I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts andother things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of woodon top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cutNo comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts and
I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. Theytop and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very
fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into
it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well.
It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of wood on
I have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not
so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4"
or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts and
on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very
fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into
it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well.
It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of wood
could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it prettyI have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be
replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not
so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4"
or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very
user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess I
42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to the$775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.
As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy touse the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.
Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Mightmake sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:22:26 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be >> >> missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group) >> >> but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >> >> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >> >> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >> >> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts and
on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very
fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into
it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well.
It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of wood
could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it pretty darnI have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be
replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not
so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4"
or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very
user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess I
775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to the $
You can buy a second and cut 8' pieces. ;-)the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.
As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy to use
There are certain situations where neither the table saw or the trackmake sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny shop.
saw seem to be the right tool. The piece is big enough that I really
don't want to use the table saw and setting the track up is a PITA for
one cut. I've been thinking about getting a short track and just do
that. I have enough track to build a railroad but nothing shorter
than 55". I could cut one down on a track saw. ;-) I just might.
Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Might
No question they're great for installers. At 42#, hauling one around
would be easy. I didn't like the wobbly legs, either but this would
be an acceptable tradeoff for a mobile workstation. One of the
attendees at the Festool show said that he put a shelf across the
bottom rungs and it's fine. That defeats its purpose as a mobile saw
but solves the wobblies, apparently. They have a router MFT table too.
I *really* didn't like how wobbly it was. I know everything is
referenced to the top and movement doesn't matter to the cut but I
want to work on a solid bench.
Leon has and MFT for his shop and loves it. I was hoping he was still
around to answer questions.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:21:54 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:22:26 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be >> >> >> missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group) >> >> >> but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >> >> >> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >> >> >> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >> >> >> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts and
wood on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very
fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into
it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well.
It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of
could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it pretty darnI have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be
replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not
so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4"
or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very
user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess I
775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to the $
the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.You can buy a second and cut 8' pieces. ;-)
As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy to use
make sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny shop.There are certain situations where neither the table saw or the track
saw seem to be the right tool. The piece is big enough that I really
don't want to use the table saw and setting the track up is a PITA for
one cut. I've been thinking about getting a short track and just do
that. I have enough track to build a railroad but nothing shorter
than 55". I could cut one down on a track saw. ;-) I just might.
Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Might
No question they're great for installers. At 42#, hauling one around
would be easy. I didn't like the wobbly legs, either but this would
be an acceptable tradeoff for a mobile workstation. One of the
attendees at the Festool show said that he put a shelf across the
bottom rungs and it's fine. That defeats its purpose as a mobile saw
but solves the wobblies, apparently. They have a router MFT table too.
I *really* didn't like how wobbly it was. I know everything is
referenced to the top and movement doesn't matter to the cut but I
want to work on a solid bench.
Leon has and MFT for his shop and loves it. I was hoping he was still
around to answer questions.
I am probably the wrong person to comment in this thread. Since I do not own an MFT and have never used it. Kind of like you. But I look at it and think, I already own tools that can do what the MFT does, but easier than the MFT. So why would I wantan MFT? Unless there is a real reason, such as the space aspect or portability aspect. If a woodworker already owns all the tools, then the MFT does not seem like a good replacement. If you are just starting out and have nothing, then maybe the MFT is
As for shorter rails, I own an 800mm (31"). Not the holey one. Regular rail. I use it a little. But its not much more convenient than the 1400. And if you are cutting short things that fit the 800 rail, then they are about short enough to cut withthe table saw or SCMS.
I like my Festool track saw. Its great. And great at many different cuts. But its bad at some cuts too. And the MFT seems to try to improve on the bad cuts. It probably helps. But there are other tools that are the very best for the bad track sawcuts. So why not just get the better other tool. Why try to improve on the track saw and get it just to mediocre. When you can get great with a different tool.
