• Will A Taiwanese TS Have A Metric Arbor Nut?

    From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 23 17:34:03 2022
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 23 19:05:54 2022
    On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:57:33 PM UTC-5, Markem618 wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You mean "buy". I don't have any metric wrenches that large. Some sockets, yes, but I don't if I'll be able to get them in there. Never seen the saw.

    I'll just buy a set before I go. I don't want to shop while I'm there, I want to cut. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Wed Feb 23 20:57:23 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Wed Feb 23 21:54:43 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    Aren't all TSs made in Taiwan. All hobbyist/pro stationary tools?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    You should be able to buy individual wrenches that large at HD.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    A whole set of HFs is probably cheaper.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Wed Feb 23 21:28:04 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:05:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:57:33 PM UTC-5, Markem618 wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >> >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You mean "buy". I don't have any metric wrenches that large. Some sockets, yes,
    but I don't if I'll be able to get them in there. Never seen the saw.

    I'll just buy a set before I go. I don't want to shop while I'm there, I want to cut. ;-)

    Having looked at Pro-tech stuff that came up on google, mind your
    digits please.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 23 22:54:50 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >>wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Wed Feb 23 22:43:32 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >>>wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade
    cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is
    a gazelle right.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 14:43:27 2022
    DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 24 10:01:42 2022
    On 2/24/2022 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the
    crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

     From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)


    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand?  Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?


    But my Taiwan SS saw uses 32mm/1.25" wrenches on the nut side.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 09:57:29 2022
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)


    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Feb 24 10:07:01 2022
    On 2/23/2022 9:54 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >>> wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.


    LOL. I recall working with Swingman several years ago and removing the
    arbor nut on his Unisaw, pre 2005. Small, very thin, compared to the
    one on my Jet cabinet saw.
    Then he saw the arbor nut on my SS and his eyes about popped out of his
    head.

    A 1.25" wrench is required and it is about triple the depth of his.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Thu Feb 24 10:10:35 2022
    On 2/24/2022 8:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >> wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?



    First thing I thought of. A little hard to determine if it is a
    direction thing or a size thing.

    Many nuts/bolts are difficult to remove with a crescent wrench even if
    it fits the nut.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Thu Feb 24 08:24:15 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last
    changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when
    I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 24 08:24:29 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:10:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/24/2022 8:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    First thing I thought of. A little hard to determine if it is a
    direction thing or a size thing.

    Many nuts/bolts are difficult to remove with a crescent wrench even if
    it fits the nut.

    As I noted in my response to Scott. I'll know more later tonight.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 24 08:28:03 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I put my eyes on the saw.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 11:53:16 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find >a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people >looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I >put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Clare Snyder on Thu Feb 24 09:23:33 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >> > there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >> > off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >> > to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench >> at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people >looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I >put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, specifically a Pro-Tech.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 14:27:18 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >> >> > there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >> >> > off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >> >> > to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench >> >> at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people >> >looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular >saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >specifically a Pro-Tech.

    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Feb 24 12:28:27 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular >saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching
    Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts for a treadmill.

    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 15:53:17 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >> >> >> > a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts >> >> >> and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts >for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Feb 24 13:35:07 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >> >> >> > a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts >> >> >> and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts >for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 20:40:43 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:24:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >> >wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her >boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.

    Well, that's how I know how rare the open-end wrench is.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last >changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when
    I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend >didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.

    I can tell you that the nut can be put on there *real* tight! DAMHIK

    A Crescent wrench can really bugger up that nut. It's a thin nut.
    There is space around it but a wrench wider than the nut can do a real
    number on it. I don't know how hard the nuts are to get. I should
    find one for an emergency. Delta parts are impossible to get. The new
    Delta doesn't give a crap about previous customers. I have the Delta
    Unisaw and a drill press. No more.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 20:33:09 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:07:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/23/2022 9:54 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>> to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.


    LOL. I recall working with Swingman several years ago and removing the
    arbor nut on his Unisaw, pre 2005. Small, very thin, compared to the
    one on my Jet cabinet saw.
    Then he saw the arbor nut on my SS and his eyes about popped out of his
    head.

    A 1.25" wrench is required and it is about triple the depth of his.

    The arbor or the nut?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 20:31:51 2022
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >>>>wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade
    cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is
    a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the
    problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's
    really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in
    case but haven't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 20:47:11 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >>> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>> >> >> > a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts >>> >> >> and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >>> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts >>for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Feb 24 21:13:22 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:31:51 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn >>>horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade >>cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is
    a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the
    problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's
    really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in
    case but haven't.

    It is about a 16th thick so it slips easily between the arbor and
    blade, also works on the craftsman ras.

    This is not your ordinary bandsaw, it was used to cut things in half
    at IH/JI Case research center. Like tractors and combines.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 22:22:11 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 21:13:22 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:31:51 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>>that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn >>>>horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade >>>cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is
    a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the
    problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's >>really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in
    case but haven't.

    It is about a 16th thick so it slips easily between the arbor and
    blade, also works on the craftsman ras.

    This is not your ordinary bandsaw, it was used to cut things in half
    at IH/JI Case research center. Like tractors and combines.

    I found one on ebay (I think) <https://www.ebay.com/itm/265524555198?hash=item3dd27f2dbe:g:JKgAAOSwZnRdAmgz>

    And a nut <https://www.ebay.com/itm/174178506628?epid=1363908782&hash=item288dd91784:g:GV8AAOSwlJBb1Oxq>

    I don't think either is original (the wrench certainly isn't).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Feb 24 21:33:55 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 22:22:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 21:13:22 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:31:51 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>>a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>>>that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn >>>>>horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade >>>>cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is >>>>a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the
    problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's >>>really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in
    case but haven't.

    It is about a 16th thick so it slips easily between the arbor and
    blade, also works on the craftsman ras.

    This is not your ordinary bandsaw, it was used to cut things in half
    at IH/JI Case research center. Like tractors and combines.

    I found one on ebay (I think) ><https://www.ebay.com/itm/265524555198?hash=item3dd27f2dbe:g:JKgAAOSwZnRdAmgz>

    And a nut ><https://www.ebay.com/itm/174178506628?epid=1363908782&hash=item288dd91784:g:GV8AAOSwlJBb1Oxq>

    I don't think either is original (the wrench certainly isn't).

    That would work well, but if you know a machinist it is 7/8" and a
    16th" plate harden it (soak at 500 degree f, quench in a room temp
    water). Bought a replacement nut when Saw Center still existed. Never
    got around to ordering the replacements for my unisaw that I wanted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Thu Feb 24 20:00:06 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:47:17 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >>> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >>> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >>> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >>> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    My digital caliper (General) chews up the A76 battery and spits it on the
    shop floor, laughing maniacally.

    The first indication that the battery is getting weak is that the caliper "automatically" switches to mm while I'm using it.


    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Thu Feb 24 20:27:44 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:40:48 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:24:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her >boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.
    Well, that's how I know how rare the open-end wrench is.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last >changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when
    I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend >didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.
    I can tell you that the nut can be put on there *real* tight! DAMHIK

    A Crescent wrench can really bugger up that nut. It's a thin nut.
    There is space around it but a wrench wider than the nut can do a real
    number on it. I don't know how hard the nuts are to get.

    So, for lack of a better post to respond to with the outcome, you win. ;-)

    This is what I was I dealing with:

    https://i.imgur.com/FGoP7eW.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/8LEUOtN.jpg

    As you can see the nut and washer are pretty rusty, and yes, buggered
    up. I discovered that my daughter (and her BF) were trying to break
    it free with an 8" crescent wrench. Ain't no friggin' way they were
    getting that nut off with an 8" crescent wrench.

    Turns out the nut might be 23 mm, per my caliper. (22.8x depending
    on where I measured it.) All I had with me was SAE. 7/8" was too small,
    15/16" was a little loose, but I got it to work. It took about all I had to break it free, but once it did, it spun off real easy.

