• Living in the past

    From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 15 13:44:57 2021
    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist
    200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
    I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted* just for
    this specific environment. They have language, they have culture evolved
    for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes, that live in other environments, are adapted for other environments. It doesn't mean that
    this particular tribe cannot live in other environments, it does have
    all the necessary skills, it is just that there they would meet
    competition, competition from tribes that are better adapted to that
    other environment. So, they keep staying in this environment where they
    are (of course, when major changes come, some turmoil will be).
    The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big herds, for
    some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
    This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into "intelligence meme".
    Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the question is, why we
    wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we were just as
    intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you stupid bastards
    don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula became a desert,
    you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your neighbors will attack you.
    There are no kings in Ind civilization. Why? Because they cannot
    accumulate enough of wealth.
    And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 08:46:00 2021
    On 15.12.2021. 13:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
            I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist 200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
            I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted* just for this specific environment. They have language, they have
    culture evolved for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes,
    that live in other environments, are adapted for other environments. It doesn't mean that this particular tribe cannot live in other
    environments, it does have all the necessary skills, it is just that
    there they would meet competition, competition from tribes that are
    better adapted to that other environment. So, they keep staying in this environment where they are (of course, when major changes come, some
    turmoil will be).
            The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big herds,
    for some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
            This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into "intelligence
    meme". Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the question is, why we wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we were just as
    intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you stupid bastards
    don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula became a desert,
    you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your neighbors will attack you.
    There are no kings in Ind civilization. Why? Because they cannot
    accumulate enough of wealth.
            And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4

    Ha, ha, this is interesting.
    Let's see how I see the necessary preconditions for progress (roughly,
    just a showcase):
    - you need to have secluded community to be able to accumulate wealth
    - before that you need to have an agriculture product that can be easily stored, transported (cereals)
    - before that you need to develop blade technology to pick up that product
    - before that you need to have metal (hematite) to be able to better
    carve stone and wood tools
    - and so on, and so on...
    Now, let's see the necessary preconditions as seen through the eyes of
    top scientists:
    - the only precondition is that you need to "see God", or,
    "scientifically" speaking, become "spiritual", somehow. And then they
    mention all the "evidence" that this happened. They didn't grind
    hematite to carve better tools, oh no, they did it to paint with it,
    because they are, oh so, spiritual. They didn't bury their deceased
    because now they have something to bury them with (a wooden shovel
    carved with hematite), oh no, they buried them because they became
    "spiritual".

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 01:53:37 2021
    On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 7:44:58 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist
    200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
    I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted* just for
    this specific environment. They have language, they have culture evolved
    for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes, that live in other environments, are adapted for other environments. It doesn't mean that
    this particular tribe cannot live in other environments, it does have
    all the necessary skills, it is just that there they would meet
    competition, competition from tribes that are better adapted to that
    other environment. So, they keep staying in this environment where they
    are (of course, when major changes come, some turmoil will be).
    The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big herds, for
    some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
    This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into "intelligence meme". Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the question is, why we
    wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we were just as
    intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you stupid bastards
    don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula became a desert,
    you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your neighbors will attack you.
    There are no kings in Ind civilization. Why? Because they cannot
    accumulate enough of wealth.
    And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com
    When the food is nearly finished, move to the next spot, or go hungry. The food must regenerate, which takes time and space and energy. Nomadism is cyclical/seasonal. Agriculture depends on trade, which transfers food from elsewhere, so is nomadic.

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 01:55:03 2021
    On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 2:46:02 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 15.12.2021. 13:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't
    exist 200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
    I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted*
    just for this specific environment. They have language, they have
    culture evolved for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes,
    that live in other environments, are adapted for other environments. It doesn't mean that this particular tribe cannot live in other
    environments, it does have all the necessary skills, it is just that
    there they would meet competition, competition from tribes that are
    better adapted to that other environment. So, they keep staying in this environment where they are (of course, when major changes come, some turmoil will be).
    The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big herds,
    for some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
    This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into "intelligence meme". Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the question is, why we wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we were just as
    intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you stupid bastards
    don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula became a desert,
    you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your neighbors will attack you. There are no kings in Ind civilization. Why? Because they cannot
    accumulate enough of wealth.
    And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4
    Ha, ha, this is interesting.
    Let's see how I see the necessary preconditions for progress (roughly,
    just a showcase):
    - you need to have secluded community to be able to accumulate wealth
    - before that you need to have an agriculture product that can be easily stored, transported (cereals)
    - before that you need to develop blade technology to pick up that product
    - before that you need to have metal (hematite) to be able to better
    carve stone and wood tools
    - and so on, and so on...
    Now, let's see the necessary preconditions as seen through the eyes of
    top scientists:
    - the only precondition is that you need to "see God", or,
    "scientifically" speaking, become "spiritual", somehow. And then they
    mention all the "evidence" that this happened. They didn't grind
    hematite to carve better tools, oh no, they did it to paint with it,
    because they are, oh so, spiritual. They didn't bury their deceased
    because now they have something to bury them with (a wooden shovel
    carved with hematite), oh no, they buried them because they became "spiritual".

