• #### Ping Leon: Kitchen Question

From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 28 11:31:47 2023

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range.
2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the
side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop
on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this
week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 1 12:45:12 2023
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range.
2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the
side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop
on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this
week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

1. Front of the Counter top to the front of the range control console,
2.25" To the front of the oven door handle approximately 2.75"

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53087293998/in/datetaken/

2. The back area of the range top is approximately 1/4" higher than the counter top. Closer to the front of the range the difference is closer
to 3/8" If we have a spill we want it to go towards the back of the
cook top.

FWIW I matched the height of the existing bottom cabinets, the 2 that we reused, for the new cabinets. The quartz is 3 cm thick.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Tue Aug 1 18:50:34 2023
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range. 2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the
side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

1. Front of the Counter top to the front of the range control console,
2.25" To the front of the oven door handle approximately 2.75"

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53087293998/in/datetaken/

2. The back area of the range top is approximately 1/4" higher than the counter top. Closer to the front of the range the difference is closer
to 3/8" If we have a spill we want it to go towards the back of the
cook top.

FWIW I matched the height of the existing bottom cabinets, the 2 that we reused, for the new cabinets. The quartz is 3 cm thick.

Thanks. I’ve looking at the installation instructions for a few ranges. They all
state the dimensions given assume a 25” deep counter. Is that what you have?

BTW…what a PITA to shop for appliances, especially ranges and fridges. If you
like the handles on Model A vs. Model B, then you better like top mounted knobs vs. front mounted knobs. And the matching fridge for that model range? Sorry, you have to settle for a full width tuck shelf, not the half width tuck shelf, or water
on the inside vs. the outside. It’s impossible to find a matching set that has all the
features you want on both units. Regardless of what you choose, you are going to
have to give something up and “settle” on some feature that you don’t like.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 3 08:58:52 2023
On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range. >>> 2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the
side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop >>> on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this >>> week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

1. Front of the Counter top to the front of the range control console,
2.25" To the front of the oven door handle approximately 2.75"

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53087293998/in/datetaken/

2. The back area of the range top is approximately 1/4" higher than the
counter top. Closer to the front of the range the difference is closer
to 3/8" If we have a spill we want it to go towards the back of the
cook top.

FWIW I matched the height of the existing bottom cabinets, the 2 that we
reused, for the new cabinets. The quartz is 3 cm thick.

Thanks. I’ve looking at the installation instructions for a few ranges. They all
state the dimensions given assume a 25” deep counter. Is that what you have?

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

BTW…what a PITA to shop for appliances, especially ranges and fridges. If you
like the handles on Model A vs. Model B, then you better like top mounted knobs
vs. front mounted knobs. And the matching fridge for that model range? Sorry, you have to settle for a full width tuck shelf, not the half width tuck shelf, or water
on the inside vs. the outside. It’s impossible to find a matching set that has all the
features you want on both units. Regardless of what you choose, you are going to
have to give something up and “settle” on some feature that you don’t like.

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.
ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They
had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the
the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch. And of course with SS
you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our
current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Something else we are considering is whether to get concealed or exposed handles. Concealed overall are shallower because the handles normally
protrude about 2.5" past the front of the unit. BUT they also act as
bumpers to protect against dings to the surface. In our case an eat in
kitchen chair could bang into the front of the fridge. Curved front or
flat front? Flat is more likely to catch a ding. Stainless steel or
painted? Many finger print free stainless steel models have a clear
plastic coating, same with the darker stainless steel models. Be
careful cleaning that surface as the film can be damaged and begin to
peal. So use the recommended cleaners and nothing abrasive or harsh.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Aug 3 12:10:26 2023
On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 08:58:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbell.net> wrote:

On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip]

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the >drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

That counter depth is pretty restrictive in a modern kitchen, and will
cause endless expense, the fridge being a very good example.

It may be cheaper to redo the cabinets and counters for a greater
depth, allowing standard appliances to fit without fuss.

The added depth is also useful for parking and using small appliances.

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth >models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our >current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Yes. At least 30", maybe 36". 26+12= 38"

In my kitchen, there are two facing walls with counters, cabinets, and
major appliances on both walls. There is enough space between facing
counters that I would have gone to at least 36". Maybe someday.

