• Kitchen Re-do

    From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 6 11:46:35 2023
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    Tile guys are here and the tile has been removed from the kitchen, mid
    point of the house.

    We masked but that has not been great but towels at the bottom of closed
    doors has worked well. Roomba will be busy!

    We are going with a very close match tile but with a wood plank
    appearance. We did not want to see a stark color change in our flooring
    from out entry way through the kitchen to the living room.


    You can see the old tile color and the new tile color in the following pictures.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673236899/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to Leon on Mon Feb 6 15:04:37 2023
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Tue Feb 7 09:59:27 2023
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed??  They already look brand new!



    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing
    everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a
    different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674839106/in/datetaken/

    This is the new floor.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674328507/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674833676/in/datetaken/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to Leon on Tue Feb 7 16:04:31 2023
    On 2/7/2023 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

    This is the new floor.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674328507/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674833676/in/datetaken/


    People make jokes about stepping on Lego blocks. Takes a real pro to
    navigate your floor.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Tue Feb 7 13:23:58 2023
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

    This is the new floor.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674328507/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674833676/in/datetaken/


    People make jokes about stepping on Lego blocks. Takes a real pro to
    navigate your floor.

    For some reason that photo reminds me of a movie scene where a floor was covered with mouse traps. ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Tue Feb 7 16:49:26 2023
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter >> tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy
    some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my kitchen
    is too small.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Wed Feb 8 19:17:04 2023
    On 2/7/2023 3:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

    This is the new floor.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674328507/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674833676/in/datetaken/


    People make jokes about stepping on Lego blocks.  Takes a real pro to navigate your floor.


    Yes! Those were gone yesterday. The crew did a great job. Down
    here the builders lay the tile up to the preinstalled baseboards. The baseboards are about 3/8" up from the foundation. Then they grout the
    gap at the baseboard, caulk over the grout at the baseboard, and paint.
    The crew yesterday left me little to do. It already looks finished.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to John Grossbohlin on Wed Feb 8 19:18:20 2023
    On 2/7/2023 3:23 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

    This is the new floor.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674328507/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52674833676/in/datetaken/


    People make jokes about stepping on Lego blocks. Takes a real pro to
    navigate your floor.

    For some reason that photo reminds me of a movie scene where a floor was covered with mouse traps. ;~)

    Yes it was like mouse traps. We decided to escape via another route
    should we have needed to get out of the house quick.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 8 19:55:24 2023
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the
    counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually
    keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range
    including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing
    everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our
    neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a
    different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the
    refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the
    dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how
    all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range
    and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space
    to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter
    top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30"
    and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl
    with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Feb 10 11:16:50 2023
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new! >> No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually
    keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range
    including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing
    everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our
    neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a
    different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and >> to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the
    refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the
    dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how
    all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range
    and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space
    to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter
    top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30"
    and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl
    with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm

    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years, with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece.
    I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 10 16:34:16 2023
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the
    counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new! >>>> No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually >>>> keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range >>>> including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12 >>>> years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing
    everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our >>>> neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a
    different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and >>>> to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the >>>> refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the
    dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2, >>>> 13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed >>>> trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration. >>>
    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy >>> some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how
    all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and
    chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range
    and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space
    to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter
    top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30"
    and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl
    with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm

    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years, with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece.
    I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg


    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top
    centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to
    be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of
    the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out
    trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both
    leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the
    floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was
    too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer, electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water
    and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 11 00:15:41 2023
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the
    counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new! >>>> No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually >>>> keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range >>>> including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12 >>>> years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was >>>> funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden >>>> oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our >>>> neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures >>>> of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and >>>> to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the >>>> refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2, >>>> 13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed >>>> trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration. >>>
    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy >>> some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations >> of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how
    all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island >> vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and >> chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range
    and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space
    to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter
    top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be >> used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30"
    and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl
    with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm

    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece. I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to
    be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of
    the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was
    too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer, electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water
    and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 11 09:04:37 2023
    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the
    counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new! >>>>>> No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually >>>>>> keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range >>>>>> including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12 >>>>>> years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was >>>>>> funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden >>>>>> oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and
    designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our >>>>>> neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures >>>>>> of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and >>>>>> to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the >>>>>> refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18"
    long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2, >>>>>> 13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed >>>>>> trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration. >>>>>
    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy >>>>> some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so
    guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations >>>> of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island >>>> vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and >>>> chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter
    top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be >>>> used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30"
    and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl
    with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm

    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years, >>> with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats >>> from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece. >>> I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top
    centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to
    be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of
    the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out
    trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both
    leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the
    floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was
    too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer,
    electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water
    and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up. Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the dishwasher. I did not care, you never see it. And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side. And
    there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW. They
    felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And
    down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English. I was assured that I could remove the DW if
    they left the tile out. I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW. It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to. Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation
    wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line.
    I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working,
    until I found that the water had been turned off. So I ran the DW where
    it sat, outside the hole it fit into. Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast. After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak. Of course! It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW. That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end. There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw
    fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line. I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning. And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when
    Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non
    water related work and repurposing cabinets. New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 11 12:02:02 2023
    On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 09:04:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the >>>>> counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new! >>>>>>> No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually >>>>>>> keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range >>>>>>> including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12 >>>>>>> years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was >>>>>>> funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden >>>>>>> oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and >>>>>>> designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our >>>>>>> neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures >>>>>>> of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and >>>>>>> to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the >>>>>>> refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18" >>>>>>> long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2, >>>>>>> 13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed >>>>>>> trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration. >>>>>>
    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy >>>>>> some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so >>>>>> guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations >>>>> of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island >>>>> vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and >>>>> chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter >>>>> top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be >>>>> used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30" >>>>> and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl >>>>> with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm >>>>
    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats >>>> from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece. >>>> I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top
    centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to
    be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of
    the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out >>> trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both
    leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the
    floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was
    too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer,
    electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water
    and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didnt consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasnt happy when he realized he couldnt
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldnt the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up. Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the >dishwasher. I did not care, you never see it. And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side. And
    there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW. They
    felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And
    down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English. I was assured that I could remove the DW if
    they left the tile out. I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW. It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to. Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation
    wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line.
    I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working,
    until I found that the water had been turned off. So I ran the DW where
    it sat, outside the hole it fit into. Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast. After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak. Of course! It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW. That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end. There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw >fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line. I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning. And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when
    Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non
    water related work and repurposing cabinets. New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.
    Always seem to come in threew ---------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Clare Snyder on Sat Feb 11 12:51:50 2023
    On 2/11/2023 11:02 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 09:04:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the >>>>>> counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are actually >>>>>>>> keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the range >>>>>>>> including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the rage 12 >>>>>>>> years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It was >>>>>>>> funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal golden >>>>>>>> oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and >>>>>>>> designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home in our >>>>>>>> neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take pictures >>>>>>>> of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top between the >>>>>>>> refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18" >>>>>>>> long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle holding 2, >>>>>>>> 13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the repurposed >>>>>>>> trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and build/buy
    some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so >>>>>>> guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my >>>>>> kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many iterations >>>>>> of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the island >>>>>> vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table and >>>>>> chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter >>>>>> top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will only be >>>>>> used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30" >>>>>> and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl >>>>>> with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc. >>>>>>
    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm >>>>>
    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years. >>>>>
    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board slats
    from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower piece. >>>>> I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top >>>> centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to >>>> be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of >>>> the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out >>>> trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both
    leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the >>>> floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was >>>> too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer, >>>> electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water >>>> and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up. Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the
    dishwasher. I did not care, you never see it. And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side. And
    there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW. They
    felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And
    down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English. I was assured that I could remove the DW if
    they left the tile out. I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW. It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to. Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation
    wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line.
    I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working,
    until I found that the water had been turned off. So I ran the DW where
    it sat, outside the hole it fit into. Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast. After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak. Of course! It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW. That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end. There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw
    fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line. I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning. And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when
    Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non
    water related work and repurposing cabinets. New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.
    Always seem to come in threew ---------