    However, looking at that saw, especially the fence, I'm not sure I even
    want to use it. My daughter told me that it shot a piece of trim into
    her BF's knee the last time he used it. Could have been his technique,
    who knows.

    It's got a new blade on it now...I just hope I don't need it for the projects I'm
    working on. I may let my circular saw handle any ripping I need to do. I'm
    not building furniture.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 23:49:54 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 21:33:55 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 22:22:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 21:13:22 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:31:51 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>>>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>>>a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>>>>there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>>>>off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>>>>to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>>>>that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn >>>>>>horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade >>>>>cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is >>>>>a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the >>>>problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's >>>>really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in >>>>case but haven't.

    It is about a 16th thick so it slips easily between the arbor and
    blade, also works on the craftsman ras.

    This is not your ordinary bandsaw, it was used to cut things in half
    at IH/JI Case research center. Like tractors and combines.

    I found one on ebay (I think) >><https://www.ebay.com/itm/265524555198?hash=item3dd27f2dbe:g:JKgAAOSwZnRdAmgz>

    And a nut >><https://www.ebay.com/itm/174178506628?epid=1363908782&hash=item288dd91784:g:GV8AAOSwlJBb1Oxq>

    I don't think either is original (the wrench certainly isn't).

    That would work well, but if you know a machinist it is 7/8" and a
    16th" plate harden it (soak at 500 degree f, quench in a room temp
    water). Bought a replacement nut when Saw Center still existed. Never
    got around to ordering the replacements for my unisaw that I wanted.

    I ordered them "just-in-case". Parts are hard to come by so "sighted
    sub, sank same".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Feb 24 23:57:16 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:27:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:40:48 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:24:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >> >> >there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >> >> >off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her >> >boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.
    Well, that's how I know how rare the open-end wrench is.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last
    changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when
    I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend >> >didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.
    I can tell you that the nut can be put on there *real* tight! DAMHIK

    A Crescent wrench can really bugger up that nut. It's a thin nut.
    There is space around it but a wrench wider than the nut can do a real
    number on it. I don't know how hard the nuts are to get.

    So, for lack of a better post to respond to with the outcome, you win. ;-)

    This is what I was I dealing with:

    https://i.imgur.com/FGoP7eW.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/8LEUOtN.jpg

    As you can see the nut and washer are pretty rusty, and yes, buggered
    up. I discovered that my daughter (and her BF) were trying to break
    it free with an 8" crescent wrench. Ain't no friggin' way they were
    getting that nut off with an 8" crescent wrench.

    Nope. It's a mess.

    Turns out the nut might be 23 mm, per my caliper. (22.8x depending
    on where I measured it.) All I had with me was SAE. 7/8" was too small, >15/16" was a little loose, but I got it to work. It took about all I had to >break it free, but once it did, it spun off real easy.

    If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer (or breaker
    bar/pipe).

    However, looking at that saw, especially the fence, I'm not sure I even
    want to use it. My daughter told me that it shot a piece of trim into
    her BF's knee the last time he used it. Could have been his technique,
    who knows.

    If it were me, I'd buy them a better (perhaps even new) saw. My son
    has no interest in doing anything himself (but should). I gave him
    some really nice tools but I don't think he's ever plugged them in.

    It's got a new blade on it now...I just hope I don't need it for the projects I'm
    working on. I may let my circular saw handle any ripping I need to do. I'm >not building furniture.

    If you don't feel safe using it, should they be using it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Fri Feb 25 05:30:00 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:57:24 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:27:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:40:48 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:24:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: >> >> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >> >> >there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >> >> >off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her >> >boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.
    Well, that's how I know how rare the open-end wrench is.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last >> >changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when >> >I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend >> >didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.
    I can tell you that the nut can be put on there *real* tight! DAMHIK

    A Crescent wrench can really bugger up that nut. It's a thin nut.
    There is space around it but a wrench wider than the nut can do a real
    number on it. I don't know how hard the nuts are to get.

    So, for lack of a better post to respond to with the outcome, you win. ;-)

    This is what I was I dealing with:

    https://i.imgur.com/FGoP7eW.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/8LEUOtN.jpg

    As you can see the nut and washer are pretty rusty, and yes, buggered
    up. I discovered that my daughter (and her BF) were trying to break
    it free with an 8" crescent wrench. Ain't no friggin' way they were
    getting that nut off with an 8" crescent wrench.
    Nope. It's a mess.
    Turns out the nut might be 23 mm, per my caliper. (22.8x depending
    on where I measured it.) All I had with me was SAE. 7/8" was too small, >15/16" was a little loose, but I got it to work. It took about all I had to >break it free, but once it did, it spun off real easy.
    If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer (or breaker
    bar/pipe).
    However, looking at that saw, especially the fence, I'm not sure I even >want to use it. My daughter told me that it shot a piece of trim into
    her BF's knee the last time he used it. Could have been his technique,
    who knows.
    If it were me, I'd buy them a better (perhaps even new) saw. My son
    has no interest in doing anything himself (but should). I gave him
    some really nice tools but I don't think he's ever plugged them in.
    It's got a new blade on it now...I just hope I don't need it for the projects I'm
    working on. I may let my circular saw handle any ripping I need to do. I'm >not building furniture.
    If you don't feel safe using it, should they be using it?

    Her BF works for his father. Concrete business. I didn't know it until
    last night, but the saw is technically a "business asset". I thought that
    the TS and a miter saw that have been at my daughter's house for few
    months were the BF's, but they are actually his dad's/the business's.

    I've been using the miter saw for various projects around the house, just didn't need the TS. However, they both needed blades, so I bought them, basically for the BF for all the work he's done around the house. My daughter doesn't use the TS and I'm not buying tools for the Dad's business.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sonny@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 06:26:08 2022
    My nephew owns Ascention ReadyMix in Baton Rouge. He's a multi-millionaire. I would assume the BF's dad is of some worth. The BF should buy her a decent saw. Period!

    Sonny

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Feb 25 12:12:58 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:47:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >>>> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>> >> >> > a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts >>>> >> >> and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >>>> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >>>> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >>>> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts >>>for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    I have a Cen-Tech 6" digital caliper bought on sale some years ago. It
    does not eat batteries. But you do need to use silver oxide
    batteries, not alkaline. Even if they came with alkaline.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 14:47:00 2022
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 12:12:58 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:47:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >>>>> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >>>>> >> >> On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >>>>> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation. >>>>> >> Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >>>>> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >>>>> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >>>>> >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has >>>>> the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded >>>>> by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>>>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF >>calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    I have a Cen-Tech 6" digital caliper bought on sale some years ago. It
    does not eat batteries. But you do need to use silver oxide
    batteries, not alkaline. Even if they came with alkaline.

    I've bought at least three or four of them. I don't think I've ever
    picked one up, unless I'd just changed batteries, that worked. Yes, I
    use the silver oxide batteries but the fact is that these leak like
    hell. They really are crap.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Fri Feb 25 14:43:47 2022
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 05:30:00 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:57:24 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:27:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:40:48 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:24:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:43:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote: >> >> >> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.
    Is she turning the wrench in the _right_ direction?

    Based on what I was told, yes. Arbor enters blade from left, she (and her
    boyfriend, a concrete contractor) were pulling the wrench towards the
    front of the saw. We even talked about it on the phone.
    Well, that's how I know how rare the open-end wrench is.

    I've seen the saw. It's well used. No one knows when the blade was last >> >> >changed or how tight the nut was tightened. I'll know more tonight when >> >> >I put my own eyes on it. It could be just a leverage thing. Her boyfriend
    didn't have any "large" tools with him, just her 10" crescent.
    I can tell you that the nut can be put on there *real* tight! DAMHIK

    A Crescent wrench can really bugger up that nut. It's a thin nut.
    There is space around it but a wrench wider than the nut can do a real
    number on it. I don't know how hard the nuts are to get.

