I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of
"aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color
of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface
is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface
of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount" (which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp: https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color
of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface
is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface
of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp: https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle.
Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of
"aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color
of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored
toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface
is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface
of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've
looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two storyhouse and the light box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this and say ignore it and forget
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle.
Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of
"aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface
is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface
of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've
looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it
accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter
and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed
from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story house and the light
box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to
the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in
place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this
and say ignore it and forget about it. Its not really noticeable.
And if you think it is noticeable, remember it is a ceiling light. Up
high about 8 feet. Most people's eyes are about 5-5.5 feet high. And
they generally look straight ahead or down. So no one else will see
it. You just flip the light switch and the light appears. You don't
look at the light source and examine it in great detail. Light, no
light.
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and
I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My
neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen
table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may
be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't
be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to
install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I
used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:house and the light box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this and say ignore it and forget
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle.
Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of
"aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface
is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface
of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've
looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and
I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My
neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen
table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the >ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may
be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't
be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the >junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an >adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real >project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about >drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I
have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to
install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I
used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the >stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
On 10/24/2021 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:The twine to hang the weight while tying loose ends is a good idea.
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. >>>> Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of >>>> "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface >>>> is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface >>>> of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've >>>> looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it
accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter
and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed
from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story house and the light
box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to
the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in
place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this
and say ignore it and forget about it. Its not really noticeable.
And if you think it is noticeable, remember it is a ceiling light. Up
high about 8 feet. Most people's eyes are about 5-5.5 feet high. And
they generally look straight ahead or down. So no one else will see
it. You just flip the light switch and the light appears. You don't
look at the light source and examine it in great detail. Light, no
light.
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and
I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My
neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen
table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the
ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may
be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't
be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the
junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an
adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real
project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about
drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I
have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to
install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I
used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the
stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
For some reason I have never thought to do that, it would be nice for
ceiling fans.
What color twine? ;!)My dad, an electrician, used to have a "fixture hanging hook" that
On 10/24/2021 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. >>> Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of >>> "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface >>> is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface >>> of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've >>> looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it
accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter
and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed
from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story house and the light
box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to
the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in
place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this
and say ignore it and forget about it. Its not really noticeable.
And if you think it is noticeable, remember it is a ceiling light. Up
high about 8 feet. Most people's eyes are about 5-5.5 feet high. And
they generally look straight ahead or down. So no one else will see
it. You just flip the light switch and the light appears. You don't
look at the light source and examine it in great detail. Light, no
light.
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and
I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may
be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't
be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
The twine to hang the weight while tying loose ends is a good idea.
For some reason I have never thought to do that, it would be nice for
ceiling fans.
What color twine? ;!)
On 10/23/2021 3:06 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/23/2021 12:46 PM, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle.
Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that
of "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the
color of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a
colored toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some
toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling
surface is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the
surface of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as
"semi-flush mount" (which may have implications--I can only guess at
what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today!
--I've looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Electrical fixtures are NEVER flat, round, or square.
If you have to stare at it to notice it, don't look at it for a monthI agree, It is like painting. When YOU look at it critically you will
and see if it still bothers you then.
find all types of small imperfections.
However no one but you will ever notice it unless YOU point it out.
What color twine? ;!)
The outlets in the other room connected to the lighting circuit in
that room is "common practice" in houses of that age with a "drop leg"
switch setup for the light. The lamp is not powered through the switch
- the neutral (generally) for the lampis "dropped" to / through the
switch - meaning the socket is always "live". sometimes it is the
"live" that is dropped to the switch - where it MAY end up feeding
another outlet (or lamp circuit)
On 10/24/2021 6:07 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:I believe there is a movement in code regulators to discourage or
The outlets in the other room connected to the lighting circuit in
that room is "common practice" in houses of that age with a "drop leg"
switch setup for the light. The lamp is not powered through the switch
- the neutral (generally) for the lampis "dropped" to / through the
switch - meaning the socket is always "live". sometimes it is the
"live" that is dropped to the switch - where it MAY end up feeding
another outlet (or lamp circuit)
Yes, the neutral was "pig-tailed".
At the time, I thought turning off the breaker and turning off the
switch was making me "double safe" but at this point it sounds that the >positive would have been hot if I had only turned off the switch
(something I would never do, but I know of others who take shortcuts
like that). Thank you very much Clare for familiarizing me with what was >really going on there! You say it was "common practice in that age".
Do they not typically do that anymore?
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-5, keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net wrote:of paint. So I have lots of mismatches all over the house. Every time I walk into a room, my eyes instantly go to the mismatched paint spots and less than perfect (HA) drywall patches. And I curse inside. But probably no one else notices them.
On 10/23/2021 3:06 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/23/2021 12:46 PM, Bill wrote:I agree, It is like painting. When YOU look at it critically you will
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle.
Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that
of "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the
color of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a
colored toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some
toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling
surface is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the
surface of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as
"semi-flush mount" (which may have implications--I can only guess at
what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today!
--I've looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Electrical fixtures are NEVER flat, round, or square.
If you have to stare at it to notice it, don't look at it for a month
and see if it still bothers you then.
find all types of small imperfections.
However no one but you will ever notice it unless YOU point it out.
Oh YES. I have made many drywall fixes and repaints of the patch. And nail hole fixes painted over, after filling with drywall. And some of my paint is not original. I had to have it matched at the store. Home Depot. They DO NOT do a perfect match
On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 11:12:56 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 10/24/2021 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:The twine to hang the weight while tying loose ends is a good idea.
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. >> >>> Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of >> >>> "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >> >>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >> >>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface >> >>> is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface >> >>> of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've >> >>> looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it
accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter
and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed
from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story house and the light
box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to
the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in
place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this
and say ignore it and forget about it. Its not really noticeable.
And if you think it is noticeable, remember it is a ceiling light. Up
high about 8 feet. Most people's eyes are about 5-5.5 feet high. And
they generally look straight ahead or down. So no one else will see
it. You just flip the light switch and the light appears. You don't
look at the light source and examine it in great detail. Light, no
light.
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and >> > I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My
neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen
table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the
ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may >> > be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't >> > be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the
junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an
adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real
project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about
drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I
have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to
install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I
used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the >> > stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
For some reason I have never thought to do that, it would be nice for
ceiling fans.
What color twine? ;!)
The last ceiling fan that I hung (Kirchner) was designed to hang by itself >while you wired it. It used a "ball and socket" design as shown below.
Very easy install and I think the ball helps "auto balance" the fan. All I know
is that it has absolutely no wobble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tImRTP1Vfxg&t=160s
On 10/24/2021 11:12 AM, Leon wrote:
What color twine? ;!)
By the way, two 100W (13.5W) bulbs really lights up the place, and the
shaded globe provides a new ambiance dimming at low levels.
My wife asked me why the cracked tile in front the refrigerator doesn't >bother me so much! ; ) It's on "my list"... Maybe it will be a
good wintertime project? Due to "shifting" I think, there is more than
one that needs replacement. I already "did my homework" and detailed
the materials required and the process, probably 2 years ago...maybe
2022 will be the year--if I can locate the sheet of paper on which I
wrote it all down! : )
The Fanimation fans I've installed are similar. You're lucky. The
ball doesn't help a but. The fan still needs to be balanced. It's
not really that hard to do if hung from a horizontal ceiling. Not
sure how it to do it with a sloped ceiling.
On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:47:35 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:house and the light box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this and say ignore it and forget
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. >>>> Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of >>>> "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :)
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface >>>> is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe
that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar
for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface >>>> of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount"
(which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me
with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or
suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired
up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to
make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've >>>> looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story
The outlets in the other room connected to the lighting circuit in
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and
I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My >>neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen >>table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I
feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that
may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is
that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the >>ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may
be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't
be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the >>junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an >>adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected
but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I
wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any
the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real >>project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about >>drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I >>have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to >>install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the
stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so
and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I
saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I >>used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the >>stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc
leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
that room is "common practice" in houses of that age with a "drop leg"
switch setup for the light. The lamp is not powered through the switch
- the neutral (generally) for the lampis "dropped" to / through the
switch - meaning the socket is always "live". sometimes it is the
"live" that is dropped to the switch - where it MAY end up feeding
another outlet (or lamp circuit)
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:13:57 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
The Fanimation fans I've installed are similar. You're lucky. The
ball doesn't help a but. The fan still needs to be balanced. It's
not really that hard to do if hung from a horizontal ceiling. Not
sure how it to do it with a sloped ceiling.
