• OT Question

    From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 7 19:42:07 2021
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Michael on Tue Sep 7 19:57:44 2021
    On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:42:10 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?


    It's right next to the 1/2" socket adaptor for my impact wrench.

    Let me know when you find it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill@21:1/5 to Michael on Wed Sep 8 00:39:21 2021
    On 9/7/2021 10:42 PM, Michael wrote:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)


    Try to recall the last think you did with it--it may still be there!
    (That seems like something Yogi Berra could have said--I didn't know he
    was a woodworker)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Puckdropper@21:1/5 to Michael on Wed Sep 8 08:13:08 2021
    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- 7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will
    turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that
    room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I
    bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    Puckdropper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Puckdropper on Wed Sep 8 12:42:45 2021
    On 9/8/2021 3:13 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- 7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that
    room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    Puckdropper



    That is how I found 2 of my knives, by buying replacements 2 times.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Puckdropper on Wed Sep 8 14:52:23 2021
    On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 AM UTC-4, Puckdropper wrote:
    Michael <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- 7b0a20...@googlegroups.com:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)
    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will
    turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that
    room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    Puckdropper

    I had 2 of those grabber picker-upper things. Always kept them hanging
    right next to each other in the garage. Lost both of them. Searched on
    and off for 2 weeks.

    I decided to buy a cheap one on Amazon because I knew the other
    two had to be somewhere in the house/garage. Yes, "buy a new one,
    find an old one" went through my mind. That's why I went cheap. $10

    What I didn't expect was that it would take less than 10 minutes after
    the new one was delivered for one of the old ones to be found. Seriously.
    I was out in the garage, took the package from the delivery guy, and almost immediately found one of the old ones in the bottom of a bin while I was looking for something else.

    Well, now I had 2 again, so I decided to do a test. Pick up the same item
    with each grabber to see which one I liked better. Old faithful picked up that sneaker with no problem. New-Kid-On-The-Block twisted under the weight
    and the jaws never matched up again. What a POS.

    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 8 20:27:09 2021
    On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 08:13:08 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- >7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will >turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that >didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that
    room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I >bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    A friend lost a carpenter's square (how do you lose something that
    large?). He found it when he demo'd the wall he built several years
    before.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 9 22:13:48 2021
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"


    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DaveInSoTex@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Sep 10 08:15:05 2021
    On 9/8/2021 7:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 08:13:08 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- >> 7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will
    turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that >> didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that
    room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I
    bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    A friend lost a carpenter's square (how do you lose something that
    large?). He found it when he demo'd the wall he built several years
    before.

    I'm on my third folding pocket knife of the same make and model.
    Had the original [perhaps] 30 years before losing it 10 or 12 years
    back. Lost no. 2 three or four months ago and immediately went on
    amazon and ordered another of the same make and model.
    A week later I happened upon no. 2 laying in the grass apparently
    having slipped out of the pocket of my shorts while on the zero-turn
    mower. It appeared unscathed even though the regular lawn guys had no
    doubt run over it during their regular weekly mowing. Perhaps more
    surprising one of them didn't spot it and pocket it.

    --
    Dave in SoTex

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to DaveInSoTex on Fri Sep 10 11:57:59 2021
    On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:15:05 -0500, DaveInSoTex <DJMCB@att.net> wrote:

    On 9/8/2021 7:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 08:13:08 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- >>> 7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will >>> turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that >>> didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that >>> room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I >>> bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    A friend lost a carpenter's square (how do you lose something that
    large?). He found it when he demo'd the wall he built several years
    before.

    I'm on my third folding pocket knife of the same make and model.
    Had the original [perhaps] 30 years before losing it 10 or 12 years
    back. Lost no. 2 three or four months ago and immediately went on
    amazon and ordered another of the same make and model.
    A week later I happened upon no. 2 laying in the grass apparently
    having slipped out of the pocket of my shorts while on the zero-turn
    mower. It appeared unscathed even though the regular lawn guys had no
    doubt run over it during their regular weekly mowing. Perhaps more >surprising one of them didn't spot it and pocket it.

    I lost a whole socket set in a plastic case once. Spring came and the
    snow melted and there it was right next to where I had been fixing the snowblower. Turns out it was none the worse for wear except that the
    case was full of water (it was double walled and the water was between
    the walls). Was a Harbor Frieght set--no rust or anything, which was
    kind of surprising.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Fri Sep 10 22:31:20 2021
    On 9/10/2021 11:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:15:05 -0500, DaveInSoTex <DJMCB@att.net> wrote:

    On 9/8/2021 7:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 08:13:08 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039- >>>> 7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will >>>> turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that >>>> didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that >>>> room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I >>>> bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    A friend lost a carpenter's square (how do you lose something that
    large?). He found it when he demo'd the wall he built several years
    before.

    I'm on my third folding pocket knife of the same make and model.
    Had the original [perhaps] 30 years before losing it 10 or 12 years
    back. Lost no. 2 three or four months ago and immediately went on
    amazon and ordered another of the same make and model.
    A week later I happened upon no. 2 laying in the grass apparently
    having slipped out of the pocket of my shorts while on the zero-turn
    mower. It appeared unscathed even though the regular lawn guys had no
    doubt run over it during their regular weekly mowing. Perhaps more
    surprising one of them didn't spot it and pocket it.

    I lost a whole socket set in a plastic case once. Spring came and the
    snow melted and there it was right next to where I had been fixing the snowblower. Turns out it was none the worse for wear except that the
    case was full of water (it was double walled and the water was between
    the walls). Was a Harbor Frieght set--no rust or anything, which was
    kind of surprising.


    When I'm missing tools, I look under the hood of my car! ; )

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Puckdropper@21:1/5 to Bill on Sat Sep 11 08:59:25 2021
    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote in news:ZxU_I.117239$o45.12120@fx46.iad:


    When I'm missing tools, I look under the hood of my car! ; )


    Note to self: If you need to "borrow" Bill's tools, look under his hood.

    If you know what I mean.

    (Sorry, I just read that sentence and thought it needed that!)

    I once found a part of a tool under an airplane hood. It was a bright
    orange cap that had been there for at least 2 weeks. The plane had been preflighted by many different students and flown and it was still there. (Valuable lesson there: Don't trust anyone else's preflight.)

    Puckdropper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Bill on Sat Sep 11 21:49:33 2021
    On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 22:31:20 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

    On 9/10/2021 11:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:15:05 -0500, DaveInSoTex <DJMCB@att.net> wrote:

    On 9/8/2021 7:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 08:13:08 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote in news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-
    7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com:

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    I'm sorry, but the only way to find it is to go buy another one. It will >>>>> turn up as soon as it gets wind of being replaced.