[rearrange and snip]

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.

Yes's. Too much plastic, too much electronics and pointless
complication. And when the electronics fails, it often makes the
fridge un-evaporable. Planned obsolescence.

ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They
had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the
the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch. And of course with SS
you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

I have a Bosch fridge with built-in ice maker. That ice maker never
worked correctly, and the ice bin would overfill and freeze into a
glacier. My solution was to disconnect the water from the fridge.

The ice bin, which took a lot of space, now holds cheese.

Joe Gwinn

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Aug 3 18:56:26 2023
On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 9:59:06 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range.
2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the >>> side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop
on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this >>> week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

1. Front of the Counter top to the front of the range control console,
2.25" To the front of the oven door handle approximately 2.75"

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53087293998/in/datetaken/

2. The back area of the range top is approximately 1/4" higher than the >> counter top. Closer to the front of the range the difference is closer
to 3/8" If we have a spill we want it to go towards the back of the
cook top.

FWIW I matched the height of the existing bottom cabinets, the 2 that we >> reused, for the new cabinets. The quartz is 3 cm thick.

Thanks. I’ve looking at the installation instructions for a few ranges. They all
state the dimensions given assume a 25” deep counter. Is that what you have?

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

I mocked up and mounted a drawer front similar to what I'm going to build
so that "laser guy" that templated my counter would know what it's going to look like. I believe he said 1.25" past the face frame which will be enough
to extend passt the 3/4" drawer front.

We're waiting for them to finish up the cut plan for us to approve.

BTW…what a PITA to shop for appliances, especially ranges and fridges. If you
like the handles on Model A vs. Model B, then you better like top mounted knobs
vs. front mounted knobs. And the matching fridge for that model range? Sorry,
you have to settle for a full width tuck shelf, not the half width tuck shelf, or water
on the inside vs. the outside. It’s impossible to find a matching set that has all the
features you want on both units. Regardless of what you choose, you are going to
have to give something up and “settle” on some feature that you don’t like.

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.
ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They
had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the
the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

Whether it's been at an Airbnb or at a friend's/relative's house, I don't think
I've ever used a fridge with in-the-door-ice that didn't consistently throw a cube or 2 on the floor. SWMBO and I kept that in mind when we went shopping.
We choose a unit with water in the door, ice maker in the freezer.

Interior water doesn't make sense to me. Not only does it take up space, but you have to open the fridge just to get a glass of water. Inefficient and a PITA.

One sales guy reminded us to consider "usable space" not just cubic footage.
20 cu ft isn't really 20 cu ft if there's a big control console at the front top and
a water filter compartment hanging on the left wall

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch.

We have a Bosch 800 dishwasher. It washes well but it's hard to load the bottom
rack efficiently. Even with all the folding tines and other adjustments, we can't get
as much in the Bosch as we could in the old Whirlpool that we had for 20+ years.
It's a heck of lot quieter though. It's so quiet that they include a red light that shines
on the floor right under the door so you know that it's running.

And of course with SS
you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

Yep...

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Due to space limitations, the widest fridge we can get is 30". Our current fridge
is 35.5" from the wall to the outside of the handles and that's as far as we want
to go. That limited our options too.

We ended up with a Maytag unit, freezer on the bottom, French door model. 20 cu ft.
We'll move the current 19.5 cu ft fridge to the basement and kick the 10 cu ft relic
to the curb.

We shopped at 4 or 5 different appliance stores and only one sales-guy offered us
"future pricing research". He has access to a system that tells hem when the model
you are interested in is going on sale. For example, we are in no hurry, so he looked
up our model numbers and told us that if we wait another month the range will be on
sale for \$150 off. The price on the fridge isn't changing any time soon, so we could
order that now or wait and order them both at the same time. We're waiting.

Something else we are considering is whether to get concealed or exposed handles. Concealed overall are shallower because the handles normally protrude about 2.5" past the front of the unit. BUT they also act as
bumpers to protect against dings to the surface. In our case an eat in kitchen chair could bang into the front of the fridge. Curved front or
flat front? Flat is more likely to catch a ding. Stainless steel or
painted? Many finger print free stainless steel models have a clear
plastic coating, same with the darker stainless steel models. Be
careful cleaning that surface as the film can be damaged and begin to
peal. So use the recommended cleaners and nothing abrasive or harsh.