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 12:53:51 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:and other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:21:54 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:22:26 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >> >> >> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >> >> >> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >> >> >> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >> >> >> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >> >> >> year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts
wood on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very >> >> fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into >> >> it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well. >> >> It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of
could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it pretty darnI have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be >> >> replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not >> >> so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4" >> >> or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very
user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess I
the $775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to
use the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.You can buy a second and cut 8' pieces. ;-)
As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy to
make sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny shop.There are certain situations where neither the table saw or the track
saw seem to be the right tool. The piece is big enough that I really
don't want to use the table saw and setting the track up is a PITA for
one cut. I've been thinking about getting a short track and just do
that. I have enough track to build a railroad but nothing shorter
than 55". I could cut one down on a track saw. ;-) I just might.
Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Might
No question they're great for installers. At 42#, hauling one around
would be easy. I didn't like the wobbly legs, either but this would
be an acceptable tradeoff for a mobile workstation. One of the
attendees at the Festool show said that he put a shelf across the
bottom rungs and it's fine. That defeats its purpose as a mobile saw
but solves the wobblies, apparently. They have a router MFT table too.
I *really* didn't like how wobbly it was. I know everything is
referenced to the top and movement doesn't matter to the cut but I
want to work on a solid bench.
Leon has and MFT for his shop and loves it. I was hoping he was still
around to answer questions.
an MFT? Unless there is a real reason, such as the space aspect or portability aspect. If a woodworker already owns all the tools, then the MFT does not seem like a good replacement. If you are just starting out and have nothing, then maybe the MFT is aI am probably the wrong person to comment in this thread. Since I do not own an MFT and have never used it. Kind of like you. But I look at it and think, I already own tools that can do what the MFT does, but easier than the MFT. So why would I want
table saw or SCMS.As for shorter rails, I own an 800mm (31"). Not the holey one. Regular rail. I use it a little. But its not much more convenient than the 1400. And if you are cutting short things that fit the 800 rail, then they are about short enough to cut with the
I often get into a situation where I have a long piece (8' forSo why not just get the better other tool. Why try to improve on the track saw and get it just to mediocre. When you can get great with a different tool.
argument's sake) that may be 2' wide that I want to cut cross-wise. A
55" track is a pain because, while the bench I use will easily handle
it, the space around it gets cramped. It's too long to cut on the
table saw easily and the 55" rail gets to be a pain. Your 31" rail
might be a good alternative. That's pretty much what I'd use the MFT
for.
The MFT is also really good at cutting sheets at an angle. I have to
admit, though, that I think I've only needed to do it once. I think it
would replace a SMCS, though like most here, I already have one
(three, actually).
I like my Festool track saw. Its great. And great at many different cuts. But its bad at some cuts too. And the MFT seems to try to improve on the bad cuts. It probably helps. But there are other tools that are the very best for the bad track saw cuts.
Do you have an example of these cuts and tools?
This is a really good discussion. It's exactly what I was looking for.
I'm really on the fence (NPI).
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges.  It works well enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time.  Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that.  The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items.  Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
On 11/11/2022 10:47 AM, Leon wrote:
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I doAnd I have cut countless, well many thousands of, mortises with my
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Domino on that table using its dogs and clamping elements. Fast and easy.
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:things?
On 11/11/2022 10:47 AM, Leon wrote:
And I have cut countless, well many thousands of, mortises with myLeon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Domino on that table using its dogs and clamping elements. Fast and easy.
Seems to me you are saying the MFT/3 is a good work table. And you use its associated dogs, clamps, and holes in the table top to hold and clamp lots of things. Great. But what about its main purpose(?) of using the track saw and rails on top to cut
I looked on Google and the official MFT/3 perforated top is sold for $172. And Amazon has copies for less. Couldn't you easily make a base out of 2x4s and achieve your usage of the MFT/3? Or get fancy and make a folding base of sorts.On 11/12/2022 1:36 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:easy.