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com
    Spirit is nomadic, body is until death.

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 16:07:04 2021
    On 16.12.2021. 8:46, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 15.12.2021. 13:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
             I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't
    exist 200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
             I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted*
    just for this specific environment. They have language, they have
    culture evolved for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes,
    that live in other environments, are adapted for other environments.
    It doesn't mean that this particular tribe cannot live in other
    environments, it does have all the necessary skills, it is just that
    there they would meet competition, competition from tribes that are
    better adapted to that other environment. So, they keep staying in
    this environment where they are (of course, when major changes come,
    some turmoil will be).
             The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big
    herds, for some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
             This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into
    "intelligence meme". Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the
    question is, why we wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we
    were just as intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you
    stupid bastards don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula
    became a desert, you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your
    neighbors will attack you. There are no kings in Ind civilization.
    Why? Because they cannot accumulate enough of wealth.
             And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4

            Ha, ha, this is interesting.
            Let's see how I see the necessary preconditions for progress (roughly, just a showcase):
    - you need to have secluded community to be able to accumulate wealth
    - before that you need to have an agriculture product that can be easily stored, transported (cereals)
    - before that you need to develop blade technology to pick up that product
    - before that you need to have metal (hematite) to be able to better
    carve stone and wood tools
    - and so on, and so on...
            Now, let's see the necessary preconditions as seen through the
    eyes of top scientists:
    - the only precondition is that you need to "see God", or,
    "scientifically" speaking, become "spiritual", somehow. And then they
    mention all the "evidence" that this happened. They didn't grind
    hematite to carve better tools, oh no, they did it to paint with it,
    because they are, oh so, spiritual. They didn't bury their deceased
    because now they have something to bury them with (a wooden shovel
    carved with hematite), oh no, they buried them because they became "spiritual".

    Ha, ha, what is the best thing about the reality, you see all those
    steps that were necessary for the civilization to happen? Well, I cannot
    prove any of them. And there are so many of them. And Occam's razor says
    that the simpler, the better. So, instead of researching all those
    steps, science simply accept only one step (which also cannot be proved,
    so, it is just as valid as any other), God, lol. Brilliant.
    Jesus Christ.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 16 16:03:02 2021
    On 16.12.2021. 10:53, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 7:44:58 AM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist
    200 kya. Take out the red ochre, and it could exist 1 mya.
    I see no "nomadic lifestyle" here. Those people are *adapted* just for
    this specific environment. They have language, they have culture evolved
    for this environment, and for no other. Other tribes, that live in other
    environments, are adapted for other environments. It doesn't mean that
    this particular tribe cannot live in other environments, it does have
    all the necessary skills, it is just that there they would meet
    competition, competition from tribes that are better adapted to that
    other environment. So, they keep staying in this environment where they
    are (of course, when major changes come, some turmoil will be).
    The "nomadic" lifestyle is in areas where you follow big herds, for
    some reason. I see that those people can tame cows.
    This "progression meme" is necessary to fit into "intelligence meme".
    Supposedly we are "intelligent" today, so the question is, why we
    wouldn't be able to live like this 1 mya, if we were just as
    intelligent? No, we cannot because of the reasons you stupid bastards
    don't understand. For example, until Arabian peninsula became a desert,
    you couldn't accumulate wealth, because your neighbors will attack you.
    There are no kings in Ind civilization. Why? Because they cannot
    accumulate enough of wealth.
    And so on, and so on...
    https://youtu.be/Lgw5zdFnesI
    https://youtu.be/Tlk8ZOTi6y4

    When the food is nearly finished, move to the next spot, or go hungry. The food must regenerate, which takes time and space and energy. Nomadism is cyclical/seasonal. Agriculture depends on trade, which transfers food from elsewhere, so is nomadic.