    I found a lost hammer once. For some reason it was in a utility room that
    didn't have anything in it I'd need a hammer for. I had eliminated that >>>>> room as a possible location for it and it wasn't until some time after I >>>>> bought its replacement that I found the first one.

    A friend lost a carpenter's square (how do you lose something that
    large?). He found it when he demo'd the wall he built several years
    before.

    I'm on my third folding pocket knife of the same make and model.
    Had the original [perhaps] 30 years before losing it 10 or 12 years
    back. Lost no. 2 three or four months ago and immediately went on
    amazon and ordered another of the same make and model.
    A week later I happened upon no. 2 laying in the grass apparently
    having slipped out of the pocket of my shorts while on the zero-turn
    mower. It appeared unscathed even though the regular lawn guys had no
    doubt run over it during their regular weekly mowing. Perhaps more
    surprising one of them didn't spot it and pocket it.

    I lost a whole socket set in a plastic case once. Spring came and the
    snow melted and there it was right next to where I had been fixing the
    snowblower. Turns out it was none the worse for wear except that the
    case was full of water (it was double walled and the water was between
    the walls). Was a Harbor Frieght set--no rust or anything, which was
    kind of surprising.


    When I'm missing tools, I look under the hood of my car! ; )

    Not a good idea. There's often very little space between the
    structural parts of the car and the hood. It's happened more than
    once that the impression of a tool is left in the hood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to Michael on Sun Sep 12 18:13:25 2021
    On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 9:42:10 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    FOUND!!!

    Behind a box of framing nails.

    Sorry, no 1/2" socket adaptor back there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to michaeldwilson2@gmail.com on Sun Sep 12 20:25:05 2021
    On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT), Michael
    <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 9:42:10 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    FOUND!!!

    Behind a box of framing nails.

    Sorry, no 1/2" socket adaptor back there.

    It is those damn elves!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Mon Sep 13 03:43:33 2021
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers" chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com. I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Welch@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 05:19:18 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 6:43:35 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.
    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.
    Happened recently with a large pet food etailer. We special ordered a prescription dog food for our senior and ailing pooch. He ended up crossing the rainbow bridge before we opened any of the cans. I contacted Chewy to find out the return protocol. They
    immediately offered to refund our money 100%, but requested that we donate the food to a shelter or SPCA, which we gladly did. I now order our regular dog food from them, even if not quite as cheap as Amazon. They earned me as a customer...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 08:37:37 2021
    On 9/13/2021 5:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized >>> free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >>> pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and >>> put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.

    Well that may be naive thinking.

    Until there is a problem, they do need to see the issue.

    After a while they may say keep it, we know there is a problem but at
    the beginning of an issue they simply do not know.



    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    See above. At some point if there is a real issue they need to examine
    the problem rather than just replace with another defect.


    I have several Cabinet Master clamps. The early ones had an aluminum adjustable head. Those cracked in a relatively short time.
    Jorgensen replaced it for no charge but wanted the broken one back.
    Several months later this happened again. Same procedure.
    About a year later 2 were cracked. The rep asked how many more I had, 8
    is said. They shipped me the 8 new ones and did not want me to return
    the broken or the unbroken ones.

    All of the replacements were steel. No problems in the past 14 or so
    years.



    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    BUT that was not a defect issue, you were simply not happy with your choice.



    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Brian Welch on Mon Sep 13 06:25:58 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 8:19:20 AM UTC-4, Brian Welch wrote:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 6:43:35 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS
    pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.
    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.
    Happened recently with a large pet food etailer. We special ordered a prescription dog
    food for our senior and ailing pooch. He ended up crossing the rainbow bridge before
    we opened any of the cans. I contacted Chewy to find out the return protocol. They
    immediately offered to refund our money 100%, but requested that we donate the
    food to a shelter or SPCA, which we gladly did. I now order our regular dog food from
    them, even if not quite as cheap as Amazon. They earned me as a customer...

    Oh yeah...Chewy was another example for me.

    We bought a rubber mat that goes in front of the litter pan to stop kitty litter spread.
    My cat was elderly/ill at the time and decided the mat was a better place to pee than
    the litter pan. :-(

    I called Chewy and they said I should keep trying it to see if she got used to it. I found
    out that I had a year to return it for a full refund. A *year*!

    Our cat crossed the same bridge as your dog and I stuck the mat in a corner and forgot
    about it. 9 months later, I found it, called Chewy and they issued the refund and said keep
    the mat. I gave it to a neighbor who is very happy with it.

    We buy the vast majority of our pet supplies from Chewy. Their CSR's are great and their
    emails are kind of cute.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Mon Sep 13 07:32:20 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:37:45 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 5:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once >>> again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >>> pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and >>> put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.
    Well that may be naive thinking.

    Until there is a problem, they do need to see the issue.

    My post wasn't about the request to return the item. It was the fact that they offered
    the most expensive return option along with the cheaper ones. Many vendors want their items back before they will issue the refund. Relatively few offer the option to
    have UPS pick it up for free. Typically, it's drop it off at Kohls, the UPS store or an
    Amazon locker.

    Paying UPS to *pick up* a $10 item certainly seems to make no economic sense. It's a cheap, plastic grabber. Do their engineers want it back so badly that they don't
    want to risk the customer saying "Hey, it's only $10. I'm not driving to a drop off
    location. I'll just toss it."?


    After a while they may say keep it, we know there is a problem but at
    the beginning of an issue they simply do not know.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.
    See above. At some point if there is a real issue they need to examine
    the problem rather than just replace with another defect.

    See above. They offered 2 cheaper ways to get to it back. Why add the most expensive option also - on a $10 item?



    I have several Cabinet Master clamps. The early ones had an aluminum adjustable head. Those cracked in a relatively short time.
    Jorgensen replaced it for no charge but wanted the broken one back.
    Several months later this happened again. Same procedure.
    About a year later 2 were cracked. The rep asked how many more I had, 8
    is said. They shipped me the 8 new ones and did not want me to return
    the broken or the unbroken ones.

    All of the replacements were steel. No problems in the past 14 or so
    years.

    Apples and oranges. I'm going to guess that those clamps cost more than $10. I'm also going to guess that the vendor has more of a reputation to protect than
    someone selling $10 POS grabbers on Amazon.

    You're talking about a specialty tool that required some serious engineering and
    has a relatively small targeted audience. Get it wrong and the company could be out of business.

    In addition, this item is sold by multiple vendors. *Maybe* I bought it from someone
    who cares about the engineering and wants to correct the problem or stop selling the
    item. It's *possible* but I still don't see that being worth using the most expensive
    option to get the item back when there are cheaper options available - and offered.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    BUT that was not a defect issue, you were simply not happy with your choice.