Sloped ceilings require a different mount for the ball to fit in.
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:19:23 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 15:13:57 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
The Fanimation fans I've installed are similar. You're lucky. The
ball doesn't help a but. The fan still needs to be balanced. It's
not really that hard to do if hung from a horizontal ceiling. Not
sure how it to do it with a sloped ceiling.
Sloped ceilings require a different mount for the ball to fit in.
Depends on the slope but that doesn't help balancing the blades. The
problem is the same.
I suppose with a sloped ceiling one could just measure in one place
and turn the blade to find the high one.
Yes, the neutral was "pig-tailed".
At the time, I thought turning off the breaker and turning off the
switch was making me "double safe" but at this point it sounds that the positive would have been hot if I had only turned off the switch
(something I would never do, but I know of others who take shortcuts
like that). Thank you very much Clare for familiarizing me with what was really going on there! You say it was "common practice in that age".
Do they not typically do that anymore?
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
G Ross <gwross@comwest.net> wrote in news:ZKidnagb8770ier8nZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote in
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
In this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Clare Snyder wrote:house and the light box is in the ceiling of the ground floor and you have no access to the screws holding the box to the joists. So the box is fixed in place, unmovable. I'm probably going to go along with Leon on this and say ignore it and forget
On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:47:35 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
On 10/23/2021 5:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I installed my first ceiling lamp today.
It works, and my wife is happy, but when I
look at it critically, I can see it's not 100% level from every angle. >>>>> Slightly loosening one of the two ball nuts helped quite a bit,
and that got me thinking that there should probably be be a shim
to compensate. But the edge of the "canopy", which is against the
ceiling, is only "sheet metal thin". The color of the canopy is that of >>>>> "aged brass" (there is link to the retailer's photo below) and the color >>>>> of the ceiling is some version of white, so I can't just stick a colored >>>>> toothpick under the edge ...maybe I should stain some toothpicks? :) >>>>>
The junction box and ceiling are "as I found them". The ceiling surface >>>>> is that "fake" stucco--rather old at that. And surely
the ceiling is not uniformly planar throughout. And I think I would
point to that as a possible source of my leveling problem. I believe >>>>> that the new ring I attached to the junction box (in place of the bar >>>>> for the old lamp which was there) lies slightly higher than the surface >>>>> of the ceiling. The retailer describes the lamp as "semi-flush mount" >>>>> (which may have implications--I can only guess at what that means).
Folks here have been very helpful and kind with regard to helping me >>>>> with "homeowner hurdles" like this. Does anyone have any comments or >>>>> suggestions for this? Shimming techniques? Now that I've got it wired >>>>> up with the shade adjusted and all, it wouldn't be that difficult to >>>>> make small adjustments (as long as I don't have to do it today! --I've >>>>> looked at it enough today! : ) )
Thank you!
Bill
In case it may help, here is the retailers photo of the lamp:
https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/flush-mount-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-emily-aged-bronze-2-light-semi-flush-mount-ceiling-light/70377rob/p-1444424916746.htm
Do you have access to the electrical box itself? Meaning is it accessible in the attic and you can unscrew it from the ceiling rafter and move the box up a tiny bit so it is flush or slightly recessed from the ceiling drywall. Or is it a two story
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutralThe outlets in the other room connected to the lighting circuit in
As far as the attic, the single story house has a "convoluted" roof, and >>>I have never seen a direct way to get to that part of the attic. It
would be within 4 feel of where eave troughs meet at a corner. My >>>neighbor, who bought his house within 2 weeks of when I bought mine,
fell through his ceiling within the first week, landing on his kitchen >>>table. I tread lightly.
: )
There seems to be a consensus the I should wait 30 days and see how I >>>feel about it, and I am quite willing to try that. The only thing that >>>may make this "imperfection" slightly more noticeable than average is >>>that the lamp is fairly large (it is 18" wide and it hangs 18" from the >>>ceiling). Sometime my desire for perfection is a hindrance, and this may >>>be one of those times. The house is over 50 years old and this wouldn't >>>be its first or only imperfection.
By the way, going back to my first paragraph above, to my surprise, the >>>junction box also contains wiring which pigtails to the outlets in an >>>adjacent room (it helps confirm a history of the house that I suspected >>>but won't go into here). When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed
it by saying "That's how the neighbor's house is!". But the point I >>>wanted to make is that I don't want to "open the door" to rehashing any >>>the complexity of what lies in that junction box. If I needed to do it,
I could remove some of the ceiling and really open the door to a real >>>project. Despite the nice things I said in an earlier thread about >>>drywalling, thank you, but no! ; ) I should count my blessings that I >>>have a new lamp that works, and that I have acquired the expertise to >>>install it, such as it is. The previous installer just wrapped the >>>stranded ground wire around the pig-tailed ground a few times, I did so >>>and added a wire nut! : )
To try to contribute something back to the group, I will share a tip I >>>saw used only once a long time ago and I found it very helpful today. I >>>used twine to suspend my lamp to within a few inches of the junction
box. That turned out to be very convenient for wiring and it reduced the >>>stressing on my wire connections while iterating through my adhoc >>>leveling process.
Thank you all Very Much for your support! : )
Bill
that room is "common practice" in houses of that age with a "drop leg"
switch setup for the light. The lamp is not powered through the switch
- the neutral (generally) for the lampis "dropped" to / through the
switch - meaning the socket is always "live". sometimes it is the
"live" that is dropped to the switch - where it MAY end up feeding
another outlet (or lamp circuit)
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some builders.
Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote in news:gqtdJ.15316$gU7.1638@fx39.iad:
Yes, the neutral was "pig-tailed".
At the time, I thought turning off the breaker and turning off the
switch was making me "double safe" but at this point it sounds that the
positive would have been hot if I had only turned off the switch
(something I would never do, but I know of others who take shortcuts
like that). Thank you very much Clare for familiarizing me with what was
really going on there! You say it was "common practice in that age".
Do they not typically do that anymore?
I did that once... I didn't have access to the circuit panel but needed to >move some outlets. Turns out they were controlled by the wall switch and I >was able to safely move them by turning the switch off. You better believe
I watched that switch like a hawk!
Always verify power is off. If you use a non-contact voltage detector, you >can set the detector up to show power is on, then have a helper shut off >power, then turn it back on again, then back off. That will help prevent a >false "off" indication. (I never fully trust those things to show power is >OFF, only on.)
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 10:09:20 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
This was 40+ years ago. Still somewhat of a rookie and still a trusting person. Now
I follow Reagan's advice. "Doveryai, no proveryai."
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on
the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school. The current went in one hand, across my chest and out of the other, until 2 other students pulled the plug. I lifted the 20 lb power supply off
of the worktable like it was a feather and couldn't let go. I was yelling "Turn
it off! Turn it off!" I have the burn scars on my left hand as a reminder.
It took 2 people to pull the plug because one guy grabbed the cord and the power strip came up with it. Another guy slapped the power strip down and the plug came out. I saw the whole thing and remember it vividly to this day.
I went to the infirmary for the night and when I went back to class the next day
there were 2 changes:
1 - Three guys had quit ET school. They basically said "Nope. Not me. The Guard
will just have to find me another job."
2 - All of the power strips were screwed down to the worktables. ;-)
I went on to work on mega-watt transmitters with 15KV-DC power supplies.
I don't recall what the guys that quit school ended up doing.
On 10/28/2021 12:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school. The current went in one hand, across my chest and out of the other, until 2 other students pulled the plug. I lifted the 20 lb power supply off
of the worktable like it was a feather and couldn't let go. I was yelling "Turn
it off! Turn it off!" I have the burn scars on my left hand as a reminder.
It took 2 people to pull the plug because one guy grabbed the cord and the power strip came up with it. Another guy slapped the power strip down and the
plug came out. I saw the whole thing and remember it vividly to this day.
I went to the infirmary for the night and when I went back to class the next day
there were 2 changes:
1 - Three guys had quit ET school. They basically said "Nope. Not me. The Guard
will just have to find me another job."