    If you were watching as many nature documentaries as I did, you would
    know that every animal (except humans) is smart enough to manage their resources. If by no other means, then by controlling the number of
    offspring. Only humans are unaware of the concept. Mostly because
    religions demand from them to multiply as much as they can. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Priest%27s_Children

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 16:44:15 2021
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist
    200 kya.

    #1. Metallurgy was about 200k years away from being invented. As was...

    #2. The domestication of cattle. And of course...

    #3. Agriculture or even proto agriculture for that matter.

    #4. So called "Moderns" didn't exist. Sure, the social program that calls itself paleo anthropology loves to claim otherwise but nothing that looks
    like an "Anatomically Modern Human" existed.

    So I couldn't think of a single reason either. Four extremely good reasons, plural, but not "one" reason... just four...




    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Fri Dec 17 01:57:03 2021
    On 17.12.2021. 1:44, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    I see not a single reason why this kind of lifestyle wouldn't exist
    200 kya.

    #1. Metallurgy was about 200k years away from being invented. As was...

    #2. The domestication of cattle. And of course...

    #3. Agriculture or even proto agriculture for that matter.

    #4. So called "Moderns" didn't exist. Sure, the social program that calls itself paleo anthropology loves to claim otherwise but nothing that looks like an "Anatomically Modern Human" existed.

    So I couldn't think of a single reason either. Four extremely good reasons, plural, but not "one" reason... just four...

    #1. Hematite is metal, which is even harder (but more brittle) than pure
    iron. Ever heard of hematite? If you have heard of hematite, how can you
    say that there wasn't a metallurgy? Grinding is a type of metallurgy as
    well. I mean, I have enough of this. Why are people so *stupid* to not
    see that hematite is metal? Is it really so hard to see that? Are you
    *blind*, for god's sake?
    #2. There is an excellent evidence for herding bovids 1.5 mya. I will
    not repeat it for hundred times.
    #3. Do you know what is the evidence of agriculture? You don't know a
    sh.t about agriculture. The evidence of Holocene is the end of the
    agricultural development, not the beginning. We had blade technology in
    upper paleolithic. Take a good look at tools, and see which ones of them
    have blades. Which one of them need blades to have.
    #4. Homo sapiens is 300 ky old. Neanderthals 250 ky old.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Thu Dec 16 20:28:04 2021
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    #1. Hematite is metal, which is even harder (but more brittle) than pure iron. Ever heard of hematite? If you have heard of hematite, how can you
    say that there wasn't a metallurgy?

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock

    #2. There is an excellent evidence for herding bovids 1.5 mya.

    No there isn't.

    #3. Do you know what is the evidence of agriculture?

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to people
    are more obvious.

    We had blade technology in upper paleolithic.

    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    #4. Homo sapiens is 300 ky old. Neanderthals 250 ky old.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back
    200,000 years. Period.


    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

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  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Fri Dec 17 04:06:33 2021
    On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 11:28:05 PM UTC-5, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    #1. Hematite is metal, which is even harder (but more brittle) than pure iron. Ever heard of hematite? If you have heard of hematite, how can you say that there wasn't a metallurgy?
    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    Throwing it at Jtem, knocking him out, then stealing his coins.

    #2. There is an excellent evidence for herding bovids 1.5 mya.
    No there isn't.
    #3. Do you know what is the evidence of agriculture?
    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to people
    are more obvious.
    We had blade technology in upper paleolithic.
    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."
    #4. Homo sapiens is 300 ky old. Neanderthals 250 ky old.
    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back
    200,000 years. Period.


    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html
    Knapthyme.

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Sat Dec 18 03:06:47 2021
    On 17.12.2021. 5:28, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    #1. Hematite is metal, which is even harder (but more brittle) than pure
    iron. Ever heard of hematite? If you have heard of hematite, how can you
    say that there wasn't a metallurgy?

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock

    = Grinding

    #2. There is an excellent evidence for herding bovids 1.5 mya.

    No there isn't.

    #3. Do you know what is the evidence of agriculture?

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to people
    are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    We had blade technology in upper paleolithic.