    Actually it was. The reason I did not like the look - and I said this to the Target rep when I
    called - was that the finished was mottled, there was the occasional protrusion in the
    ceramic (like an inverted chip, if you know what I mean), etc. They were perfectly serviceable,
    I just didn't think I should pay $30 for bowls with imperfections.

    More importantly, it addresses Ed's "they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber"
    comment. Using his logic, people could call Target and say the bowls were chipped or
    scratched if they know they can get a refund and won't have to return them. In my case,
    I had an actual defective item and they didn't feel a need to "inspect them".

    It was merely another example of where the vendor did not want their item back, even at
    the risk of the customer being dishonest. As I said, they've run the numbers and the risk
    apparently isn't big enough.


    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pyotr filipivich@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 08:45:23 2021
    Michael <michaeldwilson2@gmail.com> on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 19:42:07 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Easy. I even managed to lose two pens and never got up from my
    desk.

    (I found them both when I went to put the third one down - on the radio, where I'd put the previous two.)
    --
    pyotr filipivich
    This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
    Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
    Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 11:22:59 2021
    On 9/13/2021 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:37:45 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 5:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>>> On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once >>>>> again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >>>>> pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and >>>>> put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.
    Well that may be naive thinking.

    Until there is a problem, they do need to see the issue.

    My post wasn't about the request to return the item. It was the fact that they offered
    the most expensive return option along with the cheaper ones. Many vendors want
    their items back before they will issue the refund. Relatively few offer the option to
    have UPS pick it up for free. Typically, it's drop it off at Kohls, the UPS store or an
    Amazon locker.

    I missed that part and yes that would be different.


    Paying UPS to *pick up* a $10 item certainly seems to make no economic sense. It's a cheap, plastic grabber. Do their engineers want it back so badly that they don't
    want to risk the customer saying "Hey, it's only $10. I'm not driving to a drop off
    location. I'll just toss it."?

    I do, but that is only 3 miles away.



    After a while they may say keep it, we know there is a problem but at
    the beginning of an issue they simply do not know.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.
    See above. At some point if there is a real issue they need to examine
    the problem rather than just replace with another defect.

    See above. They offered 2 cheaper ways to get to it back. Why add the most expensive option also - on a $10 item?



    I have several Cabinet Master clamps. The early ones had an aluminum
    adjustable head. Those cracked in a relatively short time.
    Jorgensen replaced it for no charge but wanted the broken one back.
    Several months later this happened again. Same procedure.
    About a year later 2 were cracked. The rep asked how many more I had, 8
    is said. They shipped me the 8 new ones and did not want me to return
    the broken or the unbroken ones.

    All of the replacements were steel. No problems in the past 14 or so
    years.

    Apples and oranges. I'm going to guess that those clamps cost more than $10. I'm also going to guess that the vendor has more of a reputation to protect than
    someone selling $10 POS grabbers on Amazon.

    Well not by much, I paid $17 each and the reason that I bought 2 and
    then a short time later 8 all at the same time.




    You're talking about a specialty tool that required some serious engineering and
    has a relatively small targeted audience. Get it wrong and the company could be
    out of business.

    No, Bessey did the engineering, Jorgensen perfected it after switching
    to steel.
    FWIW I went to a small WW show yesterday in Houston. I enjoyed the show. Apparently Bessey has again updated their KBody clamps. I could
    personally see no difference. They said the bar was heavier.

    They asked if I have Bessy Kbody clamps and if so how did I like them.

    Well, they did ask... ;~)

    I told them that I have 10 Cabinet Masters, 6 Jet K body style, and 7
    Bessy Revo's.

    They jumped in and asked asked how I liked the Besseys.

    Well, again, they asked.

    I answered, I reach for the older Cabinet Master's first, Jet's second,
    and Bessey's as a last choice.
    I hang my clamps on a clamp rack and all are beside each other with none blocking the access to another. So each clamp has an equal opportunity
    of being grabbed. No clamp is easier to remove from the rack than the
    other. All are very very easy to remove and replace.

    Why in that order, they ask.

    They kept asking!!!!

    The Besseys are crotchety, you have to futz with the handle more than I
    want to to get the it to slide open.
    The leveling foot on the end of the bar is still stationary, it is
    movable to most any spot on the bar on the Cabinet Master or the Jet.
    The screw travel is way too short, I have at least double adjustment
    length on the clamp screw of the Cabinet Master over the Bessey. Most
    often I run out of screw travel trying to tighten the clamp before any
    pressure is applied. Then I have to unscrew completely work with the
    crotchety slide again to snug up to the work and try tightening again.
    This almost always happens with the Bessey's.

    Last I said that we all drop things, including clamps. I have dropped
    most all of my clamps multiple times. The only ones that chip and have
    broken plastic parts are the Bessey's.
    Well we have a life time warranty, they say.
    So does every one else, I say.

    And finally the Show special. A box of 4 Bessey KBody's for only $330.
    The boxes were about 4' long so none were long enough to be that
    expensive.

    Maybe it is just me but when I am doing a complicated glue up of a
    cabinet the last thing I want to be doing is fiddling with a clamp to
    get it open and adjusted to the right spot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Mon Sep 13 12:41:19 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 12:23:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:37:45 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 5:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>>> On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once >>>>> again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS
    pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all >>>> the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.
    Well that may be naive thinking.

    Until there is a problem, they do need to see the issue.

    My post wasn't about the request to return the item. It was the fact that they offered
    the most expensive return option along with the cheaper ones. Many vendors want
    their items back before they will issue the refund. Relatively few offer the option to
    have UPS pick it up for free. Typically, it's drop it off at Kohls, the UPS store or an
    Amazon locker.
    I missed that part and yes that would be different.

    Paying UPS to *pick up* a $10 item certainly seems to make no economic sense.
    It's a cheap, plastic grabber. Do their engineers want it back so badly that they don't
    want to risk the customer saying "Hey, it's only $10. I'm not driving to a drop off
    location. I'll just toss it."?
    I do, but that is only 3 miles away.


    After a while they may say keep it, we know there is a problem but at
    the beginning of an issue they simply do not know.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.
    See above. At some point if there is a real issue they need to examine
    the problem rather than just replace with another defect.

    See above. They offered 2 cheaper ways to get to it back. Why add the most expensive option also - on a $10 item?



    I have several Cabinet Master clamps. The early ones had an aluminum
    adjustable head. Those cracked in a relatively short time.
    Jorgensen replaced it for no charge but wanted the broken one back.
    Several months later this happened again. Same procedure.
    About a year later 2 were cracked. The rep asked how many more I had, 8
    is said. They shipped me the 8 new ones and did not want me to return
    the broken or the unbroken ones.