I'll keep that in mind. We chose a FP-proof model. That was another
limiting factor when it came to matching the fridge to the range. You
can't choose FP-proof for the fridge and standard SS for the range, even
within the same brand, and expect the "color" to match.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From Leon@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Fri Aug 4 08:28:12 2023
On 8/3/2023 11:10 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 08:58:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbell.net> wrote:

On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip]

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the
drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

That counter depth is pretty restrictive in a modern kitchen, and will
cause endless expense, the fridge being a very good example.

Actually that depth is an industry standard and the common depth that
builders are using.

It may be cheaper to redo the cabinets and counters for a greater
depth, allowing standard appliances to fit without fuss.

Cheaper? I just redesigned and rebuild our kitchen with industry
standard measurements. Few appliances with the exception of dishwashers
fit evenly with counter tops. FWIW "Counter Depth" ranges and
refrigerators ALL have different depths differing as much as 3~7" past
the depth of the counter tops. With the exception of "built in"
refrigerators and or stand alone cook tops modern appliances extend past
the top of the counter tops. And unfortunately, for built in
refrigerators, the around \$10,000 price tag is not warranted.

The added depth is also useful for parking and using small appliances.

24" is not an issue. Our small appliances go in any of the 18 drawers
that I added to our kitchen. Out of sight.

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth
models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our
current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Yes. At least 30", maybe 36". 26+12= 38"

No.

In my kitchen, there are two facing walls with counters, cabinets, and
major appliances on both walls. There is enough space between facing counters that I would have gone to at least 36". Maybe someday.

You may want to consult an architect and or refer to standards that most
all mortgage companies require. If counter tops are not within certain standards they may not meet requirements for a future prospective buyer
to get a loan.

Having said that the distance between our cabinets and our island are
42" minimum. The dishwasher door can be open and it is easy to walk
between the open door and the island. That also goes for the open oven
door and the island.

The sink/oven/range/refrigerator reside an the "L" portion of the
kitchen with those counter tops being the standard 24"~26" depth.

We did add an 11' x 3' peninsula approximately 10' away from the island
and 16' away from the "L" section of the counter tops that also have the oven/range unit.

You should reconsider reaching to the back of a 36" counter top to wipe
down the back splash. That likely would require a step stool for most
women considering that the top of the standard back splash is 54" from
the floor.

[rearrange and snip]

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.

Yes's. Too much plastic, too much electronics and pointless
complication. And when the electronics fails, it often makes the
fridge un-evaporable. Planned obsolescence.

Mostly plastic has been the norm inside refrigerators side and back
panels and door shelving for decades. Plastic is not the issue.

Complication naturally increases the possibility of a failure. The
biggest issues with refrigerators with ice dispensers in the doors is
that the ice maker itself is normally in the higher temperature
refrigerated section. The temperatures near the ice maker are ever
changing as the ice maker goes into a defrost mode with every cycle of
ice. This makes temperatures inside the higher temp section of the refrigerator harder to regulate to a constant temperature at a minimum.

ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They
had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the
the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch. And of course with SS
you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

I have a Bosch fridge with built-in ice maker. That ice maker never
worked correctly, and the ice bin would overfill and freeze into a
glacier. My solution was to disconnect the water from the fridge.

The ice bin, which took a lot of space, now holds cheese.

Joe Gwinn

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
• From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 4 09:15:49 2023
On 8/3/2023 8:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 9:59:06 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range. >>>>> 2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the >>>>> side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop >>>>> on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this >>>>> week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

1. Front of the Counter top to the front of the range control console, >>>> 2.25" To the front of the oven door handle approximately 2.75"

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53087293998/in/datetaken/

2. The back area of the range top is approximately 1/4" higher than the >>>> counter top. Closer to the front of the range the difference is closer >>>> to 3/8" If we have a spill we want it to go towards the back of the
cook top.

FWIW I matched the height of the existing bottom cabinets, the 2 that we >>>> reused, for the new cabinets. The quartz is 3 cm thick.

Thanks. I’ve looking at the installation instructions for a few ranges. They all
state the dimensions given assume a 25” deep counter. Is that what you have?