    So, for lack of a better post to respond to with the outcome, you win. ;-) >> >
    This is what I was I dealing with:

    https://i.imgur.com/FGoP7eW.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/8LEUOtN.jpg

    As you can see the nut and washer are pretty rusty, and yes, buggered
    up. I discovered that my daughter (and her BF) were trying to break
    it free with an 8" crescent wrench. Ain't no friggin' way they were
    getting that nut off with an 8" crescent wrench.
    Nope. It's a mess.
    Turns out the nut might be 23 mm, per my caliper. (22.8x depending
    on where I measured it.) All I had with me was SAE. 7/8" was too small,
    15/16" was a little loose, but I got it to work. It took about all I had to >> >break it free, but once it did, it spun off real easy.
    If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer (or breaker
    bar/pipe).
    However, looking at that saw, especially the fence, I'm not sure I even
    want to use it. My daughter told me that it shot a piece of trim into
    her BF's knee the last time he used it. Could have been his technique,
    who knows.
    If it were me, I'd buy them a better (perhaps even new) saw. My son
    has no interest in doing anything himself (but should). I gave him
    some really nice tools but I don't think he's ever plugged them in.
    It's got a new blade on it now...I just hope I don't need it for the projects I'm
    working on. I may let my circular saw handle any ripping I need to do. I'm >> >not building furniture.
    If you don't feel safe using it, should they be using it?

    Her BF works for his father. Concrete business. I didn't know it until
    last night, but the saw is technically a "business asset". I thought that
    the TS and a miter saw that have been at my daughter's house for few
    months were the BF's, but they are actually his dad's/the business's.

    I've been using the miter saw for various projects around the house, just >didn't need the TS. However, they both needed blades, so I bought them, >basically for the BF for all the work he's done around the house. My daughter >doesn't use the TS and I'm not buying tools for the Dad's business.

    I don't see how it would buying it for his dad's business. If the saw
    is as bad as you say, I'd look at a new one as an insurance policy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Feb 25 16:09:23 2022
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 14:47:00 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 12:12:58 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:47:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >>>>>> >> >> On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >>>>>> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation. >>>>>> >> Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >>>>>> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >>>>>> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade. >>>>>> >
    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >>>>>> >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has >>>>>> the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded >>>>>> by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>>>>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will >>>>settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF >>>calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    I have a Cen-Tech 6" digital caliper bought on sale some years ago. It
    does not eat batteries. But you do need to use silver oxide
    batteries, not alkaline. Even if they came with alkaline.

    I've bought at least three or four of them. I don't think I've ever
    picked one up, unless I'd just changed batteries, that worked. Yes, I
    use the silver oxide batteries but the fact is that these leak like
    hell. They really are crap.

    Silver oxide batteries *of good manufacture* do not "leak like hell".
    Hmm. Lots of alkaline batteries are sold as "silver oxide", a lie.
    Don't buy batteries on Amazon, or online at all.

    But maybe you need to get Mitutoyo calipers. But they want silver
    oxide as well.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 13:59:34 2022
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)


    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a
    2x4 into the blade.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 16:59:24 2022
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:09:23 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 14:47:00 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 12:12:58 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:47:11 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:53:17 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>wrote:

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 >>>>><teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >>>>>>> >> >> On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >>>>>>> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation. >>>>>>> >> Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >>>>>>> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade. >>>>>>> >
    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >>>>>>> >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has >>>>>>> the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded >>>>>>> by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >>>>>>Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.

    Vintage Machinery may also help.


    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.


    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will >>>>>settle the issue as well.

    No it won't. The battery will be dead. I can't keep batteries in HF >>>>calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    I have a Cen-Tech 6" digital caliper bought on sale some years ago. It >>>does not eat batteries. But you do need to use silver oxide
    batteries, not alkaline. Even if they came with alkaline.

    I've bought at least three or four of them. I don't think I've ever
    picked one up, unless I'd just changed batteries, that worked. Yes, I
    use the silver oxide batteries but the fact is that these leak like
    hell. They really are crap.

    Silver oxide batteries *of good manufacture* do not "leak like hell".
    Hmm. Lots of alkaline batteries are sold as "silver oxide", a lie.
    Don't buy batteries on Amazon, or online at all.

    No, the calipers leak like hell. They're junk.

    But maybe you need to get Mitutoyo calipers. But they want silver
    oxide as well.

    Yeah Starrett makes fine tools and I'm sure Mitutoyo tools are good
    too, at $125, but we were talking about $20 Harbor Freight crap. HF's
    dial calipers work well enough for most uses.

    Again, the problem isn't the batteries.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Feb 25 16:56:51 2022
    On 2/24/2022 7:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:07:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/23/2022 9:54 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>> to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.


    LOL. I recall working with Swingman several years ago and removing the
    arbor nut on his Unisaw, pre 2005. Small, very thin, compared to the
    one on my Jet cabinet saw.
    Then he saw the arbor nut on my SS and his eyes about popped out of his
    head.

    A 1.25" wrench is required and it is about triple the depth of his.

    The arbor or the nut?


    The nut. The arbor is still 5/8 on the small diameter end. The bearing
    end is quite a bit larger in diameter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Feb 25 16:58:23 2022
    On 2/24/2022 7:31 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:43:32 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>> to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in
    that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.

    I have offset closed end 7/8 actually two of them, and a bandsaw blade
    cutoff that is custom made by my dad. If a unicorn has two horns it is
    a gazelle right.

    The outer, arbor nut, is easy. It's the arbor itself that's the
    problem. Is the bandsaw blade wide enough to get to the arbor? That's
    really what's needed.

    I've seen some skinny wrenches on Amazon. I should buy one just in
    case but haven't.


    I bought an inexpensive wrench at HD years ago and ground it down
    narrower with a bench grinder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Feb 25 18:35:29 2022
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    Check out the picture I posted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 22:13:17 2022
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:56:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/24/2022 7:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:07:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/23/2022 9:54 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>> to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>> that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn
    horns are easier to come by, too.


    LOL. I recall working with Swingman several years ago and removing the
    arbor nut on his Unisaw, pre 2005. Small, very thin, compared to the
    one on my Jet cabinet saw.
    Then he saw the arbor nut on my SS and his eyes about popped out of his
    head.

    A 1.25" wrench is required and it is about triple the depth of his.

    The arbor or the nut?


    The nut. The arbor is still 5/8 on the small diameter end. The bearing
    end is quite a bit larger in diameter.

    5/8" arbor but how large are the flats the wrench bites into?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Feb 26 08:59:42 2022
    On 2/25/2022 9:13 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:56:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/24/2022 7:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:07:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/23/2022 9:54 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:23 -0600, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:34:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>>> to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)

    The nut on Unisaw is a 7/8" is equal to 21 mm, so would take a few in >>>>>> that range.

    You're not going to get a normal wrench on a Unisaur arbor. Unicorn >>>>> horns are easier to come by, too.


    LOL. I recall working with Swingman several years ago and removing the >>>> arbor nut on his Unisaw, pre 2005. Small, very thin, compared to the
    one on my Jet cabinet saw.
    Then he saw the arbor nut on my SS and his eyes about popped out of his >>>> head.

    A 1.25" wrench is required and it is about triple the depth of his.

    The arbor or the nut?


    The nut. The arbor is still 5/8 on the small diameter end. The bearing
    end is quite a bit larger in diameter.

    5/8" arbor but how large are the flats the wrench bites into?

    The open end of the wrench is 1.25"
    The closed end 1.0625"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From hubops@ccanoemail.ca@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 10:11:30 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !
    John T.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 08:53:48 2022
    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent >>> wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    Check out the picture I posted.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a
    decent size.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to hubops@ccanoemail.ca on Sat Feb 26 09:26:51 2022
    On 2/26/2022 9:11 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a
    decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !
    John T.



    I know right? LOL. I looked on line sad saw no adjustable sized
    wrenches with the size stated as "good sized". ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to hub...@ccanoemail.ca on Sat Feb 26 07:27:48 2022
    On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:09:11 AM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >decent size.

    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?

    Based on the information provided in this thread, the range is at least 29/32” to 1 1\4”.

    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?

    I wonder what the range of “stuck” is.

    Based on my experience, an 8” crescent isn’t enough for the
    lower end of the range at the stuckness of the nut in question.

    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !

    I hope I have made the pondering easier by supplying some
    empirical data.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. Clarke@21:1/5 to hubops@ccanoemail.ca on Sat Feb 26 11:09:22 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >>decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations. It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH. People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either. But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to J. Clarke on Sat Feb 26 10:09:13 2022
    On 2/26/2022 9:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>>>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >>> decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations. It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH. People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either. But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.


    One would assume that OP would be intelligent enough to know what a
    "good size" adjustable wrench for the saw he owns is. Its his saw after
    all. Of course there is the possibility he has never change a blade
    before, doesn't know if he can pull a dust cover if need be or must
    reach through a plate opening in the table, and has no ability to
    visualize simple spacial relations. I don't think that is very likely.
    Even those most limited in ability develop those skills over time with practice in trades such as wood working. You all could choose to argue
    for the incompetence of DerbyDad03, but I choose to think based on
    observation even if just in this group that is not the case. If you
    prefer not the term good size, then try on appropriate size, decent
    size, or right size. In spite of the fact that many seem to think
    dumping selection and raising prices is a best business practices for
    retail I still choose to believe most of you possess a reasonable
    modicum of intelligence.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 26 10:28:46 2022
    On 2/26/2022 10:24 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/26/2022 11:09 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/26/2022 9:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm >>>>>>>> heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get >>>>>>>> the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that >>>>>>>> the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I >>>>>>>> may have
    to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if
    you jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size".  I wonder if the nut >>>>> is a
    decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ? >>>> I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit  and  also  provide >>>> good leverage  for the  stuck nut  ?
      Oh my goodness ..  so many  important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations.  It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH.  People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either.  But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.


    One would assume that OP would be intelligent enough to know what a
    "good size" adjustable wrench for the saw he owns is.  Its his saw
    after all.  Of course there is the possibility he has never change a
    blade before, doesn't know if he can pull a dust cover if need be or
    must reach through a plate opening in the table, and has no ability to
    visualize simple spacial relations.  I don't think that is very
    likely.   Even those most limited in ability develop those skills over
    time with practice in trades such as wood working.  You all could
    choose to argue for the incompetence of DerbyDad03, but I choose to
    think based on observation even if just in this group that is not the
    case.  If you prefer not the term good size, then try on appropriate
    size, decent size, or right size.  In spite of the fact that many seem
    to think dumping selection and raising prices is a best business
    practices for retail I still choose to believe most of you possess a
    reasonable modicum of intelligence.



    Finished now?

    Are you?


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sat Feb 26 11:24:03 2022
    On 2/26/2022 11:09 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/26/2022 9:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm
    heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get
    the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that
    the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I
    may have
    to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you >>>>>> jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size".  I wonder if the nut
    is a
    decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit  and  also  provide
    good leverage  for the  stuck nut  ?
      Oh my goodness ..  so many  important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations.  It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH.  People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either.  But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.


    One would assume that OP would be intelligent enough to know what a
    "good size" adjustable wrench for the saw he owns is.  Its his saw after all.  Of course there is the possibility he has never change a blade
    before, doesn't know if he can pull a dust cover if need be or must
    reach through a plate opening in the table, and has no ability to
    visualize simple spacial relations.  I don't think that is very likely.
     Even those most limited in ability develop those skills over time with practice in trades such as wood working.  You all could choose to argue
    for the incompetence of DerbyDad03, but I choose to think based on observation even if just in this group that is not the case.  If you
    prefer not the term good size, then try on appropriate size, decent
    size, or right size.  In spite of the fact that many seem to think
    dumping selection and raising prices is a best business practices for
    retail I still choose to believe most of you possess a reasonable
    modicum of intelligence.



    Finished now?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 14:18:45 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:24:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 11:09 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/26/2022 9:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm >>>>>>>> heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get >>>>>>>> the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that >>>>>>>> the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I >>>>>>>> may have
    to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you >>>>>>> jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut
    is a
    decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ? >>>> I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations. It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH. People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either. But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.


    One would assume that OP would be intelligent enough to know what a
    "good size" adjustable wrench for the saw he owns is. Its his saw after
    all. Of course there is the possibility he has never change a blade
    before, doesn't know if he can pull a dust cover if need be or must
    reach through a plate opening in the table, and has no ability to
    visualize simple spacial relations. I don't think that is very likely.
    Even those most limited in ability develop those skills over time with
    practice in trades such as wood working. You all could choose to argue
    for the incompetence of DerbyDad03, but I choose to think based on
    observation even if just in this group that is not the case. If you
    prefer not the term good size, then try on appropriate size, decent
    size, or right size. In spite of the fact that many seem to think
    dumping selection and raising prices is a best business practices for
    retail I still choose to believe most of you possess a reasonable
    modicum of intelligence.



    Finished now?

    I don't think he's even _started_ to read the thread.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 14:15:56 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:26:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 9:11 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have >>>>>> to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a >>>>> 2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >>> decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !
    John T.



    I know right? LOL. I looked on line sad saw no adjustable sized
    wrenches with the size stated as "good sized". ;~)

    Like when Lincoln was asked how long a man's legs should be, because
    he was so tall. He replied "just long enough to reach the floor."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Sat Feb 26 12:05:04 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one: <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 20:23:41 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:05:04 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one: ><https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>

    It needs a (usable) vernier scale on it and I'd buy them. It may have
    its uses in any case. Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sat Feb 26 18:49:17 2022
    On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 12:09:20 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/26/2022 9:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 10:11:30 -0500, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 08:53:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/25/2022 8:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have >>>>>> a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading >>>>>> there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut >>>>>> off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >>>>>>
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    A decent size adjustable wrench should do the job just fine if you jam a
    2x4 into the blade.


    I wonder what wold qualify as a "decent size". I wonder if the nut is a >>> decent size.


    I wonder what range of sizes a table saw arbor nut could possibly be ?
    I wonder what size of adustable wrench would fit and also provide
    good leverage for the stuck nut ?
    Oh my goodness .. so many important details to ponder !

    I used to keep a 3 foot long crescent wrench around for such
    situations. It would open to more than 3 inches and doubled
    occasionally as a BFH. People didn't tend to mess with me when I had
    it in my hand either. But one day somebody nicked it and I haven't
    felt the need to shell out for another one.
    One would assume that OP would be intelligent enough to know what a
    "good size" adjustable wrench for the saw he owns is. Its his saw after
    all.

    Have you even read this thread? I've already stated that it's not my saw.

    Of course there is the possibility he has never change a blade
    before, doesn't know if he can pull a dust cover if need be or must
    reach through a plate opening in the table, and has no ability to
    visualize simple spacial relations. I don't think that is very likely.

    Have you even read this thread? I've already stated (and most everyone
    else here knows) that I know how to change a blade on many different
    types of saws. The question was *only* on the type of nut (metric or SAE)
    on a saw that was known to made in Taiwan.

    Even those most limited in ability develop those skills over time with practice in trades such as wood working. You all could choose to argue
    for the incompetence of DerbyDad03, but I choose to think based on observation even if just in this group that is not the case. If you
    prefer not the term good size, then try on appropriate size, decent
    size, or right size. In spite of the fact that many seem to think
    dumping selection and raising prices is a best business practices for
    retail I still choose to believe most of you possess a reasonable
    modicum of intelligence.

    Umm...ok...who here mentioned my "incompetence"? Maybe I missed
    that part of my own thread. Can you point it out for me?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From hubops@ccanoemail.ca@21:1/5 to Jack on Wed Mar 2 10:05:51 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>
    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    John T.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 2 09:47:19 2022
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one: <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.

    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Jack on Wed Mar 2 07:47:35 2022
    On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 10:25:20 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    The second (pocket) one would be of little use to me. I use all three features of my calipers. Inside, outside and depth. I also use them outside of the shop.

    e.g. I was mounting a TV this weekend and needed to know how deep one of the holes on the TV was. I didn't want the bolt to make connect with any internal parts.
    The depth gauge helped me determine the right length for the bolt.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to hubops@ccanoemail.ca on Wed Mar 2 10:25:12 2022
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>
    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.