2 - All of the power strips were screwed down to the worktables. ;-)
I went on to work on mega-watt transmitters with 15KV-DC power supplies.
I don't recall what the guys that quit school ended up doing.
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was
pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting a
dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I sat
the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there would
have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it
was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado sets
take a while to stop spinning.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >There seem to be too many "accidents" here.Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is
not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I
know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the
chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I
could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful
investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do >those things.
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there
was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
Widely circulating reports say that crew had been using that same weapon
for target practice earlier in the day/week.
And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on
the set?
Not being expert in guns, I'm going to suspect that blanks have enough >discharge that using them in regular weapons is standard.
Certainly I
have seen calls for stopping the use of blanks, and doing it all with
special effects in post-production since this incident. A switch like
that would bring a lot of safety benefits, like use of weapons that
can't actually fire. I've handled a stage production gun with a
completely solid barrel and warning against loading it stamped onto the
side. It seemed like a regular production weapon with the barrel
switched out.
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
It does seem like the producer(s) skimped a lot on safety.
Elijah
------
rules and regulations are written in blood, as they say
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >> >>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >> >>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >> >>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed
him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 11:21:19 -0400, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had beenHow many people (not in the trades) who aren't woodworkers do home
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
repairs? I'll bet it's not many.
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of >folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored ringsRemembering resistors color codes is easy. I wouldn't have remembered
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
them if not for...
0 = Black Bad
1 = Brown Boys
2 = Red Rape
3 = Orange Our
4 = Yellow Young
5 = Green Girls
6 = Blue But
7 = Violet Violet
8 = Gray Gives
9 = White Willingly
5% Gold Get
10% Silver Some
20% None Now
There is also a red tolerance band (2%) but it was fairly rare.
Still measured in ohms (what else) but the color code is almost gone.
I haven't seen a leaded carbon resistor in probably 30 years, and more
than forty since I've used one. Surface mount resistors rarely have
any markings at all, though some zero-ohm resistors have a '0'
stenciled on the top.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed
him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:As a teenager (and younger) back in the sixties I did a lot of
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days >when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school. The current went in one hand, across my chest and out of the >other, until 2 other students pulled the plug. I lifted the 20 lb power supply off
of the worktable like it was a feather and couldn't let go. I was yelling "Turn
it off! Turn it off!" I have the burn scars on my left hand as a reminder.
It took 2 people to pull the plug because one guy grabbed the cord and the >power strip came up with it. Another guy slapped the power strip down and the >plug came out. I saw the whole thing and remember it vividly to this day.
I went to the infirmary for the night and when I went back to class the next day
there were 2 changes:
1 - Three guys had quit ET school. They basically said "Nope. Not me. The Guard
will just have to find me another job."
2 - All of the power strips were screwed down to the worktables. ;-)
I went on to work on mega-watt transmitters with 15KV-DC power supplies.
I don't recall what the guys that quit school ended up doing.
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >>>>>> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. ApparentlyHe was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed
him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post >production.
The "american gun culture" where letting off steam on lunch break by
popping a few caps - on a movie set yet -- using "prop guns". Tell me
what world you live in where that is "smart" or even "acceptable".
Alec was "assured" it was a "cold gun" by those who were in charge of
making sure it was. Not his fault - but I still wouldn't want to be
him - - -
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not
familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post production.
The "american gun culture" where letting off steam on lunch break by
popping a few caps - on a movie set yet -- using "prop guns". Tell me
what world you live in where that is "smart" or even "acceptable".
Alec was "assured" it was a "cold gun" by those who were in charge of
making sure it was. Not his fault - but I still wouldn't want to be
him - - -
On 10/28/21 3:24 PM, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>> some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed
him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>> the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>> not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
I disagree that there is any enumeration of the four basic firearm
safety rules. Provided that 3 of 4 rules are followed, there should be
no reason for a negligent discharge. If only one rule is broken. all
still should be safe.
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
I contend that the sex of the armorer is irrelevant.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 20:50:50 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post
production.
Special effects aren't needed. Simple gun safety is.
The "american gun culture" where letting off steam on lunch break by
popping a few caps - on a movie set yet -- using "prop guns". Tell me
what world you live in where that is "smart" or even "acceptable".
Who said it was "acceptable"? That, alone, should have gotten
everyone fired before the accident. The armorer should never have let
that happen. Set safety was her job.
Alec was "assured" it was a "cold gun" by those who were in charge of
making sure it was. Not his fault - but I still wouldn't want to be
him - - -
Assurances mean nothing. No, it *was* his fault. He shot her. One
cannot shift the responsibility of safely handling a gun to someone
else. The armorer should have cleared the gun and Baldwin should have checked it again. ...and anyone touching the gun should have checked
it's safety. Obviously Baldwin had never had any gun training -
foolish.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:24:24 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently >>>>there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>>some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed >>>him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>>familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>>the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>>not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
Try going into a guns store an point a gun at someone, even after the >salesman and you have checked that it's not loaded. No, you don't
point a gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot. There was no reason
to point it at the stage crew. If it had been another actor in a
scene, _maybe_.
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
That's my understanding, as well. From what I've read, the whole set
was pretty loose wrt safety. The whole production sounded like a
disaster right from the beginning.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:40:35 -0700, Beeper <beeper@acme.com> wrote:
On 10/28/21 3:24 PM, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>>> some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed >>>> him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>>> the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>>> not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
I disagree that there is any enumeration of the four basic firearm
safety rules. Provided that 3 of 4 rules are followed, there should be
no reason for a negligent discharge. If only one rule is broken. all
still should be safe.
But what is the first thing you do when you pick up a firearm?
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
I contend that the sex of the armorer is irrelevant.
It is but the report that the armorer is female is a fact, was
correcting the gender that krw put in.
Fools come in all genders.
On 10/28/21 3:24 PM, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>> some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed
him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>> the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>> not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my
mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
I disagree that there is any enumeration of the four basic firearm
safety rules. Provided that 3 of 4 rules are followed, there should be
no reason for a negligent discharge. If only one rule is broken. all
still should be safe.
I believe the armorer is female, but the reports seem to point to her
being lax when it comes to firearms safety.
I contend that the sex of the armorer is irrelevant.
In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is
not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I
know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the
chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I
could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful
investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do >those things.
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there
was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
Widely circulating reports say that crew had been using that same weapon
for target practice earlier in the day/week.
And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on
the set?
Not being expert in guns, I'm going to suspect that blanks have enough >discharge that using them in regular weapons is standard. Certainly I
have seen calls for stopping the use of blanks, and doing it all with
special effects in post-production since this incident. A switch like
that would bring a lot of safety benefits, like use of weapons that
can't actually fire. I've handled a stage production gun with a
completely solid barrel and warning against loading it stamped onto the
side. It seemed like a regular production weapon with the barrel
switched out.
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
It does seem like the producer(s) skimped a lot on safety.
Elijah
------
rules and regulations are written in blood, as they say
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first weekWow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
of ET school.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
On 10/28/2021 7:50 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Actually he was pointing the gun directly at the dead persons chest!On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not
familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post production.
There was nothing general about that.
And while using "pointing in a general direction" might be an excuse, it
is a horrible excuse. It borders on stupidity.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only >>>>>> flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And
exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set?
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not
familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post production.
The "american gun culture" where letting off steam on lunch break by
popping a few caps - on a movie set yet -- using "prop guns". Tell me
what world you live in where that is "smart" or even "acceptable".
Alec was "assured" it was a "cold gun" by those who were in charge of
making sure it was. Not his fault - but I still wouldn't want to be
him - - -
On 10/28/21 5:50 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who >>>>>>> comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the >>>>>>>>> neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60
years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is
that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I
had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door.
She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I
touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you
can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that
"turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>> some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do
not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post
production.
The "american gun culture" where letting off steam on lunch break by
popping a few caps - on a movie set yet -- using "prop guns". Tell me
what world you live in where that is "smart" or even "acceptable".
