• How do you keep up with your hand tools?

    From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to wrober...@gmail.com on Sun Sep 19 10:10:46 2021
    On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 11:53:29 AM UTC-4, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
    This is really directed toward the small to moderate sized personal shop, rather than a commercial shop. I am constantly trying to figure out better ways to work without wasting time. I have come to the conclusion that I waste a huge amount of time
    looking for the tool I just used an hour ago and laid down somewhere that I cannot remember. Do any of these ideas work for you? All suggestions appreciated.

    1. Use tools as needed and pile them up on all horizontal surfaces in the shop, then hunt them down when needed. Put everything back in it's place every day or two.

    2. Designate a table or other spot as "return tools here" and pile everything there.

    3. "Clean as you go", a motto I saw when doing KP duty in the army. As soon as you finish with a tool, put it back in its place.

    4. Create one or two small dedicated spots to keep frequently used tools handy; hangers on a workbench, a shelf under a work bench, a small rolling cabinet.

    5. Spend some money on duplicates and place them in key locations in the shop. Remote vacuum switch is an example.

    Bob

    Trying to pay attention to the issue of losing hand tools and hoping to lessen the
    occurrence, I noticed something that I did today. I'll bet I do it a lot.

    I had an couple of items that I wanted to hang on hooks. The items have a tab through which I could slip a zip tie to use as a hanger. Both items were lying on
    a work surface that I have in the garage. On that work surface is a 3 drawered toolbox. I slipped the zip tie through the tab, grabbed a pair of diagonal cutters
    from the tool box and carried the item and the tool over to the garbage can on the other side of the garage. I snipped the end of the zip tie directly into the can
    and then walked over to the hook to hang the item. Nice!

    I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
    item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.

    I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
    move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. Like taking a car part and tool down
    to the shop, working on the part and then the bringing only the part back outside
    to the car, leaving the tool behind. If there's a long delay between the use of that
    tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.

    I'll need to work on that. I need to stay more conscious of what I do with the tool, not just what I'm using it on.

    Wish me luck. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sonny@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 19 15:03:01 2021
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

    I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
    item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
    garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.

    I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
    move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....

    If there's a long delay between the use of that
    tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.

    I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.

    Sonny

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Sonny on Sun Sep 19 19:36:36 2021
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 6:03:04 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

    I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
    item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
    garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can.

    I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
    move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....
    If there's a long delay between the use of that
    tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.
    I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.

    Sonny

    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From knuttle@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 20 08:06:23 2021
    On 9/19/2021 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 6:03:04 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:10:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

    I walked back to my work surface, slipped the zip tie through the tab on the other
    item and said "Where the heck are my cutters?" I turned to look over near the
    garbage can and there they were, on the shelf just above the garbage can. >>
    I'll bet I do that a lot. I'll use a tool in the location where I need it, leave it there and
    move on to dealing with the item that I just fixed. ....
    If there's a long delay between the use of that
    tool and the next time I need, I'll probably forget where I left it.
    I think I got you beat, Derby. I have reading glasses at all my shop, home and auto "work stations". It never fails that I'm always looking for misplaced glasses.... and I ain't even drinking.

    Sonny

    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    I have had to many accidental items thrown away, by storing things over
    the garbage can. My wife stored her duster over the garbage can, and
    just recently realized it had fallen in the garbage can. Fortunately I
    am a pack rat, saw it and pulled it when I was transferring the garage
    garbage can to the street tote.

    There is too much danger of loosing tool by storing them over a garbage can

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 20 15:42:30 2021
    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning,
    but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Mon Sep 20 20:19:07 2021
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the
    morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
    bifocals but part of you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Mon Sep 20 22:23:57 2021
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the
    morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

    My problem is that I've always been 20/15. Only now it's just from
    about a foot in front of me to about 2 feet in front of me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Tue Sep 21 08:09:51 2021
    On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.
    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning,
    but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)
    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line bifocals but part of you.

    No-line bifocals or progressive lenses? No-line bifocals is actually an incorrect term for progressive lenses since progressive lenses don't
    have only 2 corrective areas. The correction truly is progressive as you
    move up and down the lens.

    I've tried progressives, three times. The first time they built them wrong. They didn't follow the prescription correctly.

