• oi big noise

    From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to Pandora on Tue Aug 31 23:44:14 2021
    Pandora wrote:
    On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT), "C. H. Engelbrecht"
    fredag den 23. juli 2021 kl. 16.36.16 UTC+2 skrev Pandora:
    On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:23:26 -0700 (PDT), "C. H. Engelbrecht"
    fredag den 23. juli 2021 kl. 16.12.42 UTC+2 skrev Pandora:
    On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 06:53:21 -0700 (PDT), "C. H. Engelbrecht"
    fredag den 23. juli 2021 kl. 15.23.53 UTC+2 skrev Pandora:
    On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 05:26:44 -0700 (PDT), "C. H. Engelbrecht"
    fredag den 23. juli 2021 kl. 07.13.26 UTC+2 skrev Primum Sapienti: >>>>>>>>> littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    aquatic-human-ancestor.org/anatomy/nose.html

    https://imgshare.io/image/verhaegen1985.NnU1uX

    Show us the snorkel...

    https://www.uwphotographyguide.com/sites/default/files/rajan_elephant_swimming_7.jpg

    36 million years later.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByG8gZ2lvd4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5PZ5Zpk2rc

    No such derived character in hominids.

    Except the first inkling of it: A hooded nose.

    https://previews.123rf.com/images/imagehitevo/imagehitevo1007/imagehitevo100701279/7445859-man-in-pool-head-half-submerged-in-water.jpg
    See how, despite a prominent inflexible nose, his nostrlis are
    pointing downward and are still submerged. Not much use as a snorkel, >>>>> not even incipient.
    Tapirs has begun the same journey, for the same reason.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/wild-tapir-swimming-river-260nw-558141229.jpg
    Hence my earlier link:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5PZ5Zpk2rc

    Nothing like humans.
    Lotta overlooked past semiaquatics in the mammalian clade.

    https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z9410063/800wm
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nJl5fbG41XY/maxresdefault.jpg
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/15/3f/8d153ff0e6899dd63feb55a02471c7e8.png
    https://www.gardsfruene.no/assets/components/phpthumbof/cache/gris-1.e3989a41acb0c6223ad3fc4542e3ac48.jpg
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/30E0/production/_118921521_silverbullet2-1.jpg
    All with a rather flexible rostrum that is a combination of nose and >>>>> musculature of the upper lip. Nothing like humans.

    They're the odd-toes that went into water, we're the simian that went into water. Evolved similar but different solutions for the same purpose, to keep splashes from entering cranial cavities.

    Ever seen the only semiaquatic monkey out there?
    https://images.newscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/e45c8h.jpg
    https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/proboscis-monkey-picture-id927646812?k=6&m=927646812&s=170667a&w=0&h=r_Qa4R6kXFQnDXXzhOWzgzPqEwFbpILirf8I8xyZpwI=
    https://www.naturepl.com/cache/pcache2/01590757.jpg
    Notice how that nasal appendage is sexually dimorphic, immobile, and
    in males pointing in the wrong direction. It doesn't function al all
    like a snorkel.
    Better example, amphibious crab-eating macaque:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beEAKVZsJe8

    No snorkel required.

    They haven't fished for two million years.

    Nor have we, by chasing them underwater.
    Fishing likely originated opportunisticallly in shallow waters at lake
    edge and floodplain: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004724848471044X

    "In the floodplains, fish often spawn in shallow waters, and capture
    without additional equipment is easier. Siluriforms, particularly
    clariids, spawn in waters which are only a few centimeters deep. They
    are therefore very easy to procure, and many reports exist of fishers
    taking Clarias in large numbers often with only bare hands as they
    spawn at first rains." (p.232).

    Consider they'd also be very visible. Contrast with being on the shore and looking for fish.

    No need for snorkels.

    But considerable bending over...

    Theirs is a recent behavioural divergence within the macacque group.

    Given the divergence age of Macaca fascicularus from other Macaca we
    may assume that the behaviour is as old as the origin of this species
    (3.42 (2.83-4.01) Ma): https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-015-1437-0


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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 1 03:38:07 2021
    Op woensdag 1 september 2021 om 07:44:16 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:


    No need for snorkels.

    But considerable bending over...