    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Jack on Wed Mar 2 14:08:17 2022
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to hubops@ccanoemail.ca on Wed Mar 2 14:02:15 2022
    On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 10:05:51 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>
    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    I find vernier too hard to see in most light. It'd more or less
    necessary in some circumstances, like miter gauges but in that case
    lighting isn't as much a problem. It's a small work space. I sure
    don't want to use a vernier for everything.

    Dial calipers are a good compromise. Metal calipers are fragile and
    easily dinged. Plastic is less likely to get damaged by "normal" shop
    use. I had Wiha calipers at work. It was metric but they have an
    imperial version. Not cheap though.

    <https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wiha/41104/1706538>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Mar 3 11:36:44 2022
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.

    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to Jack on Thu Mar 3 16:33:25 2022
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge >(+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Clare Snyder on Thu Mar 3 13:43:47 2022
    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge >(+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Thu Mar 3 20:52:20 2022
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >> >>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >> >>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >> >>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >> >>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >> >>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >> >>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 3 20:41:33 2022
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge >>(+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 11:10:08 2022
    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.



    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 11:02:56 2022
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>>>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Mar 4 09:55:16 2022
    On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 12:10:18 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16
    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.

    Or multiple mixed fractions and mixed operations

    (4 3/16 - 2 5/8 + 1 1/2 + 3 23/32) / 3 = 2 25/96 or 2.26042

    Why hurt my head when I can tap some buttons? *Waaaay* less
    chance of an error.

    We all use technology to make our lives easier. A slide rule put a
    man on the moon, but I think they've upgraded their technology
    by now.


    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?
    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Mar 4 13:37:14 2022
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like >49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Mar 4 14:23:14 2022
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:10:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.

    OK, that's 2-14/32 - 27/32
    You know you're going to have to borrow one so add one (32/32) to the
    14/32, giving 46/32. 46/32 - 27/32 is 19/32,

    1-19/32


    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 12:20:13 2022
    On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 2:23:20 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:10:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.
    OK, that's 2-14/32 - 27/32
    You know you're going to have to borrow one so add one (32/32) to the
    14/32, giving 46/32. 46/32 - 27/32 is 19/32,

    1-19/32

    Everyone here (I'm assuming) knows the math.

    We also know how to write a letter, put it in an envelope, stamp it and get it into the USPS system in one manner or the other. Yet most of us use email.

    We all know how to chop nuts into little pieces with a knife, but many of us use a food processer.

    I could beat my clothes on a rock down by the river, but I choose to use my washing machine.

    Like I said earlier, tapping buttons gets me the same answer, quicker, easier and with less (zero?) chance of error.

    Repeating my other example, I'd use the app for this every time:

    (4 3/16 - 2 5/8 + 1 1/2 + 3 23/32) / 3 = 2 25/96 or 2.26042


    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 15:36:28 2022
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is
    not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the
    object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you
    wanted.

    I try not to actually drag and click on an attachment point. I try to
    start the line in the direction that I want it to go and then type the distance.

    I found that this most often happened when not insuring the lines were
    going in the direction that I expected, although they appeared to be.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 15:28:10 2022
    On 3/4/2022 1:23 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:10:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.

    OK, that's 2-14/32 - 27/32
    You know you're going to have to borrow one so add one (32/32) to the
    14/32, giving 46/32. 46/32 - 27/32 is 19/32,

    Yes....

    1-19/32


    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Fri Mar 4 18:17:56 2022
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 12:20:13 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 2:23:20 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:10:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >> >>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >> >>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >> >>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >> >>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >> >>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >> >>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >> >>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings.

    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone.
    Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.
    OK, that's 2-14/32 - 27/32
    You know you're going to have to borrow one so add one (32/32) to the
    14/32, giving 46/32. 46/32 - 27/32 is 19/32,

    1-19/32

    Everyone here (I'm assuming) knows the math.

    We also know how to write a letter, put it in an envelope, stamp it and get it >into the USPS system in one manner or the other. Yet most of us use email.

    We all know how to chop nuts into little pieces with a knife, but many of us >use a food processer.

    I could beat my clothes on a rock down by the river, but I choose to use my >washing machine.

    Like I said earlier, tapping buttons gets me the same answer, quicker, easier >and with less (zero?) chance of error.

    Repeating my other example, I'd use the app for this every time:

    Sorry. Got no apps in my shop.

    (4 3/16 - 2 5/8 + 1 1/2 + 3 23/32) / 3 = 2 25/96 or 2.26042


    If it needs to be divided by two, multiply the largest denominator by
    two.

    It also provides a decimal result (1.5625)

    For what purpose? So that you can convert to metric?

    1.5625, not checking, I believe is 1-9/16" Just checked YES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Mar 4 18:22:28 2022
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>>>>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up >>>> a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like >>> 49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is
    not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the
    object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you
    wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that
    it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect
    it to be.


    I try not to actually drag and click on an attachment point. I try to
    start the line in the direction that I want it to go and then type the >distance.

    I found that this most often happened when not insuring the lines were
    going in the direction that I expected, although they appeared to be.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Mar 4 17:34:30 2022
    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up >>>>> a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like >>>> 49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is
    not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the
    object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you
    wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that
    it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect
    it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to? Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line.
    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection
    point.




    I try not to actually drag and click on an attachment point. I try to
    start the line in the direction that I want it to go and then type the
    distance.

    I found that this most often happened when not insuring the lines were
    going in the direction that I expected, although they appeared to be.

    Absolutely!!! I try to watch for the red, blue, and green lines when
    drawing a line. Pink/Purplish lines mean that lines are not setting up
    in ortho mode and are possibly going in a direction that is the same as
    another non ortho line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Mar 4 22:43:37 2022
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up >>>>>> a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like >>>>> 49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up >>>> gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is
    not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the
    object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you
    wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that
    it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect
    it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line.

    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection >point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Mar 5 10:52:19 2022
    On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed >>>>>>> between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the >>>>>>> batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor >>>>>>> issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my >>>>>>> shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to >>>>>>> read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have >>>>>>> to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries.

    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30 >>>>>>> on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more.

    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with >>> tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.
    I think all, at least most digital calipers show MM, inch and fractions.
    I rarely use anything other than fractions though. My digital calipers,
    besides the dead battery thing also has the the added advantage of the
    battery cover falling off. Granted, that's just this particular model,
    but still...

    My biggest gripe besides the above is I really have no need for 7/128ths
    of an inch. I'd love it if it had a selectable precision like say
    1/16th, 1/32 instead of defaulting to 128th's.

    Now that I have the dial calipers in fractions, I have no need for the
    digital crap other than rare instances. With the added advantage they
    are ALWAYS ready to go, no worries of a dead battery.

    Also, the dial is segmented into 1/64ths of an inch, and EASY to read,
    and while never needed, it's easy even for old tired eyes to read
    between the lines so technically 128th is a snap, even if useless for
    most everything in a wood shop.
    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 5 11:14:14 2022
    On 3/4/2022 3:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 2:23:20 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:10:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:52 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html> >>>>>>>>>>> Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I >>>>>>>>>>> thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ... >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial >>>>>>>>> calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The >>>>>>>>> dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are >>>>>>>>> what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic >>>>>>>>> ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is >>>>>>>> going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless >>>>>>>> for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say
    bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old
    combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I >>>>>>> doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    Same here. 3 types of physical measurements and 3 types of readings. >>>>>
    I also like the Fraction Calculator app that I have on my smartphone. >>>>> Direct entry of mixed numbers:

    4 3/16 - 2 5/8 = 1 9/16

    I don't use a calculator, just do the arithmetic using the largest
    denominator.

    4-3/16 - 2-10/16 or 4.3 - 2.10 (mod 16) = 1-9/16

    But mixed fractions, 2-7/16" - 27/32". I know double the 7 and
    subtract 27.
    OK, that's 2-14/32 - 27/32
    You know you're going to have to borrow one so add one (32/32) to the
    14/32, giving 46/32. 46/32 - 27/32 is 19/32,

    1-19/32

    Everyone here (I'm assuming) knows the math.