    Then when they made the second set of lenses, it was determined that
    the prescription was written wrong. For all the fancy equipment that the
    doc used to write the prescription, the optician figured out that the prescription was wrong in a matter of seconds. When I went in to pick
    up the glasses I almost immediately thought something was wrong.
    She handed me a card to read and I was able to find a spot on the lens
    where the text was clear, but when I looked up everything was blurry.
    The optician said "Look at the Exit sign at the end of that hallway. How's
    it look?" It was all blurry. There wasn't a single spot on the lens where I could bring it into focus. New prescription required.

    The third time they apparently got everything right because if I try hard enough, I can find an area of the lens that works for various distances. The problem is that I just can't train my brain to find those spots consistently.

    My work requires 2 monitors, papers on my desk, my mobile phone, etc.
    Since everything is at a different distance, progressives force you to keep moving your head up and down and side to side. A slight head tilt screws everything up. Clear peripheral vision is non-existent, just by nature of the way progressive lenses are made. As the optician explained, when it comes
    to progressives "A millimeter is as bad as a mile". If they build the lens just slightly off your center line of sight or the glasses slip down your nose or you
    sit back a little further, everything changes. Some people, like me (and SWMBO) just can't get used to progressives. Trust me, I really tried.

    I'm back to using my bi-focals 99% of the time and 2.5 readers when I
    I need to do closeup work where I can set a consistent working distance
    and just need the magnification to bring everything into focus.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From G Ross@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Tue Sep 21 14:24:29 2021
    krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the
    morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line bifocals but part of you.

    I had implant lens done several years ago. Left for close-up and
    right for distant (for shooting). They overlap at about 12 ft. Never
    had a second's trouble. I never know which eye is working unless I
    look out the windshield at a distant object and close my right eye and
    the object is blurry. Looking at the car instruments and close the
    left eye and they are out of focus. But I can look at the computer
    screen and then look out the window and across the street and never
    have to think which eye is working so they work seamlessly.
    My wife has the same setup for several years with no problems.
    However, she lost her left eye from Temporal Arteritis and now has to
    wear bifocal on the right to counteract the implanted lens, otherwise
    she could not read with that eye. Still better than cataracts.
    Now for today's joke: A doctor was examining a oriental man's
    eyes and said, "Hm, I see you have a cataract". The patient
    exclaimed, "No, No, it's a Rincoln Continental".

    --
    G Ross

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to G Ross on Tue Sep 21 12:11:15 2021
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:24:37 PM UTC-4, G Ross wrote:
    k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning,
    but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)

    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line bifocals but part of you.

    I had implant lens done several years ago. Left for close-up and
    right for distant (for shooting). They overlap at about 12 ft. Never
    had a second's trouble. I never know which eye is working unless I
    look out the windshield at a distant object and close my right eye and
    the object is blurry. Looking at the car instruments and close the
    left eye and they are out of focus. But I can look at the computer
    screen and then look out the window and across the street and never
    have to think which eye is working so they work seamlessly.
    My wife has the same setup for several years with no problems.
    However, she lost her left eye from Temporal Arteritis and now has to
    wear bifocal on the right to counteract the implanted lens, otherwise
    she could not read with that eye. Still better than cataracts.
    Now for today's joke: A doctor was examining a oriental man's
    eyes and said, "Hm, I see you have a cataract". The patient
    exclaimed, "No, No, it's a Rincoln Continental".

    --
    G Ross

    An Asian gentleman is talking to his Financial Advisor.

    Client: "Why does my account keep going up and down?"
    FA: "Fluctuations"
    Client: "Oh yeah? Well fluck you Americans!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From knuttle@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 17:37:04 2021
    On 9/21/2021 3:11 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 2:24:37 PM UTC-4, G Ross wrote:
    k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.

    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.

    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the
    morning, but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-) >>>
    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
    bifocals but part of you.

    I had implant lens done several years ago. Left for close-up and
    right for distant (for shooting). They overlap at about 12 ft. Never
    had a second's trouble. I never know which eye is working unless I
    look out the windshield at a distant object and close my right eye and
    the object is blurry. Looking at the car instruments and close the
    left eye and they are out of focus. But I can look at the computer
    screen and then look out the window and across the street and never
    have to think which eye is working so they work seamlessly.
    My wife has the same setup for several years with no problems.
    However, she lost her left eye from Temporal Arteritis and now has to
    wear bifocal on the right to counteract the implanted lens, otherwise
    she could not read with that eye. Still better than cataracts.
    Now for today's joke: A doctor was examining a oriental man's
    eyes and said, "Hm, I see you have a cataract". The patient
    exclaimed, "No, No, it's a Rincoln Continental".