    All of the replacements were steel. No problems in the past 14 or so
    years.

    Apples and oranges. I'm going to guess that those clamps cost more than $10.
    I'm also going to guess that the vendor has more of a reputation to protect than
    someone selling $10 POS grabbers on Amazon.
    Well not by much, I paid $17 each and the reason that I bought 2 and
    then a short time later 8 all at the same time.

    You're talking about a specialty tool that required some serious engineering and
    has a relatively small targeted audience. Get it wrong and the company could be
    out of business.
    No, Bessey did the engineering, Jorgensen perfected it after switching
    to steel.
    FWIW I went to a small WW show yesterday in Houston. I enjoyed the show. Apparently Bessey has again updated their KBody clamps. I could
    personally see no difference. They said the bar was heavier.

    They asked if I have Bessy Kbody clamps and if so how did I like them.

    Well, they did ask... ;~)

    I told them that I have 10 Cabinet Masters, 6 Jet K body style, and 7
    Bessy Revo's.

    They jumped in and asked asked how I liked the Besseys.

    Well, again, they asked.

    I answered, I reach for the older Cabinet Master's first, Jet's second,
    and Bessey's as a last choice.
    I hang my clamps on a clamp rack and all are beside each other with none blocking the access to another. So each clamp has an equal opportunity
    of being grabbed. No clamp is easier to remove from the rack than the
    other. All are very very easy to remove and replace.

    Why in that order, they ask.

    They kept asking!!!!

    The Besseys are crotchety, you have to futz with the handle more than I
    want to to get the it to slide open.
    The leveling foot on the end of the bar is still stationary, it is
    movable to most any spot on the bar on the Cabinet Master or the Jet.
    The screw travel is way too short, I have at least double adjustment
    length on the clamp screw of the Cabinet Master over the Bessey. Most
    often I run out of screw travel trying to tighten the clamp before any pressure is applied. Then I have to unscrew completely work with the crotchety slide again to snug up to the work and try tightening again.
    This almost always happens with the Bessey's.

    Last I said that we all drop things, including clamps. I have dropped
    most all of my clamps multiple times. The only ones that chip and have
    broken plastic parts are the Bessey's.
    Well we have a life time warranty, they say.
    So does every one else, I say.

    And finally the Show special. A box of 4 Bessey KBody's for only $330.
    The boxes were about 4' long so none were long enough to be that
    expensive.

    Maybe it is just me but when I am doing a complicated glue up of a
    cabinet the last thing I want to be doing is fiddling with a clamp to
    get it open and adjusted to the right spot.

    I have two 55" Bessy's and four 24". Everything you have said above is
    exactly how I feel, except that I haven't dropped them enough to chip them. ;-)

    Shortly after I bought the first one's (the 55's) I noticed how hard it was to move the handles. I had considering asking about that in this group
    when someone (you!) mentioned it in a thread related to clamps. That's
    when I knew it wasn't me or my pair of clamps, so I didn't have to ask.

    I'm curious, what did they say when you were done rattling off your
    litany of grievances?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to pyotr filipivich on Mon Sep 13 12:26:16 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Michael <michael...@gmail.com> on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 19:42:07 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)
    Easy. I even managed to lose two pens and never got up from my
    desk.


    On a similar subject, of all the pens you have purchased or obtained
    over lo these many years, how many were direct replacements because
    your current pens actually ran out of ink?

    I've purchased/obtained probably thousands of pens but it never seems
    that very many run out of ink before they simply disappear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Mon Sep 13 21:32:08 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 03:43:33 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized >> > free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >> > pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and >> > put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let >customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the >risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers" >chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com. >I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.

    Of course I don't know about this specific case but retailer often
    keep records of who returns what. Too many returns and they
    scrutinize them more. If it's rare that you return anything, they'll
    take just about anything. Some retailers have been reported to refuse
    refunds to those on Santa's naughty list.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 21:40:52 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:37:45 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 5:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >>>>> On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once >>>>>> again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >>>>>> pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all >>>>> the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.

    That's old school thinking.
    Well that may be naive thinking.

    Until there is a problem, they do need to see the issue.

    My post wasn't about the request to return the item. It was the fact that they offered
    the most expensive return option along with the cheaper ones. Many vendors want
    their items back before they will issue the refund. Relatively few offer the option to
    have UPS pick it up for free. Typically, it's drop it off at Kohls, the UPS store or an
    Amazon locker.

    I missed that part and yes that would be different.


    Paying UPS to *pick up* a $10 item certainly seems to make no economic sense.
    It's a cheap, plastic grabber. Do their engineers want it back so badly that they don't
    want to risk the customer saying "Hey, it's only $10. I'm not driving to a drop off
    location. I'll just toss it."?

    I do, but that is only 3 miles away.



    After a while they may say keep it, we know there is a problem but at
    the beginning of an issue they simply do not know.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.
    See above. At some point if there is a real issue they need to examine
    the problem rather than just replace with another defect.

    See above. They offered 2 cheaper ways to get to it back. Why add the most >> expensive option also - on a $10 item?



    I have several Cabinet Master clamps. The early ones had an aluminum
    adjustable head. Those cracked in a relatively short time.
    Jorgensen replaced it for no charge but wanted the broken one back.
    Several months later this happened again. Same procedure.
    About a year later 2 were cracked. The rep asked how many more I had, 8
    is said. They shipped me the 8 new ones and did not want me to return
    the broken or the unbroken ones.

    All of the replacements were steel. No problems in the past 14 or so
    years.

    Apples and oranges. I'm going to guess that those clamps cost more than $10. >> I'm also going to guess that the vendor has more of a reputation to protect than
    someone selling $10 POS grabbers on Amazon.

    Well not by much, I paid $17 each and the reason that I bought 2 and
    then a short time later 8 all at the same time.




    You're talking about a specialty tool that required some serious engineering and
    has a relatively small targeted audience. Get it wrong and the company could be
    out of business.

    No, Bessey did the engineering, Jorgensen perfected it after switching
    to steel.
    FWIW I went to a small WW show yesterday in Houston. I enjoyed the show. >Apparently Bessey has again updated their KBody clamps. I could
    personally see no difference. They said the bar was heavier.

    They asked if I have Bessy Kbody clamps and if so how did I like them.

    Well, they did ask... ;~)

    I told them that I have 10 Cabinet Masters, 6 Jet K body style, and 7
    Bessy Revo's.

    They jumped in and asked asked how I liked the Besseys.

    Well, again, they asked.