Alec was "assured" it was a "cold gun" by those who were in charge of
making sure it was. Not his fault - but I still wouldn't want to be
him - - -
As executive producer, Baldwin is responsible for what occurs on the
set. He is responsible for the safety of the environment and crew. He is responsible for hiring a negligent armorer who did not secure the
weapons. Baldwin is not solely responsible, but he is certainly partly culpable.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:20:05 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is
not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I
know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the
chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I
could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful
investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do
those things.
If there's an armorer on set one can ask the armorer questions like
"How do I clear this firearm" and "how do I distinguish a blank from a
live round".
And there _should_ be a general rule "Before I point this firearm at
this other actor and pull the trigger, I am going to point it at _you_
(the armorer) and pull the trigger."
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there
was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
Widely circulating reports say that crew had been using that same weapon
for target practice earlier in the day/week.
And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on
the set?
Not being expert in guns, I'm going to suspect that blanks have enough
discharge that using them in regular weapons is standard.
have seen calls for stopping the use of blanks, and doing it all with
special effects in post-production since this incident. A switch like
that would bring a lot of safety benefits, like use of weapons that
can't actually fire. I've handled a stage production gun with a
completely solid barrel and warning against loading it stamped onto the
side. It seemed like a regular production weapon with the barrel
switched out.
There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
It does seem like the producer(s) skimped a lot on safety.
Elijah
------
rules and regulations are written in blood, as they say
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 10:23:54 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 7:50 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Actually he was pointing the gun directly at the dead persons chest!
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:He was pointing the gun in the general firection of the camera,
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently
there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously
some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>> familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And
the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>> not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
apparently - in hindsight should have used "special effects" in post
production.
There was nothing general about that.
And while using "pointing in a general direction" might be an excuse, it
is a horrible excuse. It borders on stupidity.
Would it have been OK if he pointed the gun at the ceiling lamp during install? ;-)
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of >>>> folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not >>>> be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days >>> when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be impressed about.
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would
not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG
days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical shock."
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want toI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him
that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it
would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my
USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first
week
of ET school.
the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before
taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him
that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop
class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect >>>>>>> for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored
rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it
would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of
ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my
USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>>> week
of ET school.
tell the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not
"necessarily" mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell
the story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to "electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:40:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of >electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
One thing I learn about getting shocked, you do more damage to your
hand by pulling it back through the chassis than the electrical shock
causes.
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of >>>> folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not >>>> be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical shock."
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell >>>> the
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him
that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it
would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my
USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>> week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off."Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to "electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal.
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell >>>>>> the
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>> that he
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it
would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my
USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>>>> week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>> mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal.
Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your implication that I was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an implication that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent animation.
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical shock."Already did. Many times.
Oxford, Merriam-Webster, freedictionary.com, Wikipedia and others
include the word "injury" when defining electrocution.
To be more precise...
from: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/electrocution
**** Begin Included Text ****
Baha Al-Shaikh FCARCSI, FRCA, Simon Stacey FRCA, in Essentials of Anaesthetic Equipment (Fourth Edition), 2013
The effects of electrocution
As a general guide to the effects of electrocution, the following might occur:
1. 1 mA: tingling pain.
2. 5 mA: pain.
3. 15 mA: tonic muscle contraction and pain.
4. 50 mA: tonic contraction of respiratory muscles and respiratory arrest. 5. 75–100 mA: ventricular fibrillation.
6. 1000 mA: extensive burns and charring.
**** End Included Text ****
I experienced tonic muscle contraction and pain with some tissue burning and perhaps some ventricular fibrillation. The infirmary kept me overnight based on
heart rate abnormalities recorded soon after the incident. The medical report and
after-incident report both included the word "electrocution".
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell >>>> the
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him
that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it
would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my
USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>> week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off."Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to "electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal.
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched
anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
G Ross<gwross@comwest.net> wrote in news:ZKidnagb8770ier8nZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched
anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the >breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> writes:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the >>breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Do not do that.
Use a voltmeter to test the leads.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:40:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of >>electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
One thing I learn about getting shocked, you do more damage to your
hand by pulling it back through the chassis than the electrical shock
causes.
On 10/28/2021 3:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes >>>>>>> in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>>>>>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
Blanks and live rounds can/are of the same caliber.
And past that it is not uncommon to use a different caliber bullet.
.38 rounds can be discharged in a .357 caliber gun.
On 10/28/2021 9:16 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:20:05 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is
not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I
know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the
chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I
could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful
investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do >>> those things.
If you do not know how to safely handle a gun you have absolutely NO
BUSINESS touching it.
Thoughts and ideas like you mentioned is what gives fire arms a bed >reputation.
You might as well have an actor, playing a role as the one pressing a
real nuke button, and using a real nuke. Lives are at stake.
The finger that pulls the trigger is the guilty finger.
If there's an armorer on set one can ask the armorer questions like
"How do I clear this firearm" and "how do I distinguish a blank from a
live round".
I would not trust the armorer either. Obviously the armorer was clueless.
Go to fire arm training before going to the set if you are not familiar
with fire arms.
And there _should_ be a general rule "Before I point this firearm at
this other actor and pull the trigger, I am going to point it at _you_
(the armorer) and pull the trigger."
Well I understate your sentiment, but that action would be just just as >stupid. The object is to not harm any one.
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there
was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
Yes and mostly at fault because he pointed the gun a person AND when he
did not insure that the gun was safe. YOU DO NOT leave this
responsibility to anyone but yourself.
In a more sinister scenario the one pulling the trigger could easily
load the gun with a live round after being handed the gun and blame the >armorer.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
Simple, the armorer did not remove all live rounds before reloading
with blanks.
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school.
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/29/21 10:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell >>>>>>> the
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>>> that he
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it >>>>>>>>> would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my >>>>>>>> USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>>>>> week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>>> mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal.
Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your implication that I >> was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an implication >> that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent animation.
Someone needs a nap.
Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> writes:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the >>breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Do not do that.
Use a voltmeter to test the leads.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:49:26 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:40:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical >>>> shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>>mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of >>>electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
One thing I learn about getting shocked, you do more damage to your
hand by pulling it back through the chassis than the electrical shock >>causes.
Pulling your hand back is a good thing but certainly not the worst
thing that can happen. AC tends to send you on your butt. DC clamps
the hand and doesn't let the reflex send you on your butt. AC will
cause fibrillation, which isn't good either. The best option is two
hands behind the back. If that's not possible, at least one. ;-)
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:32:11 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 3:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral >>>>>>>>>> shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
Blanks and live rounds can/are of the same caliber.
That's a problem. There is no reason that a prop gun couldn't be a
smaller caliber. I was talking to a cow-orker who used to work with
another company making targets for the military. They had normal guns
with solid barrels. It's not hard to machine one. I live bullet
would make a mess but at least it's the numbnuts who fired the gun who becomes the mess.
And past that it is not uncommon to use a different caliber bullet.
.38 rounds can be discharged in a .357 caliber gun.
.223/5.56 NATO
On 10/29/21 7:00 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:32:11 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 3:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:57:48 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:How did they fit them in the chamber?
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day. >>>>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Blanks and live rounds can/are of the same caliber.
That's a problem. There is no reason that a prop gun couldn't be a
smaller caliber. I was talking to a cow-orker who used to work with
another company making targets for the military. They had normal guns
with solid barrels. It's not hard to machine one. I live bullet
would make a mess but at least it's the numbnuts who fired the gun who
becomes the mess.
And past that it is not uncommon to use a different caliber bullet.
.38 rounds can be discharged in a .357 caliber gun.
.223/5.56 NATO
Oh, don't go down that rabbit hole... [many ;-)]
"5.56 vs .223: Whats the Difference? Does it Matter?" >https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/5-56-vs-223/
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:07:03 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:49:26 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:40:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical >>>>> shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>>>mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>>story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of >>>>electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
One thing I learn about getting shocked, you do more damage to your
hand by pulling it back through the chassis than the electrical shock >>>causes.
Pulling your hand back is a good thing but certainly not the worst
thing that can happen. AC tends to send you on your butt. DC clamps
the hand and doesn't let the reflex send you on your butt. AC will
cause fibrillation, which isn't good either. The best option is two
hands behind the back. If that's not possible, at least one. ;-)
Neither were possible checking the voltage on the gun on a F-4, 351
dc, if it was raining you were going to get shocked, if it was not
raining you probably got shocked 50% of the time.
