nez et l'autre.sur sa base. La position de ce
    dernier silex, qui est en forme de plaque, montre que les narines
    n'étaient pas dirigées de haut en bas, mais d'arrière en avant, avec
    une légère inclinaison de haut en bas."

    (the nose had been protected by two pieces of flint, one of which is
    applied to the back of the nose and the other on its base. The
    position of this last flint, which is plate-shaped, shows that the
    nostrils were not directed downwards, but forwards, with a slight tilt downwards.)

    In other words, Hauser did not infer the shape of the nose from an
    original soft tissue impression, but indirectly from the position of
    two pieces of flint.
    That's a highly questionable approach to soft tissue reconstruction.
    We don't even know if the flints were in their original position
    around the profile of the nose. Fig. 5 in that paper does not all
    justify any reconstruction of the nose on the basis of these flints
    (labeled 1 and 2), or the suggestion that the nostrils were pointing
    forward.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 28 13:02:35 2022
    Op dinsdag 28 juni 2022 om 01:34:22 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
    On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:22:20 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    ...

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution), p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Hauser even claimed that although the soft tissues of the skull had long since decayed, the outward shape of the nose could still be recognized by this pillow!
    The nostrils in Neanderthals should not have been pointing downwards, but much more forward!"
    Otto Hauser
    Note that this condition is most closely to typical West Central African noses, and completely different from "Roman nose", Greek nose", "Jewish/Arab nose", " Hindu nose" all of which orient nasal apertures downwards.
    https://pin.it/5whfyNO

    Yes, possible.

    No, parsimonious. The long hooded nose is probably derived, due to climate: arid / montane habitat, where moisture is conserved.
    Most Hs have the nostrils downwards, but this might have differed from Hn.
    The nasal muscles might also have been different. Still uncertain.
    What is certain: our external nose was no adaptation for running after kudus... :-DDD

    San bushmen nasal aperture:
    https://images.app.goo.gl/HDhNhhfPYyP4NzyR9

    Yes, very unlike the Hn nose.

    Gorillas have forward oriented nasal apertures, unlike chimp, orangutan, gibbons and most monkeys.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Tue Jun 28 13:48:42 2022
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:

    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    Of course I do, in as far as I can discern Dutch from Deutsch, but I've
    got to be me.

    I've only ever been to Amsterdam once, and I was shocked -- blown
    away -- by not only how many people spoke English but American
    English... not that ridiculous British thing. One women, working in a
    museum, sounded like she was from L.A. or someplace. I honestly
    thought she was an American and asked her where she was from!

    Anyway, long story short; I never needed to try to learn. I could order
    beer & pommes no problem, using English as God intended English
    to be used... American English!

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Now you're just showing off.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/686063009321336832

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 28 15:22:27 2022
    Op dinsdag 28 juni 2022 om 22:49:12 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

    P Moerman 1977 "Op het spoor van de Neanderthal-mens" Boekerij Baarn

    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    Of course I do, in as far as I can discern Dutch from Deutsch, but I've
    got to be me.
    I've only ever been to Amsterdam once, and I was shocked -- blown
    away -- by not only how many people spoke English but American
    English... not that ridiculous British thing. One women, working in a
    museum, sounded like she was from L.A. or someplace. I honestly
    thought she was an American and asked her where she was from!
    Anyway, long story short; I never needed to try to learn. I could order
    beer & pommes no problem, using English as God intended English
    to be used... American English!

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Now you're just showing off.

    No, no, I haven't read these, but Moerman has read them: it's from the "Geraadpleegde literatuur" in the book.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to Pandora on Sun Jul 3 22:08:21 2022
    Pandora wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com" <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    I have this book at home (>>100 books on primate/human evolution).
    p.80-81:
    "... Zelfs beweerde Hauser dat, hoewel de weke delen van de schedel natuurlijk allang vergaan waren, de uiterlijke vorm van de neus door dit kussen nog herkend kon worden!
    De neusgaten zouden bij de Neanderthaler niet naar beneden, doch veel meer naar voren gericht moeten zijn geweest!"
    Otto Hauser
    -1917 "Der Mensch vor 100.000 Jahren" Brockhaus Leipzig,
    -1922 "Ins Paradies des Urmenschen" Hoffmann & Campe Hamburg,
    -1927 "De Erde Eiszeit und Sindflut" Stilke Berlin.

    Again, let's see what Hauser really said. The original paper
    "Découverte d’un squelette du type du Neandertal sous l’abri inférieur du Moustier" is available here: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5864483g/f16.image.r=hauser?rk=42918;4#

    On page 6 it reads:
    "le nez avait été protégé par deux morceaux de silex, dont l'un
    appliqué sur le dos du nez et l'autre.sur sa base. La position de ce
    dernier silex, qui est en forme de plaque, montre que les narines
    n'étaient pas dirigées de haut en bas, mais d'arrière en avant, avec
    une légère inclinaison de haut en bas."

    (the nose had been protected by two pieces of flint, one of which is
    applied to the back of the nose and the other on its base. The
    position of this last flint, which is plate-shaped, shows that the
    nostrils were not directed downwards, but forwards, with a slight tilt downwards.)

    In other words, Hauser did not infer the shape of the nose from an
    original soft tissue impression, but indirectly from the position of
    two pieces of flint.
    That's a highly questionable approach to soft tissue reconstruction.
    We don't even know if the flints were in their original position
    around the profile of the nose. Fig. 5 in that paper does not all
    justify any reconstruction of the nose on the basis of these flints
    (labeled 1 and 2), or the suggestion that the nostrils were pointing
    forward.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Sun Sep 3 23:57:53 2023
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 19:55:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

    I can't find a copy, not even is Japanese or
    Latin or whatever it is...
    Is there an online citation? PDF?

    Don't you see it's Dutch??

    No, he can't, he isn't that bright, doesn't even know
    about google translate. Such is the kind of support aa
    attracts...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 5 12:43:15 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    [...]

    You are profoundly stupid. You have reading comprehension,
    can't follow a thread -- as you demonstrate now -- and carry
    on as if this is clever.



    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/727585508731092992

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 04:50:56 2023
    Op dinsdag 5 september 2023 om 21:43:17 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    his usual nonsense.

    You are profoundly stupid. You have reading comprehension,
    can't follow a thread -- as you demonstrate now -- and carry
    on as if this is clever.

    Try to neglect the idiot, JTEM, let him run after his kudus with his flat feet. :-D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Tue Sep 12 22:26:54 2023
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op dinsdag 5 september 2023 om 21:43:17 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    his usual nonsense.

    You are profoundly stupid. You have reading comprehension,
    can't follow a thread -- as you demonstrate now -- and carry
    on as if this is clever.

    Try to neglect the idiot, JTEM, let him run after his kudus with his flat feet. :-D


    Your buddy believes in space aliens and Nostradamus.

    That's the kind of whacko aa attracts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Thu Sep 14 05:37:58 2023
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    Your buddy believes in space aliens and Nostradamus.

    Lol! "Everyone knows Nostradamus never existed!"

    You are such a fucking idiot!

    "He thinks in this galaxy, with anywhere from 800 million
    on up into BILLIONS of planets must have more than one
    with life on them! How unscientific is THAT! Everyone
    knows that God only created life on the earth..."

    You're an emotionally disturbed troll acting out.




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/728166607418949632

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)