    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Nor for combine producing.
    The mechanism of combine - "In design, the combine is essentially a
    binder-type cutting device that cuts and delivers the grain or seed crop
    to a threshing machine modified to work as it moves across the field."
    The mechanism of blade - Just the same.

    #4. Homo sapiens is 300 ky old. Neanderthals 250 ky old.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back
    200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    --
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    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sat Dec 18 11:02:36 2021
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to people are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools
    for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back 200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great
    deal more recent that 200k years ago.



    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Sun Dec 19 03:12:27 2021
    On 18.12.2021. 20:02, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to people >>> are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools
    for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone Age,
    blade technology, last 50 ky.
    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.
    What settlements? Today you have villages just like you always had.
    Hand axe is a tool for digging. Do you know how you process the grains? Of course you don't know, you don't know a sh.t, and you dare to challenge everybody. Grain is processed by being stepped on by hooves: https://youtu.be/5doY88-vGog
    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5 mya),
    then, what is left between their feet are seeds, which you can eat,
    because they have starch.
    You control animals with leather rains, which you can produce with
    Oldowan tools.

    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    https://youtu.be/ZHwVBirqD2s

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back
    200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not
    ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great
    deal more recent that 200k years ago.
    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

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  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sun Dec 19 03:20:58 2021
    On 19.12.2021. 3:12, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 18.12.2021. 20:02, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to
    people
    are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools
    for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

            The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone
    Age, blade technology, last 50 ky.
            The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.
            What settlements? Today you have villages just like you always
    had.
            Hand axe is a tool for digging. Do you know how you process the
    grains? Of course you don't know, you don't know a sh.t, and you dare to challenge everybody. Grain is processed by being stepped on by hooves: https://youtu.be/5doY88-vGog
            So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5 mya), then, what is left between their feet are seeds, which you can
    eat, because they have starch.
            You control animals with leather rains, which you can produce with Oldowan tools.

    See this processing of rice (first by hand, then by oxen). The taller
    you are, the better you'll do the job:
    https://youtu.be/UyaZjdtqjxs

    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    https://youtu.be/ZHwVBirqD2s

            Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back
    200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not
    ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great
    deal more recent that 200k years ago.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sun Dec 19 16:09:11 2021
    On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 9:20:59 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 19.12.2021. 3:12, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 18.12.2021. 20:02, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to
    people
    are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools >> for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone Age, blade technology, last 50 ky.
    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.
    What settlements? Today you have villages just like you always
    had.
    Hand axe is a tool for digging. Do you know how you process the grains? Of course you don't know, you don't know a sh.t, and you dare to challenge everybody. Grain is processed by being stepped on by hooves: https://youtu.be/5doY88-vGog
    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5
    mya), then, what is left between their feet are seeds, which you can
    eat, because they have starch.
    You control animals with leather rains, which you can produce
    with Oldowan tools.
    See this processing of rice (first by hand, then by oxen). The taller
    you are, the better you'll do the job:
    https://youtu.be/UyaZjdtqjxs
    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    https://youtu.be/ZHwVBirqD2s

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back >>>> 200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not >>> ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great
    deal more recent that 200k years ago.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com
    -
    Agriculture is not harvesting & processing food, that's hunting and gathering. Agriculture is genetic improvement of food due to breeding for desired characteristics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 20 03:45:48 2021
    On 20.12.2021. 1:09, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 9:20:59 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 19.12.2021. 3:12, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 18.12.2021. 20:02, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to
    people
    are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools >>>> for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone >>> Age, blade technology, last 50 ky.
    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later. >>> What settlements? Today you have villages just like you always
    had.
    Hand axe is a tool for digging. Do you know how you process the >>> grains? Of course you don't know, you don't know a sh.t, and you dare to >>> challenge everybody. Grain is processed by being stepped on by hooves:
    https://youtu.be/5doY88-vGog
    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5
    mya), then, what is left between their feet are seeds, which you can
    eat, because they have starch.
    You control animals with leather rains, which you can produce
    with Oldowan tools.
    See this processing of rice (first by hand, then by oxen). The taller
    you are, the better you'll do the job:
    https://youtu.be/UyaZjdtqjxs
    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    https://youtu.be/ZHwVBirqD2s

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back >>>>>> 200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not >>>>> ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the
    newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great >>>> deal more recent that 200k years ago.
    -
    Agriculture is not harvesting & processing food, that's hunting and gathering. Agriculture is genetic improvement of food due to breeding for desired characteristics.