    You can say that again and again..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 11 12:54:29 2023
    On 2/11/2023 9:04 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the >>>>> counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look
    brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are
    actually
    keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the >>>>>>> range
    including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the
    rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It >>>>>>> was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal
    golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and >>>>>>> designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home
    in our
    neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take
    pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and
    lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top
    between the
    refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18" >>>>>>> long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle
    holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the
    repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for
    illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and
    build/buy
    some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so >>>>>> guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my
    kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many
    iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the
    island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table
    and
    chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter >>>>> top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will
    only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30" >>>>> and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl >>>>> with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc.

    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm >>>>
    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen
    and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to
    the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the
    interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the
    typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower
    cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years.

    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few
    years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted
    a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board
    slats
    from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower
    piece.
    I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with
    the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top
    centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to
    be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of
    the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out >>> trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom
    to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both
    leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the
    floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was
    too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer,
    electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water
    and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up.   Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the dishwasher.  I did not care, you never see it.  And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side.   And there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW.   They
    felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And
    down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English.   I was assured that I could remove the DW if they left the tile out.   I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW.  It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to.   Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation
    wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line.
     I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working,
    until I found that the water had been turned off.  So I ran the DW where
    it sat, outside the hole it fit into.  Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast.  After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak.  Of course!  It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW.  That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end.  There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line.  I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning.    And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when
    Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non
    water related work and repurposing cabinets.   New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.




    So Back from the hardware store with the new hose. The helpful hardware
    guy measured my hose as I stretched it out and he measured 47". I
    bought the 48" one. Got home and uncoiled the new hose and it was a
    foot too short. I measured 58" on my old one. I opted for the 72"
    the second time around.

    So far no leaks. Fingers crossed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 11 17:59:27 2023
    On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 12:54:37 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/11/2023 9:04 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the >>>>> counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look >>>>>>>> brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are >>>>>>> actually
    keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the >>>>>>> range
    including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the >>>>>>> rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It >>>>>>> was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal >>>>>>> golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and >>>>>>> designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home >>>>>>> in our
    neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take
    pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and >>>>>>> lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top
    between the
    refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18" >>>>>>> long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle
    holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the
    repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for
    illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and
    build/buy
    some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so >>>>>> guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my >>>>> kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many
    iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the >>>>> island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table >>>>> and
    chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter >>>>> top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will
    only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30" >>>>> and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl >>>>> with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc. >>>>>
    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm >>>>
    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen
    and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to
    the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the
    interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the
    typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower
    cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years. >>>>
    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few >>>> years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted >>>> a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board >>>> slats
    from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower
    piece.
    I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with
    the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top >>> centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to >>> be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of >>> the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out >>> trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that
    cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom >>> to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile
    under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course
    it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both >>> leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher
    and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash
    the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the >>> floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was >>> too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose
    and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer, >>> electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water >>> and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up. Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the dishwasher. I did not care, you never see it. And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side. And there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW. They felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English. I was assured that I could remove the DW if they left the tile out. I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW. It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to. Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line.
    I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working, until I found that the water had been turned off. So I ran the DW where it sat, outside the hole it fit into. Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast. After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak. Of course! It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW. That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end. There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line. I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning. And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non water related work and repurposing cabinets. New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.
    So Back from the hardware store with the new hose. The helpful hardware
    guy measured my hose as I stretched it out and he measured 47". I
    bought the 48" one. Got home and uncoiled the new hose and it was a
    foot too short. I measured 58" on my old one. I opted for the 72"
    the second time around.

    So far no leaks. Fingers crossed.
    What dishwasher did you get?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Bob Davis on Sun Feb 12 11:19:50 2023
    On 2/11/2023 7:59 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 12:54:37 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/11/2023 9:04 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/11/2023 2:15 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2023 1:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/7/2023 6:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2023 2:04 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 2/6/2023 12:46, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/ >>>>>>>>>>>
    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the >>>>>>> counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    Those aren't the new cabinets installed?? They already look >>>>>>>>>> brand new!
    No, those in the picture are the 12 year old cabinets. We are >>>>>>>>> actually
    keeping the cabinets under the sink all around the corner to the >>>>>>>>> range
    including the upper around to the range.

    And we are changing color. This dark brown/mocha color was the >>>>>>>>> rage 12
    years ago but there are disadvantages to this color and style. It >>>>>>>>> was
    funny, the builder was building the spec homes with the normal >>>>>>>>> golden
    oak or similar color cabinets. We built from the ground up choosing >>>>>>>>> everything and went with the dark cabinets. After the builder and >>>>>>>>> designers saw our kitchen they built every, remaining spec home >>>>>>>>> in our
    neighborhood, with the dark cabinets. And then asked to take >>>>>>>>> pictures
    of our entire house for the designers to copy for a model home in a >>>>>>>>> different new neighborhood.

    Ill be replacing cabinets to the left of the range, upper and >>>>>>>>> lower and
    to the right of the sink, upper and lower.

    The basic plan was to change the length of the counter top
    between the
    refrigerator and the range to 56". The current counter top is 18" >>>>>>>>> long. That 18" counter top cabinet will be moved to the right of the >>>>>>>>> dishwasher and repurposed to be a pull out trash receptacle
    holding 2,
    13 gallon containers.

    Then the refrigerator will be relocated to the right of the
    repurposed
    trash receptacle, on the sink side wall.

    And then the additional 11' of pony wall counter cabinets.

    This is where we are headed, the table and chairs are for
    illustration.

    Are you going to have a table and chairs there?

    Why not turn the island 90°, lengthen it, add an overhang and >>>>>>>> build/buy
    some nice stools (with backs)? Have them facing the window wall, so >>>>>>>> guests can talk to the cook.

    Maybe even a prep sink in the island. I'd love one of those but my >>>>>>> kitchen
    is too small.
    I began designing this about 2 years ago and there were many
    iterations
    of what to do with the island and table. I was not quite sure that how >>>>>>> all of this would fit together. The island old top is currently
    outside. 3cm granite 36" x 48".

