• Stupid theories of hominin evolution

    From Paul Crowley@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 10:35:47 2021
    Suppose we had a theory about lion
    evolution that failed to mention that the
    species was a carnivore, or one about
    wildebeest that didn't refer to their
    extensive migrations, or one about
    elephants that left our all reference to
    their trunks, or one about giraffes that
    made no mention of their height and
    their necks . . . .

    You get the idea -- a theory that
    ignores the most conspicuous or
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the taxon.

    What's the most conspicuous and
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the hominin
    taxon?

    All together now . . . .

    Does it figure prominently in your
    favourite theory of hominen
    evolution?

    No?

    So how come you support such
    a stupid theory?

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Paul Crowley on Mon Sep 13 12:07:57 2021
    Paul Crowley wrote:

    What's the most conspicuous and
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the hominin
    taxon?

    No penis bone!

    Or, um, or were you looking for something else?

    "Intelligence" is the biggie, if you ask me, though it's super
    difficult to gauge across the expanse of time.

    Actually, I recall arguing 80 gazillion years ago that the first and
    most obvious is upright walking.

    "Bigger brains" is what has always dotted the line between Homo
    and everything else. It's something that can be measured from
    fossils, and that makes it empirical. I'm not as convinced by it,
    as humans today show a large enough range in brain size. Just
    extrapolating that backwards in time should leave us reason to
    doubt, all the more so when you consider that maybe there was
    a few million years LESS of filtering... more diversity, perhaps?




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/662184098294595584

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Paul Crowley on Tue Sep 14 06:05:16 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:35:48 PM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
    Suppose we had a theory about lion
    evolution that failed to mention that the
    species was a carnivore, or one about
    wildebeest that didn't refer to their
    extensive migrations, or one about
    elephants that left our all reference to
    their trunks, or one about giraffes that
    made no mention of their height and
    their necks . . . .

    You get the idea -- a theory that
    ignores the most conspicuous or
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the taxon.

    What's the most conspicuous and
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the hominin
    taxon?

    All together now . . . .

    Does it figure prominently in your
    favourite theory of hominen
    evolution?

    No?

    So how come you support such
    a stupid theory?

    Fantasy Island?
    -

    Homo sapiens: sheltered-hyper-altricial-hyper-social-hyper-speaking grounded-watered ape.

    Upright biped not Hs unique.
    Baculum loss not Hs unique.
    Brain size: shrinking in Hs, not unique.

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  • From Paul Crowley@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Wed Sep 15 07:22:15 2021
    On Monday 13 September 2021 at 20:07:58 UTC+1, I Envy JTEM wrote:

    What's the most conspicuous and
    salient feature or behaviour or
    characteristic of the hominin
    taxon?

    No penis bone!

    Or, um, or were you looking for something else?

    "Intelligence" is the biggie, if you ask me, though it's super
    difficult to gauge across the expanse of time.

    "Intelligence" (in a broad sense) is the
    reason that we've got to a population of
    8 billion, and are destroying the planet.

    (By 'intelligence' I mean the whole gamut
    of abilities and social systems that
    facilitated adaptability, culture,
    communication and language.)

    though it's super
    difficult to gauge across the expanse of time.

    "Intelligence" hardly had anything to do
    with the reason the first population of
    proto-hominins separated from their
    chimp cousins. That would have been
    something accidental -- like a major
    river changing course, or a rise in sea-
    level. But if the newly separated
    population was to survive in its new
    situation it had to be able to call upon
    its own resources in new ways. It had
    to change its behaviours to allow for the
    exploitation of its native "intelligence".
    It had to find new food sources and new
    ways of doing things and then exchange
    ideas within the whole community.

    Actually, I recall arguing 80 gazillion years ago that the first and
    most obvious is upright walking.

    'Upright walking' and all the other
    morphological and behavioural changes
    must have been impelled by the newly-
    developed and exercised "intelligence".

    All the standard theories (and most of
    the non-standard ones, such as seen in
    this forum) unthinkingly assume the
    contrary. According to them, the taxon
    adopted all manner of strange (and
    often unique) morphologies and then,
    purely coincidentally, noticed that it
    had acquired a super-intelligence.
    That's manifestly illogical. It requires
    an extreme level of coincidence.

    So when you see a theory of human
    evolution claiming that early hominins
    evolved an ability at super-running or
    became bipedal from wading, or from
    climbing cliffs, or from swimming in
    lakes or the sea, you know that you
    are reading nonsense.

    Any theory that focuses primarily on
    morphology can only be wrong.

    "Bigger brains" is what has always dotted the line between Homo
    and everything else. It's something that can be measured from
    fossils, and that makes it empirical. I'm not as convinced by it,
    as humans today show a large enough range in brain size. Just
    extrapolating that backwards in time should leave us reason to
    doubt, all the more so when you consider that maybe there was
    a few million years LESS of filtering... more diversity, perhaps?

    The 'brain size' issue has got to be a
    distraction. H.naledi's brain is not much
    more than that of a chimp. If that's all
    a relatively recent hominin needed,
    then the rest is probably just a form of
    insulation, and readily lost by a species
    that slept in caves.

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Paul Crowley on Wed Sep 15 16:58:07 2021
    Paul Crowley wrote:

    "Intelligence" (in a broad sense) is the
    reason that we've got to a population of
    8 billion, and are destroying the planet.

    Google: The Great Oxidation Event.

    Microbes changed the planet, the atmosphere, and sparked the first
    and one of the greatest extinction events in life's history.

    What I'm say in a round about way is that you shouldn't fall for the propaganda. Life on earth changes the earth. Life on earth has
    always changed the earth.

    ...one researcher claimed that humans began to have an impact
    on the oceans, sea life populations, already in prehistoric times.

    Either we render humans extinct or we stop worrying about IF we're
    going to change the planet and starting talking abut HOW we're
    going to change -- directing the change.

    "Intelligence" hardly had anything to do
    with the reason the first population of
    proto-hominins separated from their
    chimp cousins.

    All evidence supports the conclusion that it never happened that
    way. There's an excellent & rather compelling argument that Pan
    should be erased and Chimps should be classified as Homo.

    That would have been
    something accidental -- like a major
    river changing course, or a rise in sea-
    level. But if the newly separated
    population was to survive in its new
    situation it had to be able to call upon
    its own resources in new ways. It had
    to change its behaviours to allow for the
    exploitation of its native "intelligence".

    "Founder Effect" works, too.

    But Aquatic Ape results in what you're speaking of. The glacial/interglacial cycle, storm surges, red tides, the odd inhospitable stretch of coast... then add human conflict, population growth, nothing to stop individuals or whole groups from peeling off...

    But Aquatic Ape doesn't just explain HOW and WHY humans spread,
    breaking off into all sorts of different populations. It explains how they all remained humans, as the Aquatic (coastal) population acted as a
    conduit, transporting DNA from population to population.





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/662426928409640960

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  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 20 05:19:05 2021
    Op woensdag 15 september 2021 om 16:22:16 UTC+2 schreef Paul Crowley:


    "Intelligence" (in a broad sense) is the
    reason that we've got to a population of
    8 billion, and are destroying the planet.

    Yes, Paul, unfortunately, you're right here...

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Tue Sep 21 05:24:28 2021
    On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:19:06 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op woensdag 15 september 2021 om 16:22:16 UTC+2 schreef Paul Crowley:
    "Intelligence" (in a broad sense) is the
    reason that we've got to a population of
    8 billion, and are destroying the planet.
    Yes, Paul, unfortunately, you're right here...

    With a little help from our (brainless) friends:

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2011/07/27/counting-chickens

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