    No, agriculture is production of food. Otherwise it is gathering of food.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sun Dec 19 21:35:15 2021
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone Age,
    blade technology, last 50 ky.

    Great. There was no agriculture 50k years ago either. But you were claiming that it reaches back 1.7 million years.

    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.

    So... that's not it, either.

    What settlements? Today you have

    Nobody asked about today. Originally you made crazy claims about 200k
    years ago and then upped you kook quotient too 1.7 million years ago. You
    were asked to support that nonsense, not change the subject.

    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5 mya)

    We don't have evidence oof herding 1.5 million years ago.

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    At my most charitable I might call that baseless speculation.

    I might.


    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sun Dec 19 21:28:17 2021
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 9:45:49 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 1:09, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 9:20:59 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 19.12.2021. 3:12, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 18.12.2021. 20:02, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    Metallurgy != Picking up a rock
    = Grinding

    So show us. Post a cite to this metallurgy that you speak of.

    Agriculture changes the people and the plants, but the changes to >>>>>> people
    are more obvious.

    A change happened 1.7 mya. H.habilis to H.erectus.

    It didn't not. Not any change with agriculture.

    Where are the settlements? The storage facilities? The specialized tools
    for planting, harvesting and even processing the grains for eating?

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone
    Age, blade technology, last 50 ky.
    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.
    What settlements? Today you have villages just like you always
    had.
    Hand axe is a tool for digging. Do you know how you process the
    grains? Of course you don't know, you don't know a sh.t, and you dare to >>> challenge everybody. Grain is processed by being stepped on by hooves: >>> https://youtu.be/5doY88-vGog
    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5
    mya), then, what is left between their feet are seeds, which you can
    eat, because they have starch.
    You control animals with leather rains, which you can produce
    with Oldowan tools.
    See this processing of rice (first by hand, then by oxen). The taller
    you are, the better you'll do the job:
    https://youtu.be/UyaZjdtqjxs
    "Agriculture" is not Greek for "Stone napping."

    Still stands.

    https://youtu.be/ZHwVBirqD2s

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens.

    The issue is that there are no anatomically modern humans going back >>>>>> 200,000 years. Period.

    You really don't know a sh.t. The lineage of H.sapiens and
    Neanderthals split before H. Heidelbergensis. H. Heidelbergensis is not
    ancestor of H. sapiens, but it is ancestor of Neanderthals (per the >>>>> newest genetic research).

    You're part Neanderthal and your last Neanderthal ancestor was a great >>>> deal more recent that 200k years ago.
    -
    Agriculture is not harvesting & processing food, that's hunting and gathering. Agriculture is genetic improvement of food due to breeding for desired characteristics.
    No, agriculture is production of food. Otherwise it is gathering of food.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com

    Yes. Your claim is right in general and traditional. Mine is based on modern science-based agriculture and began with domestication & breeding vs natural practices.

    I looked at the word origin. Agri- means field. Culture is from Latin colere, which means house, from kwel which is from golu, domeshield covering a site.

    culture (n.)
    mid-15c., "the tilling of land, act of preparing the earth for crops," from Latin cultura "a cultivating, agriculture," figuratively "care, culture, an honoring," from past participle stem of colere "to tend, guard; to till, cultivate"

    colony (n.)
    late 14c., "ancient Roman settlement outside Italy," from Latin colonia "settled land, farm, landed estate," from colonus "husbandman, tenant farmer, settler in new land," from colere "to cultivate, to till; to inhabit; to frequent, practice, respect;
    tend, guard," from PIE root *kwel- (1) "revolve, move round; sojourn, dwell" (source also of Latin -cola "inhabitant").

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Mon Dec 20 07:34:43 2021
    On 20.12.2021. 6:35, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    The best storage was achieved with cereals. This is Upper Stone Age,
    blade technology, last 50 ky.

    Great. There was no agriculture 50k years ago either. But you were claiming that it reaches back 1.7 million years.

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my. Does not to be
    storable.

    The best storage could be achieved with pottery, came only later.

    So... that's not it, either.

    You are talking about storability. Again you are confusing things. You
    can store things in basket made out of weed. The best storage is in
    pottery. Even better is in plastic. So, if there wasn't plastic, there
    wasn't agriculture?