    The island top is going to shrink to 24" x 48" and only cover the >>>>>>> island
    vs. over hanging 12". This gains us 12 inches of room for the table >>>>>>> and
    chairs. Additionally the island is moving about 8" closer to the range >>>>>>> and about 5" sway from the sink. We mostly used the extra island space >>>>>>> to serve food. With the pony wall cabinets and the 36" x 127" counter >>>>>>> top we will have a much larger serving area and the island will
    only be
    used for food prep. We will be adding a larger sink, 33" long vs 30" >>>>>>> and it is likely going to be a Rivati work station sink. Single bowl >>>>>>> with lips to slide cutting boards, colanders, draining racks, etc. >>>>>>>
    https://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8222-33-inch-workstation-two-tiered-ledge-kitchen-sink-undermount-16-gauge/

    And quartz counter tops,

    https://www.arizonatile.com/products/slab/della-terra-quartz/pro-storm >>>>>>
    I just finished putting wood-look vinyl plank down in the kitchen
    and we're getting
    quotes on counter tops. We have stick built cabinets, original to
    the 1956 house,
    and we're keeping those. It's a relatively small kitchen and the
    interior openness
    of "one-big-box" stick built cabinets would be lost if I built the >>>>>> typical individual
    box cabinets. I already built/installed drawers for the lower
    cabinets and plan to
    restart the shaker door project that's been stalled for a few years. >>>>>>
    Regarding islands, my daughter had an apartment in Vermont for a few >>>>>> years,
    with really big kitchen but literally no counter space. I converted >>>>>> a $100 thrift
    store hutch into island which made a huge difference. The bead-board >>>>>> slats
    from the upper portion were used to dress up the back of the lower >>>>>> piece.
    I'm pretty sure that I used your favorite levelers - the ones with >>>>>> the through-the-
    base Allen wrench adjustors.


    Befores:

    https://i.imgur.com/XOFNEPG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/IMX6o1a.jpg

    Afters:

    https://i.imgur.com/J44gEhl.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/eeIziHg.jpg
    The after looks Great!! Good Job!

    So about October of 2020 we were going to build a home with a cook top >>>>> centered on an 11' long counter. Opposite, an island that was going to >>>>> be 11' long. About 6' more actual counter space than we had in 3
    locations. Now we will have about 30'

    So I am repurposing an 18" counter cabinet that was on the left side of >>>>> the range and moving to the sink side wall and will make that a pull out >>>>> trash receptical. I have spent the better part of today fitting that >>>>> cabinet in under the current counter. I have had to modify the bottom >>>>> to be shorter to sit on top of the tile vs. on the slab where it
    originally was. And the floor guys said that they could not put tile >>>>> under the dishwasher. The pulled the old tile out. ;~( And of course >>>>> it was adjusted with the front feet that prevented removal. So down
    flat on the floor to reach under there and make quarter turns of both >>>>> leveling feet about 1/2". And I was able to get it out with out too
    much trouble after that. But then I decided to unload the dishwasher >>>>> and boy did it stink. The soap dispenser had opened but did not wash >>>>> the dishes. I turned it back on and heard no water running. I then
    thought 12 year old dishwasher coincidentally stopped working after the >>>>> floor guys replaced it. Hummm, how did they get it out as the hose was >>>>> too short. Soooooo i began digging under the sink to locate the hose >>>>> and after removing about 50 lbs of cleaning products, plant fertilizer, >>>>> electronic leak detector, and who know what else, Oh, furniture
    polish...... I saw the shut off valve. I grabbed it and turned it
    back on. Turned the dishwasher back on and away it went. Whew! I
    saw another $1K on top of everything else for s new DW. Those poor
    guys emptied the cabinet to turn the water off and disconnect the water >>>>> and the reverse steps.


    But seriously, your after pic of the cabinet looks great!

    Thanks. It got sold when they moved to Denver, taking only
    what they could fit in (and on) their cars. They loaded their
    Subaru to the max and I paid to have it shipped to Denver so
    that they could drive together. There was barely room for the
    trucker to get in and drive it onto his hauler. When they loaded
    the car they didn’t consider that the trucker might be a lot taller
    than either of them. He wasn’t happy when he realized he couldn’t
    move the seat back. :-)

    Why wouldn’t the installers put tile under the DW? Liability?
    I would have tried to get them to put a clause in the contract
    relieving them of any liability or maybe leave enough tile to
    have done it myself. What was the issue?



    It is one of those "got'cha" things that come up. Initially, before
    the job started, they said that they would not remove the tile under the >>> dishwasher. I did not care, you never see it. And then they did any
    way as access to the DW was open in front and on the right side. And
    there were half tiles, the old ones, that went 7" under the DW. They
    felt that the new tiles would be too tall for the DW to go back in. And
    down here most "skilled labor" and I use that term loosely, does not
    have a command of English. I was assured that I could remove the DW if >>> they left the tile out. I was not so sure of that statement and made
    it a point yesterday to remove the DW. It came out easily once I
    adjusted the adjustable leveling front feet to the mostly up position.
    And then I cut 3 of the left over tiles myself and simply set them in
    the spot that the DW fits in to. Fit was fine less the mastic that
    holds the tile.

    Ultimately it was probably a good idea to leave the permanently laid
    tile out, the extra 1/8"~ 1/4"clearance makes stuffing the insulation
    wrapped around the DW easier.

    AND THEN, I discovered that the DW water had been turned off after
    pulling it out and opening it up to dirty dishes, it is a separate line. >>> I was thinking what are the chances that the DW simply quit working,
    until I found that the water had been turned off. So I ran the DW where >>> it sat, outside the hole it fit into. Great! No new DW!

    Whew!

    But not so fast. After relocating the DW in its hole I discovered a
    water leak. Of course! It did not leak while out in the open, only
    after I stuffed it back in its hole.

    The leak, as best I can tell, is coming from the flexible water line
    that attaches to the DW. That line is similar to a garden hose fitting
    on the DW end. There was a drip forming every couple of seconds that
    did not seem to becoming from the upper part of the hose nor the screw
    fitting, just at the back end of the crimp/swivel fitting.

    So back out again with the DW, tipped on its side and I removed the
    supply line. I will be getting a new one to replace this 12 year old
    one this morning. And hopefully that will be that.


    I have done about 22 kitchens, many clean installs on new homes when
    Swingman and I used to work together on the homes he built.

    Hopefully I will fix the leak with a new hose and I can proceed to non
    water related work and repurposing cabinets. New construction from
    this point, I hope.

    It is always something.
    So Back from the hardware store with the new hose. The helpful hardware
    guy measured my hose as I stretched it out and he measured 47". I
    bought the 48" one. Got home and uncoiled the new hose and it was a
    foot too short. I measured 58" on my old one. I opted for the 72"
    the second time around.

    So far no leaks. Fingers crossed.
    What dishwasher did you get?


    Still the same Whirlpool 12 year old dishwasher that we exchanged
    immediately with a supplier before we moved in or used the builder grade dishwasher.

    We have had good luck with upper end Whirlpools. BUT this one, early
    on, had to have 2 water pumps replaced on 2 occasions. The first was
    covered under warranty, the second I did myself with an OEM brand.
    Whirlpool had a back log of water pumps and we were not going to wait 3
    weeks for the second pump.

    A side note, we bought the extended warranty through Whirlpool and
    because "I" replaced the pump the warranty company voided our warranty
    with no refund. And yet the warranty company instructed me how to get credited for the $36 pump.

    On a side note, I learned this many years ago. If you work on you own dishwasher remove the unit from it's hole and tip it on its side to gain
    very easy access to the bottom electronic valves, pumps, solenoids, etc.
    OH! and be sure no dishes are in the DW. ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 18 11:08:20 2023
    Oops,

    Here is the pic of the kitchen with the relocated frig.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696690860/in/datetaken/


    On 2/18/2023 11:00 AM, Leon wrote:


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 18 11:00:31 2023
    OK Still quiet here.