    We also know how to write a letter, put it in an envelope, stamp it and get it
    into the USPS system in one manner or the other. Yet most of us use email.

    We all know how to chop nuts into little pieces with a knife, but many of us use a food processer.

    I could beat my clothes on a rock down by the river, but I choose to use my washing machine.

    Like I said earlier, tapping buttons gets me the same answer, quicker, easier and with less (zero?) chance of error.

    Repeating my other example, I'd use the app for this every time:

    (4 3/16 - 2 5/8 + 1 1/2 + 3 23/32) / 3 = 2 25/96 or 2.26042

    I also use the Fractional Calculator/Plus free app on my phone. Works a
    treat and is made for woodworkers. Doing this stuff in your head is
    fraught with danger, particularly if your head is old and curmudgeonly...

    At one time long, long long ago when I used a regular calculator and had
    to convert decimals into fractions, I had most of them memorized like
    Leon. I had a card I made for reference just in case. All that is
    obsoleted with this app.

    Interestingly, I still have the little solar powered calculator I bought
    in the 70's that still works perfect. Last I checked, it even worked in
    the dark w/o solar with it's battery that can't be changed. The solar
    works with just the florescent lighting in my shop. That thing is
    amazing although obsolete with the cell phone apps. It still sits in top
    of my TS fence.
    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Mar 5 10:54:48 2022
    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example.

    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up >>>>>>> a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like >>>>>> 49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75"

    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come
    out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up >>>>> gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is
    not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the >>>> object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you
    wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that
    it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect
    it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line.

    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection
    point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up
    window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly.
    An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components
    so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Mar 5 15:52:28 2022
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:54:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter).

    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more >>>>>>>>>>> accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better >>>>>>>>>>> than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example. >>>>>>>>>>
    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up >>>>>>>> a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments.

    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75" >>>>>>
    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come >>>>>> out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up >>>>>> gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is >>>>> not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the >>>>> object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you >>>>> wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that
    it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect >>>> it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line.

    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new >>> line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection
    point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up
    window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    I do use lengths when not snapping to an existing point. Somewhere
    along the way something goes wacky. I'm wondering if it's not a
    conversion or rounding error.

    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly.
    An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components
    so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    I don't think I can make any dimension less a 1/64th.

    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Sat Mar 5 18:55:56 2022
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:35:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish. >> >> >> >> >
    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >> >> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >> >> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut >> >> >> the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >> >Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    What size did that arbor nut turn out to be?

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Mar 5 17:56:07 2022
    On 3/5/2022 2:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:54:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example. >>>>>>>>>>>
    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my >>>>>>>>>>> drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I >>>>>>>>>>> don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well >>>>>>>>>> as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>>>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments. >>>>>>>>
    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75" >>>>>>>
    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come >>>>>>> out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up >>>>>>> gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was
    learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is >>>>>> not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the >>>>>> object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you >>>>>> wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that >>>>> it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I
    tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect >>>>> it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line. >>>
    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new >>>> line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection >>>> point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up
    window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    I do use lengths when not snapping to an existing point. Somewhere
    along the way something goes wacky. I'm wondering if it's not a
    conversion or rounding error.

    No, not by the program in the increment that you're referencing, 1/64".
    I don't think so. Sketchup really only rounds if your input is wonky.
    Do you work in smaller fractions that would require Sketchup to round up?


    If your length is input or snaps to x/128 or smaller it would round up.
    But if you are drawing, intentionally, in x/32" of an inch or greater
    I don't see any rounding.

    I have never found it to be Sketchup's fault.






    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly.
    An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components
    so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    I don't think I can make any dimension less a 1/64th.

    Not in fractions but in decimal/engineering you can go to .00000"




    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sat Mar 5 16:46:54 2022
    On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:56:08 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:35:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's >> >> >> rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation. >> >> >> Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn >> >> >> the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching >> >Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    What size did that arbor nut turn out to be?


    I think a 23 mm wrench would have worked the best.

    A 7/8" wrench was too small, a 15/16" was a little sloppy, but
    with slow, steady pressure I got it to break free. They were
    trying to get it off with a cheap 8" crescent. No way.

    The nut was buggered up a bit, but I don't think it was so
    bad that that was what prevented the 7/8" from going on.

    https://imgur.com/8LEUOtN

    Then I turned the saw on. It sure sounds like the bearings
    are shot. I didn't use it. It would have made some of what I
    doing easier, but I got it done with a circular saw and a
    straight edge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Mar 5 23:12:21 2022
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:56:07 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/5/2022 2:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:54:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see.

    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite >>>>>>>>>>>>> useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring >>>>>>>>>>>> threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to >>>>>>>>>>>> 128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than >>>>>>>>>>>> yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than >>>>>>>>>> one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>>>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments. >>>>>>>>>
    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75" >>>>>>>>
    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come >>>>>>>> out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up >>>>>>>> gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was >>>>>>> learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is >>>>>>> not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the >>>>>>> object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not
    form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you >>>>>>> wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that >>>>>> it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I >>>>>> tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect >>>>>> it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line. >>>>
    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new >>>>> line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection >>>>> point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up
    window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    I do use lengths when not snapping to an existing point. Somewhere
    along the way something goes wacky. I'm wondering if it's not a
    conversion or rounding error.

    No, not by the program in the increment that you're referencing, 1/64".
    I don't think so. Sketchup really only rounds if your input is wonky.
    Do you work in smaller fractions that would require Sketchup to round up?

    I don't even use 64ths. I don't often use 1/8s, unless forced to.

    If your length is input or snaps to x/128 or smaller it would round up.
    But if you are drawing, intentionally, in x/32" of an inch or greater
    I don't see any rounding.

    I have never found it to be Sketchup's fault.

    Probably not but it's happened so many times that it's something
    that's repeated. It seems to always be 1/64".




    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly. >>> An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components
    so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    I don't think I can make any dimension less a 1/64th.

    Not in fractions but in decimal/engineering you can go to .00000"

    That's why I think there may be some rounding going on.


    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Puckdropper@21:1/5 to Leon on Sun Mar 6 08:42:35 2022
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:MfOdneAkZ6ebP7__nZ2dnUU7-KnNnZ2d@giganews.com:


    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to? Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the
    line.
    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the
    new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a
    connection point.

    I did that once...man that was annoying. I think it was 1.15 rather than
    1.25 and nothing was lining up.

    Absolutely!!! I try to watch for the red, blue, and green lines when drawing a line. Pink/Purplish lines mean that lines are not setting
    up in ortho mode and are possibly going in a direction that is the
    same as another non ortho line.


    I also watch for the colors when drawing the line, but use the keyboard shortcuts to help. If I know the line is going in the red direction, I
    press right to snap it to the red direction. Left is green and Blue is up/down.

    Puckdropper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Sun Mar 6 14:40:52 2022
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 16:46:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:56:08 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:35:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation. >> >> >> >> Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade.

    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >> >> >> >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has >> >> >> the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded >> >> >> by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching
    Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    What size did that arbor nut turn out to be?


    I think a 23 mm wrench would have worked the best.

    A 7/8" wrench was too small, a 15/16" was a little sloppy, but
    with slow, steady pressure I got it to break free. They were
    trying to get it off with a cheap 8" crescent. No way.

    7/8" is 22.23 mm, and 15/16" is 23.81 mm.

    A US 7/8" wrench opening range is 0.880 to 0.888 inches.

    A US 15/16" wrench opening range is 0.944 to 0,953 inches.

    There is no standard 23 mm wrench, only 22 mm and 24 mm. But 29/32"
    is almost exactly 23 mm. There were such things as 29/32" wrenches in
    the old days (before WW2?), but no longer.

    The 15/16" wrench you used, is it 12-point or 6-point, or open-end? A
    6-point wrench is standard for corroded and/or battered nuts.

    What is the diameter of the arbor shaft that holds the saw blade.
    Likely 5/8", as this is standard for circular saw arbors from 6" to
    8.5" in diameter. In this case, the standard nut is 15/16" across
    flats.


