• 1.5 million years of hunting

    From Pandora@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 22 15:49:41 2021
    Early humans hunted the largest available animals to extinction for
    1.5 million years.

    https://phys.org/news/2021-12-early-humans-largest-animals-extinction.html

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to Pandora on Wed Dec 22 18:02:11 2021
    On 22.12.2021. 15:49, Pandora wrote:
    Early humans hunted the largest available animals to extinction for
    1.5 million years.

    https://phys.org/news/2021-12-early-humans-largest-animals-extinction.html

    This story has few quirks (or whatever). Per this theory it would be
    that today humans are eating ants. No, we are eating sheep, cows, pigs.
    Per this theory cows should be extinct long time ago, because of human over-hunting. Also, elephants would be extinct, and all the other large animals. They aren't extinct. Mammoths were extinct, not because of over-hunting, but because humans burned their food, and grass started to
    grow, instead of forbs that mammoths ate.
    There is a second thing. They are emphasizing the date of 1.5 mya. No,
    humans didn't start to hunt 1.5 mya, it is just the date that first
    humans appeared there (of course this also isn't true, because they've
    found humans stone tools in China, 2.1 my old, the closer, Dmanisi Homo,
    is 1.8 my old).
    There is the third thing. One would expect that humans would start
    with smaller animals. This theory says that humans were already capable
    to hunt the largest animals, right from the very beginning. Well, if
    they were so capable, why weren't they capable to herd animals? They had
    tools, they had everything. Somebody who is capable enough to hunt the
    biggest animals, for sure also is capable to herd animals. I mean, what
    species (I forgot) of Homo (every?) lived in long narrow valleys? Why
    long and narrow? They say that animals passed through those valley, and
    Homo hunted them. Wouldn't those valleys be ideal for herding animals?
    You just close both ends, and you have how much meat you want.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From Paul Crowley@21:1/5 to Pandora on Wed Dec 22 10:53:06 2021
    On Wednesday 22 December 2021 at 14:49:42 UTC, Pandora wrote:

    Early humans hunted the largest available animals to extinction for
    1.5 million years.

    https://phys.org/news/2021-12-early-humans-largest-animals-extinction.html

    This paper is nonsense. Firstly, there's the sheer danger to
    any homo of getting anywhere near these animals, especially
    as a potential predator. Second, there'd be no point. How
    could a small group consume more than a tiny fraction of
    the meat.

    But, more fundamentally, IF homo had been an active predator
    on these massive animals 1.5 ma to 0.5 ma then the genus
    would have been a part of the ecology and left roughly the
    same number of fossils as any other major predator (such as,
    say, Homotherium -- the sabre-tooth tiger). Homo fossils are
    almost totally absent from the landscape -- present at most
    as one for every 10,000 homotheriums, probably closer to
    somewhere between one in 100,000 and one in a million.

    Yet the only likely cause of this pattern -- the fall in size over
    1.5 Myr of dominant herbivores -- can only be the result of
    homo behaviour.

    What was it?

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  • From Paul Crowley@21:1/5 to Paul Crowley on Wed Dec 22 11:25:22 2021
    On Wednesday 22 December 2021 at 18:53:07 UTC, Paul Crowley wrote:

    IF homo had been an active predator on these massive animals
    1.5 ma to 0.5 ma then the genus would have been a part of
    the ecology and left roughly the same number of fossils as any
    other major predator (such as, say, Homotherium -- the sabre-
    tooth tiger). Homo fossils are almost totally absent from the
    landscape -- present at most as one for every 10,000 homo-
    theriums, probably closer to somewhere between one in
    100,000 and one in a million.

    Yet the only likely cause of this pattern -- the fall in size over
    1.5 Myr of dominant herbivores -- can only be the result of
    homo behaviour.

    What was it?

    It's a difficult question, and impossible to answer if you're
    trying to work with a crazy (or semi-crazy) theory of human
    evolution, such as "running on the savanna" or living in
    swamps, or "living in forests carrying dome-shields around".

    I believe that small numbers of hominins, working over
    thousands of generations, eliminated local carnivores
    and omnivores that they regarded dangerous. They never
    (or very rarely) did this by direct confrontation. Instead,
    they poisoned them. Exactly how doesn't really matter,
    and they probably changed their methods whenever the
    wildlife appeared to be getting wise to their current
    techniques. They placed poisoned bait around their
    settlements, which acted as 'sinks' for those species. Each
    new generation of predator coming into the locality would
    notice the abundance of food in the form of prey species,
    and the absence of local predators. They'd fill their bellies;
    (few instances of starving predators will be found in the
    vicinity of hominin settlements). But soon they'd fall
    victim to the baited traps.

    As the number of predators declined, the prey species --
    predominantly herbivores -- would rapidly expand their
    numbers and begin to roam freely. Within a century or
    so, they'd destroy the habitat of the region. The hominin
    population would have to move on, and repeat the cycle.
    In a few thousand years, they'd have done enough to the
    continent-wide ecology to institute an ice-age.

    An ice-age has worldwide effects: everything gets cold,
    the atmosphere becomes cold, dry and dusty; sea-levels
    fall, forests become smaller, often turning into grasslands,
    savannas become deserts.

    Up to ~1 ma, the ice-ages were less severe and widespread
    and were shorter than those after ~1 ma, lasting around
    40 Kyr, on average. The wildlife refugia between 2.6 ma and
    1.0 ma, especially in Asia, were larger and more common,
    enabling faster rebounds.

    Why did larger species suffer more than smaller ones (from
    the recurring ice-ages)?

    I suggest that it is simply that populations of larger species
    were smaller, more widely dispersed, and with slower
    maturation. Often they were more specialised. All these
    factors meant that they found it more difficult to cope with
    the radical changes brought about by the ice-age/interglacial
    cycles. They could prosper, and compete with smaller species,
    when times were good and food supplies were relatively
    predictable. But when times became extremely hard, none
    would survive. Members of smaller species would also suffer,
    and populations would disappear, but a few groups or
    individuals would manage to get through, and enable the
    species to survive.

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