• Can we INFER the invention of shoes?

    From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 23 21:26:25 2022
    https://youtu.be/CA3lIuN_zVE?t=82

    The topic of the video may be mildly interesting,
    though I'm certain that melting & casting Obsidian
    was *Oodles* beyond our early ancestors, but
    look at that knife he's holding!

    It's precisely what I have speculated about! It seems
    like early man would have been building such tools,
    and all we'd find remaining in the archaeological
    record is some crudely knapped off cutting blade(s).

    But, you know, flint can be sharper than steel, and
    obsidian is sharper than even flint. So if they were
    knapping off sharper-than-razor flakes, does that
    not imply foot protection?

    You know, to keep from these shards tearing into
    their vulnerable flesh and producing all kinds of
    bloody, infectious wounds?

    I mean, does it sort of kind of almost tell us they
    had shoes or something maybe akin to shoes?

    Hmm?





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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Thu Mar 24 02:43:24 2022
    On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 12:26:26 AM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    https://youtu.be/CA3lIuN_zVE?t=82

    The topic of the video may be mildly interesting,
    though I'm certain that melting & casting Obsidian
    was *Oodles* beyond our early ancestors, but
    look at that knife he's holding!

    It's precisely what I have speculated about! It seems
    like early man would have been building such tools,
    and all we'd find remaining in the archaeological
    record is some crudely knapped off cutting blade(s).

    But, you know, flint can be sharper than steel, and
    obsidian is sharper than even flint. So if they were
    knapping off sharper-than-razor flakes, does that
    not imply foot protection?

    You know, to keep from these shards tearing into
    their vulnerable flesh and producing all kinds of
    bloody, infectious wounds?

    I mean, does it sort of kind of almost tell us they
    had shoes or something maybe akin to shoes?

    Hmm?





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/679136273466900480
    How could they shave if their toes are shod?

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 24 15:35:11 2022
    Shush! Adults are talking. Go play in your room.




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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Mon May 16 12:47:00 2022
    I Envy JTEM wrote:

    https://youtu.be/CA3lIuN_zVE?t=82

    The topic of the video may be mildly interesting,
    though I'm certain that melting & casting Obsidian
    was *Oodles* beyond our early ancestors, but
    look at that knife he's holding!

    It's precisely what I have speculated about! It seems
    like early man would have been building such tools,
    and all we'd find remaining in the archaeological
    record is some crudely knapped off cutting blade(s).

    But, you know, flint can be sharper than steel, and
    obsidian is sharper than even flint. So if they were
    knapping off sharper-than-razor flakes, does that
    not imply foot protection?

    Not necessarily, if they already had foot wear of some kind.

    You know, to keep from these shards tearing into
    their vulnerable flesh and producing all kinds of
    bloody, infectious wounds?

    I mean, does it sort of kind of almost tell us they
    had shoes or something maybe akin to shoes?

    No. Have you ever watched someone knapping, or at least a video or two?
    Here's
    a decent one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJKqNjXDkU
    Living in the Stone Age: Flint Knapping (making flint tools)

    Pretty much sitting down. Foot wear with this activity would not be needed
    and
    in any case these are cultures that probably went bare foot most or all
    the time
    anyway if they had foot wear. You can still see that in cultures around
    the world
    today. Of course, there may be an economic aspect, as in affordability.
    Feet get
    toughened up from years of going bare foot and of course, if they're
    capable of
    knapping then they're capable of watching where they're stepping.

    From 2008 (there might be something more recent but this will do)

    https://refs.ahcuah.com/papers/trinkaus2.pdf
    Anatomical evidence for the antiquity of human footwear:
    Tianyuan and Sunghir

    Of course, moving into colder climes like Siberia would almost guarantee
    foot wear of
    some kind. Something the AA crowd won't like is that leather from hunting
    would be involved (as opposed to mv's usual bleat that only drowned
    animals would be available).

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Tue May 17 14:25:41 2022
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    But, you know, flint can be sharper than steel, and
    obsidian is sharper than even flint. So if they were
    knapping off sharper-than-razor flakes, does that
    not imply foot protection?

    Not necessarily, if they already had foot wear of some kind.