    The nut was buggered up a bit, but I don't think it was so
    bad that that was what prevented the 7/8" from going on.

    <https://imgur.com/8LEUOtN>

    Agree. Nicely rounded.


    Then I turned the saw on. It sure sounds like the bearings
    are shot. I didn't use it. It would have made some of what I
    doing easier, but I got it done with a circular saw and a
    straight edge.

    Well, I inherited an old Delta franken-saw from my father, and while
    it worked OK, it did very much need new bearings. Which it eventually
    got.

    I did have to make a special wrench to unscrew the bearing retaining
    spanner nut, which was recessed into the cavity holding the bearings.
    Making the tool required metalworking tools, a lathe and a mill.
    Nothing else would work.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sun Mar 6 14:31:48 2022
    On 3/5/2022 10:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:56:07 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/5/2022 2:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:54:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm >>>>>>>>>> good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments. >>>>>>>>>>
    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75" >>>>>>>>>
    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come >>>>>>>>> out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was >>>>>>>> learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is >>>>>>>> not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the >>>>>>>> object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not >>>>>>>> form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the
    dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you >>>>>>>> wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that >>>>>>> it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I >>>>>>> tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect >>>>>>> it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the
    point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line. >>>>>
    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection >>>>>> point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up
    window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    I do use lengths when not snapping to an existing point. Somewhere
    along the way something goes wacky. I'm wondering if it's not a
    conversion or rounding error.

    No, not by the program in the increment that you're referencing, 1/64".
    I don't think so. Sketchup really only rounds if your input is wonky.
    Do you work in smaller fractions that would require Sketchup to round up?

    I don't even use 64ths. I don't often use 1/8s, unless forced to.

    If your length is input or snaps to x/128 or smaller it would round up.
    But if you are drawing, intentionally, in x/32" of an inch or greater
    I don't see any rounding.

    I have never found it to be Sketchup's fault.

    Probably not but it's happened so many times that it's something
    that's repeated. It seems to always be 1/64".




    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly. >>>> An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components >>>> so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    I don't think I can make any dimension less a 1/64th.

    Not in fractions but in decimal/engineering you can go to .00000"

    That's why I think there may be some rounding going on.


    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.


    If your inputs are correct and your lines are snapping to where they
    should be attaching, there should be no rounding at all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Puckdropper on Sun Mar 6 14:38:01 2022
    On 3/6/2022 2:42 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
    Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:MfOdneAkZ6ebP7__nZ2dnUU7-KnNnZ2d@giganews.com:


    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to? Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the
    line.
    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the
    new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a
    connection point.

    I did that once...man that was annoying. I think it was 1.15 rather than 1.25 and nothing was lining up.

    Absolutely!!! I try to watch for the red, blue, and green lines when
    drawing a line. Pink/Purplish lines mean that lines are not setting
    up in ortho mode and are possibly going in a direction that is the
    same as another non ortho line.


    I also watch for the colors when drawing the line, but use the keyboard shortcuts to help. If I know the line is going in the red direction, I
    press right to snap it to the red direction. Left is green and Blue is up/down.

    Puckdropper




    I normally do not use the arrow keys to lock and I had forgotten that
    you just have to type the arrow key and let go. I usually use the arrow
    keys if I am drawing a line close to another and don't want it to snap
    to that line.

    But good to know that is is easy to do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Mar 6 15:11:01 2022
    On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 2:41:03 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 16:46:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:56:08 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:35:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade. >> >> >> >
    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS, >> >> >> >specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has >> >> >> the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded >> >> >> by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching
    Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    What size did that arbor nut turn out to be?


    I think a 23 mm wrench would have worked the best.

    A 7/8" wrench was too small, a 15/16" was a little sloppy, but
    with slow, steady pressure I got it to break free. They were
    trying to get it off with a cheap 8" crescent. No way.
    7/8" is 22.23 mm, and 15/16" is 23.81 mm.

    A US 7/8" wrench opening range is 0.880 to 0.888 inches.

    A US 15/16" wrench opening range is 0.944 to 0,953 inches.

    There is no standard 23 mm wrench, only 22 mm and 24 mm. But 29/32"
    is almost exactly 23 mm. There were such things as 29/32" wrenches in
    the old days (before WW2?), but no longer.

    Then what are all these? There's some unrelated items mixed in, but lots
    of 23 mm, singles and in sets.

    https://www.amazon.com/23mm-wrench/s?k=23mm+wrench


    The 15/16" wrench you used, is it 12-point or 6-point, or open-end? A
    6-point wrench is standard for corroded and/or battered nuts.

    12 point and open end. The 12 point worried me, but it actually
    felt better wobble wise, so I used it and it worked.


    What is the diameter of the arbor shaft that holds the saw blade.
    Likely 5/8", as this is standard for circular saw arbors from 6" to
    8.5" in diameter. In this case, the standard nut is 15/16" across
    flats.

    Don't know, don't care. Not my saw. ;-)

    The nut was buggered up a bit, but I don't think it was so
    bad that that was what prevented the 7/8" from going on.

    <https://imgur.com/8LEUOtN>
    Agree. Nicely rounded.
    Then I turned the saw on. It sure sounds like the bearings
    are shot. I didn't use it. It would have made some of what I
    doing easier, but I got it done with a circular saw and a
    straight edge.
    Well, I inherited an old Delta franken-saw from my father, and while
    it worked OK, it did very much need new bearings. Which it eventually
    got.

    I did have to make a special wrench to unscrew the bearing retaining
    spanner nut, which was recessed into the cavity holding the bearings.
    Making the tool required metalworking tools, a lathe and a mill.
    Nothing else would work.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Sun Mar 6 18:51:21 2022
    On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 15:11:01 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 2:41:03 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 16:46:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 6:56:08 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:35:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 3:53:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:28:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 09:23:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:28:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:57:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/23/2022 7:34 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    Is it safe to assume that a TS made in Taiwan (Pro-Tech) will have
    a metric arbor nut?

    I want to change the blade, but the TS is 180 miles away. (I'm heading
    there tomorrow.) The person who has it (borrowed it) can't get the nut
    off with a crescent wrench. The best she could tell me is that the crescent
    wrench is opened to about 15/16", so it might be 23 - 24 mm-ish.

    I've SAE much bigger than that, but metric only up to 19 mm. I may have
    to buy a set.

    From Harbor Freight, of course. ;-)
    Assuming that where you are going is near a hardware store, buy a wrench
    at that location.

    Past that, what brand? Can you google a parts schematic of the parts
    and wrenches of that particular model?

    The brand is in the first line of my post ;-)

    Pro-Tech. I don't know the model number, but I (and she) weren't able to find
    a manual for any Pro-Tech table saw. The closest we found was other people
    looking for a manual.

    As I mentioned in a couple of other responses, I'll know more tonight when I
    put my eyes on the saw.
    The nut ALWAYS tightens in the opposite direction of the saw blade's
    rotation. In other words, it loosens in the direction of rotation.
    Block the blade with a bar in the gullet of the blade tooth and turn
    the nut in the direction that would cause the blade to attempt to cut
    the bar

    I assume that info is just for general knowledge for anyone lurking in the wRec.

    Those of us that have been around and using table saws, miter saws, circular
    saws, etc. for decades are familiar with how to change the blade. >> >> >> >> >
    The question was about the size of the arbor nut in a Taiwanese TS,
    specifically a Pro-Tech.
    These saws were sold by Sears, at least for a while. Sears often has
    the documentation, even on old stuff, even if the say is not branded
    by Sears.

    Joe Gwinn

    Thanks.

    I'd need to find a model number that works in the Sears system. Searching
    Sear Parts Direct with various forms of "Pro-Tech" returns a couple of parts
    for a treadmill.
    Vintage Machinery may also help.
    I'll be in front of the saw later this evening. Maybe the solution is as simple
    as what I have in my toolbox. I'll know soon enough.

    Bring a digital caliper. Even one from Harbor Freight. That will
    settle the issue as well.


    Joe Gwinn

    Already packed...It's one of my standard "take along" tools. ;-)

    What size did that arbor nut turn out to be?


    I think a 23 mm wrench would have worked the best.

