ape+human evolution:
- 25 Ma India aproached Eurasia = island arc formation, full of coastal forests,
the first Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal, cf.+-Nasalis in mangroves: Hominoidea = Latisternalia:
larger body, tail reduction, broad body & breast-bone, vertical wading-climbing "bipedal", longer arms...
- 20 Ma India further under Eurasia = hominoid split: lesser apes E, great apes W:
great apes colonized Tethys-sea (Medit.) coastal forests: W-Asia, Europe, Arabia, N.Africa...
- 15 Ma Mesopotamian Seaway closure: split pongids E (e.g. Sivapith, Gigantopith...), hominids W (e.g. dryopiths),
- Red Sea formation, colonized by HPG-LCA (hominids s.s.),
- 8 Ma begin E.African Rift, colonized by Gorilla (->afarensis->boisei->gorillas), leaving HP in the Red Sea,
- 5 Ma Zanclean mega-flood re-filled the Med.Sea + opening red Sea into Ind.Ocean:
Pan went right, initially along E.Afr.coasts (->africanus->robustus->chimps (// gorillas)),
Homo went left, initially along S.Asian coasts (Java, Flores...) ->H.erectus Ice Ages = frequent shallow-diving for shellfish: fur loss, SC fat, large brain (DHA), POS, stone tools, flat feet etc.etc.
Mid-Late-Pleistocene H.neand., sapiens...: wading = very long legs, loss of platycephaly, less flaring ilia, etc.
ape+human evolution:
- 25 Ma India aproached Eurasia = island arc formation, full of coastal forests,
the first Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal
Pan went right, initially along E.Afr.coasts (->africanus->robustus->chimps (// gorillas)),
Homo went left, initially along S.Asian coasts (Java, Flores...) ->H.erectus Ice Ages = frequent shallow-diving for shellfish: fur loss, SC fat, large brain (DHA),
POS, stone tools, flat feet etc.etc.
littor...@gmail.com wrote:
ape+human evolution:
- 25 Ma India aproached Eurasia = island arc formation, full of coastal forests,A classic a-priori assumption.
the first Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal
Not that we don't already know that Wiki sucks eggs but, read the article on "Catarrhini."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catarrhini
It places the rise of "New Wold Monkeys" about 6 million years before apes, even
though New World Monkeys currently date prior to Old World Monkeys....
Whatever the reality -- and you're NEVER going to read it on Wiki -- they didn't
flow between Africa, Eurasia and the Americas on airliners. There were either land bridges or the grand daddy of all "Aquatic" primates was around some tens of millions of years ago.
Pan went right, initially along E.Afr.coasts (->africanus->robustus->chimps (// gorillas)),"Out of Asia."
Homo went left, initially along S.Asian coasts (Java, Flores...) ->H.erectus Ice Ages = frequent shallow-diving for shellfish: fur loss, SC fat, large brain (DHA),
POS, stone tools, flat feet etc.etc.
Quite frankly, the only reason why everyone isn't talking about Out of Asia is because
of two massive natural cullings that used Sandaland or vicinity as Ground-Zero.
The first was one or more meteorite impacts about 800,000 years ago.
Nasty business, meteorites. They not only strike with insane amounts of energy but
all that energy is released pretty much instantly, while Super Volcanic eruptions
probably takes weeks if not longer.
The second earth-changing event to hit that Asian population in the small of the
back was Toba. If Yellowstone explodes tomorrow -- and it's active right now --
it'll release a force equal to about 50 Krakatoa eruptions. When Toba erupted over
70k years ago, right there in Sundaland, it released the energy of about 125 Krakatoa
eruptions.
Bad. Scene.
If I said it took a thousand years for the northern hemisphere to fully recover it would
mean I was speaking conservatively...
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/685608769984544768
ape+human evolution:
- 25 Ma India aproached Eurasia = island arc formation, full of coastal forests,
the first Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal
A classic a-priori assumption.
Not that we don't already know that Wiki sucks eggs but, read the article on "Catarrhini." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catarrhini
It places the rise of "New Wold Monkeys" about 6 million years before apes, even
though New World Monkeys currently date prior to Old World Monkeys.... Whatever the reality -- and you're NEVER going to read it on Wiki -- they didn't
flow between Africa, Eurasia and the Americas on airliners. There were either land bridges or the grand daddy of all "Aquatic" primates was around some tens of millions of years ago.