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 5:54:26 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 11:21:19 -0400, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:How many people (not in the trades) who aren't woodworkers do home
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
repairs? I'll bet it's not many.
What is your definition of both key words? "Woodworkers" and "repairs".
Within my circle of acquaintances (family, friends, coworkers) I'm probably the
only true "woodworker" of the bunch. i.e. I have a shop and tools mainly oriented
around woodworking. Table saw, band saw, planer, CMS, dust collection, etc. >I've built bookcases, beds, decks, cabinets, etc.
However, we all do home repair, remodeling, etc. One friend did a phenomenal job
landscaping and hardscaping around his pool, tiling his bathroom, putting in vinyl
flooring throughout his house, installing one of those rustic wood plank accent walls,
etc. Another completely gutted/renovated his master bathroom, expanding it by >incorporating a closet. That's just a couple of examples.
But, they've never built a bookcase, bed, cabinet, cutting board, etc. None of the
things a typical woodworker might build.
I have no reason to believe that my circle of friends is any different from the general
public. I suspect it's the exact opposite of what you suspect: Amongst the millions
of people who do their own home repairs, I'll bet the number of true woodworkers is
is relatively small.
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception ofRemembering resistors color codes is easy. I wouldn't have remembered
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
them if not for...
0 = Black Bad
1 = Brown Boys
2 = Red Rape
3 = Orange Our
4 = Yellow Young
5 = Green Girls
6 = Blue But
7 = Violet Violet
8 = Gray Gives
9 = White Willingly
5% Gold Get
10% Silver Some
20% None Now
There is also a red tolerance band (2%) but it was fairly rare.
Unfortunately, I learned the same offensive technique for remembering the colors.
Yes, I learned it in the service, but I blame the man who taught me, not the service
itself. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a 0, 1 who 2'd, 3, 4, 5.
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 20:58:27 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:24:24 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:37:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:39:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:57 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:09:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:01:27 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross <gwr...@comwest.net> wrote inIn this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8...@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some >>>>>>>>>>> builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only
flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the >>>>>>>>> breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And >>>>>> exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? >>>>>> There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently >>>>>there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Yikes! It sounds like several should be charged with manslaughter.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously >>>>>some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
It's the armorer's job. He "said" the gun was cold. Baldwin believed >>>>him. There's enough guilt to fill several courtrooms.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not >>>>>familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And >>>>>the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do >>>>>not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
Absolutely. Aim to shoot. Shoot to kill. If you don't intend to
kill, leave the gun where it is.
I would disagree with Leon's number one rule, but it is second in my >>>mind. Number one rule if you pick up a firearm assume it is loaded
until you verify it is not.
Try going into a guns store an point a gun at someone, even after the >>salesman and you have checked that it's not loaded. No, you don't
point a gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot. There was no reason
to point it at the stage crew. If it had been another actor in a
scene, _maybe_.
Not that stupid, I treat firearms with the respect they deserve, as
well as people.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:05:42 -0700, Beeper <beeper@acme.com> wrote:
On 10/29/21 10:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your implication that I >>> was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an implication
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote: >>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell >>>>>>>> the
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>>>> that he
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the >>>>>>>>>> exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it >>>>>>>>>> would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my >>>>>>>>> USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first >>>>>>>>> week
of ET school.
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily" >>>>> mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing:
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the
humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being anal. >>>
that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent animation.
Someone needs a nap.
AND GET OFF MY LAWN!
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the
exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would >>>>>> not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG >>>>> days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's
nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not "necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response,
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:From the free dictionary
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >> >> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >> >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >> >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >> >>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >> >>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >> >>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of >> >>>> folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >> >>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not >> >>>> be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >> >>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >> >>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be
impressed about.
shock."
Already did. Many times.
Oxford, Merriam-Webster, freedictionary.com, Wikipedia and others
include the word "injury" when defining electrocution.
To be more precise...
from: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/electrocution
**** Begin Included Text ****
Baha Al-Shaikh FCARCSI, FRCA, Simon Stacey FRCA, in Essentials of
Anaesthetic Equipment (Fourth Edition), 2013
The effects of electrocution
As a general guide to the effects of electrocution, the following might occur:
1. 1 mA: tingling pain.
2. 5 mA: pain.
3. 15 mA: tonic muscle contraction and pain.
4. 50 mA: tonic contraction of respiratory muscles and respiratory arrest.
5. 75100 mA: ventricular fibrillation.
6. 1000 mA: extensive burns and charring.
**** End Included Text ****
I experienced tonic muscle contraction and pain with some tissue burning and >perhaps some ventricular fibrillation. The infirmary kept me overnight based on
heart rate abnormalities recorded soon after the incident. The medical report and
after-incident report both included the word "electrocution".
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched
anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
On 10/29/21 7:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:05:42 -0700, Beeper <beeper@acme.com> wrote:
On 10/29/21 10:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to >>>>>>>>> tell
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to >>>>>>>>>>>> be anI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>>>>> that he
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in >>>>>>>>>>> shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just
rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that >>>>>>>>>>> respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation >>>>>>>>>>> of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the >>>>>>>>>>> exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the
colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it >>>>>>>>>>> would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms >>>>>>>>>>> of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my >>>>>>>>>> USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my >>>>>>>>>> first
week
of ET school.
the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's >>>>>>>> nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not
"necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response, >>>>>>
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to
tell the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing: >>>>>
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the >>>>> humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being
anal.
Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your implication
that I
was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an
implication
that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent animation.
Someone needs a nap.
AND GET OFF MY LAWN!
More like "GET OUT OF MY SANDBOX!" I will state that Leon seems to have
a reasonable and pragmatic sense of humor.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:From the free dictionary
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>>>> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been >>>>>>> teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>>>>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>>>>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his >>>>>>> eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>>>>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the >>>>>>> craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even >>>>>>> drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of >>>>>>> folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>>>>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not >>>>>>> be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>>>>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>>>>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be
impressed about.
shock."
Already did. Many times.
Oxford, Merriam-Webster, freedictionary.com, Wikipedia and others
include the word "injury" when defining electrocution.
To be more precise...
from: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/electrocution
**** Begin Included Text ****
Baha Al-Shaikh FCARCSI, FRCA, Simon Stacey FRCA, in Essentials of
Anaesthetic Equipment (Fourth Edition), 2013
The effects of electrocution
As a general guide to the effects of electrocution, the following might occur:
1. 1 mA: tingling pain.
2. 5 mA: pain.
3. 15 mA: tonic muscle contraction and pain.
4. 50 mA: tonic contraction of respiratory muscles and respiratory arrest. >> 5. 75–100 mA: ventricular fibrillation.
6. 1000 mA: extensive burns and charring.
**** End Included Text ****
I experienced tonic muscle contraction and pain with some tissue burning and >> perhaps some ventricular fibrillation. The infirmary kept me overnight based on
heart rate abnormalities recorded soon after the incident. The medical report and
after-incident report both included the word "electrocution".
e·lec·tro·cute (i-lek'tr?-kyo?ot')
tr.v. e·lec·tro·cut·ed, e·lec·tro·cut·ing, e·lec·tro·cutes
1. To kill with electricity: a worker who was electrocuted by a
high-tension wire.
2. To execute (a person sentenced to death) by means of electricity.
From Merriam Webster:
Definition of electrocute
transitive verb
1: to kill or severely injure by electric shock
From the Cambridge Dictionary:
electrocute
verb [ T often passive ]
UK /i'lek.tr?.kju?t/ US /i'lek.tr?.kju?t/
to kill someone by causing electricity to flow through their body:
He was electrocuted when he touched the bare wires.
from https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/electrocuted
electrocute (redirected from electrocuted)
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus.