    I'll post something.

    I "think" I mentioned repurposing one of or existing kitchen cabinets,
    and relocating it elsewhere in the kitchen.

    And we relocated the refrigerated from the left side of the picture to
    the right side.

    Here it is, our new pull out trash bin and location. I used a Rev-Shelf
    brand that uses a pneumatic piston, like those that hold the car hoods
    up, to aid in opening and closing. It holds 2, 13 gallon bins.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52695684462/in/datetaken/

    AND we repainted the walls and baseboards. My wife did the walls, same
    color, and I painted the baseboards, same color. I thought we did a
    good job. I masked the new floor with 2" blue tape exposing about 1/16"
    of the new floor between the base board and the tape edge. This also
    covered the grout between the tile and baseboard. Then I used a fast
    drying DAP brand caulk and with a wet finger smoothed it out. I made
    sure that I wiped any caulk off of the upper side of the base board with
    a wet paper towel. Then I painted. I eye balled the line between the
    wall paint and the top of the base boards, no masking tape there.

    Apparently it is pretty common to not caulk and just use shoe molding.
    The builder painted the same way in the picture and that has held up
    very well for the past 12 years.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696706248/in/datetaken/

    And on another note, we are thinking about replacing our refrigerator
    with a counter depth vs. regular depth model. I believe we will save approximately 6~8" of protrusion. Our current model protrudes 12" past
    counter top. So we are looking at another Samsung, the Bespoke models
    and those get poor ratings for customer satisfaction and reliability. We
    only had a single incident with the ice maker on our current Samsung
    model about 10 years ago. We want to eliminate the door ice and water dispenser. The Bespoke models that we are looking at have the ice maker
    in the bottom freezer and auto fill a water pitcher inside the unit
    itself. Has any one got a Bespoke model and what are your thoughts? And
    or what did you buy?
    FWIW my wife's sister has a Bespoke model and really likes it.

    Something also interesting, refrigerators seem to be about the same
    price as what we paid 13 years ago.





    On 2/6/2023 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
    We have begun our kitchen re-do.

    Tile guys are here and the tile has been removed from the kitchen, mid
    point of the house.

    We masked but that has not been great but towels at the bottom of closed doors has worked well.  Roomba will be busy!

    We are going with a very close match tile but with a wood plank
    appearance.  We did not want to see a stark color change in our flooring from out entry way through the kitchen to the living room.


    You can see the old tile color and the new tile color in the following pictures.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673207764/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52673236899/in/datetaken/

    I'll post more progress pictures as I build new cabinets and the counter
    tops go in, 30+ linear feet of new counter tops.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Sun Feb 19 15:39:45 2023
    On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 12:00:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    OK Still quiet here.

    I'll post something.

    I "think" I mentioned repurposing one of or existing kitchen cabinets,
    and relocating it elsewhere in the kitchen.

    And we relocated the refrigerated from the left side of the picture to
    the right side.

    Here it is, our new pull out trash bin and location. I used a Rev-Shelf
    brand that uses a pneumatic piston, like those that hold the car hoods
    up, to aid in opening and closing. It holds 2, 13 gallon bins.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52695684462/in/datetaken/

    I love the way you left the top open for easy access. ;-)

    But seriously...

    We have a relatively small galley kitchen. U-shaped counter on one wall,
    fridge and range on the other. To the right of the fridge is "wasted space", required so that the door to the garage/basement can swing open.

    Between the fridge and range is a 24" wide cabinet, giving us some
    counter top next to the range. The previous owners (family of 6) lived
    here for 30 years, with, as far as I can tell, just open space between the fridge and range. That's just one of the many things in this house that
    has often made me say "The solution is so simple, why did they live this
    way for so long?" I built that cabinet within a month of moving in.

    Anyway, we keep our garbage can in that cabinet. The door comes up the
    top of the 13 gallon can, leaving 10" of open space for access. Go ahead,
    call us slops for leaving our garbage exposed, but we have never been fans
    of having to open a cabinet door to throw something away. The short door
    was my compromise between "fully exposed" and "easy access".


    AND we repainted the walls and baseboards. My wife did the walls, same
    color, and I painted the baseboards, same color. I thought we did a
    good job. I masked the new floor with 2" blue tape exposing about 1/16"
    of the new floor between the base board and the tape edge. This also
    covered the grout between the tile and baseboard. Then I used a fast
    drying DAP brand caulk and with a wet finger smoothed it out. I made
    sure that I wiped any caulk off of the upper side of the base board with
    a wet paper towel. Then I painted. I eye balled the line between the
    wall paint and the top of the base boards, no masking tape there.

    I hate painting. Unfortunately I'm too anal to sit back and let SWMBO
    do it.

    We just put Vinyl plank in the kitchen and attached office. We also added
    a shiplap accent wall in the office. All new floor trim in the kitchen, all new 1x3 and 1x4 flat trim in the office. 2 large openings, 1 window and of course, the floor trim.

    As noted above, the basement and garage are accessed from the kitchen.
    There's a landing one step down from the kitchen, so we decided to do the landing with the same flooring. As I was getting ready to do that section,
    I realized that it had been a really long time since we painted that area, so out came the brushes and rollers. I painted the landing and the walls/ceiling down to the basement. A PITA and a delay in the main project. Did I mention that I hate painting?

    For the 10 x 13 office, I painted all the trim and the shiplap before installing
    it so all I had to do was touch up my nail holes, etc. SWMBO is happy, so it was worth the trouble.

    The wall, in process and the finished product. (Just hung the drapes today)

    https://i.imgur.com/WlKJNew.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/HreHvWD.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/WiYncbl.jpg

    Close up of flooring...

    https://i.imgur.com/dR1ExTv.jpg

    Time to shop for a new recliner, lamps and other miscellaneous furnishings.


    Apparently it is pretty common to not caulk and just use shoe molding.
    The builder painted the same way in the picture and that has held up
    very well for the past 12 years.

    There are 2 genes that I wasn't born with:

    The caulking gene and the drywall mudding gene. I hate those tasks
    almost as much as I hate painting.


    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696706248/in/datetaken/

    And on another note, we are thinking about replacing our refrigerator
    with a counter depth vs. regular depth model. I believe we will save approximately 6~8" of protrusion. Our current model protrudes 12" past counter top. So we are looking at another Samsung, the Bespoke models
    and those get poor ratings for customer satisfaction and reliability. We
    only had a single incident with the ice maker on our current Samsung
    model about 10 years ago. We want to eliminate the door ice and water dispenser. The Bespoke models that we are looking at have the ice maker
    in the bottom freezer and auto fill a water pitcher inside the unit
    itself. Has any one got a Bespoke model and what are your thoughts? And
    or what did you buy?

    I can't speak to the Bespoke line (NPI) but I can complain about my new
    Samsung washer and dryer. $1400 for the pair (on sale) and apparently
    the most popular pair they sell. We bought them in August so they are
    still under warranty.

    About a month ago the washer starting making a loud tapping noise
    during the spin cycle. This washer has a filter down near the floor that
    you're supposed to clean every now and then. It turns out the screw that
    holds the filter housing to the frame had come loose (probably never
    tightened to spec). Whenever the washer went into the spin cycle, the
    housing would tap-tap-tap against the frame. The tech had to take half
    the washer apart just to get to that one screw. If that screw was loose,
    I wonder what else is loose and is going to come back and bite me after
    the warranty has expired.

