On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Rupert <firstname.lastname@example.org> >wrote:
On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 7:56:52 PM UTC+2, Derek wrote:
The trouble with being an absolutist is that, even though
I can't make any compromises on livestock farming I find it very hard to >>> reject incremental changes to animal welfare which, in essence, keeps
livestock farming alive and thrashing. It's questions like that that put me >>> at a disadvantage. I tend to avoid them.
You think the best strategy is to try to get people to focus on the benefit of an increased sense of self-respect that comes from being vegan?
Yes, I do, even though I don't believe I have the required skill set to put >>> forward a coherent strategy that might work. For me, abstaining from animal >>> products isn't about caring for livestock animals, health, environment or >>> world economics, it's based purely on a sense of dignity. If I reduced the >>> moral value of an animal to that of a utility and used that debasement to >>> bring about a reason to kill and eat it, the result would be that I debased >>> myself further than that of that animal because I should have kept my
self-respect and the dignity that comes with it. It would not feel right to >>> cheat an animal of its life with such a self-interested crime against my own
All right then, so you think about it in terms of self-respect, that's interesting to know.
Do you ever have any issues struggling with immediate family members not being vegan?
All 4 of my children were brought up as strict vegetarians, or vegans to be >more accurate. Only my eldest daughter remained so after leaving home, and >she brought up my grandson as a vegan who is now 17 and he's never eaten
meat of any kind. When my younger daughter came back to the family home for
a while we used to store her meat in our fridge along with our food. My twin >sons started eating meat before they left home, I believe, although they >never brought any home for fear it might hurt my feelings. I don't criticise >any of them for eating meat to any extent beyond occasional mild argument
for argument's sake. They do occasionally like to test new arguments on me >around the dinner table during family get-togethers and, believe it or not, >we've discovered that the only argument worth any merit which gets off the >ground is Harrison's argument. I do have to agree with them in that eating >meat can have the effect of bringing happy lives into the world if livestock >farmers do their job according to strict welfare rules.
Of course, this kind
of vague utilitarian thinking is totally at odds against my de ontological >thinking, but I do give them the credit they deserve for coming to their >conclusion independently without having any knowledge of the term >utilitarianism and its various forms.
Unlike me they intuitively believe
that the best policy is one that can bring about the most happiness in the >world even if, in practice, it brings about a lot of misery, because that >misery isn't part of the original policy and therefore can be disregarded.
They're all in the 30s now, so it's not that easy to quieten them by
changing the subject or dismissing what they want to say out of hand by >telling them their father is always right.
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