On 11/11/2022 10:47 AM, Leon wrote:
And I have cut countless, well many thousands of, mortises with myLeon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Domino on that table using its dogs and clamping elements. Fast and
Seems to me you are saying the MFT/3 is a good work table. And youuse its associated dogs, clamps, and holes in the table top to hold and
I looked on Google and the official MFT/3 perforated top is sold for$172. And Amazon has copies for less. Couldn't you easily make a base
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>I think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you are
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
I use the ratcheting Festool clamps through the bench holes and locatedAs for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:things?
On 11/11/2022 10:47 AM, Leon wrote:
And I have cut countless, well many thousands of, mortises with myLeon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Domino on that table using its dogs and clamping elements. Fast and easy.
Seems to me you are saying the MFT/3 is a good work table. And you use its associated dogs, clamps, and holes in the table top to hold and clamp lots of things. Great. But what about its main purpose(?) of using the track saw and rails on top to cut
I looked on Google and the official MFT/3 perforated top is sold for $172. And Amazon has copies for less. Couldn't you easily make a base out of 2x4s and achieve your usage of the MFT/3? Or get fancy and make a folding base of sorts.
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be >>>> missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group) >>>> but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be >>> missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group) >>> but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the
pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is
two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well
enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all
of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at
all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to
be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole
set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the indexI think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you are
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
holding the other end of the 42" track. I don't think anything is
going to be fool proof in this type set up.
The indexing support indexes against a stop that is placed and fixed
inside the MFT/3 side rail slot. You make that adjustment for that
piece. It is for resetting up the track to make 90 degree cuts if you
break the set up down after use. As for angles, I have never cut
angles on mine, the indexing pin on the support would be at an angle to
the slot in the track and I can see how there could be play. BUT even
Incra miter gauges and long extension fences have play. Keep in mind
that 1/4" play at the end of 42" may only equate to being 1/3 of a
degree.
I know that 1/4" play seems pretty sloppy but you may not be
able to measure the degree result from one extreme to the next.
If you
are looking for dead on accuracy consider just using the track aligned
with marks on the work, less the protractor, hinge, mounting hardware.
For the time and effort to break down the track saw set up I simply
don't use it in that capacity. But as I mentioned on another response
I do use the 42" track by it self quite often. And the track saw
option to the MFT/3 is less than buying the 42" rack alone.
If you need to do "a lot" of "angle" cutting of panels this may be a
good choice. I do not cut a lot of angles and my miter saw and or my
TS and or simply measuring and aligning the TS track to pencil marks is
good enough for me, and I can be pretty anal.
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do
not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs
are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. WhenI use the ratcheting Festool clamps through the bench holes and located
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
at the back and side of the Workstation. The ratcheting handle is on
the top side of the bench and does not get in the way back there in that >location.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:59:38 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:and other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 12:53:51 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:21:54 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:22:26 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:56:06 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I must be
missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's group)
but that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is
just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >> >> >> >> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on
the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >> >> >> >> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >> >> >> >> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >> >> >> >> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has
never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >> >> >> >> year.".
Leon?
No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts
wood on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They
were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very >> >> >> fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went
back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees
standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into >> >> >> it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things
about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well. >> >> >> It could have been so much more robust.
Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of
I could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it pretty darnI have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge
banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be >> >> >> replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not >> >> >> so great at "cross-cutting".
I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4" >> >> >> or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2",
IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but
surface clamps will, which is always a problem.
Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around
like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very
user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts.
The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If
it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.
Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess
the $775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to
use the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.You can buy a second and cut 8' pieces. ;-)
As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy to
make sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny shop.There are certain situations where neither the table saw or the track
saw seem to be the right tool. The piece is big enough that I really
don't want to use the table saw and setting the track up is a PITA for
one cut. I've been thinking about getting a short track and just do
that. I have enough track to build a railroad but nothing shorter
than 55". I could cut one down on a track saw. ;-) I just might.
Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Might
an MFT? Unless there is a real reason, such as the space aspect or portability aspect. If a woodworker already owns all the tools, then the MFT does not seem like a good replacement. If you are just starting out and have nothing, then maybe the MFT is aNo question they're great for installers. At 42#, hauling one around
would be easy. I didn't like the wobbly legs, either but this would
be an acceptable tradeoff for a mobile workstation. One of the
attendees at the Festool show said that he put a shelf across the
bottom rungs and it's fine. That defeats its purpose as a mobile saw
but solves the wobblies, apparently. They have a router MFT table too.
I *really* didn't like how wobbly it was. I know everything is
referenced to the top and movement doesn't matter to the cut but I
want to work on a solid bench.
Leon has and MFT for his shop and loves it. I was hoping he was still
around to answer questions.
I am probably the wrong person to comment in this thread. Since I do not own an MFT and have never used it. Kind of like you. But I look at it and think, I already own tools that can do what the MFT does, but easier than the MFT. So why would I want
the table saw or SCMS.
As for shorter rails, I own an 800mm (31"). Not the holey one. Regular rail. I use it a little. But its not much more convenient than the 1400. And if you are cutting short things that fit the 800 rail, then they are about short enough to cut with
cuts. So why not just get the better other tool. Why try to improve on the track saw and get it just to mediocre. When you can get great with a different tool.I often get into a situation where I have a long piece (8' for
argument's sake) that may be 2' wide that I want to cut cross-wise. A
55" track is a pain because, while the bench I use will easily handle
it, the space around it gets cramped. It's too long to cut on the
table saw easily and the 55" rail gets to be a pain. Your 31" rail
might be a good alternative. That's pretty much what I'd use the MFT
for.
The MFT is also really good at cutting sheets at an angle. I have to
admit, though, that I think I've only needed to do it once. I think it
would replace a SMCS, though like most here, I already have one
(three, actually).
I like my Festool track saw. Its great. And great at many different cuts. But its bad at some cuts too. And the MFT seems to try to improve on the bad cuts. It probably helps. But there are other tools that are the very best for the bad track saw
guides that fit onto twin slot guide rails to allow you to get repeatable width cuts. The MFT might also have something like this built in. As for cutting small parts, track saws just aren't really designed for that. If I had a 3" wide short board andDo you have an example of these cuts and tools?
For the bad at certain cuts, the track saw is not great at ripping to exact widths, or cutting small pieces. I know there are parallel guides to make the ripping to exact widths repeatable. And I suspect they work. Many different companies sell
lengths. Say 13" instead of the final 12", a miter saw would take care of everything in 30 seconds. Or spend a half hour monkeying on a MFT. Or trying to cross cut small or short pieces with a track saw is also not easy.
But, but, but, if you are sizing plywood sides for kitchen cabinets, top and bottom, then maybe the MFT would be a good choice. Kitchen cabinets are about 24" by 36". Roughly. Maybe more like 22" by 34". MFT once you spend 10 minutes settingeverything up, it would handle cutting all the sides of plywood or MDF to official size. Table saw could do this too. And would be my choice. But maybe a 2' by 3' is more than you want to put through your table saw. I have a 52" wide Biesemeyer fence
Also just to add this in. I think the MFT is advertised as being good at making 90 degree cuts. Setup your fence and stop blocks right and then you can just stuff pieces in and cut to 90 degrees using the track saw and rail. But if you are only doingone or two, then maybe you could buy one of those attachments that fit onto guide rails that act like a square. If you only making 2 cuts instead of 20 cuts, then a square attachment might be better than setting up the MFT. Maybe. Or use a miter sled
Most tools have a set of tasks its good at. But not good at other tasks. I'm not a fan of adapting a tool to do everything. That usually ends up being mediocre at best. But I understand sometimes due to cost or necessity you do have to do that.
degree angle cut on bookshelf sides, then it might be the tool of choice. But how many of those do you do in a lifetime? Not saying the MFT is not useful or even ideal in the right situation. But its probably a very small situations.