    The real question here is if they could have been knapping all
    these hyper sharp bits onto the ground if they didn't have
    shoes?

    Whether they developed foot coverings first or came up with
    them in response to shredding their feet & toes it all adds up
    to the same thing: Shoes!

    You know, to keep from these shards tearing into
    their vulnerable flesh and producing all kinds of
    bloody, infectious wounds?

    I mean, does it sort of kind of almost tell us they
    had shoes or something maybe akin to shoes?

    No. Have you ever watched someone knapping, or at least a video or two? Here's
    a decent one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJKqNjXDkU

    He's not naked and he is wearing shoes. Boots, I think.

    Pretty much sitting down. Foot wear with this activity would not be needed

    He's wearing it. And a shirt. And pants. Have you seen any videos of naked, barefoot people knapping sharper-than-a-razors stone?

    and
    in any case these are cultures that probably went bare foot most or all
    the time

    But that's an assumption. It's what is called an a-priori assumption. It
    could evenly be called a bias: The human element. Science exists to
    eliminate exactly that.

    "Does the fact that people were knapping super sharp stones imply that
    they had shoes/foot protection?"

    Well, the video posted here is certainly consistent with this notion, as
    the man is clearly not barefoot while knapping.

    Of course, moving into colder climes like Siberia would almost guarantee
    foot wear of
    some kind.

    Of course /Reaching/ those colder climates would guarantee Aquatic Ape,
    as we all agree on "Coastal Dispersal."





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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Wed May 25 23:13:20 2022
    I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    But, you know, flint can be sharper than steel, and
    obsidian is sharper than even flint. So if they were
    knapping off sharper-than-razor flakes, does that
    not imply foot protection?

    Not necessarily, if they already had foot wear of some kind.

    The real question here is if they could have been knapping all
    these hyper sharp bits onto the ground if they didn't have
    shoes?

    Whether they developed foot coverings first or came up with
    them in response to shredding their feet & toes it all adds up
    to the same thing: Shoes!

    You know, to keep from these shards tearing into
    their vulnerable flesh and producing all kinds of
    bloody, infectious wounds?

    I mean, does it sort of kind of almost tell us they
    had shoes or something maybe akin to shoes?

    No. Have you ever watched someone knapping, or at least a video or two?
    Here's
    a decent one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJKqNjXDkU

    He's not naked and he is wearing shoes. Boots, I think.

    Ok, and?

    Pretty much sitting down. Foot wear with this activity would not be needed

    He's wearing it. And a shirt. And pants. Have you seen any videos of naked, barefoot people knapping sharper-than-a-razors stone?

    There's some nice pictures at the bottom of this link ("THE LANGDA
    ADZE-MAKERS OF IRIAN JAYA, NEW GUINEA (FIGURES 83 -97)" )

    https://www.stoneageinstitute.org/pdfs/cutting-edge-ch13-toth.pdf

    See, for example

    <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kathy-Schick/publication/281465698/figure/fig44/AS:645712148721698@1530961181496/A-view-over-the-shoulder-of-the-Langda-knapper-Note-the-spatial-pattern-of-fl-akes-and.png>

    and
    in any case these are cultures that probably went bare foot most or all
    the time

    But that's an assumption. It's what is called an a-priori assumption. It could evenly be called a bias: The human element. Science exists to eliminate exactly that.

    "Does the fact that people were knapping super sharp stones imply that
    they had shoes/foot protection?"

    Well, the video posted here is certainly consistent with this notion, as
    the man is clearly not barefoot while knapping.

    There are plenty of sharp objects on the ground besides debitage. Where do
    you think the lithics came from? They have to be gathered from somewhere.

    Of course, moving into colder climes like Siberia would almost guarantee
    foot wear of
    some kind.

    Of course /Reaching/ those colder climates would guarantee Aquatic Ape,
    as we all agree on "Coastal Dispersal."

    aa in colder climes? Swimming? LOL They chop holes in the ice? LOL

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Thu May 26 10:35:18 2022
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    He's not naked and he is wearing shoes. Boots, I think.

    Ok, and?