Related to electrocuted: electric shock
e·lec·tro·cute (e-lek'tro-kyut),
To cause death by the passage of an electric current through the body. [electro- + execute]
From Wikidiff
As verbs the difference between electrocute and shock. is that
electrocute is to cause death from immediate complications resulting
from electric shock while shock is to cause to be emotionally shocked
also:
https://www.patrickkphillips.com/grammar/electrocution-means-death... 2015-12-15 · Electrocution, in its traditional meaning, requires
death. Electrocution was always a fatal event. Otherwise, it was
merely a bad shock. The word electrocute was coined in 1889, according
to Etymonline.com, and meant “to execute by electricity.”.
and:
Lester AH Critchley, in Oh's Intensive Care Manual (Seventh Edition),
2014
Epidemiology
Most cases of electrocution occur either in the workplace (about 60%)
or at home (about 30%).6 Most data on the incidence of electrocution
come from North America, though significant regional differences exist worldwide. Children under 6 years are most at risk from domestic electrocution, but with greater electrical safety awareness and the
use of ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs), the oral burns once
seen from chewing power cords are much less common.7 Young adult
Caucasian men are the most likely victims of electrocution in the
workplace. Power-lines and electrified railway tracks are the most
common causes of high-voltage injuries.
Al;so
One amp is approximately 6 million trillion electrons in a second.
This flow of electrons is what causes tissue or nervous system damage.
Each one of those electrons going through a body either heat and burn
tissues or obstruct fundamental electrical signals, for example, those
that cause a heart to beat.
The latter phenomenon is the reason an electric shock over a specific amperage will make your muscles tighten and make letting go of the
current source unfeasible. Being unable to let go of the current
source due to a live wire is known as a tetanic contraction.
More relevant information:
While any amount of current over 10 milliamps (0.01 amp) is capable of producing painful to severe shock, currents between 100 and 200 mA
(0.1 to 0.2 amp) are lethal. Currents above 200 milliamps (0.2 amp),
while producing severe burns and unconsciousness, do not usually cause
death if the victim is given immediate attention.
How much voltage is required?
Ohms Law
A rough value for the internal resistance of the human body is
300-1,000 Ohms. Naturally, the resistance also depends on the path
that electricity takes through the body - if the electricity goes in
the left hand and out the right foot, then the resistance will be much
higher than if it goes in and out of adjacent fingers.
Lots of information about electrical resistance of the body and what voltages can be lethat at https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/electriccircuits/chapter/chapter-1/
20 volts DC is generally accepted as being safe but under the right conditions it CAN kill you!!! I know I've gotten VERY PAINFULL shocks
from 24 volt electrical systems - and NOT involving any inductance or reactance. (sweaty hands and wet feet were involved working on a
bulldozer in a swamp!!!!
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:05:19 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 10/28/2021 9:16 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:20:05 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is
not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I
know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the
chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I
could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful
investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do >>>> those things.
If you do not know how to safely handle a gun you have absolutely NO
BUSINESS touching it.
Thoughts and ideas like you mentioned is what gives fire arms a bed
reputation.
You might as well have an actor, playing a role as the one pressing a
real nuke button, and using a real nuke. Lives are at stake.
The finger that pulls the trigger is the guilty finger.
If it happened to you or I, do you think "I didn't know it was loaded"
would be a plausible defense?
If there's an armorer on set one can ask the armorer questions like
"How do I clear this firearm" and "how do I distinguish a blank from a
live round".
I would not trust the armorer either. Obviously the armorer was clueless. >>
Go to fire arm training before going to the set if you are not familiar
with fire arms.
Baldwin is a big anti-gunner. Do you think he wants to know the first
thing about what he hates? ...but when there's money to be made, it's
all good.
And there _should_ be a general rule "Before I point this firearm at
this other actor and pull the trigger, I am going to point it at _you_
(the armorer) and pull the trigger."
Well I understate your sentiment, but that action would be just just as
stupid. The object is to not harm any one.
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there >>>> was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
Yes and mostly at fault because he pointed the gun a person AND when he
did not insure that the gun was safe. YOU DO NOT leave this
responsibility to anyone but yourself.
In a more sinister scenario the one pulling the trigger could easily
load the gun with a live round after being handed the gun and blame the
armorer.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage?
Simple, the armorer did not remove all live rounds before reloading
with blanks.
What I meant is that live rounds shouldn't allowed be within blocks of
the set. It can't hurt anyone if it's not there. Plinking out back
during a break is another failure in the chain. The producer is on the
hook for that on. I can see a lot of lawyers getting rich on this
one.
<...>
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross<gwross@comwest.net> wrote in
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8nZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago,
so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can >> be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
Bingo... My neighbors house burned a few weeks ago... the whole attic is gutted, and the house is a loss... I came home from work to see smoke
coming out of the windows of the attic. Another neighbor and I broke
into the house to get their dog out (no one home).
He was renting... his "slum lord" had an "electrician" come in and wire several GFI's into the attic... he told me that sometimes after that,
when the oven came on, lights would go out, etc. Open neutral? Very sad... and fortunate that their children weren't home.
The house is solid on the first and second floors, aside from water
damage, and could be gutted and easily saved with a new roof, but it's
not worth the trouble to the landlord. I don't have the time/money to
save it. I told him to leave the detached 2 car garage, level the
house, and I'll buy the lot/garage.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:From the free dictionary
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by electrical
On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to tell the >>> >> story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>> >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>> >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he >>> >>>> was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class >>> >>>> that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for >>> >>>> safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings >>> >>>> off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. >>> >>>> ; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week >>> >>> of ET school.
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's nothing to be
impressed about.
shock."
Already did. Many times.
Oxford, Merriam-Webster, freedictionary.com, Wikipedia and others
include the word "injury" when defining electrocution.
To be more precise...
from: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/electrocution
**** Begin Included Text ****
Baha Al-Shaikh FCARCSI, FRCA, Simon Stacey FRCA, in Essentials of >>Anaesthetic Equipment (Fourth Edition), 2013
The effects of electrocution
As a general guide to the effects of electrocution, the following might occur:
1. 1 mA: tingling pain.
2. 5 mA: pain.
3. 15 mA: tonic muscle contraction and pain.
4. 50 mA: tonic contraction of respiratory muscles and respiratory arrest. >>5. 75100 mA: ventricular fibrillation.
6. 1000 mA: extensive burns and charring.
**** End Included Text ****
I experienced tonic muscle contraction and pain with some tissue burning and >>perhaps some ventricular fibrillation. The infirmary kept me overnight based on
heart rate abnormalities recorded soon after the incident. The medical report and
after-incident report both included the word "electrocution".
electrocute (i-lek'tr?-kyo?ot')
tr.v. electrocuted, electrocuting, electrocutes
1. To kill with electricity: a worker who was electrocuted by a
high-tension wire.
2. To execute (a person sentenced to death) by means of electricity.
From Merriam Webster:
Definition of electrocute
transitive verb
1: to kill or severely injure by electric shock
From the Cambridge Dictionary:
electrocute
verb [ T often passive ]
UK /i'lek.tr?.kju?t/ US /i'lek.tr?.kju?t/
to kill someone by causing electricity to flow through their body:
He was electrocuted when he touched the bare wires.
from https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/electrocuted
electrocute (redirected from electrocuted)
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus.
Related to electrocuted: electric shock
electrocute (e-lek'tro-kyut),
To cause death by the passage of an electric current through the body. >[electro- + execute]
From Wikidiff
As verbs the difference between electrocute and shock. is that
electrocute is to cause death from immediate complications resulting
from electric shock while shock is to cause to be emotionally shocked
also:
https://www.patrickkphillips.com/grammar/electrocution-means-death... >2015-12-15 Electrocution, in its traditional meaning, requires
death. Electrocution was always a fatal event. Otherwise, it was
merely a bad shock. The word electrocute was coined in 1889, according
to Etymonline.com, and meant to execute by electricity..
and:
Lester AH Critchley, in Oh's Intensive Care Manual (Seventh Edition),
2014
Epidemiology
Most cases of electrocution occur either in the workplace (about 60%)
or at home (about 30%).6 Most data on the incidence of electrocution
come from North America, though significant regional differences exist >worldwide. Children under 6 years are most at risk from domestic >electrocution, but with greater electrical safety awareness and the
use of ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs), the oral burns once
seen from chewing power cords are much less common.7 Young adult
Caucasian men are the most likely victims of electrocution in the
workplace. Power-lines and electrified railway tracks are the most
common causes of high-voltage injuries.
Al;so
One amp is approximately 6 million trillion electrons in a second.
This flow of electrons is what causes tissue or nervous system damage.