This is a really good discussion. It's exactly what I was looking for.
I'm really on the fence (NPI).
Again, I am not an expert on the MFT. Ha Ha. Have hardly ever seen them. But they just don't seem ideal for many situations. You can make the same cuts easier with other tools. Likely tools you already own. But for something like making a 37
Track saw great. I like mine. For cutting big sheets of plywood down to smaller pieces, its great. But once you get to the smaller pieces of plywood, then why not use a table saw. Once you get down to 3 foot by 3 foot, I can easily maneuver andcarry those size pieces around. They are not 4 foot by 8 foot heavy plywood full sheets. MFT seems designed to work with plywood and wood that is less than 3x3 foot. Table saw and SCMS do great with those sizes too. Why not use them since you already
I wouldn't use a track saw to rip boards. It's underpowered for most
wood. Great for sheet goods, not so great on hardwood. That's the
territory of 3HP table saws.
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 09:19:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>must be
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
dogsbe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
must beOn 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be
used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the
rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every
year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge
that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
The cure is to NOT put pressure on the track when it is pivoted up andI think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you arebe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the
MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved
for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get
set?
holding the other end of the 42" track. I don't think anything is
going to be fool proof in this type set up.
If it were cast, it would have a lot less. You can see the sheet
metal bending when you put even very little side pressure on the
track. In the 90-degree position the opposite side index reduces the
play a lot. It wouldn't take much to make it better.
But all of those parts and the 42" track are $20 less expensive thanThe indexing support indexes against a stop that is placed and fixed
inside the MFT/3 side rail slot. You make that adjustment for that
piece. It is for resetting up the track to make 90 degree cuts if you
break the set up down after use. As for angles, I have never cut
angles on mine, the indexing pin on the support would be at an angle to
the slot in the track and I can see how there could be play. BUT even
Incra miter gauges and long extension fences have play. Keep in mind
that 1/4" play at the end of 42" may only equate to being 1/3 of a
degree.
The miter gauge and fence looks like a pretty expensive part to never
use. ;-0 Frankly, I've never used my track saw for angles either.
I simply drew it out on Sketchup. A 42" horizontal line and up 1/4" atI know that 1/4" play seems pretty sloppy but you may not be
able to measure the degree result from one extreme to the next.
I get 1/8 of a degree - point taken (if I didn't blow the arithmetic 1/2-degree per inch). With the indexing pin, it's more like 1/16", so completely irrelevant. Hard to believe that I didn't screw up the
arithmetic. 30 * 2pi inches in the circumference, divided by 360
equals 1/2 inch per degree. 1/4" = 1/8 degree. Seems a square is superfluous. ;-)
Yes, the table alone is $675, add the 42"track/miter gauge option forIf you
are looking for dead on accuracy consider just using the track aligned
with marks on the work, less the protractor, hinge, mounting hardware.
For the time and effort to break down the track saw set up I simply
don't use it in that capacity. But as I mentioned on another response
I do use the 42" track by it self quite often. And the track saw
option to the MFT/3 is less than buying the 42" rack alone.
The option implies the table, though. The function is then $775.
Yes, $20 less expensive than buying the track by itself.
If you need to do "a lot" of "angle" cutting of panels this may be a
good choice. I do not cut a lot of angles and my miter saw and or my
TS and or simply measuring and aligning the TS track to pencil marks is
good enough for me, and I can be pretty anal.
THe angle unit comes with the track for that $100.
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
The $200 was a type-o, should have been $100.
dogsAs for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
YES, I was just commenting on how I attach the Shaper workstation to theI use the ratcheting Festool clamps through the bench holes and locatedare constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When
not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but
it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
at the back and side of the Workstation. The ratcheting handle is on
the top side of the bench and does not get in the way back there in that
location.