    Do you not understand this? The "Evidence" you presented is consistent with
    the idea that knapping sharper-than-razer flakes means they had footwear. The evidence you presented is NOT consistent with the claim that footwear is unnecessary, as the man in your video is wearing shoes (boots?).

    There's some nice pictures

    What would be "Nice" is if you believe an image establishes something you
    would identify the image and what you think it establishes.

    <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kathy-Schick/publication/281465698/figure/fig44/AS:645712148721698@1530961181496/A-view-over-the-shoulder-of-the-Langda-knapper-Note-the-spatial-pattern-of-fl-akes-and.png>

    Cool. What kind of stone is it? It's not obsidian, which is the specific stone I mentioned but what kind is it?

    "Does the fact that people were knapping super sharp stones imply that
    they had shoes/foot protection?"

    As you read for comprehension, to an impressive extant, would you mind
    blowing us all away by spelling out what specifically this "super sharp
    stone" was?

    Well, the video posted here is certainly consistent with this notion, as the man is clearly not barefoot while knapping.

    There are plenty of sharp objects on the ground besides debitage.

    Okay. So I repeat: Flint is sharper than a razor, obsidian is sharper than is flint. The video depicts an obsidian "knife" that I stated I was certain they were producing, or tools very similar. What sharp objects are sharper than
    the sharper-than-a-razor obsidian flakes?

    Where do
    you think the lithics came from?

    Why do you believe the source matters here? Explain.

    Of course /Reaching/ those colder climates would guarantee Aquatic Ape,
    as we all agree on "Coastal Dispersal."

    aa in colder climes?

    Lord know's you're not bright but, how are you pretending that they left their point of origin? Whether out of Africa or out of Asia, they started in the tropics and left... by way of flying carpet? Everyone else on the planet, including
    Out of Africa purists, agree it was coastal dispersal, which REQUIRES Aquatic Ape because there were no seaside McDonald's restaurants for them to stop at.




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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Mon May 30 23:05:48 2022
    I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    He's not naked and he is wearing shoes. Boots, I think.

    Ok, and?

    Do you not understand this? The "Evidence" you presented is consistent with the idea that knapping sharper-than-razer flakes means they had footwear. The evidence you presented is NOT consistent with the claim that footwear is unnecessary, as the man in your video is wearing shoes (boots?).

    Even the picture of the barefoot knapper? :D

    There's some nice pictures

    What would be "Nice" is if you believe an image establishes something you would identify the image and what you think it establishes.

    That do you think the guy is doing? Flossing his cat?

    <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kathy-Schick/publication/281465698/figure/fig44/AS:645712148721698@1530961181496/A-view-over-the-shoulder-of-the-Langda-knapper-Note-the-spatial-pattern-of-fl-akes-and.png>

    Cool. What kind of stone is it? It's not obsidian, which is the specific stone
    I mentioned but what kind is it?

    You mean not all stone flakes are sharp?

    "Does the fact that people were knapping super sharp stones imply that
    they had shoes/foot protection?"

    As you read for comprehension, to an impressive extant, would you mind blowing us all away by spelling out what specifically this "super sharp stone" was?

    You mean not all stone flakes are sharp?

    Well, the video posted here is certainly consistent with this notion, as >>> the man is clearly not barefoot while knapping.

    There are plenty of sharp objects on the ground besides debitage.

    Okay. So I repeat: Flint is sharper than a razor, obsidian is sharper than is
    flint. The video depicts an obsidian "knife" that I stated I was certain they were producing, or tools very similar. What sharp objects are sharper than the sharper-than-a-razor obsidian flakes?

    But still sharp. Thanks.

    Where do
    you think the lithics came from?

    Why do you believe the source matters here? Explain.

    Australopiths carried lithics for tens of kilometers.

    The paper is public. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.551.142&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    Oldowan behavior and raw material transport: perspectives from the Kanjera Formation

    "These data show that hominins selected raw materials for transport at frequencies that are significantly different from their availability on
    ancient
    landscapes. Furthermore, a substantial proportion of the assemblage
    represents transport over relatively long distances (>10 km). Our study
    further suggests that in the early stages of stone tool use hominins used
    a wide variety of raw materials and selected these materials at some
    distance from their eventual discard locations."