Our range is 27" deep to the front of the pull handles. The front
mounted control console is back 1" from that. Ours is a GE Profile
"Induction" cook top and convection oven.
If you are still looking, we had an electric range for 30 years. When
we built the new house 12 years ago my wife wanted to go with gas, she
learned to cook on gas. So we went with the standard gas arrangement
local builder supplier to take our new unit "unused" that the builder
installed and replace with an upper end gas range.
3 years ago my wife was ready to get rid of gas, but did not want to go
back with standard electric. Hence the switch to induction for the cook
top.
Things we did not realize, well probably she realized this but it was
news to me.
An induction cook top heats pots and pans faster than gas. We saw a
demo of an induction vs. a gas cook top. Both had a tea pot filled with
tap water. The sales guy turned both units on at the same time and the induction handily beet the gas bringing the water to a boil. AND the
tea pot on the induction was siting on top of a paper napkin. The
napkin did not burn and when he lifted the tea pot and removed the
napkin he placed his hand on the burner. Try that with any other cook top.
So this is a neat feature but why?
On a standard gas or electric range if you get a boil over you get a
mess. Accidentally splash some sauce or gravy out of the pan on to the
cook top and you get a baked on mess. And with gas cook tops the mess
gets into nooks and crannys.
With induction the cook top is smooth, no cracks, and if you make a mess
while cooking you lift the pan and wipe up the mess with a kitchen rag.
The mess does not bake on and you can immediately wipe it up. Clean up
is something you can do immediately after removing the pot or pan. No
waiting for things to cool down. Now the top does get pretty warm but
not so much that would cause a burn. Also induction requires ferrous
metal pots and pans. We had plenty of those and we also took advantage
of a rebate that GE was offering that included a free set of pots and
pans. And those are decent quality.

We did have to have an electrician come in and install a 50 amp 240 volt
outlet for the range.

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the
drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

I mocked up and mounted a drawer front similar to what I'm going to build
so that "laser guy" that templated my counter would know what it's going to look like. I believe he said 1.25" past the face frame which will be enough to extend passt the 3/4" drawer front.

Yes. The standard drawer front often extends 7/8" past the FF. I have
always used Euro style hinges on cabinets with FF's These hinges bump
the cabinet doors out 1/8" from the FF so that there is clearance. I
put 1/8" bumpers on the back of the false drawer fronts so that they
match the depth of the door.

We're waiting for them to finish up the cut plan for us to approve.

BTW…what a PITA to shop for appliances, especially ranges and fridges. If you
like the handles on Model A vs. Model B, then you better like top mounted knobs
vs. front mounted knobs. And the matching fridge for that model range? Sorry,
you have to settle for a full width tuck shelf, not the half width tuck shelf, or water
on the inside vs. the outside. It’s impossible to find a matching set that has all the
features you want on both units. Regardless of what you choose, you are going to
have to give something up and “settle” on some feature that you don’t like.

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.
ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They
had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the
the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

Whether it's been at an Airbnb or at a friend's/relative's house, I don't think
I've ever used a fridge with in-the-door-ice that didn't consistently throw a cube or 2 on the floor. SWMBO and I kept that in mind when we went shopping. We choose a unit with water in the door, ice maker in the freezer.

Try this to keep the ice in the glass. Open the opposite refrigerator
door before you move/remove the glass. That stops the dispenser while
the glass is still in place. ;~) Normally pulling the glass out
changes the position of the glass before it is no longer in contact with
the switch. OR you can also press the water despenser and that will
stop the ice also, however you have the same problem with the water
spilling as you remove the glass. Just open the opposite door to turn
off the dispenser before you move the glass. It is now a muscle memory
habit for me to to this.

Interior water doesn't make sense to me. Not only does it take up space, but you have to open the fridge just to get a glass of water. Inefficient and a PITA.

All of the interior water dispensers I have seen are typical on the left
side of the interior near the front. They maybe stick out as much as an
inch. And they are located where they do not interfere with any storage.

One sales guy reminded us to consider "usable space" not just cubic footage. 20 cu ft isn't really 20 cu ft if there's a big control console at the front top and
a water filter compartment hanging on the left wall

Yes but I units that do not dispense ice out of the door don't have this.