It depends on what you're doing no? I've been in many situations
where it would be nice if the clamp were only 1/2" off the table or
so. Cases where I'm using a router, for instance, and don't want to
get the router tied up in the clamp. I could see this, in spades, with
the Origin.
On 11/12/2022 2:57 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I wouldn't use a track saw to rip boards. It's underpowered for most
wood. Great for sheet goods, not so great on hardwood. That's the
territory of 3HP table saws.
Not an issue with a TS 75. And remember the growling you hear when
cutting is the motor constantly adjusting to maintain a constant speed.
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 09:19:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>must be
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
dogsbe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>> set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
must beOn 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When >>>> not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but >>>> it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
The cure is to NOT put pressure on the track when it is pivoted up andI think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you arebe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>> set?
holding the other end of the 42" track. I don't think anything is
going to be fool proof in this type set up.
If it were cast, it would have a lot less. You can see the sheet
metal bending when you put even very little side pressure on the
track. In the 90-degree position the opposite side index reduces the
play a lot. It wouldn't take much to make it better.
off of the indexing pin. I assure you that even cast will flex.
But all of those parts and the 42" track are $20 less expensive than
The indexing support indexes against a stop that is placed and fixed
inside the MFT/3 side rail slot. You make that adjustment for that
piece. It is for resetting up the track to make 90 degree cuts if you
break the set up down after use. As for angles, I have never cut
angles on mine, the indexing pin on the support would be at an angle to
the slot in the track and I can see how there could be play. BUT even
Incra miter gauges and long extension fences have play. Keep in mind
that 1/4" play at the end of 42" may only equate to being 1/3 of a
degree.
The miter gauge and fence looks like a pretty expensive part to never
use. ;-0 Frankly, I've never used my track saw for angles either.
buying the 42" track alone by itself. I have cut angles with my track
saw and quite accurately simply by marking the panel and aligning the
track. The MFT/3 with the track/angle option would be better for
repeated cuts and cuts narrow enough to fit.
I simply drew it out on Sketchup. A 42" horizontal line and up 1/4" at
I know that 1/4" play seems pretty sloppy but you may not be
able to measure the degree result from one extreme to the next.
I get 1/8 of a degree - point taken (if I didn't blow the arithmetic
1/2-degree per inch). With the indexing pin, it's more like 1/16", so
completely irrelevant. Hard to believe that I didn't screw up the
arithmetic. 30 * 2pi inches in the circumference, divided by 360
equals 1/2 inch per degree. 1/4" = 1/8 degree. Seems a square is
superfluous. ;-)
one end of the line and back to the beginning of the horizontal line.
Then measured the angle between the 2 lines.
Yes, the table alone is $675, add the 42"track/miter gauge option for
If you
are looking for dead on accuracy consider just using the track aligned
with marks on the work, less the protractor, hinge, mounting hardware.
For the time and effort to break down the track saw set up I simply
don't use it in that capacity. But as I mentioned on another response
I do use the 42" track by it self quite often. And the track saw
option to the MFT/3 is less than buying the 42" rack alone.
The option implies the table, though. The function is then $775.
$100 more, $775.
Or the table alone for $675 and add just the 42" track, no miter gauge,
for $120 more, $795.
Yes, $20 less expensive than buying the track by itself.
If you need to do "a lot" of "angle" cutting of panels this may be a
good choice. I do not cut a lot of angles and my miter saw and or my
TS and or simply measuring and aligning the TS track to pencil marks is
good enough for me, and I can be pretty anal.
THe angle unit comes with the track for that $100.
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
The $200 was a type-o, should have been $100.
dogsAs for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
YES, I was just commenting on how I attach the Shaper workstation to the >MFT/3. In this situation the Origin never gets close to the clamp handles.I use the ratcheting Festool clamps through the bench holes and locatedare constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When >>>> not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but >>>> it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
at the back and side of the Workstation. The ratcheting handle is on
the top side of the bench and does not get in the way back there in that >>> location.