    OI, BIG NOSE !
    New Scientist 2782 p 69 Lastword 16 October 2010

    Why do humans evolve external noses that don’t seem to serve any useful purpose – our smelling sensors are inside the head. Our nose is vulnerable to damage, and the majority of primates and other mammals manage with relatively flat faces.
    Traditional explanations are that the nose protects against dry air, hot air, cold air, dusty air, whatever air, but most savannah mammals have no external noses, and polar animals such as arctic foxes or hares tend to evolve shorter extremities
    including flatter noses (Allen’s Rule), not larger as the Neanderthal protruding nose.

    The answer isn’t so difficult if we simply consider humans like other mammals.

    An external nose is seen in elephant seals, hooded seals, tapirs, elephants, swine and, among primates, in the mangrove-dwelling proboscis monkeys. Various, often mutually compatible functions, have been proposed, such as sexual display (in male hooded
    and elephant seals or proboscis monkeys), manipulation of food (in elephants, tapirs and swine), a snorkel (elephants, proboscis monkeys) and as a nose-closing aid during diving (in most of these animals). These mammals spend a lot of time at the margins
    of land and water. Possible functions of an external nose in creatures evolving into aquatic ones are obvious and match those listed above in many cases. They can initially act as a nose closure, a snorkel, to keep water out, to dig in wet soil for food,
    and so on. Afterwards, these external noses can also become co-opted for other functions, such as sexual display (visual as well as auditory) in hooded and elephant seals and proboscis monkeys.

    But what does this have to do with human evolution?

    The earliest known Homo fossils outside Africa – such as those at Mojokerto in Java and Dmanisi in Georgia – are about 1.8 million years old. The easiest way for them to have spread to other continents, and to islands such as Java, is along the
    coasts, and from there inland along rivers. During the glacial periods of the Pleistocene – the ice age cycles that ran from about 1.8 million to 12,000 years ago – most coasts were about 100 metres below the present-day sea level, so we don’t know
    whether or when Homo populations lived there. But coasts and riversides are full of shellfish and other foods that are easily collected and digested by smart, handy and tool-using “apes”, and are rich in potential brain-boosting nutrients such as
    docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

    If Pleistocene Homo spread along the coasts, beachcombing, wading and diving for seafoods as Polynesian islanders still do, this could explain why Homo erectus evolved larger brains (aided by DHA) and larger noses (because of their part-time diving).
    This littoral intermezzo could help to explain not only why we like to have our holidays at tropical beaches, eating shrimps and coconuts, but also why we became fat and furless bipeds with long legs, flat feet, large brains and big noses.

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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Sat Sep 4 23:03:20 2021
    Primum Sapienti wrote:
    C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:

    Tapirs has begun the same journey, for the same reason.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/wild-tapir-swimming-river-260nw-558141229.jpg

    Hence my earlier link:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5PZ5Zpk2rc

    Nothing like humans.
    Lotta overlooked past semiaquatics in the mammalian clade.

    https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z9410063/800wm
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nJl5fbG41XY/maxresdefault.jpg
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/15/3f/8d153ff0e6899dd63feb55a02471c7e8.png

    https://www.gardsfruene.no/assets/components/phpthumbof/cache/gris-1.e3989a41acb0c6223ad3fc4542e3ac48.jpg

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/30E0/production/_118921521_silverbullet2-1.jpg

    All with a rather flexible rostrum that is a combination of nose and >>>>> musculature of the upper lip. Nothing like humans.

    They're the odd-toes that went into water, we're the simian that went
    into water. Evolved similar but different solutions for the same
    purpose, to keep splashes from entering cranial cavities.

    Ever seen the only semiaquatic monkey out there?
    https://images.newscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/e45c8h.jpg
    https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/proboscis-monkey-picture-id927646812?k=6&m=927646812&s=170667a&w=0&h=r_Qa4R6kXFQnDXXzhOWzgzPqEwFbpILirf8I8xyZpwI=

    https://www.naturepl.com/cache/pcache2/01590757.jpg
    Notice how that nasal appendage is sexually dimorphic, immobile, and
    in males pointing in the wrong direction. It doesn't function al all
    like a snorkel.
    Better example, amphibious crab-eating macaque:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beEAKVZsJe8

    No snorkel required.