    I answered, I reach for the older Cabinet Master's first, Jet's second,
    and Bessey's as a last choice.
    I hang my clamps on a clamp rack and all are beside each other with none >blocking the access to another. So each clamp has an equal opportunity
    of being grabbed. No clamp is easier to remove from the rack than the
    other. All are very very easy to remove and replace.

    Why in that order, they ask.

    They kept asking!!!!

    The Besseys are crotchety, you have to futz with the handle more than I
    want to to get the it to slide open.
    The leveling foot on the end of the bar is still stationary, it is
    movable to most any spot on the bar on the Cabinet Master or the Jet.
    The screw travel is way too short, I have at least double adjustment
    length on the clamp screw of the Cabinet Master over the Bessey. Most
    often I run out of screw travel trying to tighten the clamp before any >pressure is applied. Then I have to unscrew completely work with the >crotchety slide again to snug up to the work and try tightening again.
    This almost always happens with the Bessey's.

    Last I said that we all drop things, including clamps. I have dropped
    most all of my clamps multiple times. The only ones that chip and have >broken plastic parts are the Bessey's.
    Well we have a life time warranty, they say.
    So does every one else, I say.

    And finally the Show special. A box of 4 Bessey KBody's for only $330.
    The boxes were about 4' long so none were long enough to be that
    expensive.

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).


    Maybe it is just me but when I am doing a complicated glue up of a
    cabinet the last thing I want to be doing is fiddling with a clamp to
    get it open and adjusted to the right spot.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to bnwelch@gmail.com on Mon Sep 13 21:35:34 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 05:19:18 -0700 (PDT), Brian Welch
    <bnwelch@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 6:43:35 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once >> > > again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS >> > > pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.
    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.
    Happened recently with a large pet food etailer. We special ordered a prescription dog food for our senior and ailing pooch. He ended up crossing the rainbow bridge before we opened any of the cans. I contacted Chewy to find out the return protocol.
    They immediately offered to refund our money 100%, but requested that we donate the food to a shelter or SPCA, which we gladly did. I now order our regular dog food from them, even if not quite as cheap as Amazon. They earned me as a customer...

    Chewy is very good. The only problem I've had with them is the level
    of "spam" (in quotes because I deal with them so it's not really
    spam). They rival Rockler in the quantity of e-adverts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Mon Sep 13 19:22:10 2021
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:35:39 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 05:19:18 -0700 (PDT), Brian Welch
    <bnw...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 6:43:35 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> > On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS
    pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.
    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.
    Happened recently with a large pet food etailer. We special ordered a prescription dog food for our senior and ailing pooch. He ended up crossing the rainbow bridge before we opened any of the cans. I contacted Chewy to find out the return protocol.
    They immediately offered to refund our money 100%, but requested that we donate the food to a shelter or SPCA, which we gladly did. I now order our regular dog food from them, even if not quite as cheap as Amazon. They earned me as a customer...
    Chewy is very good. The only problem I've had with them is the level
    of "spam" (in quotes because I deal with them so it's not really
    spam). They rival Rockler in the quantity of e-adverts.

    That's why I have an email address that's only used for vendors and other such spam-ish generators. e.g. I use it for Chewy but only check for emails from them
    when I've ordered something.

    Everything else is ignored.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 14 17:09:58 2021
    "Michael" wrote in message news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a hammer,
    tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the walls or block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Tue Sep 14 17:09:00 2021
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).




    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to John Grossbohlin on Tue Sep 14 17:10:29 2021
    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael"  wrote in message news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a hammer,
    tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the walls or
    block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)



    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Tue Sep 14 18:46:20 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 19:22:10 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:35:39 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 05:19:18 -0700 (PDT), Brian Welch
    <bnw...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 6:43:35 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 10:13:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> >> > On 9/8/2021 5:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


    Later, as I was clicking the "Return" buttons on Amazon, fully expecting them
    to refund my $10 and say keep the broken grabber, I got surprised once
    again. Not only did they want the broken grabber back, but they authorized
    free pick-up by UPS. For a broken $10 piece of crap. WTF!

    I wanted to contact the vendor and say "Hey - why are you paying for UPS
    pick-up on a $10 item that you can't even sell again? Save your money and
    put it towards building a better product!"

    Why? Because it is cheaper than the alternative. If they do that all
    the time they will suddenly get 50 calls about a broken grabber.
    That's old school thinking.

    Big retailers have the numbers and know that in many cases it's cheaper to let
    customers keep inexpensive items than require the item back. They've done the
    risk benefit benefit analysis and are willing to take the "50 broken grabbers"
    chance.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-walmart-returns-refund/

    I've had Amazon, Target and other retailers refund my money and not require the
    item back. One example: I've bought a $30 set of cereal bowls from target.com.
    I wanted to return them because I didn't the look once I saw them in person. When
    I called to get the authorization to return them, they refunded my money and said
    keep the bowls. It's getting more and more common.

    Even if this particular vendor wanted the item back to prevent a rush of false "broken"
    claims, they could have stopped at the first 2 return options on their list: Drop off at
    Kohls or drop off at UPS. Those are Amazon's most common options, although "drop
    off at an Amazon locker" is often an option. IOW, if the customer wants his money back,
    he'll have to do a little work. However, for the vendor to pay for UPS to pick up a $10
    item at the residence doesn't seem to make economic sense, especially when cheaper
    ways to get the item back are readily available.
    Happened recently with a large pet food etailer. We special ordered a prescription dog food for our senior and ailing pooch. He ended up crossing the rainbow bridge before we opened any of the cans. I contacted Chewy to find out the return protocol.
    They immediately offered to refund our money 100%, but requested that we donate the food to a shelter or SPCA, which we gladly did. I now order our regular dog food from them, even if not quite as cheap as Amazon. They earned me as a customer...
    Chewy is very good. The only problem I've had with them is the level
    of "spam" (in quotes because I deal with them so it's not really
    spam). They rival Rockler in the quantity of e-adverts.

    That's why I have an email address that's only used for vendors and other such >spam-ish generators. e.g. I use it for Chewy but only check for emails from them
    when I've ordered something.

    Everything else is ignored.

    I do too, more or less, but there are things in there I want to read.
    It's impossible to tell who sells what to whom, so all retailers get
    that address. Some I like to read but they're not going to get my
    "personal" address. BTW, all my gmail stuff falls in there too (also
    only used for businesses).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 14 18:48:22 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).