    The dryer has had an intermittent problems since day 1 and I'm about to pull the trigger on a warranty service call. The way this unit work is that you touch
    the power symbol on the digital display to turn it on and then select your settings. Sometimes, randomly, like maybe once a month, the dryer will not
    turn on. Doesn't matter if it's been sitting for days or just turned itself off after the last use. Nothing happens when you touch the power button. I have
    to unplug it and then plug it back in to get it to work. I mentioned it to the tech that fixed the washer and he ran some diagnostics on the dryer, but of course, being an intermittent issue, it work just fine and passed all of his tests.

    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Sun Feb 19 18:32:06 2023
    On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:39:45 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    I can't speak to the Bespoke line (NPI) but I can complain about my new >Samsung washer and dryer. $1400 for the pair (on sale) and apparently
    the most popular pair they sell. We bought them in August so they are
    still under warranty.

    About a month ago the washer starting making a loud tapping noise
    during the spin cycle. This washer has a filter down near the floor that >you're supposed to clean every now and then. It turns out the screw that >holds the filter housing to the frame had come loose (probably never >tightened to spec). Whenever the washer went into the spin cycle, the
    housing would tap-tap-tap against the frame. The tech had to take half
    the washer apart just to get to that one screw. If that screw was loose,
    I wonder what else is loose and is going to come back and bite me after
    the warranty has expired.

    The dryer has had an intermittent problems since day 1 and I'm about to pull >the trigger on a warranty service call. The way this unit work is that you touch
    the power symbol on the digital display to turn it on and then select your >settings. Sometimes, randomly, like maybe once a month, the dryer will not >turn on. Doesn't matter if it's been sitting for days or just turned itself off
    after the last use. Nothing happens when you touch the power button. I have >to unplug it and then plug it back in to get it to work. I mentioned it to the >tech that fixed the washer and he ran some diagnostics on the dryer, but of >course, being an intermittent issue, it work just fine and passed all of his tests.

    ...snip...

    I know that there is a recent recall for Samsung washers I saw, do not
    have the URL anymore though it did not apply to ours.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 19 19:42:08 2023
    On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 7:32:15 PM UTC-5, Markem618 wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:39:45 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    I can't speak to the Bespoke line (NPI) but I can complain about my new >Samsung washer and dryer. $1400 for the pair (on sale) and apparently
    the most popular pair they sell. We bought them in August so they are >still under warranty.

    About a month ago the washer starting making a loud tapping noise
    during the spin cycle. This washer has a filter down near the floor that >you're supposed to clean every now and then. It turns out the screw that >holds the filter housing to the frame had come loose (probably never >tightened to spec). Whenever the washer went into the spin cycle, the >housing would tap-tap-tap against the frame. The tech had to take half
    the washer apart just to get to that one screw. If that screw was loose,
    I wonder what else is loose and is going to come back and bite me after >the warranty has expired.

    The dryer has had an intermittent problems since day 1 and I'm about to pull
    the trigger on a warranty service call. The way this unit work is that you touch
    the power symbol on the digital display to turn it on and then select your >settings. Sometimes, randomly, like maybe once a month, the dryer will not >turn on. Doesn't matter if it's been sitting for days or just turned itself off
    after the last use. Nothing happens when you touch the power button. I have >to unplug it and then plug it back in to get it to work. I mentioned it to the
    tech that fixed the washer and he ran some diagnostics on the dryer, but of >course, being an intermittent issue, it work just fine and passed all of his tests.

    ...snip...
    I know that there is a recent recall for Samsung washers I saw, do not
    have the URL anymore though it did not apply to ours.

    Thanks. I’ll look into it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 20 08:20:03 2023
    On 2/19/2023 5:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 12:00:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    OK Still quiet here.

    I'll post something.

    I "think" I mentioned repurposing one of or existing kitchen cabinets,
    and relocating it elsewhere in the kitchen.

    And we relocated the refrigerated from the left side of the picture to
    the right side.

    Here it is, our new pull out trash bin and location. I used a Rev-Shelf
    brand that uses a pneumatic piston, like those that hold the car hoods
    up, to aid in opening and closing. It holds 2, 13 gallon bins.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52695684462/in/datetaken/

    I love the way you left the top open for easy access. ;-)


    Yeah, me too. My wife will likely want the new counter to be 7"
    longer. ;~)

    But seriously...

    We have a relatively small galley kitchen. U-shaped counter on one wall, fridge and range on the other. To the right of the fridge is "wasted space", required so that the door to the garage/basement can swing open.

    Between the fridge and range is a 24" wide cabinet, giving us some
    counter top next to the range. The previous owners (family of 6) lived
    here for 30 years, with, as far as I can tell, just open space between the fridge and range. That's just one of the many things in this house that
    has often made me say "The solution is so simple, why did they live this
    way for so long?" I built that cabinet within a month of moving in.

    Anyway, we keep our garbage can in that cabinet. The door comes up the
    top of the 13 gallon can, leaving 10" of open space for access. Go ahead, call us slops for leaving our garbage exposed, but we have never been fans
    of having to open a cabinet door to throw something away. The short door
    was my compromise between "fully exposed" and "easy access".

    Our previous Kitchen was a galley style. The inner sink side had an "L"
    at the end and that portion was a single door cabinet. I got rid of
    the "L" and extended the counter top and that side of the kitchen to
    include the cabinet storage that we lost when the "L" disappeared. BUT
    that opened up the walk way into the kitchen. The "L" blocked the
    straight through entrance to the kitchen so you had to walk closer to
    the outer wall of the kitchen to enter the kitchen and then zig zag. Our
    oven was on the outer wall and had a 32" cabinet on both sides. To the
    right of the range I removed the 32" cabinet and built in a new
    microwave tower that also became additional pantry. To the left side of
    the oven I removed the 32" cabinet and replaced it with an 11 foot
    cabinet. extending past where the "L" on the other side used to be.
    Getting rid of the "L" literally allowed us to double the counter space
    and bottom cabinets. Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space.
    The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in
    carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the
    cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the
    3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And
    we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36'
    deep.





    AND we repainted the walls and baseboards. My wife did the walls, same
    color, and I painted the baseboards, same color. I thought we did a
    good job. I masked the new floor with 2" blue tape exposing about 1/16"
    of the new floor between the base board and the tape edge. This also
    covered the grout between the tile and baseboard. Then I used a fast
    drying DAP brand caulk and with a wet finger smoothed it out. I made
    sure that I wiped any caulk off of the upper side of the base board with
    a wet paper towel. Then I painted. I eye balled the line between the
    wall paint and the top of the base boards, no masking tape there.

    I hate painting. Unfortunately I'm too anal to sit back and let SWMBO
    do it.

    Back 20 years ago I helped a dear friend paint rental houses, probably
    20 or so. I learned to paint then. ;~) He did the wall paint, I did
    the oil based trim.



    We just put Vinyl plank in the kitchen and attached office. We also added
    a shiplap accent wall in the office. All new floor trim in the kitchen, all new
    1x3 and 1x4 flat trim in the office. 2 large openings, 1 window and of course,
    the floor trim.

    As noted above, the basement and garage are accessed from the kitchen. There's a landing one step down from the kitchen, so we decided to do the landing with the same flooring. As I was getting ready to do that section,
    I realized that it had been a really long time since we painted that area, so out came the brushes and rollers. I painted the landing and the walls/ceiling down to the basement. A PITA and a delay in the main project. Did I mention that I hate painting?