    What settlements? Today you have

    Nobody asked about today. Originally you made crazy claims about 200k
    years ago and then upped you kook quotient too 1.7 million years ago. You were asked to support that nonsense, not change the subject.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what? What kind of settlements? These are trading posts. For something like that you need
    to have well established a lot of things. But, that's too hard for you.

    So, first you have animals (we have evidence of herding 1.5 mya)

    We don't have evidence oof herding 1.5 million years ago.

    Hand axes are stone shovels. You dig with shovels.

    At my most charitable I might call that baseless speculation.

    I might.


    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From I Envy JTEM@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Sun Dec 19 22:52:37 2021
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture
    changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture,
    as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the archaeological record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT: The common link is archaeology, the evidence.




    -- --

    https://rumble.com/vqwxtc-the-worst-of-watch-this-volume-ii.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to I Envy JTEM on Mon Dec 20 15:44:13 2021
    On 20.12.2021. 7:52, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture,
    as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the archaeological record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT: The common link is archaeology, the evidence.

    Scientists know that people lived in tents and huts. So, this is what
    I am saying, also. But, they are claiming that people moved those tents
    and huts around. Why would they do that, if they could herd animals?
    Wolves and dogs have herding ability: https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_house#Paleolithic_Settlements

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Mon Dec 20 20:32:30 2021
    On 20.12.2021. 15:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 7:52, I Envy JTEM wrote:
      Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture
    changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture,
    as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the
    archaeological
    record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT:  The common link is archaeology, the evidence.

            Scientists know that people lived in tents and huts. So, this is what I am saying, also. But, they are claiming that people moved
    those tents and huts around. Why would they do that, if they could herd animals? Wolves and dogs have herding ability: https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_house#Paleolithic_Settlements

    Actually, it is all pretty simple, and we can find traces of such
    behavior even to these days. I just watched some survival video. The guy
    took some chestnuts, but he didn't eat them all, he dug one of them into
    the ground.
    It is well known offering to the gods. Chestnut grows out of the
    ground, so you have to thank the god of the ground for that. Today, just
    the same as 2 million years ago. And the next year the god of the ground
    will give you another chestnut tree.
    Pretty simple, and extremely effective. I don't see a single reason
    why humans wouldn't behave like this.
    Of course, the reason why they wouldn't is always the same, the place
    humans have in Bible, where humans have some special powers, accessible
    to them only later.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Tue Dec 21 15:44:07 2021
    On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:32:30 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 15:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 7:52, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture
    changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture,
    as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the
    archaeological
    record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT: The common link is archaeology, the evidence.

    Scientists know that people lived in tents and huts. So, this
    is what I am saying, also. But, they are claiming that people moved
    those tents and huts around. Why would they do that, if they could herd animals? Wolves and dogs have herding ability: https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_house#Paleolithic_Settlements
    Actually, it is all pretty simple, and we can find traces of such
    behavior even to these days. I just watched some survival video. The guy
    took some chestnuts, but he didn't eat them all, he dug one of them into
    the ground.
    It is well known offering to the gods. Chestnut grows out of the
    ground, so you have to thank the god of the ground for that. Today, just
    the same as 2 million years ago. And the next year the god of the ground
    will give you another chestnut tree.
    Pretty simple, and extremely effective. I don't see a single reason
    why humans wouldn't behave like this.
    Of course, the reason why they wouldn't is always the same, the place
    humans have in Bible, where humans have some special powers, accessible
    to them only later.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com

    -

    Mario, agriculture began +2ma at coastal rocky shorelines, when marine limpets cleared tidal cliffs of mollusks to grow algae crop on the soaked rocks and Homo watched and helped by using handaxes to scrape mollusks and oysters off and ate them.

    https://evolvopedia.quora.com/What-species-besides-humans-grow-and-harvest-their-own-food

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mario Petrinovic@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 22 01:43:14 2021
    On 22.12.2021. 0:44, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:32:30 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 15:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 7:52, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture >>>> changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture, >>>> as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the
    archaeological
    record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT: The common link is archaeology, the evidence.