    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    If you price it, they will come. A $75 clamp is obviously better than
    a $35 clamp. Just ask Seagrams.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 14 18:50:25 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:10:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael" wrote in message
    news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a hammer,
    tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the walls or
    block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)



    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    Did you knock a hole in a bank's wall? Tunnel under the street?
    "Honestly! I just found them!".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Wed Sep 15 06:30:49 2021
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pyotr filipivich@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 08:15:39 2021
    DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> on Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:16 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Michael <michael...@gmail.com> on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 19:42:07 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)
    Easy. I even managed to lose two pens and never got up from my
    desk.

    On a similar subject, of all the pens you have purchased or obtained
    over lo these many years, how many were direct replacements because
    your current pens actually ran out of ink?

    I've been using fountain pens since the 7th grade. Eye droppers or syringes for refilling the cartridges.
    So when I lose a pen, it is gone. Although, on occasion a lost
    pen has been found when I move furniture. I suspect it will get worse
    again now that we have cats.

    I've purchased/obtained probably thousands of pens but it never seems
    that very many run out of ink before they simply disappear.

    I'm moving, "Oh look, a collection of markers, dry erase, ball
    points, etc. Do they work? If not, "Toss."
    --
    pyotr filipivich
    This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
    Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
    Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill@21:1/5 to pyotr filipivich on Wed Sep 15 12:24:29 2021
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I suspect there is an element of "the clampy bit" costs $X and the "bar" cost N a foot + plus a cutting fee. Don't forget to factor in
    the "shipping and handling" - longer clamps take more space to make,
    ship, store, etc, - you get to pay for that too.
    Sort of like U-haul - 30 bucks a day plus 1.40 per mile.
    Add in the demand for a particular length and longer clamps become "specialty" items.


    A clamp you buy at Rockler is already a "specialty item".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Bill on Wed Sep 15 16:40:41 2021
    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> writes:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?


    Anyone who's priced galvanized iron pipe fittings recently is familiar
    with the fact that the price of steel increased by 50% this year. It's
    down a bit, but still significantly higher than it was in 2019/2020.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/steel#stats

    Click on stats tab.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 13:43:43 2021
    On 9/15/2021 8:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."



    In a nutshell, it's what the market will bare.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Wed Sep 15 13:41:56 2021
    On 9/14/2021 5:48 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).




    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    If you price it, they will come. A $75 clamp is obviously better than
    a $35 clamp. Just ask Seagrams.



    Exactly! LOL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Wed Sep 15 14:07:51 2021
    On 9/15/2021 11:40 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> writes:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?


    Anyone who's priced galvanized iron pipe fittings recently is familiar
    with the fact that the price of steel increased by 50% this year. It's
    down a bit, but still significantly higher than it was in 2019/2020.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/steel#stats

    Click on stats tab.


    I am on the board of directors for our local MUD. We have been planning
    on building a new waste water facility and water treatment for many
    years now.

    Our engineers and our attorneys advised us to be ready to spend up to
    $XM for the WWP. Steel prices were way up in early 2019.
    Fortunately the bid came in $4M less and is 99% complete.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Wed Sep 15 12:11:45 2021
    On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 2:43:50 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/15/2021 8:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."

    In a nutshell, it's what the market will bare.

    See...you do understand it! ;-)

    What I don't understand is why one green tool cost so much
    more than another. For example,

    This...

    https://www.festoolusa.com/products/drilling-and-screwdriving/cordless-drills/576439---c-18-basic-us

    vs this...

    https://www.amazon.com/Cordless-GALAX-PRO-Position-0-600RPM/dp/B07R1WMCCS

    I mean, green is green, right? ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 17:01:51 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:43:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 8:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."



    In a nutshell, it's what the market will bare.
    I think you mean BEAR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Wed Sep 15 17:01:07 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."
    When I need big-assed clamps I use pipe clamps - I can make them any
    length I need them. They aren't as fancy as Bessy clamps but they do
    the job

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 17:04:38 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:40:41 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> writes:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?


    Anyone who's priced galvanized iron pipe fittings recently is familiar
    with the fact that the price of steel increased by 50% this year. It's
    down a bit, but still significantly higher than it was in 2019/2020.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/steel#stats

    Click on stats tab.
    I needed a cpoule 1/4 inch NPT nipples a few months ago - black pipe
    would have been fine - but stainless was less than half the price, if
    you can imagine!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to phamp@mindspring.com on Wed Sep 15 17:08:45 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:15:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
    <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

    DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> on Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:16 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote: >>> Michael <michael...@gmail.com> on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 19:42:07 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)
    Easy. I even managed to lose two pens and never got up from my
    desk.

    On a similar subject, of all the pens you have purchased or obtained
    over lo these many years, how many were direct replacements because
    your current pens actually ran out of ink?

    I've been using fountain pens since the 7th grade. Eye droppers or
    syringes for refilling the cartridges.
    So when I lose a pen, it is gone. Although, on occasion a lost
    pen has been found when I move furniture. I suspect it will get worse
    again now that we have cats.

    I've purchased/obtained probably thousands of pens but it never seems
    that very many run out of ink before they simply disappear.

    I'm moving, "Oh look, a collection of markers, dry erase, ball
    points, etc. Do they work? If not, "Toss."
    My ball points usually "dry out" before they "run out". The balls
    just stop turning. Sometimes soaking the tip in OPA dixes them for a
    while - or heating the tip of brass ones (you DO remember those,
    right?) with a match or lighter.

    It HAS been years though since I had one spring a leak in my shirt
    pocket - or since I wore a "pocket protector" (Yes, I was a "nerd")

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 20:37:04 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:01:51 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:43:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 8:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."



    In a nutshell, it's what the market will bare.
    I think you mean BEAR

    About 20 years ago, a barmaid was telling us that that weekend she was
    going, with her boyfriend, hunting bear. I said that I wanted to see
    that. She got huffy and got her feminist dander up. "What, don't you
    think I can hunt bear?" I replied, that I just wanted to see her
    hunting bare. She got pissed. About ten minutes later, after
    everyone had fallen off their barstools a few times, I told her that
    there was more than one way to spell "bare/bear". She wasn't amused,
    at least for a few seconds until she realized that she'd been had.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Wed Sep 15 20:28:26 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    I'd argue that few of these "non-serious" woodworkers have parallel
    jaw clamps or even know what they're used for, if they know what they
    are.

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."

    The couplings work well too but they're priced accordingly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 20:39:48 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:01:07 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."
    When I need big-assed clamps I use pipe clamps - I can make them any
    length I need them. They aren't as fancy as Bessy clamps but they do
    the job

    I don't like pipe clamps at all. Pipe isn't nearly rigid enough and
    bows, making the jaws angle outward.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 15 20:46:54 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:08:45 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:15:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
    <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

    DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> on Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:16 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 11:45:28 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote: >>>> Michael <michael...@gmail.com> on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 19:42:07 -0700
    (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)
    Easy. I even managed to lose two pens and never got up from my
    desk.