    For the 10 x 13 office, I painted all the trim and the shiplap before installing
    it so all I had to do was touch up my nail holes, etc. SWMBO is happy, so it was worth the trouble.

    The wall, in process and the finished product. (Just hung the drapes today)

    https://i.imgur.com/WlKJNew.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/HreHvWD.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/WiYncbl.jpg

    Close up of flooring...

    https://i.imgur.com/dR1ExTv.jpg


    All of that looks great, good job. I have been pondering doing that
    same type wall on our back wall.

    Time to shop for a new recliner, lamps and other miscellaneous furnishings.

    It is always something.



    Apparently it is pretty common to not caulk and just use shoe molding.
    The builder painted the same way in the picture and that has held up
    very well for the past 12 years.

    There are 2 genes that I wasn't born with:

    The caulking gene and the drywall mudding gene. I hate those tasks
    almost as much as I hate painting.

    Caulk is easier "if" you start with a small bead, 1/8" max. Then a wet
    finger from a wet paper towel. Even then the 1/8" bead may be a bit
    much as witnessed by your finger build while smoothing the bead. Don't
    over work the bead.

    But yes that becomes an art. Now for me it is a matter of learning to
    not get caulk all over every where. The caulk does not absorb into the
    paper towel so it is ready to transfer from the towel to everything
    else. ;~)

    I have had to repair drywall where out Great Dane would pop holes in the
    wall. She would get excited and spin in a circle and fall into the
    wall. I got very good at doing the repairs including texturing. I
    have never installed drywall, that stuff is too heavy.





    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696706248/in/datetaken/

    And on another note, we are thinking about replacing our refrigerator
    with a counter depth vs. regular depth model. I believe we will save
    approximately 6~8" of protrusion. Our current model protrudes 12" past
    counter top. So we are looking at another Samsung, the Bespoke models
    and those get poor ratings for customer satisfaction and reliability. We
    only had a single incident with the ice maker on our current Samsung
    model about 10 years ago. We want to eliminate the door ice and water
    dispenser. The Bespoke models that we are looking at have the ice maker
    in the bottom freezer and auto fill a water pitcher inside the unit
    itself. Has any one got a Bespoke model and what are your thoughts? And
    or what did you buy?

    I can't speak to the Bespoke line (NPI) but I can complain about my new Samsung washer and dryer. $1400 for the pair (on sale) and apparently
    the most popular pair they sell. We bought them in August so they are
    still under warranty.

    We replaced our Lady Kenmore washer and dryer about 3 years ago. We
    went with LG and so far.....not going to jinx it.



    About a month ago the washer starting making a loud tapping noise
    during the spin cycle. This washer has a filter down near the floor that you're supposed to clean every now and then. It turns out the screw that holds the filter housing to the frame had come loose (probably never tightened to spec). Whenever the washer went into the spin cycle, the
    housing would tap-tap-tap against the frame. The tech had to take half
    the washer apart just to get to that one screw. If that screw was loose,
    I wonder what else is loose and is going to come back and bite me after
    the warranty has expired.

    The dryer has had an intermittent problems since day 1 and I'm about to pull the trigger on a warranty service call. The way this unit work is that you touch
    the power symbol on the digital display to turn it on and then select your settings. Sometimes, randomly, like maybe once a month, the dryer will not turn on. Doesn't matter if it's been sitting for days or just turned itself off
    after the last use. Nothing happens when you touch the power button. I have to unplug it and then plug it back in to get it to work. I mentioned it to the
    tech that fixed the washer and he ran some diagnostics on the dryer, but of course, being an intermittent issue, it work just fine and passed all of his tests.

    ...snip...
    Of course. My 2019 F150's passenger door handle does not always unlock
    or lock by touching the handle and button on the passengers side.
    Intermittent. At first it was only in pretty cold weather. Then that progressed to always. Then lately it worked all of the time regardless
    of temperature until yesterday when it got cold again. Woopee!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Wed Feb 22 17:33:31 2023
    On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 9:20:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    ...snip...

    Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space.
    The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in
    carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the
    cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the
    3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And
    we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36'
    deep.

    I've added drawers where I could in my kitchen. I also put drawers in all
    the lowers at my daughter's house. Lower cabinets have been used in
    kitchens for hundreds of years. Way back then, there were no drawers,
    just doors. I'm sure that when someone first said "Hey, let's put a row
    of drawers right under the counter", the world was thrilled. What a great
    idea! I've always wondered why it took so long for us to realize that lower cabinet doors were the worst idea ever. I mean, how long has been - maybe
    20 years (less?) since drawers in the lower cabinets became common?
    What took us so long, considering that the top drawers were staring us in
    that face all that time, while we were crawling around on the floor looking
    for that wayward pot lid?

    During a project, totally unrelated to my kitchen, I found a found a huge
    void in the pipe/wiring chase that runs from basement to the attic. In this image of your kitchen you have a wall on the left side

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696690860/

    I have a pipe chase in a similar spot. As it turns out, it's mostly empty. I built a 18" W x 11" D x 60" H box and inserted into the wall. That's about
    7 cubic feet of extra cabinet space, essential in a small kitchen. The tall door on the far left.

    https://i.imgur.com/h2Ydh7D.jpg

    As I mentioned earlier, I plan to finish building shaker style doors when
    I'm done with all the other stuff SWMBO has me doing.

    ...snip...


    The wall, in process and the finished product. (Just hung the drapes today)

    https://i.imgur.com/WlKJNew.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/HreHvWD.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/WiYncbl.jpg

    Close up of flooring...

    https://i.imgur.com/dR1ExTv.jpg
    All of that looks great, good job. I have been pondering doing that
    same type wall on our back wall.

    Thanks. We didn't want any seams in the 13' boards at the top, so I
    notched the 3rd board down to hug the trim. Rough cut with a sabre
    saw and finished with a top bearing flush trim bit in my Rocky-30
    router. (If I recall correctly, you pointed me in the direction of that tool.) It's a nice snug fit. No caulk required. ;-)


    Time to shop for a new recliner, lamps and other miscellaneous furnishings.
    It is always something.

    You want a something? Here's a something...

    SWMBO spend several hundred dollars on the curtain rod, rings, drapes, etc.
    for that wall. The rod is adjustable for 48" to 88". They do this by supplying a 48" long 1.25" diameter rod and 2 slightly smaller diameter rods that slide out of each end to the desired length. Those "internal" section have threaded ends so you can screw in various types of finials.

    The problem is that the curtain rings get caught on the ledge caused by the transition from the small section to the large section and you can't close
    the drapes without lifting the rings over the "hump". When you grab the
    drapes to push them upward to get the rings over the hump, the drape pins
    fall out of the drapes. The whole system is a terrible design.

    The transition point:

    https://i.imgur.com/r3B9Qch.jpg

    A snagged ring:

    https://i.imgur.com/Fi03yrb.jpg

    I called customer service (Pottery Barn) and explained the problem. I told
    them that I need another 48" long 1.25" diameter rod which will allow me to create a full-length smooth rod. Now, get this. They don't sell/supply "parts" for this item. The only thing they can do is sent me a replacement which
    will include the outer rod, the inner rods and the mounting brackets. Since it's a replacement, I *technically* I have to return the original one. By *technically* she means that she is going to put a note on my account
    stating that all I have to return is the inner rods and the mounting brackets. IOW, open the box, take out the 48" rod and send the rest back, on their dime. She says that that is only way she can get me what I need to make this system work.