Each one of those electrons going through a body either heat and burn
tissues or obstruct fundamental electrical signals, for example, those
that cause a heart to beat.
The latter phenomenon is the reason an electric shock over a specific >amperage will make your muscles tighten and make letting go of the
current source unfeasible. Being unable to let go of the current
source due to a live wire is known as a tetanic contraction.
More relevant information:
While any amount of current over 10 milliamps (0.01 amp) is capable of >producing painful to severe shock, currents between 100 and 200 mA
(0.1 to 0.2 amp) are lethal. Currents above 200 milliamps (0.2 amp),
while producing severe burns and unconsciousness, do not usually cause
death if the victim is given immediate attention.
How much voltage is required?
Ohms Law
A rough value for the internal resistance of the human body is
300-1,000 Ohms. Naturally, the resistance also depends on the path
that electricity takes through the body - if the electricity goes in
the left hand and out the right foot, then the resistance will be much
higher than if it goes in and out of adjacent fingers.
Lots of information about electrical resistance of the body and what
voltages can be lethat at >https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/electriccircuits/chapter/chapter-1/
20 volts DC is generally accepted as being safe but under the right >conditions it CAN kill you!!! I know I've gotten VERY PAINFULL shocks
from 24 volt electrical systems - and NOT involving any inductance or >reactance. (sweaty hands and wet feet were involved working on a
bulldozer in a swamp!!!!
On 10/29/2021 2:17 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched
anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
My dad, once an electrician for Western Electric, welded his screwdriver
on to an oven switch like that. That was some 60+ years ago. I
remember seeing sparks flying from behind the oven/range
On 10/30/21 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:24 PM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 7:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:05:42 -0700, Beeper <beeper@acme.com> wrote:
On 10/29/21 10:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough >>>>>>>>>>> to tell
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want toI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>> (at a
be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had >>>>>>>>>>>>> been
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>>>>>>> that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in >>>>>>>>>>>>> shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just >>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or >>>>>>>>>>>>> even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the >>>>>>>>>>>>> colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it >>>>>>>>>>>>> would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in >>>>>>>>>>>>> terms of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my >>>>>>>>>>>> USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my >>>>>>>>>>>> first
week
of ET school.
the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's >>>>>>>>>> nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by >>>>>>>>> electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not
"necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response, >>>>>>>>
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to >>>>>>>> tell the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of >>>>>>>> electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing: >>>>>>>
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the >>>>>>> humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about
being anal.
Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your
implication that I
was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an
implication
that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent
animation.
Someone needs a nap.
AND GET OFF MY LAWN!
More like "GET OUT OF MY SANDBOX!" I will state that Leon seems to
have a reasonable and pragmatic sense of humor.
Your should stick around! You should fit right in. ;~)
I often sound like I am jumping some one but if you see LOL or smiley
faces, with my comments, it is usually me being all ironical.
Thanks, Leon. No worries, *my* sarcasm is not broken. ;-)
On 10/29/2021 10:24 PM, Beeper wrote:
On 10/29/21 7:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:05:42 -0700, Beeper <beeper@acme.com> wrote:
On 10/29/21 10:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 12:41:25 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote:Someone needs a nap.
On 10/29/21 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 10:15 AM, Beeper wrote:"Electrocuted" is simply past tense for "electrocute."
On 10/29/21 6:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-4, Beeper wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 10:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:21:25 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough >>>>>>>>>> to tell
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want toI was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a >>>>>>>>>>>> wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had >>>>>>>>>>>> been
be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him >>>>>>>>>>>> that he
was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in >>>>>>>>>>>> shop class
that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just >>>>>>>>>>>> rolled his
eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that >>>>>>>>>>>> respect for
safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation >>>>>>>>>>>> of the
craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or >>>>>>>>>>>> even
drywall! : )
I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the >>>>>>>>>>>> exception of
folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the >>>>>>>>>>>> colored rings
off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it >>>>>>>>>>>> would not
be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms >>>>>>>>>>>> of ohms.
; )
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my >>>>>>>>>>> USCG days
when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my >>>>>>>>>>> first
week
of ET school.
the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
Look up the *dictionary* definition of "electrocution". There's >>>>>>>>> nothing to be
impressed about.
Look it up yourself. Electrocution is defined as "_death_ by
electrical shock."
To drag out being anal a further step.
Anal ON.
Electrocution is a method of killing.
Electrocuted, the original word used by DerbyDad, does not
"necessarily"
mean death.
Electrocuted is the word that he used that prompted your response, >>>>>>>
Wow! You were electrocuted and you are still animated enough to
tell the
story! I'm impressed. [very big ;-)]
I know many people, including myself, and probably thousands of
electricians that have been electrocuted.
Anal mode off.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/electrocuted ... redirects to
"electrocute."
Perhaps this string of characters in my original reply is confusing: >>>>>>
"[very big ;-)]"
I was simply poking fun, but now at least two readers don't find the >>>>>> humor. Perhaps I am not welcome in their sandbox. Talk about being >>>>>> anal.
Your string of characters was not confusing. It was your
implication that I
was not electrocuted that I was responding to. Trust me, it's an
implication
that I heard many times over the years.
There is no reason for you to be impressed by my subsequent animation. >>>>
AND GET OFF MY LAWN!
More like "GET OUT OF MY SANDBOX!" I will state that Leon seems to
have a reasonable and pragmatic sense of humor.
Your should stick around! You should fit right in. ;~)
I often sound like I am jumping some one but if you see LOL or smiley
faces, with my comments, it is usually me being all ironical.
On 10/29/2021 2:16 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/28/2021 4:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
G Ross<gwross@comwest.net> wrote in
news:ZKidnagb8770ier8nZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com:
If I remember from shop in high school, the code stated "the neutral
shall not be broken by a switch or fuse". That was over 60 years ago, >>>> so maybe I am wrong, or that the code was broken at will by some
builders.
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it
can
be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
Bingo... My neighbors house burned a few weeks ago... the whole attic
is gutted, and the house is a loss... I came home from work to see
smoke coming out of the windows of the attic. Another neighbor and I
broke into the house to get their dog out (no one home).
He was renting... his "slum lord" had an "electrician" come in and
wire several GFI's into the attic... he told me that sometimes after
that, when the oven came on, lights would go out, etc. Open neutral?
Very sad... and fortunate that their children weren't home.
The house is solid on the first and second floors, aside from water
damage, and could be gutted and easily saved with a new roof, but it's
not worth the trouble to the landlord. I don't have the time/money to
save it. I told him to leave the detached 2 car garage, level the
house, and I'll buy the lot/garage.
I wonder if he wired your home too? ;~0 You just got a steal in the neighborhood didn't you? ;~)
Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> writes:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Do not do that.
Use a voltmeter to test the leads.
On 10/29/2021 2:17 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched
anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
My dad, once an electrician for Western Electric, welded his screwdriver
on to an oven switch like that. That was some 60+ years ago. I remember seeing sparks flying from behind the oven/range
On 10/29/2021 4:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> writes:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Do not do that.
Use a voltmeter to test the leads.
Heh, I suppose I've worked with too many electricians.
On 10/30/2021 2:11 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 2:17 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. SheYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an
had started
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched >>>>> anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can
turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning
the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking
your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the
breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
My dad, once an electrician for Western Electric, welded his screwdriver
on to an oven switch like that. That was some 60+ years ago. I remember
seeing sparks flying from behind the oven/range
It's not a method I would advise, aside from jest, but I have done it in
a pinch. It's a lot better than frying yourself.
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was
pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting
a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it
was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
Voltmeters often give a false positive (at least it's a positive). Use
a circuit test light instead. Use the right tool for the job.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:woGdnSwy3ZcQf-f8nZ2dnUU7-cfNnZ2d@giganews.com:
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was
pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting
a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it
was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
I've gotten in the habit of turning the saw off, putting my hands
somewhere safe (I find it helps prevent the temptation to move) and
waiting for the saw to spin down before moving.
full minute to spin down?
Hours, how long to live with it? A lifetime.
Let me burn the minute.
Puckdropper
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:1bapnghloj2dpmqcdq2u05aclcs5jtasji@4ax.com:
Voltmeters often give a false positive (at least it's a positive). Use
a circuit test light instead. Use the right tool for the job.