    On a similar subject, of all the pens you have purchased or obtained
    over lo these many years, how many were direct replacements because
    your current pens actually ran out of ink?

    I've been using fountain pens since the 7th grade. Eye droppers or >>syringes for refilling the cartridges.
    So when I lose a pen, it is gone. Although, on occasion a lost
    pen has been found when I move furniture. I suspect it will get worse >>again now that we have cats.

    I've purchased/obtained probably thousands of pens but it never seems >>>that very many run out of ink before they simply disappear.

    I'm moving, "Oh look, a collection of markers, dry erase, ball >>points, etc. Do they work? If not, "Toss."
    My ball points usually "dry out" before they "run out". The balls
    just stop turning. Sometimes soaking the tip in OPA dixes them for a
    while - or heating the tip of brass ones (you DO remember those,
    right?) with a match or lighter.

    It HAS been years though since I had one spring a leak in my shirt
    pocket - or since I wore a "pocket protector" (Yes, I was a "nerd")

    When I was in college, a slipstick hanging from the belt labeled you
    as a nerd (though perhaps a nerd with money making potential). Then
    when calculators came out, wearing one on the hip labeled you as a
    rich-kid nerd. My wife and I were working putting me through school so
    I certainly wasn't a rich-kid but let them think that. Now, if you
    aren't carrying a cell phone you're something less than human.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Sep 16 11:23:39 2021
    "Leon" wrote in message
    news:Wr2dnZiU1s9IgNz8nZ2dnUU7-XGdnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael" wrote in message
    news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a hammer,
    tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the walls or
    block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)

    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    I didn't find that in a house though... found it laying on the side of the
    road while riding my bicycle from FL to NY. $450... helped finance the
    trip!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 11:17:30 2021
    "DerbyDad03" wrote in message news:b4263585-53e0-4460-b003-baba59e57991n@googlegroups.com...

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    I've got a couple 55" clamps too... bought them on clearance for about half
    the regular price as I recall. Sometimes they still aren't long enough
    though! As such I've still got pipe clamps with couplings for those really
    long jobs!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Clare Snyder on Thu Sep 16 12:12:13 2021
    On 9/15/2021 4:01 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."
    When I need big-assed clamps I use pipe clamps - I can make them any length I need them. They aren't as fancy as Bessy clamps but they do
    the job



    FWIW there is nothing Fancy about a clamp that IMHO is 3rd rate. No shame!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to John Grossbohlin on Thu Sep 16 12:14:59 2021
    On 9/16/2021 10:23 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Leon"  wrote in message news:Wr2dnZiU1s9IgNz8nZ2dnUU7-XGdnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael"  wrote in message
    news:8922c356-552a-45d9-8039-7b0a2014e3c9n@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a
    hammer, tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the
    walls or block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)

    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found.  ;~)

    I didn't find that in a house though... found it laying on the side of
    the road while riding my bicycle from FL to NY.  $450... helped finance
    the trip!



    Wow! the most I have found laying on the ground is $5.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Clare Snyder on Thu Sep 16 12:11:02 2021
    On 9/15/2021 4:01 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:43:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 8:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:09:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip

    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?

    I think you really do understand it.

    It's less about the price of the material and more about the fact
    that you are entering into "specialty tool" category. I'd wager that
    the number of people who own 48" clamps is a small subset of
    those that own clamps in general.

    Even the casual woodworker has a bunch of small clamps, with
    24" (maybe 36") being the largest they own. I went for many years
    never needing anything longer than 36". Now I have two 55" Bessy's
    but they don't get used very often. (I do have a project coming up
    where I'll need them.)

    "Oh, you're a serious woodworker? You build big stuff? Maybe even
    make money on what you build? OK, if you want 48" clamps, it's
    going to cost you."



    In a nutshell, it's what the market will bare.
    I think you mean BEAR



    Really, What the market will "animal" not bare, expose?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eli the Bearded@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Sep 16 18:53:58 2021
    In rec.woodworking, <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
    Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
    I think you mean BEAR

    About 20 years ago, a barmaid was telling us that that weekend she was
    going, with her boyfriend, hunting bear. I said that I wanted to see
    that. She got huffy and got her feminist dander up. "What, don't you
    think I can hunt bear?" I replied, that I just wanted to see her
    hunting bare. She got pissed. About ten minutes later, after
    everyone had fallen off their barstools a few times, I told her that
    there was more than one way to spell "bare/bear". She wasn't amused,
    at least for a few seconds until she realized that she'd been had.

    Quoth the bear: You're not here for the hunting, are you?

    Elijah
    ------
    wait, that's a different bear hunt joke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Sep 16 12:14:45 2021
    On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:15:07 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/16/2021 10:23 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Leon" wrote in message
    news:Wr2dnZiU1s9IgNz8...@giganews.com...

    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael" wrote in message
    news:8922c356-552a-45d9...@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a
    hammer, tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the
    walls or block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)

    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    I didn't find that in a house though... found it laying on the side of
    the road while riding my bicycle from FL to NY. $450... helped finance
    the trip!

    Wow! the most I have found laying on the ground is $5.

    My best was a $100 bill lying on the grass at a flea market. Hundreds
    of people walking around. I just looked down and there it was, right in
    the middle of a main walkway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Sep 16 20:26:55 2021
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:14:45 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:15:07 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
    On 9/16/2021 10:23 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Leon" wrote in message
    news:Wr2dnZiU1s9IgNz8...@giganews.com...

    On 9/14/2021 4:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Michael" wrote in message
    news:8922c356-552a-45d9...@googlegroups.com...

    Has anyone seen my Dremel?

    (How is it possible to lose a tool?)

    Well... I've done renovations on several houses and have found a
    hammer, tape measure, screw driver, chisel, and utility knife in the
    walls or block foundations... you could try looking there. ;~)

    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    I didn't find that in a house though... found it laying on the side of
    the road while riding my bicycle from FL to NY. $450... helped finance
    the trip!

    Wow! the most I have found laying on the ground is $5.

    I've found a couple of $20s (at different times).

    My best was a $100 bill lying on the grass at a flea market. Hundreds
    of people walking around. I just looked down and there it was, right in
    the middle of a main walkway.

    I always try to find its owner. If they can tell me the serial
    number, it's theirs. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Sep 17 11:35:46 2021
    "Leon" wrote in message
    news:WdadnQALBIIO5t78nZ2dnUU7-bmdnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 9/16/2021 10:23 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
    "Leon" wrote in message

    You failed to mention that stack of 100's you found. ;~)

    I didn't find that in a house though... found it laying on the side of
    the road while riding my bicycle from FL to NY. $450... helped finance
    the trip!