Do you see the water dispenser on this unit, very top picture.

https://www.bosch-home.com/us/products/refrigerators/french-door-refrigerators

It is on the left side interior side panel in front of those tiny red
bottles. And the filter is in the upper tight corner. And of course
the ice maker is IN the lower freezer, you scoop your own ice. Because
of all of the door dispenser issues manufacturers are offering this alternative.

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch.

We have a Bosch 800 dishwasher. It washes well but it's hard to load the bottom
rack efficiently. Even with all the folding tines and other adjustments, we can't get
as much in the Bosch as we could in the old Whirlpool that we had for 20+ years.
It's a heck of lot quieter though. It's so quiet that they include a red light that shines
on the floor right under the door so you know that it's running.

We have had Whirlpool dishwashers for the past 33 years. Yeah we had
the builder supplier swap the new unused GE dishwasher out for a upper
end Whirlpool too. ;~)

And of course with SS
you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

Yep...

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth
models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our
current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Due to space limitations, the widest fridge we can get is 30". Our current fridge
is 35.5" from the wall to the outside of the handles and that's as far as we want
to go. That limited our options too.

We ended up with a Maytag unit, freezer on the bottom, French door model. 20 cu ft.
We'll move the current 19.5 cu ft fridge to the basement and kick the 10 cu ft relic
to the curb.

We shopped at 4 or 5 different appliance stores and only one sales-guy offered us
"future pricing research". He has access to a system that tells hem when the model
you are interested in is going on sale. For example, we are in no hurry, so he looked
up our model numbers and told us that if we wait another month the range will be on
sale for \$150 off. The price on the fridge isn't changing any time soon, so we could
order that now or wait and order them both at the same time. We're waiting.

That's cool.

Something else we are considering is whether to get concealed or exposed
handles. Concealed overall are shallower because the handles normally
protrude about 2.5" past the front of the unit. BUT they also act as
bumpers to protect against dings to the surface. In our case an eat in
kitchen chair could bang into the front of the fridge. Curved front or
flat front? Flat is more likely to catch a ding. Stainless steel or
painted? Many finger print free stainless steel models have a clear
plastic coating, same with the darker stainless steel models. Be
careful cleaning that surface as the film can be damaged and begin to
peal. So use the recommended cleaners and nothing abrasive or harsh.

I'll keep that in mind. We chose a FP-proof model. That was another
limiting factor when it came to matching the fridge to the range. You
can't choose FP-proof for the fridge and standard SS for the range, even within the same brand, and expect the "color" to match.

Fun and games.

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• From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Aug 4 13:12:53 2023
On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:28:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbell.net> wrote:

On 8/3/2023 11:10 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 08:58:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbell.net> wrote:

On 8/1/2023 8:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
[snip]

My Counter top is 25 5/8" deep to the sheet rock. 25 1/8" deep to the
back splash. You want to plan for the counter top to extend past the
front of the cabinet face frame enough to allow for extending past the
drawer/door front and a bit more than that. Ours is between 1.25"~1.5"
past the face frame.

That counter depth is pretty restrictive in a modern kitchen, and will
cause endless expense, the fridge being a very good example.

Actually that depth is an industry standard and the common depth that >builders are using.

It may be cheaper to redo the cabinets and counters for a greater
depth, allowing standard appliances to fit without fuss.

Cheaper? I just redesigned and rebuild our kitchen with industry
standard measurements. Few appliances with the exception of dishwashers
fit evenly with counter tops. FWIW "Counter Depth" ranges and
refrigerators ALL have different depths differing as much as 3~7" past
the depth of the counter tops. With the exception of "built in" >refrigerators and or stand alone cook tops modern appliances extend past
the top of the counter tops. And unfortunately, for built in
refrigerators, the around \$10,000 price tag is not warranted.

24" depth fridges are quite expensive if they have enough capacity,
and must be built in to prevent tip over problems.

The added depth is also useful for parking and using small appliances.

In my kitchen, it would be a great help.

24" is not an issue. Our small appliances go in any of the 18 drawers
that I added to our kitchen. Out of sight.

We want to go counter depth, what ever that means. 95% of counter depth >>> models, that are affordable, extend past the counter at least 5". Our
current 28 cubic foot Samsung extends about 12" past the counter top.