    She also promised to pass my complaint up the food chain so that their buyers know that the system they offer doesn't work very well.




    Apparently it is pretty common to not caulk and just use shoe molding.
    The builder painted the same way in the picture and that has held up
    very well for the past 12 years.

    There are 2 genes that I wasn't born with:

    The caulking gene and the drywall mudding gene. I hate those tasks
    almost as much as I hate painting.
    Caulk is easier "if" you start with a small bead, 1/8" max. Then a wet
    finger from a wet paper towel. Even then the 1/8" bead may be a bit
    much as witnessed by your finger build while smoothing the bead. Don't
    over work the bead.

    But yes that becomes an art. Now for me it is a matter of learning to
    not get caulk all over every where. The caulk does not absorb into the
    paper towel so it is ready to transfer from the towel to everything
    else. ;~)

    OK, so I took your advice, bought a new tube of caulk, cut just the tiniest part of the tip off and used a very, very small bead. Huge difference!
    Thanks. I use a small bowl for finger dipping. That's always worked fine.
    I did learn long ago about the paper towel issue. We use the half sheet
    paper towels and then I cut a bunch of them in half again. Once I use a
    small square to wipe up even the tiniest bit of caulk, I never use it again. That solves the transfer issue.


    I have had to repair drywall where out Great Dane would pop holes in the wall. She would get excited and spin in a circle and fall into the
    wall. I got very good at doing the repairs including texturing. I
    have never installed drywall, that stuff is too heavy.

    I've installed lots of drywall, but I learned a long time ago to pay someone
    to mud it or get my son to do it if he's available. I've been told by the pros that I do a damn good job of hanging it. It's the mudding that I've just never figured out.

    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 23 10:37:58 2023
    On 2/22/2023 7:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 9:20:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    ...snip...

    Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space.
    The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in
    carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the
    cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the
    3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And
    we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36'
    deep.

    I've added drawers where I could in my kitchen. I also put drawers in all
    the lowers at my daughter's house. Lower cabinets have been used in
    kitchens for hundreds of years. Way back then, there were no drawers,
    just doors. I'm sure that when someone first said "Hey, let's put a row
    of drawers right under the counter", the world was thrilled. What a great idea! I've always wondered why it took so long for us to realize that lower cabinet doors were the worst idea ever. I mean, how long has been - maybe
    20 years (less?) since drawers in the lower cabinets became common?
    What took us so long, considering that the top drawers were staring us in that face all that time, while we were crawling around on the floor looking for that wayward pot lid?

    Cost savings is why the builders only put in the top drawers. In more expensive new builds buyers can opt for cabinets with drawers over doors
    but that comes at a significant increase in cost.




    During a project, totally unrelated to my kitchen, I found a found a huge void in the pipe/wiring chase that runs from basement to the attic. In this image of your kitchen you have a wall on the left side

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52696690860/

    This space is 3.5" deep. Maybe a spice rack...


    I have a pipe chase in a similar spot. As it turns out, it's mostly empty. I built a 18" W x 11" D x 60" H box and inserted into the wall. That's about
    7 cubic feet of extra cabinet space, essential in a small kitchen. The tall door on the far left.

    https://i.imgur.com/h2Ydh7D.jpg

    Good for you! We have a similar space in the back of our coat closet.
    Too much trouble to access and the gain would be about 2x2 foot.


    Snip





    You want a something? Here's a something...

    SWMBO spend several hundred dollars on the curtain rod, rings, drapes, etc. for that wall. The rod is adjustable for 48" to 88". They do this by supplying
    a 48" long 1.25" diameter rod and 2 slightly smaller diameter rods that slide out of each end to the desired length. Those "internal" section have threaded ends so you can screw in various types of finials.

    The problem is that the curtain rings get caught on the ledge caused by the transition from the small section to the large section and you can't close the drapes without lifting the rings over the "hump". When you grab the drapes to push them upward to get the rings over the hump, the drape pins fall out of the drapes. The whole system is a terrible design.

    The transition point:

    https://i.imgur.com/r3B9Qch.jpg

    A snagged ring:

    https://i.imgur.com/Fi03yrb.jpg

    I called customer service (Pottery Barn) and explained the problem. I told them that I need another 48" long 1.25" diameter rod which will allow me to create a full-length smooth rod. Now, get this. They don't sell/supply "parts"
    for this item. The only thing they can do is sent me a replacement which
    will include the outer rod, the inner rods and the mounting brackets. Since it's a replacement, I *technically* I have to return the original one. By *technically* she means that she is going to put a note on my account
    stating that all I have to return is the inner rods and the mounting brackets.
    IOW, open the box, take out the 48" rod and send the rest back, on their dime.
    She says that that is only way she can get me what I need to make this system work.

    She also promised to pass my complaint up the food chain so that their buyers know that the system they offer doesn't work very well.

    WE kinda sorta have the same issue in our bedroom. We never open the
    drapes so this is not an issue. If there is not a track and hangers
    that travel in the track this situation can become an issue.







    Apparently it is pretty common to not caulk and just use shoe molding. >>>> The builder painted the same way in the picture and that has held up
    very well for the past 12 years.

    There are 2 genes that I wasn't born with:

    The caulking gene and the drywall mudding gene. I hate those tasks
    almost as much as I hate painting.
    Caulk is easier "if" you start with a small bead, 1/8" max. Then a wet
    finger from a wet paper towel. Even then the 1/8" bead may be a bit
    much as witnessed by your finger build while smoothing the bead. Don't
    over work the bead.

    But yes that becomes an art. Now for me it is a matter of learning to
    not get caulk all over every where. The caulk does not absorb into the
    paper towel so it is ready to transfer from the towel to everything
    else. ;~)

    OK, so I took your advice, bought a new tube of caulk, cut just the tiniest part of the tip off and used a very, very small bead. Huge difference! Thanks. I use a small bowl for finger dipping. That's always worked fine.
    I did learn long ago about the paper towel issue. We use the half sheet
    paper towels and then I cut a bunch of them in half again. Once I use a
    small square to wipe up even the tiniest bit of caulk, I never use it again. That solves the transfer issue.


    I have had to repair drywall where out Great Dane would pop holes in the
    wall. She would get excited and spin in a circle and fall into the
    wall. I got very good at doing the repairs including texturing. I
    have never installed drywall, that stuff is too heavy.

    I've installed lots of drywall, but I learned a long time ago to pay someone to mud it or get my son to do it if he's available. I've been told by the pros
    that I do a damn good job of hanging it. It's the mudding that I've just never
    figured out.

    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 23 09:27:53 2023
    On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 11:38:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/22/2023 7:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 9:20:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    ...snip...

    Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space.
    The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in
    carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the
    cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the >> 3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And
    we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36'
    deep.

    I've added drawers where I could in my kitchen. I also put drawers in all the lowers at my daughter's house. Lower cabinets have been used in kitchens for hundreds of years. Way back then, there were no drawers,
    just doors. I'm sure that when someone first said "Hey, let's put a row
    of drawers right under the counter", the world was thrilled. What a great idea! I've always wondered why it took so long for us to realize that lower cabinet doors were the worst idea ever. I mean, how long has been - maybe 20 years (less?) since drawers in the lower cabinets became common?
    What took us so long, considering that the top drawers were staring us in that face all that time, while we were crawling around on the floor looking for that wayward pot lid?
    Cost savings is why the builders only put in the top drawers. In more expensive new builds buyers can opt for cabinets with drawers over doors
    but that comes at a significant increase in cost.