    They haven't fished for two million years. Theirs is a recent
    behavioural divergence within the macacque group.


    Two million years? Where did that figure come from?

    Well?

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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Sat Sep 4 23:02:39 2021
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op woensdag 1 september 2021 om 07:44:16 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:


    No need for snorkels.

    But considerable bending over...

    OI, BIG NOSE !



    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21245757_Aquatic_Ape_Theory_and_fossil_hominids
    AQUATIC APE THEORY AND FOSSIL HOMINIDS
    M. J. B. VERHAEGEN Medical Hypotheses 35: 108-114 (1991)

    "In a Neandertal swimming on his back, the large nose with distal nostrils
    and the
    protruding midface surrounded by large air sinuses functioned as a snorkel."

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 5 10:21:33 2021
    AQUATIC APE THEORY AND FOSSIL HOMINIDS
    MJB VERHAEGEN 1991 Medical Hypotheses 35: 108-114
    "In a Neandertal swimming on his back, the large nose with distal nostrils & and the
    protruding mid-face surrounded by large air sinuses functioned as a snorkel."

    Obvious:
    only complete idiots don't understand this:

    OI, BIG NOSE !
    New Scientist 2782 p 69 Lastword 16 October 2010

    Why do humans evolve external noses that don’t seem to serve any useful purpose – our smelling sensors are inside the head. Our nose is vulnerable to damage, and the majority of primates and other mammals manage with relatively flat faces.
    Traditional explanations are that the nose protects against dry air, hot air, cold air, dusty air, whatever air, but most savannah mammals have no external noses, and polar animals such as arctic foxes or hares tend to evolve shorter extremities
    including flatter noses (Allen’s Rule), not larger as the Neanderthal protruding nose.

    The answer isn’t so difficult if we simply consider humans like other mammals.

    An external nose is seen in elephant seals, hooded seals, tapirs, elephants, swine and, among primates, in the mangrove-dwelling proboscis monkeys. Various, often mutually compatible functions, have been proposed, such as sexual display (in male hooded
    and elephant seals or proboscis monkeys), manipulation of food (in elephants, tapirs and swine), a snorkel (elephants, proboscis monkeys) and as a nose-closing aid during diving (in most of these animals). These mammals spend a lot of time at the margins
    of land and water. Possible functions of an external nose in creatures evolving into aquatic ones are obvious and match those listed above in many cases. They can initially act as a nose closure, a snorkel, to keep water out, to dig in wet soil for food,
    and so on. Afterwards, these external noses can also become co-opted for other functions, such as sexual display (visual as well as auditory) in hooded and elephant seals and proboscis monkeys.

    But what does this have to do with human evolution?

    The earliest known Homo fossils outside Africa – such as those at Mojokerto in Java and Dmanisi in Georgia – are about 1.8 million years old. The easiest way for them to have spread to other continents, and to islands such as Java, is along the
    coasts, and from there inland along rivers. During the glacial periods of the Pleistocene – the ice age cycles that ran from about 1.8 million to 12,000 years ago – most coasts were about 100 metres below the present-day sea level, so we don’t know
    whether or when Homo populations lived there. But coasts and riversides are full of shellfish and other foods that are easily collected and digested by smart, handy and tool-using “apes”, and are rich in potential brain-boosting nutrients such as
    docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

    If Pleistocene Homo spread along the coasts, beachcombing, wading and diving for seafoods as Polynesian islanders still do, this could explain why Homo erectus evolved larger brains (aided by DHA) and larger noses (because of their part-time diving).
    This littoral intermezzo could help to explain not only why we like to have our holidays at tropical beaches, eating shrimps and coconuts, but also why we became fat and furless bipeds with long legs, flat feet, large brains and big noses.

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 5 11:36:02 2021
    Op vrijdag 23 juli 2021 om 14:26:45 UTC+2 schreef C. H. Engelbrecht:

    :-) Thanks, Chris.
    The comparative evidence is clear, google "Oi, big nose!"
    And there are still idiots who believe we evolved external noses to run after antelopes...


    https://imgshare.io/image/verhaegen1985.NnU1uX https://www.uwphotographyguide.com/sites/default/files/rajan_elephant_swimming_7.jpg
    36 million years later.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByG8gZ2lvd4

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