    Scientists know that people lived in tents and huts. So, this
    is what I am saying, also. But, they are claiming that people moved
    those tents and huts around. Why would they do that, if they could herd
    animals? Wolves and dogs have herding ability:
    https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_house#Paleolithic_Settlements
    Actually, it is all pretty simple, and we can find traces of such
    behavior even to these days. I just watched some survival video. The guy
    took some chestnuts, but he didn't eat them all, he dug one of them into
    the ground.
    It is well known offering to the gods. Chestnut grows out of the
    ground, so you have to thank the god of the ground for that. Today, just
    the same as 2 million years ago. And the next year the god of the ground
    will give you another chestnut tree.
    Pretty simple, and extremely effective. I don't see a single reason
    why humans wouldn't behave like this.
    Of course, the reason why they wouldn't is always the same, the place
    humans have in Bible, where humans have some special powers, accessible
    to them only later.

    Mario, agriculture began +2ma at coastal rocky shorelines, when marine limpets cleared tidal cliffs of mollusks to grow algae crop on the soaked rocks and Homo watched and helped by using handaxes to scrape mollusks and oysters off and ate them.

    https://evolvopedia.quora.com/What-species-besides-humans-grow-and-harvest-their-own-food

    Hand axes are brittle (and not sharp enough), you cannot perform this
    with hand axes. But, you can scrape mollusks with a mollusk shell, much
    better.
    This hand axe idea for doing such a tough mechanic job, that comes
    from the AAT community, is stupid, and it paints them as stupid, they
    should abandon it as soon as possible, science isn't a dinner party.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-evolution@googlegroups.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_l@21:1/5 to Mario Petrinovic on Tue Dec 21 18:26:38 2021
    On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 7:43:16 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 22.12.2021. 0:44, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
    On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:32:30 PM UTC-5, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 15:44, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
    On 20.12.2021. 7:52, I Envy JTEM wrote:
    Mario Petrinovic wrote:

    You could plant seeds of fruits, or whatever, 1.7 my.

    Didn't happen.

    You are talking about storability.

    I was never talking about storability. What I said was that agriculture >>>> changes humans and in ways discernible from the archaeological
    record. "Storage" is just one of the ways we can identify agriculture, >>>> as the harvest must be stored in order to sustain people over the
    coming year, until the next harvest.

    You are asking about settlements made out of what?

    I asked about settlements because settlements are yet more evidence
    of an agricultural society that would be present within the
    archaeological
    record.

    See the pattern now?

    HINT: The common link is archaeology, the evidence.

    Scientists know that people lived in tents and huts. So, this
    is what I am saying, also. But, they are claiming that people moved
    those tents and huts around. Why would they do that, if they could herd >>> animals? Wolves and dogs have herding ability:
    https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_house#Paleolithic_Settlements
    Actually, it is all pretty simple, and we can find traces of such
    behavior even to these days. I just watched some survival video. The guy >> took some chestnuts, but he didn't eat them all, he dug one of them into >> the ground.
    It is well known offering to the gods. Chestnut grows out of the
    ground, so you have to thank the god of the ground for that. Today, just >> the same as 2 million years ago. And the next year the god of the ground >> will give you another chestnut tree.
    Pretty simple, and extremely effective. I don't see a single reason
    why humans wouldn't behave like this.
    Of course, the reason why they wouldn't is always the same, the place
    humans have in Bible, where humans have some special powers, accessible
    to them only later.

    Mario, agriculture began +2ma at coastal rocky shorelines, when marine limpets cleared tidal cliffs of mollusks to grow algae crop on the soaked rocks and Homo watched and helped by using handaxes to scrape mollusks and oysters off and ate them.

    https://evolvopedia.quora.com/What-species-besides-humans-grow-and-harvest-their-own-food
    Hand axes are brittle (and not sharp enough), you cannot perform this
    with hand axes. But, you can scrape mollusks with a mollusk shell, much better.
    This hand axe idea for doing such a tough mechanic job, that comes
    from the AAT community, is stupid, and it paints them as stupid, they
    should abandon it as soon as possible, science isn't a dinner party.

    --
    https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
    human-e...@googlegroups.com
    -

    Mario, agriculture began +2ma at coastal rocky shorelines, when marine limpets cleared tidal cliffs of mollusks to grow algae crop on the soaked rocks and Homo watched and helped by using shells to scrape mollusks and oysters off and ate them.

    https://evolvopedia.quora.com/What-species-besides-humans-grow-and-harvest-their-own-food

    DD

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)