    Wow! the most I have found laying on the ground is $5.

    Amusingly enough I turned that cash into travelers checks at a AAA office in case I lost them. ;~)

    On an Erie Canalway trip with my sons the oldest found a $20 on the trail.
    When my youngest and I rode from FL to NY we found at least $40 between
    us... I found a $20 the second day out. You see things from the seat of a bicycle you'd never see from a car!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Grossbohlin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 11:37:38 2021
    wrote in message news:t3o7kgtv63epl74h0ont9gvfo07cvvs1pk@4ax.com...

    I always try to find its owner. If they can tell me the serial
    number, it's theirs. ;-)

    Good for you!

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Puckdropper@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Sep 18 03:53:13 2021
    krw@notreal.com wrote in
    news:t3o7kgtv63epl74h0ont9gvfo07cvvs1pk@4ax.com:


    I always try to find its owner. If they can tell me the serial
    number, it's theirs. ;-)

    I'm a very clumsy rich man, you see. I've lost hundreds of thousands of
    $100 bills. Let me send you a list of serial numbers to see if it might be
    one of them. :)

    Puckdropper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pyotr filipivich@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 18 07:51:46 2021
    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 12:24:29 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is
    24 more inches of steel $35?

    I suspect there is an element of "the clampy bit" costs $X and the
    "bar" cost N a foot + plus a cutting fee. Don't forget to factor in
    the "shipping and handling" - longer clamps take more space to make,
    ship, store, etc, - you get to pay for that too.
    Sort of like U-haul - 30 bucks a day plus 1.40 per mile.
    Add in the demand for a particular length and longer clamps become
    "specialty" items.


    A clamp you buy at Rockler is already a "specialty item".

    This is true. I suspect there is still a "Clamp body" + bar (inch)
    + cutting charge, + S&H, plus the "Name Brand Premium".
    It is like many things, you can get one for X dollars, but add-on
    "RV", "Aircraft", "Marine", Medical, etc, and the price goes way up.
    --
    pyotr filipivich
    This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
    Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
    Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to phamp@mindspring.com on Sat Sep 18 11:20:33 2021
    On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 07:51:46 -0700, pyotr filipivich
    <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 12:24:29 -0400 typed in >rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I
    bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?

    I suspect there is an element of "the clampy bit" costs $X and the
    "bar" cost N a foot + plus a cutting fee. Don't forget to factor in
    the "shipping and handling" - longer clamps take more space to make,
    ship, store, etc, - you get to pay for that too.
    Sort of like U-haul - 30 bucks a day plus 1.40 per mile.
    Add in the demand for a particular length and longer clamps become
    "specialty" items.


    A clamp you buy at Rockler is already a "specialty item".

    This is true. I suspect there is still a "Clamp body" + bar (inch)
    + cutting charge, + S&H, plus the "Name Brand Premium".
    It is like many things, you can get one for X dollars, but add-on
    "RV", "Aircraft", "Marine", Medical, etc, and the price goes way up.

    Be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Bessey's current line
    includes a "K Body" and a "K Body Junior" which look very similar, but
    the Junior are cheaper and rated for about half the clamping force.

    At Home Despot a 24" K is 50.37 and a 50" is 62.97. The difference
    isn't unreasonable. There's a 24" "Junior" that's 37.99 and a 50"
    Junior at 47.99.

    Lowes really needs to replace their Web developer. Searched for
    "clamps" and their site told me that there was no such thing, did I
    want to search for "clasps". Then I reloaded the page and this time
    it found "clamps".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 18 12:25:58 2021
    On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 03:53:13 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    krw@notreal.com wrote in
    news:t3o7kgtv63epl74h0ont9gvfo07cvvs1pk@4ax.com:


    I always try to find its owner. If they can tell me the serial
    number, it's theirs. ;-)

    I'm a very clumsy rich man, you see. I've lost hundreds of thousands of
    $100 bills. Let me send you a list of serial numbers to see if it might be >one of them. :)

    Somehow I think even with a hundred thousand numbers, you still
    wouldn't have much of a chance of a match. Ten digits (?-no bills
    handy) plus a letter (one of 12 fed banks?) That's a chance of
    1E5/1.2E11 or ~a million to one against finding a match. But the
    problem becomes _looking_ for that match. I'd just say, "no match"
    and be pretty confident that I was right. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Sun Sep 19 09:29:11 2021
    On 9/18/2021 10:20 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 07:51:46 -0700, pyotr filipivich
    <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

    Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 12:24:29 -0400 typed in
    rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/15/2021 11:15 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:09:00 -0500 typed
    in rec.woodworking the following:
    On 9/13/2021 8:40 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:22:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    Snip


    Bessey's parallel jaw clamps have gotten ridiculously expensive. I >>>>>> bought mine for $25-$40 at the BORG ten years ago. Fortunately I
    bought all I needed (I was going to say more than but...).

    I do not understand a 24" clamp costing about $40. a 48" Clamp $75. Is >>>>> 24 more inches of steel $35?

    I suspect there is an element of "the clampy bit" costs $X and the
    "bar" cost N a foot + plus a cutting fee. Don't forget to factor in
    the "shipping and handling" - longer clamps take more space to make,
    ship, store, etc, - you get to pay for that too.
    Sort of like U-haul - 30 bucks a day plus 1.40 per mile.
    Add in the demand for a particular length and longer clamps become
    "specialty" items.


    A clamp you buy at Rockler is already a "specialty item".

    This is true. I suspect there is still a "Clamp body" + bar (inch)
    + cutting charge, + S&H, plus the "Name Brand Premium".
    It is like many things, you can get one for X dollars, but add-on
    "RV", "Aircraft", "Marine", Medical, etc, and the price goes way up.

    Be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Bessey's current line
    includes a "K Body" and a "K Body Junior" which look very similar, but
    the Junior are cheaper and rated for about half the clamping force.

    Actually the Bessy K Body Juniors are very easy to detect from the
    regular K Body, they are tiny in size. They look like toys.





    At Home Despot a 24" K is 50.37 and a 50" is 62.97. The difference
    isn't unreasonable. There's a 24" "Junior" that's 37.99 and a 50"
    Junior at 47.99.


    FWIW I have no idea what I would use a Junior K Body greater than 12"
    for. Those things are almost toys. I have "1" Junior the Bessey sent
    to me for free. I don't use it for much of anything at all.




    Lowes really needs to replace their Web developer. Searched for
    "clamps" and their site told me that there was no such thing, did I
    want to search for "clasps". Then I reloaded the page and this time
    it found "clamps".


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)