    "The location of these silica rich Nyanzian cherts is restricted to
    a few hills at the foot of the Kisii Highlands (Fig. 5), and therefore
    the closest primary source outcrop to Kanjera South is approximately
    35 km from the archaeological site."

    Do you think there were sharp objects they might have stepped, or will
    you claim shoes for traveling?

    Of course /Reaching/ those colder climates would guarantee Aquatic Ape,
    as we all agree on "Coastal Dispersal."

    aa in colder climes?

    Lord know's you're not bright but, how are you pretending that they left their
    point of origin? Whether out of Africa or out of Asia, they started in the tropics and left... by way of flying carpet? Everyone else on the planet, including
    Out of Africa purists, agree it was coastal dispersal, which REQUIRES Aquatic Ape because there were no seaside McDonald's restaurants for them to stop at.

    Hominid remains are found well into Siberia. Tends to get cold there.
    Water freezes
    making aa a bit hard...

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Primum Sapienti on Wed Jun 1 10:45:25 2022
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    Even the picture of the barefoot knapper? :D

    What's he knapping? Be specific. Is it wood? Marshmallow? Are you saying
    it's rock? What kind of rock?

    Be specific.

    What would be "Nice" is if you believe an image establishes something you would identify the image and what you think it establishes.

    That do you think the guy is doing? Flossing his cat?

    Okay. So you don't know what you believe an imagine establishes?

    Cool. What kind of stone is it? It's not obsidian, which is the specific stone
    I mentioned but what kind is it?

    You mean not all stone flakes are sharp?

    You have trouble following along, or rudimentary English for that matter but, saying "Obsidian is sharper than a razor" is not a Latin phrase meaning "All rocks are exactly alike and they're all sharper than a razor."

    As this is a CRITICAL flaw of in your position, and someone may help you
    Google the definition of "Critical," now would be a good time to stop. No
    sense in proceeding beyond a critical failure such as above.

    Kisses.



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  • From Primum Sapienti@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Tue Jun 7 21:29:27 2022
    I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Primum Sapienti wrote:

    Even the picture of the barefoot knapper? :D

    What's he knapping? Be specific. Is it wood? Marshmallow? Are you saying
    it's rock? What kind of rock?

    Be specific.

    Jermy, are you going to claim that some rock debitage is NOT sharp? :=D

    What would be "Nice" is if you believe an image establishes something you >>> would identify the image and what you think it establishes.

    That do you think the guy is doing? Flossing his cat?

    Okay. So you don't know what you believe an imagine establishes?

    <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kathy-Schick/publication/281465698/figure/fig44/AS:645712148721698@1530961181496/A-view-over-the-shoulder-of-the-Langda-knapper-Note-the-spatial-pattern-of-fl-akes-and.png>

    Knapping. You mean you can't tell? Explains a LOT.

    Cool. What kind of stone is it? It's not obsidian, which is the specific stone
    I mentioned but what kind is it?

    You mean not all stone flakes are sharp?

    You have trouble following along, or rudimentary English for that matter but, saying "Obsidian is sharper than a razor" is not a Latin phrase meaning "All rocks are exactly alike and they're all sharper than a razor."

    You really should take a break from making hack videos and go to an archaeological
    fair or something and watch a knapper. Flakes are sharp and are also used.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/debitage-waste-flakes-stone-tool-processing-170697 Debitage, pronounced in English roughly DEB-ih-tahzhs, is an artifact
    type, the collective
    term used by archaeologists to refer to the sharp-edged waste material
    left over when a
    flintknapper creates a stone tool (that is, knaps flint).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithic_reduction

    "Lithic reduction may be performed in order to obtain sharp flakes, of
    which a variety of
    tools can be made, or to rough out a blank for later refinement into a projectile point, knife,
    or other object. Flakes of regular size that are at least twice as long as
    they are broad are
    called blades. Lithic tools produced this way may be bifacial (exhibiting flaking on both sides) or unifacial (exhibiting flaking on one side only)."

    As this is a CRITICAL flaw of in your position, and someone may help you Google the definition of "Critical," now would be a good time to stop. No sense in proceeding beyond a critical failure such as above.

    Kisses.


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