Pan went right, initially along E.Afr.coasts (->africanus->robustus->chimps (// gorillas)),
Homo went left, initially along S.Asian coasts (Java, Flores...) ->H.erectus Ice Ages = frequent shallow-diving for shellfish: fur loss, SC fat, large brain (DHA),
POS, stone tools, flat feet etc.etc.
"Out of Asia."
Quite frankly, the only reason why everyone isn't talking about Out of Asia is because
of two massive natural cullings that used Sandaland or vicinity as Ground-Zero.
The 1st was one or more meteorite impacts about 800,000 years ago.
Nasty business, meteorites. They not only strike with insane amounts of energy but
all that energy is released pretty much instantly, while Super Volcanic eruptions
probably takes weeks if not longer.
The 2nd earth-changing event to hit that Asian population in the small of the back was Toba. If Yellowstone explodes tomorrow -- and it's active right now --
it'll release a force equal to about 50 Krakatoa eruptions. When Toba erupted over
70 ka, right there in Sundaland, it released the energy of about 125 Krakatoa eruptions.
Bad. Scene.
If I said it took a thousand years for the northern hemisphere to fully recover it would
mean I was speaking conservatively...
ape+human evolution:
- 25 Ma India aproached Eurasia = island arc formation, full of coastal forests,
the first Catarrhini that reached these islands became aquarboreal, cf.+-Nasalis in mangroves: Hominoidea = Latisternalia:
larger body, tail reduction, broad body & breast-bone, vertical wading-climbing "bipedal", longer arms...
- 20 Ma India further under Eurasia = hominoid split: lesser apes E, great apes W:
great apes colonized Tethys-sea (Medit.) coastal forests: W-Asia, Europe, Arabia, N.Africa...
- 15 Ma Mesopotamian Seaway closure: split pongids E (e.g. Sivapith, Gigantopith...), hominids W (e.g. dryopiths),
- Red Sea formation, colonized by HPG-LCA (hominids s.s.),
- 8 Ma begin E.African Rift, colonized by Gorilla (->afarensis->boisei->gorillas), leaving HP in the Red Sea,
- 5 Ma Zanclean mega-flood re-filled the Med.Sea + opening red Sea into Ind.Ocean:
Pan went right, initially along E.Afr.coasts (->africanus->robustus->chimps (// gorillas)),
Homo went left, initially along S.Asian coasts (Java, Flores...) ->H.erectus Ice Ages = frequent shallow-diving for shellfish: fur loss, SC fat, large brain (DHA), POS, stone tools, flat feet etc.etc.
Mid-Late-Pleistocene H.neand., sapiens...: wading = very long legs, loss of platycephaly, less flaring ilia, etc.
Wading => diving => wading
Heron => penguin => heron.
Platyrrhini have nothing to do with my scenario:
Paranoia will destroy ya.
littor...@gmail.com wrote:
Platyrrhini have nothing to do with my scenario:But they do. They really do.
Monkeys appear on both sides of a very great ocean. And they never crossed that ocean on commercial airliners. So there was either a land bridge that nobody has been able to identify/confirm or there were already "Aquatic" primates 25 million years ago AT THE VERY LEAST, and at least 35 million years OR LONGER if you're going to posit an African origin of Monkeys.
So the Aquatic Ape hypothesis is actually far superior than savanna nonsense for another reason. And that is the savanna idiots pretend that one toe touched
a savanna and their bodies, brains & culture were transformed. Aquatic Ape, on
the other hand, is dependent open a very long process where populations took to the coastal environment many times, becoming a little bit better adapted to
the environment/lifestyles across eons, across species and even from one genus to the next, finally execrating 3 or 4 million years ago leading to it's peak
with erectus.
....the final destinations, so to speak.
But this is part of your puzzle. Whether old world monkeys arose first of the fact that our oldest monkeys are New World is indicative to their primacy, they had to get across the ocean. They had to island jump or live on water's edge and be dragged out to sea by the tide or a wave....