Yes. At least 30", maybe 36". 26+12= 38"

No.

In my kitchen, there are two facing walls with counters, cabinets, and
major appliances on both walls. There is enough space between facing
counters that I would have gone to at least 36". Maybe someday.

You may want to consult an architect and or refer to standards that most
all mortgage companies require. If counter tops are not within certain >standards they may not meet requirements for a future prospective buyer
to get a loan.

It follows the local building code. Their big issue is with the
stove, to ensure enough separation between flame and wooden cabinets
and the like.

Having said that the distance between our cabinets and our island are
42" minimum. The dishwasher door can be open and it is easy to walk
between the open door and the island. That also goes for the open oven
door and the island.

The sink/oven/range/refrigerator reside an the "L" portion of the
kitchen with those counter tops being the standard 24"~26" depth.

We did add an 11' x 3' peninsula approximately 10' away from the island
and 16' away from the "L" section of the counter tops that also have the >oven/range unit.

You should reconsider reaching to the back of a 36" counter top to wipe
down the back splash. That likely would require a step stool for most
women considering that the top of the standard back splash is 54" from
the floor.

My 5'4" wife's solution is very simple - that's my job.

[rearrange and snip]

We have been doing some research on refrigerators. It seems that
YouTube has a bunch of repairman reviews of these appliances. Most say
that 95% built in the last 10 or so years are problematic.

Yes's. Too much plastic, too much electronics and pointless
complication. And when the electronics fails, it often makes the
fridge un-evaporable. Planned obsolescence.

Mostly plastic has been the norm inside refrigerators side and back
panels and door shelving for decades. Plastic is not the issue.

Sure it is. My prior fridge lasted from 1982 to 2020 or so, 35 years.
Try that with a modern fridge, where 5 years is doing very well.

Complication naturally increases the possibility of a failure. The
biggest issues with refrigerators with ice dispensers in the doors is
that the ice maker itself is normally in the higher temperature
refrigerated section. The temperatures near the ice maker are ever
changing as the ice maker goes into a defrost mode with every cycle of
ice. This makes temperatures inside the higher temp section of the >refrigerator harder to regulate to a constant temperature at a minimum.

That does sound plausible.

Joe Gwinn

ESPECIALLY Samsung and LG. Apparently LG has compressor problems with
their unique compressor design. Samsung has multiple problems, my BIL
and SIL have a Samsung "Bespoke" that has had compressor problems. They >>> had to get Samsung to buy back their model that was under 1 year old
because they could not get parts, including the compressor. And they
had to purchase another Samsung for that to happen. No refund. Buy
back because the model they bought was discontinued.\
Consumer reports is not fond of wither Samsung or LG. At the moment the >>> the better upper end models are Bosch and GE. And the simpler the unit
the better. No exterior water or ice is recommended. The repair guys
say get the units with the ice maker in the freezer and scoop your own
ice. And water from inside the unit. Apparently most ice maker
problems stem from an ice maker inside the refrigerator portion vs.
inside the actual freezer itself.

We are currently looking at the 800 series Bosch. And of course with SS >>> you can get this with handles or no handles. Want dark/black SS?
Handles only.

I have a Bosch fridge with built-in ice maker. That ice maker never
worked correctly, and the ice bin would overfill and freeze into a
glacier. My solution was to disconnect the water from the fridge.

The ice bin, which took a lot of space, now holds cheese.

Joe Gwinn

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• From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 8 08:54:24 2023
On 7/28/2023 1:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531079/in/datetaken/

I'd like to know these 2 measurements:

1 -The distance from the front the counter top to the front of the range.
2 - The difference in the height of the counter vs. the height of the
side of the range, specifically the section near the red pot cover.

We're going to be doing something similar (slide-in range with countertop
on both sides) and I will be building two base cabinets. I'm assuming that your installation is "standard" so knowing the difference in depths will
will help me determine the depth of my countertop and therefore the
depth on the base cabinet. We're going to the countertop fabricator this
week and I need to account for those two pieces in the layout.

Obviously, I don't need the height for the fabricator, but am I curious as to what was used in your kitchen.

Thanks!

And with all the pics I have posted. If you want to see what the range
looks like, protruding out from the counter tops, here is a straight on
shot.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/53102619283/in/datetaken/

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