    I get that, but AFAIK opting for drawers at a higher cost is a (relatively) modern
    day thing.

    I've never had a house built. In your estimation, how long ago did the option begin to be offered on a regular basis, in the general housing market? Today,
    I can walk into Home Depot and buy a drawer base cabinet right off the shelf.
    I don't recall when that started, but in the long-term history of base cabinets,
    it's a relatively new thing.

    I did a quick search on the "evolution" of the kitchen, and it seems that it hasn't
    been much more than 30 years since drawers began to replace doors on a regular basis. That's makes drawers essentially a newborn.

    I recall my grandfather's house, which he built in the early 60's. (He was a mason).
    His base cabinets had doors, but most of them had pull-out shelves using wood-on-
    wood sliders. I consider those to be the pre-cursor to the drawers with sides and
    drawer fronts like we have today.

    I think my point is still valid. Even if the occasional drawer base cabinet appeared
    in the 50's or 60's, it still took humans a very long time to realize what a huge
    convenience they are.

    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 25 15:08:42 2023
    On 2/23/2023 11:27 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 11:38:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/22/2023 7:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 9:20:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    ...snip...

    Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space. >>>> The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in
    carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the
    cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the >>>> 3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And >>>> we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36' >>>> deep.

    I've added drawers where I could in my kitchen. I also put drawers in all >>> the lowers at my daughter's house. Lower cabinets have been used in
    kitchens for hundreds of years. Way back then, there were no drawers,
    just doors. I'm sure that when someone first said "Hey, let's put a row
    of drawers right under the counter", the world was thrilled. What a great >>> idea! I've always wondered why it took so long for us to realize that lower >>> cabinet doors were the worst idea ever. I mean, how long has been - maybe >>> 20 years (less?) since drawers in the lower cabinets became common?
    What took us so long, considering that the top drawers were staring us in >>> that face all that time, while we were crawling around on the floor looking >>> for that wayward pot lid?
    Cost savings is why the builders only put in the top drawers. In more
    expensive new builds buyers can opt for cabinets with drawers over doors
    but that comes at a significant increase in cost.

    I get that, but AFAIK opting for drawers at a higher cost is a (relatively) modern
    day thing.

    I've never had a house built. In your estimation, how long ago did the option begin to be offered on a regular basis, in the general housing market? Today, I can walk into Home Depot and buy a drawer base cabinet right off the shelf. I don't recall when that started, but in the long-term history of base cabinets,
    it's a relatively new thing.


    Well I did day in the higher priced homes. Our first home, that we had
    built in 1980, was a starter home and there was no option. But
    remodeled a kitchen in 1996 and put in drawers under the counter top
    cook top. Our present home offered drawers had we wanted to pay a few
    thousand extra. That would have only been on our island cabinet. Our
    bath room vanities have drawers top to bottom beside the plumbing. And
    the home that we "were" going to build in Oct 2020 offered the
    mulit-drawer cabinets. We were going to have a couple of those added,
    it came with one as standard. And that was a few thousand dollars too.
    The builder was offering $25K in upgrades so I was not reluctant to
    do that. We did not even use up the whole $25K.

    I would say that the all drawer cabinets have been around for a few
    decades down here. You can get much nicer cabinets, as an upgrade,
    through the builders suppliers, when building a home.



    I did a quick search on the "evolution" of the kitchen, and it seems that it hasn't
    been much more than 30 years since drawers began to replace doors on a regular
    basis. That's makes drawers essentially a newborn.

    I recall my grandfather's house, which he built in the early 60's. (He was a mason).
    His base cabinets had doors, but most of them had pull-out shelves using wood-on-
    wood sliders. I consider those to be the pre-cursor to the drawers with sides and
    drawer fronts like we have today.

    I think my point is still valid. Even if the occasional drawer base cabinet appeared
    in the 50's or 60's, it still took humans a very long time to realize what a huge
    convenience they are.

    I think disposable income may have played a part too.


    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 25 16:08:35 2023
    On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 4:08:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2023 11:27 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 11:38:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/22/2023 7:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 9:20:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    ...snip...

    Our present kitchen was considerably smaller. It
    will be much larger as far as lower cabinet storage and counter space. >>>> The builder gave us 5 drawers, 2 in the island and 3 smaller ones in >>>> carious spots in the kitchen. The larger of those 3 was in the new
    garbage reciptical unit. I added 6 drawers to the island, behind the >>>> cabinet doors 11 years ago. With the new lower cabinets I am loosing the
    3 small drawers to be replaced with 18 considerably larger drawers. And >>>> we are gaining about 15' of counter space and 2/3's of that will be 36' >>>> deep.

    I've added drawers where I could in my kitchen. I also put drawers in all
    the lowers at my daughter's house. Lower cabinets have been used in
    kitchens for hundreds of years. Way back then, there were no drawers, >>> just doors. I'm sure that when someone first said "Hey, let's put a row >>> of drawers right under the counter", the world was thrilled. What a great
    idea! I've always wondered why it took so long for us to realize that lower
    cabinet doors were the worst idea ever. I mean, how long has been - maybe
    20 years (less?) since drawers in the lower cabinets became common?
    What took us so long, considering that the top drawers were staring us in
    that face all that time, while we were crawling around on the floor looking
    for that wayward pot lid?
    Cost savings is why the builders only put in the top drawers. In more
    expensive new builds buyers can opt for cabinets with drawers over doors >> but that comes at a significant increase in cost.

    I get that, but AFAIK opting for drawers at a higher cost is a (relatively) modern
    day thing.

    I've never had a house built. In your estimation, how long ago did the option
    begin to be offered on a regular basis, in the general housing market? Today,
    I can walk into Home Depot and buy a drawer base cabinet right off the shelf.
    I don't recall when that started, but in the long-term history of base cabinets,
    it's a relatively new thing.
    Well I did day in the higher priced homes. Our first home, that we had
    built ibn 1980, was a starter home and there was no option. But
    remodeled a kitchen in 1996 and put in drawers under the counter top
    cook top. Our present home offered drawers had we wanted to pay a few thousand extra. That would have only been on our island cabinet. Our
    bath room vanities have drawers top to bottom beside the plumbing. And
    the home that we "were" going to build in Oct 2020 offered the
    mulit-drawer cabinets. We were going to have a couple of those added,
    it came with one as standard. And that was a few thousand dollars too.
    The builder was offering $25K in upgrades so I was not reluctant to
    do that. We did not even use up the whole $25K.
    t
    I would say that the all drawer cabinets have been around for a few
    decades down here. You can get much nicer cabinets, as an upgrade,
    through the builders suppliers, when building a home.

    A couple of decades. That’s my point. Base cabinets have been around
    for centuries. It sure took a long time for drawers to become common.
    Even if we ignore the upgrades available when choosing cabinets for a
    home build, woodworkers have been building their own kitchen cabinets
    (and vanities, for that matter) for a long, long time. Until recently (i.e. a couple of decades) I’m pretty sure that most base cabinets (and vanities) were built with doors.

    Considering all the other inventions that happened in that same hundreds of years time frame, it just seems strange that drawer base cabinets in kitchens took so long to make an appearance when they make so much sense.

    ...snip...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)