Aquatic Ape has some mighty deep roots.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/685608769984544768
Platyrrhini have nothing to do with my scenario:
But they do. They really do. And that's what I'm trying to get you to see:
Monkeys appear on both sides of a very great ocean. And they never crossed that ocean on commercial airliners. So there was either a land bridge that nobody has been able to identify/confirm or there were already "Aquatic" primates 25 million years ago AT THE VERY LEAST, and at least 35 million years OR LONGER if you're going to posit an African origin of Monkeys.
So the Aquatic Ape hypothesis is actually far superior than savanna nonsense for another reason. And that is the savanna idiots pretend that one toe touched
a savanna and their bodies, brains & culture were transformed. Aquatic Ape, on
the other hand, is dependent open a very long process where populations took to the coastal environment many times, becoming a little bit better adapted to
the environment/lifestyles across eons, across species and even from one genus to the next, finally execrating 3 or 4 million years ago leading to it's peak
with erectus.
....the final destinations, so to speak.
But this is part of your puzzle. Whether old world monkeys arose first of the fact that our oldest monkeys are New World is indicative to their primacy, they had to get across the ocean. They had to island jump or live on water's edge and be dragged out to sea by the tide or a wave....
Aquatic Ape has some mighty deep roots.
S.Afr.apiths africanus->robustus (// E.Afr.apiths afarensis->boisei):from late-Pliocene "gracile" (africanus//afarensis) to early-Pleist."robust" (robustus//boisei):
Both Old & New World monkeys are monkeys = arboreal:
without the aquarboreal hominoid innovations, see above.
Both Old & New World monkeys are monkeys = arboreal:
without the aquarboreal hominoid innovations, see above.
It's plausible, one might argue likely, that the littoral monkey is what caused the monkey/ape split in the first place.
Op donderdag 2 juni 2022 om 06:17:49 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:climbing arms overhead in forest swamps, cf. some parallels in Nasalis (mangrove monkey): rel.large for a monkey, with very short tail & big nose, often bipedally wading + climbing arms overhead, sometimes swimming at the surface (no diving AFAIK).
Both Old & New World monkeys are monkeys = arboreal:
without the aquarboreal hominoid innovations, see above.
It's plausible, one might argue likely, that the littoral monkey is what caused the monkey/ape split in the first place.
Yes, the coastal forest (mangrove? 25 Ma) not unlikely caused the typically ape features: vertical spine + less lumbar & less coccygal vertebrae, broad sternum (Latisternalia) & thorax, broad pelvis + flaring ilia, very long arms, wading upright &
Op vrijdag 3 juni 2022 om 01:00:09 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:climbing arms overhead in forest swamps, cf. some parallels in Nasalis (mangrove monkey): rel.large for a monkey, with very short tail & big nose, often bipedally wading + climbing arms overhead, sometimes swimming at the surface (no diving AFAIK).
Op donderdag 2 juni 2022 om 06:17:49 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
Both Old & New World monkeys are monkeys = arboreal:
without the aquarboreal hominoid innovations, see above.
It's plausible, one might argue likely, that the littoral monkey is what caused the monkey/ape split in the first place.
Yes, the coastal forest (mangrove? 25 Ma) not unlikely caused the typically ape features: vertical spine + less lumbar & less coccygal vertebrae, broad sternum (Latisternalia) & thorax, broad pelvis + flaring ilia, very long arms, wading upright &
What caused the difference between broad & small noses?Monkeys are from america (maga).
What was more primitive: the platy- or the catarrhine condition??
Has it indeed (as you think?) something to do with swimming??
Monkeys are from america
Apes are from the ocean.
Everone knows that.
https://www.washington.edu/news/2021/02/24/earliest-primate-fossils/
So the oldest monkey fossils are found in the Americas, the exact same
place that the oldest primate fossil was found...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_gigantism
It's often been argued that insular gigantism precedes insular dwarfism.
That, cut off from natural predators, the species effectively competes against itself. The theory goes that eventually the limited resources of
the island get scarce so "Big" suddenly becomes a detriment and that's
when insular dwarfism kicks in. But in the island scenario, instead of starving out the bigger size they instead ADAPT. They find a new food: Seafood.
So, instantly, a scarcity becomes an abundance...
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