It depends on what you're doing no? I've been in many situations
where it would be nice if the clamp were only 1/2" off the table or
so. Cases where I'm using a router, for instance, and don't want to
get the router tied up in the clamp. I could see this, in spades, with
the Origin.
I typically never the hold down clamps unless they are required. I
normally use the side clamping Festool Element clamps along with the dogs. >When cutting a Domino mortise on the end of a board I place 2 dogs along
one side of the board, then a clamping element on the opposite about
halfway between the dogs. The end of the board hangs off of the MFT/3
a few inches.
The advantage to side clamping over clamping down is that the clamp
maintains it's position and does not have to be readjusted with each
board, assuming the boards are the same width. Still even width
adjustments are quicker than closing the hold down clamp each time.
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 09:19:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>must be
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
dogsbe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>> set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
must beOn 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When >>>> not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads
stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but >>>> it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can
use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
The cure is to NOT put pressure on the track when it is pivoted up andI think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you arebe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index
tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>> set?
holding the other end of the 42" track. I don't think anything is
going to be fool proof in this type set up.
If it were cast, it would have a lot less. You can see the sheet
metal bending when you put even very little side pressure on the
track. In the 90-degree position the opposite side index reduces the
play a lot. It wouldn't take much to make it better.
off of the indexing pin. I assure you that even cast will flex.
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:22:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I did some playing tonight, thinking about this some more. Miter
On 11/12/2022 1:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 09:19:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>must be
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
dogsbe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index >>>>> tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>>> set?
The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's
still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it. >>>>>
As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do >>>>>> not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and
must beOn 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.
Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my
workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When >>>>> not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads >>>>> stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but >>>>> it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can >>>>> use the Festool mounting parts.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 11/5/2022 7:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I was at Highland today taking a serious look at the MFT/3. I
group)missing something (so was the sales guy and the Festool Owner's
used tobut that think is about as accurate as a dull axe. The rail hinge is >>>>>>> just stamped steel, as is the pin it sits on. Before resting on the >>>>>>> pin there is about 1/4" play in the rail. Even after it's sitting on >>>>>>> the pin, there is about 1/16" play. How the hell can this thing be >>>>>>> used for woodworking. Framing, maybe.
Stamped steel hinges? It's worse than just a hinge. The "hinge" is >>>>>>> two pins with about 1-1/2" steel arms to hold the rail. Moving the >>>>>>> rail flexes these arms. It's a terrible design.
FOG members say something like "Yeah, it's a terrible design and has >>>>>>> never been addressed but at least they make it more expensive every >>>>>>> year.".
Leon?
I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well >>>>>> enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge >>>>>> that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all >>>>>> of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at >>>>>> all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It
The cure is to NOT put pressure on the track when it is pivoted up andI think most any type of hinge would have a lot of play if you arebe that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the >>>>>> MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole >>>>>> set up 8~10 years ago.
The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index >>>>> tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved >>>>> for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail
without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get >>>>> set?
holding the other end of the 42" track. I don't think anything is
going to be fool proof in this type set up.
If it were cast, it would have a lot less. You can see the sheet
metal bending when you put even very little side pressure on the
track. In the 90-degree position the opposite side index reduces the
play a lot. It wouldn't take much to make it better.
off of the indexing pin. I assure you that even cast will flex.
gauges have some slop in them but, at least the one I was playing with
is steel (Incra 1000HD). OTOH, my TS fence doesn't flex at all. I
would have thought the track would be similar but there isn't pressure
on it that there is a TS fence.
The other question I answered for myself was the position of the track indexing support. I just realized that there is no reason to move
this, or the track. In fact, I remember the Festool rep saying that
many people route a slot and embed a strip of HDPE. When it gets too
cut up, just replace the strip. It's obvious that the rail would have
to be fixed for this to work.
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