    A 7/8" wrench was too small, a 15/16" was a little sloppy, but
    with slow, steady pressure I got it to break free. They were
    trying to get it off with a cheap 8" crescent. No way.
    7/8" is 22.23 mm, and 15/16" is 23.81 mm.

    A US 7/8" wrench opening range is 0.880 to 0.888 inches.

    A US 15/16" wrench opening range is 0.944 to 0,953 inches.

    There is no standard 23 mm wrench, only 22 mm and 24 mm. But 29/32"
    is almost exactly 23 mm. There were such things as 29/32" wrenches in
    the old days (before WW2?), but no longer.

    Then what are all these? There's some unrelated items mixed in, but lots
    of 23 mm, singles and in sets.

    https://www.amazon.com/23mm-wrench/s?k=23mm+wrench

    Hmm. It isn't a standard size in the US, as listed in Machinery's
    Handbook. An older book, so I'll look in more recent versions.


    The 15/16" wrench you used, is it 12-point or 6-point, or open-end? A
    6-point wrench is standard for corroded and/or battered nuts.

    12 point and open end. The 12 point worried me, but it actually
    felt better wobble wise, so I used it and it worked.


    What is the diameter of the arbor shaft that holds the saw blade.
    Likely 5/8", as this is standard for circular saw arbors from 6" to
    8.5" in diameter. In this case, the standard nut is 15/16" across
    flats.

    Don't know, don't care. Not my saw. ;-)

    Right.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Sun Mar 6 19:38:16 2022
    On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 14:31:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/5/2022 10:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:56:07 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/5/2022 2:52 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 10:54:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/4/2022 9:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:34:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 5:22 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:36:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 3/4/2022 12:37 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:02:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 7:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 16:33:25 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:36:44 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 2:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:25:12 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/2/2022 10:05 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 09:47:19 -0500, Jack <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 2/26/2022 3:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    ... I can't keep batteries in HF
    calipers (or Wixey widgets for that matter). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Dial calipers, even Harbor Freight, don't have that problem but
    haven't found dial Wixey gauges. ;-)

    Try this one:
    <https://www.harborfreight.com/dial-gauge-angle-finder-34214.html>
    Both my digital calipers and my Wixey gauge need the battery removed
    between uses or they go dead. I rarely use the Wixey, but to my
    surprise, I use the digital calipers in my woodshop far more than I
    thought I would.

    The rather cheap digital calipers has two major problems. One is the
    batteries go dead and the other is the battery cover falls off. A minor
    issue is it measures to the thousands which I almost NEVER need in my
    shop.

    Recently, I bought a dial caliper that has no batteries and is easy to
    read, measures to the 64th but super easy to read. No longer do I have
    to fool with 7/128 of an inch, nor worry about batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Best thing I bought in a while for the shop. I think it was around $30
    on Ebay.


    These ones are as accurate as my old eyesight is to read them ...

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/52906-imperial-metric-vernier-caliper?item=99W2003

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/calipers/72518-longlife-pocket-caliper?item=24N0655

    Most any measuring tool is accurate enough for a wood shop. The dial
    calipers are accurate, but super duper easy for old eyes to read. The
    dials are designed like a machinist would use but the increments are
    what wood workers use. Ideal combination. More money than the plastic
    ones you list, but better for the old eyes to see. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I disagree but I get your point. Setting up tools takes a lot more
    accuracy/resolution than a rule can give. 1/64" out on a miter slot is
    going to get noticed. Measuring threads is going to take more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    For either of these there is a better way but it takes a lot better
    than what a rule can do.

    As pointed out, inside/outside/depth, in any combination is quite
    useful and something that doesn't come with a rule. A rule is useless
    for setting dado width, at least in one pass, for example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    99.99% of the time a rule works fine in a wood shop. For measuring
    threads, a thread gauge is the correct tool, and to measure say >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bolt/screw diameter 1/64" is plenty accurate, particularly since my
    drill bits to drill the holes are in 1/64 increments, measuring to
    128ths in not useful.

    When I bought the Wixey angle gauge, I tested every one of my tools with
    tilt tables and they ALL were withing the accuracy limits of the Wixey gauge
    (+/- 0.1 degrees.) I always set them with my 70 some year old >>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination-square so that surprised me.

    At any rate, the dial calipers I recently bought were cheaper than
    yours, but likely also cheaper in build quality but it works great. I
    doubt I'll use my digital battery powered calipers much, if ever. I
    don't need the accuracy or the aggravation.
    I like my digital caliper that reads out fractional inches. (as well
    as decimal inch and metric)

    I'm rarely if ever working in two systems at once. Having more than
    one dial caliper in the drawer is far less aggravation than picking up
    a caliper with dead batteries.

    I *never* use decimal inches.


    I find it much faster to draw in Sketchup using Decimal inches. I'm
    good for most any resolution that I draw to, .125" increments. >>>>>>>>>>>
    And when plaining I can visualize decimal increments over something like
    49/64" Do I need to stop or take off more if headed to 3/4"/.75" >>>>>>>>>>
    I find that conversion much harder, particularly if it doesn't come >>>>>>>>>> out exact. I don't know how it happens but once in a while, Sketch up
    gets slightly (1/64, typically) off.

    I remember that issue coming up every once in a while when I was >>>>>>>>> learning. It most often happened when I dimension something that is >>>>>>>>> not closed in to make a flat surface. IE. The last line to close the
    object looks close enough but does not. If the surface did not >>>>>>>>> form/darken it was probably not drawn as expected. And the >>>>>>>>> dimensioning measures the line that looked like it was the length you >>>>>>>>> wanted.

    Does that attach it to another object? Using gravity guarantees that >>>>>>>> it's attached (but perhaps not where you think it is, I guess). I >>>>>>>> tend to spin the objects around to make sure everything is as I expect >>>>>>>> it to be.

    Gravity? Are you referring to snap-to?

    Yes, I was thinking about the circuit CAD I used at work. It was
    called "gravity" because it tended to pull the "cursor" toward the >>>>>> point, effectively like snap-to but it had a different "snap" (to
    grid).

    Yes on small details the snap
    points can be either end or mid point, and lengthen or shorten the line.

    I got that.

    AND often a type-o can draw a line a certain distance and then the new
    line to connect to it makes the object NON Square to reach a connection >>>>>>> point.

    OK but how does this solve the 1/64" off problem?

    The simple answer is draw more accurately. ;~)
    It is an accuracy drawing problem. I was always at fault.
    I use a plug-in for Sketchup that I have a short cut key to use. I
    select a line and or object and invoke the short cut key and a pop up >>>>> window gives me dimensions of that selection so that I can verify.

    I do use lengths when not snapping to an existing point. Somewhere
    along the way something goes wacky. I'm wondering if it's not a
    conversion or rounding error.

    No, not by the program in the increment that you're referencing, 1/64".
    I don't think so. Sketchup really only rounds if your input is wonky.
    Do you work in smaller fractions that would require Sketchup to round up? >>
    I don't even use 64ths. I don't often use 1/8s, unless forced to.

    If your length is input or snaps to x/128 or smaller it would round up.
    But if you are drawing, intentionally, in x/32" of an inch or greater
    I don't see any rounding.

    I have never found it to be Sketchup's fault.

    Probably not but it's happened so many times that it's something
    that's repeated. It seems to always be 1/64".




    Also if I do something wrong I begin to see stuff not working correctly. >>>>> An error multiplies. This is an important reason to make components >>>>> so that correcting an issue does not involve the whole drawing.

    I have found Sketchup to be dead on accurate once I determined that
    small discrepancies were my errors.

    I don't think I can make any dimension less a 1/64th.

    Not in fractions but in decimal/engineering you can go to .00000"

    That's why I think there may be some rounding going on.


    The plug-in mentioned above is what I often use to quickly find the problem.


    If your inputs are correct and your lines are snapping to where they
    should be attaching, there should be no rounding at all.

    Should and shouldn't. The problem is that I have no idea how, or how
    to tell, what's going on. I don't find the problem for some time
    after it occurs so can't track it back to a specific cause.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)