On household wiring? How so?
On 11/1/2021 2:37 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:woGdnSwy3ZcQf-f8nZ2dnUU7-cfNnZ2d@giganews.com:
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was
pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting
a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it
was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
I've gotten in the habit of turning the saw off, putting my hands
somewhere safe (I find it helps prevent the temptation to move) and
waiting for the saw to spin down before moving.
Yes! Me too. ;!) Watch every tool until it coasts to a stop.
So what if it takes a
full minute to spin down?
Not long at all. Maybe 5~6 seconds. But until you plan that far ahead,
it is like turning off a fan and waiting until it stops rotating to
leave the room.
How long would it take for an ER visit?
Hours, how long to live with it? A lifetime.
The ER visit was probably 2~3 hours. And I have learned to live with
it. The only real issue I have now is buttoning a long sleeve on the >opposite hand.
Let me burn the minute.
Absolutely! Because NO ONE is incapable of making a mistake.
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:1bapnghloj2dpmqcdq2u05aclcs5jtasji@4ax.com:
Voltmeters often give a false positive (at least it's a positive). Use
a circuit test light instead. Use the right tool for the job.
On household wiring? How so?
On Mon, 01 Nov 2021 08:01:22 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:1bapnghloj2dpmqcdq2u05aclcs5jtasji@4ax.com:
Voltmeters often give a false positive (at least it's a positive). Use
a circuit test light instead. Use the right tool for the job.
On household wiring? How so?
And how is a "false positive" a bad thing? Better to err on the side
of caution.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in >news:woGdnSwy3ZcQf-f8nZ2dnUU7-cfNnZ2d@giganews.com:
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was
pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting
a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it
was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
I've gotten in the habit of turning the saw off, putting my hands
somewhere safe (I find it helps prevent the temptation to move) and
waiting for the saw to spin down before moving. So what if it takes a
full minute to spin down? How long would it take for an ER visit?
Hours, how long to live with it? A lifetime.
Let me burn the minute.
krw@notreal.com wrote in news:1bapnghloj2dpmqcdq2u05aclcs5jtasji@4ax.com:If he's worried about "phantom" readings he needs to get an old
Voltmeters often give a false positive (at least it's a positive). Use
a circuit test light instead. Use the right tool for the job.
On household wiring? How so?
Puckdropper
On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 08:17:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
On 11/1/2021 2:37 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:woGdnSwy3ZcQf-f8...@giganews.com:
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was >>> pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting >>> a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it >>> was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
I've gotten in the habit of turning the saw off, putting my hands
somewhere safe (I find it helps prevent the temptation to move) and
waiting for the saw to spin down before moving.
Yes! Me too. ;!) Watch every tool until it coasts to a stop.
So what if it takes a
full minute to spin down?
Not long at all. Maybe 5~6 seconds. But until you plan that far ahead,It should be like a bandsaw and have a brake. An electronic brake
it is like turning off a fan and waiting until it stops rotating to
leave the room.
would be good. Sliders come to a halt pretty quickly.
How long would it take for an ER visit?
Hours, how long to live with it? A lifetime.
The ER visit was probably 2~3 hours. And I have learned to live withMy last ER visit was 5hrs before they even had me sign the paperwork
it. The only real issue I have now is buttoning a long sleeve on the >opposite hand.
to be seen, eight hours total. I'd just had a car accident and the paramedics had me on a stretcher. I had a broken arm, possible head
trauma (blood thinner) and pacemaker (lead) damage. Things that
should have been a priority. The Paramedics were required to say
until I was admitted to the ER.
Once I had to wait in the lobby with the druggies and flu patients
(hacking up their lungs) for a couple of hours. Syncope brought me
there and was admitted for known, and unknown, heart issues. I had a pacemaker a week later.
ERs aren't my favorite places. Seen too many of 'em.
On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 6:08:25 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 08:17:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
On 11/1/2021 2:37 AM, Puckdropper wrote:It should be like a bandsaw and have a brake. An electronic brake
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:woGdnSwy3ZcQf-f8...@giganews.com:
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at
possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was >> >>> pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting
a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I
sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there
would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1
year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my
thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it >> >>> was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the
fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado
sets take a while to stop spinning.
I've gotten in the habit of turning the saw off, putting my hands
somewhere safe (I find it helps prevent the temptation to move) and
waiting for the saw to spin down before moving.
Yes! Me too. ;!) Watch every tool until it coasts to a stop.
So what if it takes a
full minute to spin down?
Not long at all. Maybe 5~6 seconds. But until you plan that far ahead,
it is like turning off a fan and waiting until it stops rotating to
leave the room.
would be good. Sliders come to a halt pretty quickly.
How long would it take for an ER visit?My last ER visit was 5hrs before they even had me sign the paperwork
Hours, how long to live with it? A lifetime.
The ER visit was probably 2~3 hours. And I have learned to live with
it. The only real issue I have now is buttoning a long sleeve on the
opposite hand.
to be seen, eight hours total. I'd just had a car accident and the
paramedics had me on a stretcher. I had a broken arm, possible head
trauma (blood thinner) and pacemaker (lead) damage. Things that
should have been a priority. The Paramedics were required to say
until I was admitted to the ER.
Once I had to wait in the lobby with the druggies and flu patients
(hacking up their lungs) for a couple of hours. Syncope brought me
there and was admitted for known, and unknown, heart issues. I had a
pacemaker a week later.
ERs aren't my favorite places. Seen too many of 'em.
SWMBO dropped a pot of boiling water on her foot. A former
FD paramedic (neighbor) looked at the burn and said she should
go to the ER. SWMBO told me to call and see how busy they were.
The lady that answered gave me a time frame which was long but
not crazy long. I jokingly asked if anyone wanted some coffee or
anything and she jokingly said Some watermelon would be nice.
Well, it turns out that SWMBO had bought a watermelon the day
before, so I cut it up and brought it with us. When we checked in
I mentioned that the lady I had spoken with had asked for some
watermelon.
I dont think SWMBO was seen any quicker, but we didnt have to
wait in the waiting room with the riffraff. The lady at the desk
accepted our gift, grabbed a wheel chair, made a little fuss over
SWMBO's and took us back into an exam room. A nice, quiet,
private wait. Just before we left, an aide handed me my container,
all nice and clean. ;-)
On 10/31/2021 7:01 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/30/2021 2:11 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/29/2021 2:17 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2021 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She >>>>>> had startedYes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched >>>>>> anything
I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can >>>>>> turn the power
on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning >>>>>> the power off"
should always be done at the breaker.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the >>>> breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
My dad, once an electrician for Western Electric, welded his screwdriver >>> on to an oven switch like that. That was some 60+ years ago. I remember
seeing sparks flying from behind the oven/range
It's not a method I would advise, aside from jest, but I have done it
in a pinch. It's a lot better than frying yourself.
As the person who installed the lamp, after removing the wire connectors
I connected a screwdriver to the positive and neutral wires. It is
commonly done to the terminals when approaching an A/C motor capacitor,
and I did it for peace of mind before touching the ends of the wires,
even though I had to reason to think I had anything to worry about. If I really thought they might be live, I would have used a voltage detector. Fortunately, there were no sparks, and work proceeded as planned. The
lamp has two 100w bulbs on a dimmer, provides great light, and any lack
of symmetry gets less notable by the day! Nothing left to see on this
thread! : )
On Sun, 31 Oct 2021 18:59:27 -0400, Michael Trew
<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
On 10/29/2021 4:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> writes:
On 10/28/2021 10:09 AM, Leon wrote:
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an >>>>> Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking >>>>> your or some one else's life into account.
Someone did that to me once. Rather than risk your life, take an
insulated screw driver, and touch to both leads. A quick spark if the >>>> breaker is on, and you'll be sure it's now off -- no guessing.
Do not do that.
Use a voltmeter to test the leads.
Heh, I suppose I've worked with too many electricians.
The thing is, if you use a voltmeter then you have to go down to the
breaker panel, flip the breaker, and then go back to wherever you were working, likely finding that the most expensive tool in your toolkit
has walked off while you were away. But if you use the screwdriver,
the breaker's tripped and the circuit's dead and if you work real fast
you'll have the job done before some helpful soul turns it back on.
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