    --
    G Ross

    An Asian gentleman is talking to his Financial Advisor.

    Client: "Why does my account keep going up and down?"
    FA: "Fluctuations"
    Client: "Oh yeah? Well fluck you Americans!"

    With that you win.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Tue Sep 21 16:36:53 2021
    On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:19:13 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set?

    My left eye is for close and right for distance. I think the focal distance of the left is about 18". I wear a disposable contact on the left eye when I play sports and it is outstanding. I had the laser procedure on both eyes (medicare won't pay for
    that) and it was worth every penny.

    However, no matter how well I see, I still lose my hand tools!

    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Tue Sep 21 20:21:10 2021
    On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 08:09:51 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:36:38 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    I solved that problem a few years ago. I let myself get old enough
    that I need glasses all the time. You tend not to lose them when
    you have to wear them except for when you sleep or shower.
    Well, sorta. I was on my way out the door to work Friday. SWMBO
    asked if I was going naked. Huh? I certainly can't work without my
    glasses but I can operate, at least in the haze of morning. My left
    eye can't be corrected to where it's much use. I can almost read the
    top line of the chart, with correction. I once had 20:10, 20:15
    eyesight. Getting old ain't for sissies.
    There is a phase 3 for some people. It's called cataract surgery. I wore glasses or contacts for 65 years. Then I had lenses replaced in both eyes. My vision is now 20/15 in each eye. I still keep reaching for my glasses when I wake up in the morning,
    but I don't wear them any more and I certainly don't lose them. :-)
    Got those too but not bad enough for surgery. How are your lens
    distances set? The replacement lenses are fixed focal length so it's
    like presbyopia on steroids. Some have one eye for close vision and
    the other for distance, then let the brain figure it out. Some find
    (too late) that the brain can't sort it out. I guess it's like no-line
    bifocals but part of you.

    No-line bifocals or progressive lenses? No-line bifocals is actually an >incorrect term for progressive lenses since progressive lenses don't
    have only 2 corrective areas. The correction truly is progressive as you
    move up and down the lens.

    Progressive (I hate the word ;-)

    I've tried progressives, three times. The first time they built them wrong. >They didn't follow the prescription correctly.

    Then when they made the second set of lenses, it was determined that
    the prescription was written wrong. For all the fancy equipment that the
    doc used to write the prescription, the optician figured out that the >prescription was wrong in a matter of seconds. When I went in to pick
    up the glasses I almost immediately thought something was wrong.
    She handed me a card to read and I was able to find a spot on the lens
    where the text was clear, but when I looked up everything was blurry.
    The optician said "Look at the Exit sign at the end of that hallway. How's
    it look?" It was all blurry. There wasn't a single spot on the lens where I >could bring it into focus. New prescription required.

    The third time they apparently got everything right because if I try hard >enough, I can find an area of the lens that works for various distances. The >problem is that I just can't train my brain to find those spots consistently.

    I don't have too much problem vertically. Peripheral vision drops off
    quickly. Driving gives the neck quite a workout.

    My work requires 2 monitors, papers on my desk, my mobile phone, etc.
    Since everything is at a different distance, progressives force you to keep >moving your head up and down and side to side. A slight head tilt screws >everything up. Clear peripheral vision is non-existent, just by nature of the >way progressive lenses are made. As the optician explained, when it comes
    to progressives "A millimeter is as bad as a mile". If they build the lens just
    slightly off your center line of sight or the glasses slip down your nose or you
    sit back a little further, everything changes. Some people, like me (and SWMBO)
    just can't get used to progressives. Trust me, I really tried.

    I don't have any problem with that (three monitors). All of the
    monitors are at the same distance. I have "computer glasses" that are
    set for .4m (I think that's the number) on top and .2 on the bottom. I
    think I'm going to have safety glasses made for .4m.

    I'm back to using my bi-focals 99% of the time and 2.5 readers when I
    I need to do closeup work where I can set a consistent working distance
    and just need the magnification to bring everything into focus.

    My astigmatisms are too bad to even think about cheaters.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)